I shall arrange this in a more consistent manner, to summarize the ideas that have been thrown around into this mix.ClockWork's Original Concept:
A merge of cyberpunk and steampunk and clockwork punk, and stick it into a faux pas victorian era... clothing styles, architectural, etc. I did mention before that I love quantum physics, so lets make it a full-out alternate reality. We can have temporary weak spots, too, that allow people to fall into things whenever they want to (gives people the chance to join in if they catch up on the idea later)
I'd like to see sentient automaton dolls/companions/etc, among other things. Someone else was talking to me about this in private, and I really like the idea. I'd even go so far as to include inspirational themes from Bicentennial Man... or, we could make it a world of automatons as the dominant "species" instead of humans... Possibly a D/s scenario (if we can keep it PG-13), but not like Terminator... Terminator has it's own place of respect with me, but I never much got into the annihilation of humankind bit of it.Clockwork's Rough Draft (So far this is the ultimate and solid facts that this World revolves around):Description:
Our location is an earth-like world (oxygen and carbon dioxide based environment), in an alternate dimension, by the name of Axiom. Unlike Earth, however, there are two major continents, one very much larger than the other, and a sparse scattering of islands around the continental margins. The rest of the world is covered in water. [If you need a visual reference, I recommend researching the various continental shifts concerning Pangaea, Rodinia, etc.]
The larger of the two continents is positioned with about a third of it cold and snowbound. The very northern parts of it are quite close to the north pole and theoretically inhospitable. The smaller continent will have about an eighth of its southernmost regions snowbound, but still hospitable. Both continents are large enough that they will have other, tropical/temperate regions that merge with the median zone of Axiom. There are more islands clustered in the tropical regions than elsewhere, which suggests that a continental rift occured in that area.Scenario:
In this world, humans exist, but have evolved to be quietly subservient (for the most part) to the dominant "species" of non-biological automatons. Some humans, particularly the ones intelligent enough to create masterpiece automatons, work side-by-side with their Masters. Others merely do what they are told. Rebellion has been a previously unnecessary consideration because, while some individual automatons can be cruel, the "species" does a very concise job of keeping things in order. Human conflicts are dealt with swiftly, and prevented from ever reaching a larger scale. The automatons do not cause or support conflict of their own, either.
In this world, it is possible to manipulate human energy, electricity, and the elements. It is not possible to manipulate these things without (usually significant) consequence. However, it is still widely practiced and utilized.
Modern day, in Axiom, is quite a bit like walking back into our Victorian era. Architecture and clothing especially mirror the styles that one would have seen then. Men, for example, are not concerned with dressing to flaunt a "feminine" aspect (especially the higher class, because humans have maintained a caste system within their servitude, as well as a sub-government to the automatons' control). Unlike our Victorian era, however, women bear their own, independent identities. Neither are they spared from labor, if their position in both human and automaton caste systems is so deemed. Higher class women are often seen dressed quite like the men (breeches and stockings, i.e.). Many also wear dresses, though, especially to formal occasions as a manner of enhancing their figures in a subtler, enticing fashion.Background:
The history of this scenario began with a group of gifted scientists who wanted to create a set of sentient assistants. They succeeded, and even surpassed their own expectations. However, those assistants later became unhappy with their scientist masters, and wished to improve upon the concept behind their creation. When they encountered particular difficulty in recreating the sentience they were gifted with, they employed the scientists behind their invention to aid them. Working together, they were produced the next "generation", which were built to repair the flaws the first automatons perceived in themselves. As the years passed, they never learned how to humanize their selves. They decided, however, that the cooperation with, and employment of, the human species was a much preferrable medium to their predicament.Certain Facts that have been mentioned to solidify ClockWork's World (These are Specifics facts that Clockwork has mentioned. Should anything have already been changed, please do correct me):
- Automatons, given sentience, are far from "perfect" in the emotional stability regard. Reference to a quote from the Draft itself "while some individual automatons can be cruel,"
- Automatons are going to be very logical. But it is equally pliable for logic and chaos to coexist in a single form, even if that form is non-biological. At least, in hypothesis. There is further pliability in tainted logic, too, whether being reflected from a creator's unstable mind, or just being a natural progression in a "failed" creation.
