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Author Topic: Study dealing with homophobia  (Read 3006 times)

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Offline Fae BrinTopic starter

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Study dealing with homophobia
« on: June 17, 2011, 10:43:32 PM »
I stumbled upon this five minutes ago-- I've vaguely heard this before, but-- this is an actual study done. I thought it was interesting. It's not extensive, but clear nonetheless about the study's findings.

I wasn't entirely sure where I should put this, I can move it if someone thinks it should be somewhere else.

The title of the study was "Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?"

Abstract of the study

Offline Trieste

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 03:12:44 PM »
Abstracts are often a very poor way to judge a study, let alone discuss it. Since the Journal of Abnormal Psychology has not chosen to make this study available widely online, I'm not sure I'm comfortable posting it in its entirety (I have access to it through my university) but I will say this: I'm not sure that 64 men is a good sample size, and this study appears to have only used Cacasians. The apparatus that measures penile circumference was donned by the subject and the experimenters never verified (according to the procedure in the article) whether the apparatus was applied correctly, or if the person was even wearing it at the time they were showed the videos.

It's 15-year-old pop science meant to grab headlines and controversy. Nothing more.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2011, 08:54:15 AM »
Not to mention the dubious 100% success ratio in 'proving' that the homophobes had secret homosexual urges, while 0% of the non-homophobes had them. That just screams junk science or padding the results to me, rational or otherwise.

Offline Fae BrinTopic starter

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2011, 03:41:29 PM »
Thank you both for your replies.

Now that I actually look at the abstract during the day-- I wonder if I wasn't half asleep last night when I thought it was "very interesting."

Offline Trieste

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2011, 03:49:56 PM »
Actually, I think you had the right of it in that it's very interesting. The interesting part of it, for me, lies in the fact that people feel the need to publish research like this. I mean, what is the wider significance of whether homophobia is repressed homosexual feelings or not? Are these people likely to seek therapy? Doubtful. What drives people to do this sort of research? And what was the motive? Those are interesting questions.

Offline Fae BrinTopic starter

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2011, 03:55:18 PM »
True.

That is true.

I haven't figured out yet why people care about who another person loves.

Offline Braioch

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 06:33:36 PM »
I'd be more willing to believe it true for people who bring it up constantly, with little to no provocation or context.

I.E.

"Man, this cheese is awful, I hate all these fancy cheeses"

"Yeah, like those homos dude, can't stand them, them and their fancy things, fuck them man, damn poofers"

"...relevance?"

I'm of course being of the exaggeration, (sorta >.>) but other than that, it's really not a topic one could delve into. GOod point on why do so, to what end....

-shrugs-

Offline Bayushi

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2011, 02:45:24 AM »
My major issue with "studies" like these is simple.

What defines a "homophobe"?

Lately, I have noticed that even so little as disagreeing with some of the more activist homosexuals will have you branded a homophobe. I have been branded as such, even when I myself am openly a lesbian. I simply detest the so-called "gay culture", as I feel it tends to debase and devalue the individual. I've been to some Pride parades that have nearly made me ill, seeing the things people are doing as part of floats or "attractions".

No one, regardless of race, gender, creed, or orientation; is above the law. However, some people seem to think that any legal sanctions taken against them are "the man" punishing him or her for their race/gender/creed or orientation.

So, again, what defines a "homophobe"? Is it someone who is actually FEARFUL of gay people, or is it a whackadoodle interpretation based on whose feelings were hurt?

Offline Trieste

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2011, 11:07:42 AM »
If you read the actual abstract on which this thread is commenting, you will realize that they used Hudson and Ricketts' Index of Homophobia. And then you can use the magic Google machine to find out what that means.

Offline Maxwell Malamute

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2011, 02:41:21 AM »
I work at a university library, and can access