- A human is more likely to be illogical with their actions, reactions and corruptions. Which is a necessary counterbalance to the logic of a non-biological sentience.
- At this point, however, all automatons would be hardset on squelching conflicts as soon as they become large enough to garner notice and consequence.
- One thing I have noticed however - even though I'm allowing a mix of cyberpunk, it has to be a mix. There are no cities that are just Cyberpunk, or just Clockwork Punk, or just Steampunk. The entire world is a mixture thereof, but set in Victorian-style development, not modern - which also limits just how far the cyberpunk can spread it's influence.
- Automatons controlling, and employing or using the humans in a D/s lifestyle fashion. The first ones that were created then emancipated themselves and created others. Upon creating the others, they discovered that they were lacking the manipulation techniques that allowed them to imbue sentience, which made it so they couldn't determine if their perceived improvements were successful or not. So they go back and they employ their original masters to help them create improved automatons with sentience. Sentience allows an automaton to have a range of logical emotions. There are different types of sentience, usually based on the person that channels the sentience into the automaton. This also allows for a sort of personality-reflection to take place, which then allows for some automatons to be decent masters and others to be cruel.
- While I can appreciate cat girls and other cute anime-related tweaks on humans/androids, that's not an aspect that I see as fitting here. There's already enough included with the whole automaton/human interaction, I think, without over-complicating it with additional, animalistic features.
- Some humans are almost on a neutral par, too. The more of a gift they have with automaton research and/or energy manipulation, the more respect and consideration that they are likely to receive. Also, if you really want to reverse the D/s scenario, I could allow outlying areas (it's a very large continent after all) where people are creating personal automatons (like those scientists did with their first assistants), and both are unaware of the hierarchy in the major areas of civilization (which are still more like really expansive, Victorian-architecture-style towns).
- The cyberpunk aspects that I am allowing into this RP are when humans want to become something in between human and automaton. By default, they are still human, and they still have human behaviors, personality, full-range emotions. They have learned how to replace certain dysfunctional parts of themselves (bone, certain organs, etc.) In theory, the brain could be replaced, but then the human that previously owned that body is dead. The character would be an automaton, and would have to follow all of the automaton rules and limitations. If it justifiable to artificially support human skin and muscle cells, then you can keep those. I am not sure how you would deal with the eventual breakdown of cells, due to aging and oxygen (the same thing which supports human cells also destroys them over time). But there will be no eating, drinking, digestion (bathroom), or other standard body functions, if you choose this route. Your emotions, reactions, etc. will be based upon what manipulation was used to reanimate you, and will be limited to an array of logic under that umbrella. Please note that characters that start out as automatons are will always be automatons and will not be mistaken as human.
- Automatons, here, do not feel the need to assimilate with humans because they are the dominant "species." Neither do they feel worry, which is essentially illogical in foundation. They need the humans, though, because of their manipulative abilities as well as their ability to think and process things more fully (on a range of logic and chaos).
- No, we aren't going to make zombies, so don't even think about it, Laz. >.>; (My response to this: Hey now...>.> that's a really good idea. Kidding just kidding! )
- There are no android shells. There are no perfect merges of human and automaton. There are no automatons that appear human and have artificial tissue. Period.
- I may have mentioned see-through parts (maybe when I was discussing what I thought the exo-skeleton was), but I haven't figure out what that material would be, on Axiom. Axiom, while earth-like, will not have the concept of crude oil applicable, which also cancels out plastic, latex, etc. I want the automatons to be constructed, for the most part, out of a metal that can be harvested by mining. The inclusion of scientifically-produced alloys is acceptable, but I would require that they be based on metallic sources.
- I take part of that back. If Axiom has something akin to rubber trees, we could make latex work. Plastic, on the other hand, is directly related to crude oil (to my best knowledge).
- It is possible to make a human into an automaton, by the established rules. Because I am having difficulties imagining how energy manipulation could be applied to the soul (the essence of personality housed in one's brain), I do not see how it is possible to imbue an automaton with a human psyche. Automatons are, quite specifically, lacking of that aspect of humanization. If an automaton could be given a human psyche, that would give them the ability to manipulate energies their selves, and it would negate the need for humans.
- I've stated, a few times now, that an automaton is unable to appear human. It can have metallic plates shaped to approximate a humanoid form. But it will never be mistaken as a human on its exterior. Humans have organic tissue, which is pliable and stretchy. They have bones, which move together with natural lubrication (I forget what it's called) and tendons (which are another thing that automatons have been unable to replicate). A human-like range of motion merely provides the ability to walk and move smoothly, run, and so on. This is justifiable through ball-joints and other metallic parts.
- Automatons, as they are, do not have skin. They have metal plating; sometimes thin, sometimes thick.
- I think automatons could assist human teachers in more of the sciences. Assist, though, not take over or have intentions of doing so. And a teacher could be an exalted position in this society, for humans, because of that specific limitation on the automatons' parts
- Go with it... Zippa (makes me think of Frank Zappa). One mineable metal's ID down.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________Now for the Idea's that have been tossed around so far (These Ideas have been taken from page 1 to pages further beyond, so if you find a suggestion listed here to have already been scrapped or approved, it will just be for archive sakes):
I hope some form of nobility is good, though (or upper class, or what have you). It's hard to be dashing in rags. 2.) Xunzar:
Magic is, I gather for our purposes, a function of the risk. The more risk in its use the more powerful it is, yes? But I had more been wondering what kind of scale we were talking, like what kind of risk for what kind of result. *smiles* Either way, it's still going to be interesting.3.) Clockwork
(an Idea which I believe hasnt been implemented yet about the conflicts surrounding this world): Perhaps. :) Or it could come about to a matter of enough humans being unhappy with their lot that they try to form a subtle rebellion of some sort. The trick is to keep it subtle enough that it doesn't trigger responses from the automatons to stop it before it has a chance to make an impact? I'd need a strategy mastermind to pull that idea off. While I love strategy, I'm typically too scattered to create an effective, executable plan of that scale.4.) Kuje:
As for the plot, there could be a third faction that could be neutral, they could both have human and automatons. As for what they want, it's cliche, but they could be trying to revolt against the current leaders.5.) Kuje:
I usually find that games where our chars all know each other tend to be more fun instead of spending time getting all the characters together.6.) Laz:
A Prologue scene can summarize those events.7.) Clockwork:
I am also debating having the idea included that the monks on the other continent are capable of manipulating souls, to exemplify their additional skill and expertise with the concept. However, since they are secluded from the rest of the goings on of the world (barring the necessity of trade), there's going to have to be some serious story buildup to the eventual possibility of manipulating a soul into an automaton form. And then, of course, there is the fact that automatons do not appear human.8.) Clockwork:
I'm pretty sure I covered any "issues" I had a bit earlier in the topic. I know I mentioned something about needing to be integrated with the automatons to have a high-class position established. You could mull on those possibilities and toss some back at me when you have the time.9.) Xunzar:
Markus is somewhat integrated with the robots because he is involved with the trading of iron, carbon and perhaps brass (or is that an alloy too?) and so on. In other words, the things used to make the robots. Essentially he trades in currency (iron and carbon, the key parts of steel).10.) Xunzar:
I'm not really sure, unless humans learn differently in Axiom, I can't see how you can alter the way you teach them too much. Perhaps you'd like some giant brass learning engine that pumps knowledge directly into the brains of the students?11.) Xunzar:
ell, the robots need the human teachers to deal with anything that isn't strictly factual. Essentially, they use humans to teach things like history, several of the sciences (such as the more obscure parts of physics), much of the complex economics and all the psychology. The robots are only able to teach math and chemistry with any real success because those require no intuition or creativity to understand fully. The robots have to work with the human teachers to explain the reasons that robots are superior, since the robots are able to articulate it logically, but that isn't enough for a human brain to assimilate the knowledge in question. It requires someone able to think like a human to shape the information in ways that a human being can absorb. As for wealth, it is essentially the same as on earth. After all, the robots have no real need for most luxuries, they have the power, but not much wealth since they don't need it. Taxes fund the robots' needs for creating new things since wealth is based on the elements used to construct new robots and machines. The saying "worth its weight in Ferricite" is literal.12.) Laz:
oh and Brass consists of Copper and Zinc, to make a new name for it just combine both. Zipper lol. I'll pay you two Zippers for one slave.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________Aiko's Concept Debate (Since we have quite a sizzling discussion on what Aiko's character will be I decided to places her Ideas in a seperate category):- Aiko:
I could play a human type that got gene spliced as an expirement (genetically enhanced too) So I get to do the whole cat girl (ears and tail) only idea and or could do a bio-android type. - Aiko:
The andorid idea could be something kuje made since they are trying to make more realistic looking androids so I could be an expirement that way as being one of the first human looking ones that is a bio so she could get pregnant and such things and such.. Sorta like from the anime (Artimage), another idea for the android is that I play a dieing human girl from some disease/sickness and someone that works on androids (Kuje even) or whatever, could make her into an android too. Human is just as I said an expirement, a genetically enhanced human that was made to help fight for human rights and such things. This way I can play a naive girl thats innocent and such, and can sorta be doll like with either ideas. She could just end up being a possession sorta like a trophy so someone would have to own her, even if she is human due to the expirement going wrong it messed with her mind so she lost alot of her memories and such.. As the android then what could be more fun is that people could buy programs for her that can give her skills and abilities, and can also give her personalities and personality traits so she can be customizable. Even if she was human to start and placed in an android someone could make her act a certain way then with programming lol it could be alot of fun! I am not sure if this all could work and what is a better idea than another. Personally I would like human to real looking human android or rather humaniod looking cause then these humaniod looking android could have animal ears tails, faeries, elves, etc.. so this way people don't freak out with the new idea of androids looking TOO human and can still tell the difference so no wars break out over it.- Aiko:
he Automation/doll/android could come from a far away city that is cyberpunk and was sent to this area where the automations/androids/dolls whatever you want to call them are not like her so she could be saught after by alot as its really hard to get to the city where my char was from. Kuje or Xun could litterly find her broken down as junk or something and find out that she was a human transfered into an android UNLESS got another.. Kuje or Xun could of found her android body I am going to call them dolls since they are so humaniod looking. And it could of been in the trash area of this place that came from the big cyber punk city that dumps its trash in this area or close to it and you guys find it and found away to help a girl that was real sick and dieing and put her in it- Aiko:
well lets see how old would you all want her to be. I was thinking of 16 if you want me to ever do adult stuff.. Other wise I could see it being a bit younger in the sense that she has limitations anyway due to her android shell wouldn't really allow sex since the time line would not allow bio-androids to exist. She would just look humaniod, she could eat and drink, go to the bathroom but thats about it. She could taste it but it really wouldn't do anything for her at all. Its just eatting for the raw joy of it and she was programmed to be more human like in that sense. Hard code not programming. She would need to be charged and thats sorta what she would call sleep time. So she would be put to bed then and plugged in. This way I already get the she is humaniod and no others are like that.- Clockwork:
Maybe in a traditional cyberpunk setting, this would apply. But if she eats and drinks and has a digestive system, then she has to have blood flow and a heart and a brain (to control body functions). Even if you want to include the possibility of certain major organs being artificially enhanced/replaced, she's still human as long as those aspects are included. Automatons are automatons because they function without sustenance, except to have their gears, pistons, etc. oiled and maintained, do not age, and do not have any actual human organs or parts.- Aiko:
The eatting and drinking is not a digestive thing at all. It is something that would just make her more humaniod and it would basicly just be for show and thats it. I have no problems with not aging that is sorta the point of what I was wanting. And since you said it was simuliar to bicotenuial man (I can't spell that) I thought she would look more humaniod with soo many limitations since its a mix she would not be like him and age and everything. No... However.. Thats fine if I can't have cat ears, and tail, or be able to eat. Thats just fluff and just an RP thing so I can take it out. All I want is this, A Human sick girl thats dieing, and they find a broken down advanced shell of an android body that will allow her to look like a human physically not internally. That is young looking. So she gets transfered into the body so she is human in mind and mature in mind but her body isn't. And that they could add in programs for effect and D/s stuff.. I don't even have to have added in programming cause she would have a set programming and such but with her mind already could make for some fun moments.- Aiko:
I explained how she was dieing, She had an uncurable disease and her essence/mind got transfered into an android shell... So she is actually a full automation that looks human, she could have some minor differences but really if I can't do this then all my ideas I gave you earlier that was ok just flew out the window and then if thats case I can't do this idea and I am not too interested then cause I am not too fond of steam punk and hoped I could have a character I REALLY liked and REALLY wanted cause I tried to meet you about 75% of the way. I hope this is understandable. I just wanted something fun to play, and when I heard about your automations and such I was excited but you apparently changed everything when you got PM's and I have NO idea what happened to the story so I can't change things accordingly so I thought of something I could do that would work with everyone else's idea and put my character in with them this way cause she was just a normal everyday girl with no real skills and stuff so other wise she would never meet the other characters or have a reason to be with them.. Understand what I am saying here? If you want me to explain more detail about my character I will write up a big clear bio and everything and you can see that way but... IF I can not do the idea of having a human be transfered into a Humanish looking android/automation/doll then I don't see the point in writing this huge background, description, and such all for nothing and if the whole idea got soo drasticly changed.- Aiko:
Are you telling me that automations body breaks down to cells or are they more robots? Because my idea states and I state I do not mind having to deal with automation limitations esle I wouldn't want to do this idea... All I am asking for the automation (MY NEW Automation Shell) Looks human like (Cute and pretty) With hair and could feel clothing that she wears. I want her not to age and not die due to growing old. Thats all I am really going for here. Its not complicated. I am really not asking alot I think anyway. The only thing I want from the cyberpunk is this... this android body doesn't die from old age, but can be killed by breaking her. And that she looks human like, I could careless if her skin is replicated and fake, I don't want that much realizium. I hope this is clearing up more. Cause I can do this idea now with how you explained things cause I will make those sacerfices! :)- Clockwork:
If you want to look human, you had to have been human for x amount of years prior to being experimented on. You said you wanted your character to be dying, so then take it to the next step. Play her as human up to her death (work something out with Laz, cause he's perfect for this)... and yes, I'm going to require this to play out in realtime, not as a prequel. If you are replacing the brain to create an automaton within a human's body, then you have to plan out to finite detail exactly what else needs to be replaced and what of her human body can still function by an alternative source of oxygen/nutrition/etc. Since you no longer would have a digestion system, or the need to eat/drink/etc., where are you getting those nutrients to support what of your human body remains? Laz has an idea for artificial blood that has a lot of potential (but needs some minor clarifications). Be specific and clear. Also, what artificial parts are being operated in steam and/or clockwork terms, and how does this cooperate with your human shell? You can't just say it plugs in and you go, not here. That's too much of a focus on the cyberpunk. Also, determining any characteristics by justification of a programming "chip" or otherwise is absolutely not allowed. Again, too much of a focus on the cyberpunk. And, just to be clear, if you change any part of your exterior, in part or whole, you will cease to appear human. More or less, it was too big of a challenge for the automatons to overcome, and they eventually decided that it was unnecessary to assimilate with humanity in this regard. They are a separate "species" and they have not deemed it logically necessary to change this perception. If you choose to appear human, then you are choosing to (artificially) support actual human tissue in some regard... probably at least skin and muscle. That means that you will still have to deal with breakdown due to age and exposure to sources of oxygen. As mentioned before, the same thing that nourishes us also kills us over time. That will be an issue that you have to bear in mind at all times if you wish to establish this merge between human and automaton.- Aiko:
I don't want to be a cyborg. I don't want to be human, I want the girl to be trasnfered into an automation period. Your last post said I could do that... Now I am confused again.. Please just tell me if I can be a girl transfered into a young girl sized automation body. I am really confused again please.... Can I do this idea? You asked me if I would settle for their limitations as the automations and I said yes... So whats going on with this now?- Johnny5:
What if your character had an automaton "doll" that she loved, maybe with a porcelin doll kinda look, on her death the "doll" just couldn't accept it, taking on her personality and mannerisms as best she could. Does something like that sound like it could work?- Xunzar:
I have no idea quite how to solve the character issues with Aiko, but it can probably be done. Markus would certainly have been willing to fund the research involved, if only out of sheer curiosity (something that the robots need from humans). *shrug*- Aiko:
She could look like a real doll compared to human looking. Sorta like a china doll or plastic aka fake looking and too flawless in that aspect to be human at all? So this way now she is no longer human looking period.. Another idea on how to transfer her into the doll... Is simple... This is taken out of Bubble Gum Crisis type (its not as advanced as cyberpunk) They download her brain into the doll but its just infomation so there is no transfer of soul so my character dies and its just a copy of her brain, memories, and personality. So really the doll is not her now but its a copy of her. How much can go there is up to who ever could do the transfer... All its doing now is making a program of my mine and updating the doll's central programing.. So my character dies off and I play the doll then.. I just want her to be able to be pretty be it extremely doll like or not. I don't have to do humaniod as long as she doesn't look like a walking peice of metal.. Now then this way this changes the whole thing of what I wanted. I limited it by about 90% of what I wanted.
As long as A. I get to playing dieing human
B. Play a doll after death
C. That its pretty even if it does not mean she looks human anymore of a concept.
Is that way better? I am going off more of a base of what johnny is saying, and what you said clockworkshadow of transfering her into the shell.. Well its no longer transfering.. Its just turning her memories and such into raw computer code basicly, well automation code and putting it in as an update like updating windows 7 as an example. Now her brain is just like a text document that be copy and pasted into anything.. So there is no soul transfering or even remvoing the brain nothing.. The doll is not the real character anymore but she could think she is? and can act accordingly. I can't see why that would not work. cause everything you had a problem with is done.. The only thing thing that may be a problem is how to get the automation to look less as a plate face with slits for eyes and mouth.. Thats the only issuse I have here.. Couldn't my char be some kind of an exception and look more fake? like an actual doll (Of Any type)? Living dolls should be more possible. than a humaniond android? Just as like a 1 time thing? Let me know what you think about this idea. Hope this is better.- Clockwork:
There's only one very remote way to make this even slightly work in the transferable sense. And that's to somehow incorporate the monks' advanced abilities with quantum physics and energy manipulation. That, however, is a concept that still needs a lot of tweaking, and is something that I'm still working with Johnny on, 1:1. The thing is... automatons are on one continent, and control it. Monks are on the other, and (subtly) control that. What we are talking about here is something that might occur well into the storyline, if those two separate "worlds" intermingle. Dolls are typically made out of porcelain. If we created a type of porcelain in Axiom (which is feasible, since it's created from clay), then it would be porcelain plating fastened to metal. Porcelain is known to break very easily, however. That would limit your functions and mobility.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Since pages 11-12 is mostly about Aiko, i'll leave the archives from page 1-10.On a personal note: I'm tired and my eyes have been criss crossed way too much for reading everything and reanalyzing alot of information. Hope this helps to summarize most of the discussion. if anyone needs me, I'll be in the Spa deflating my head.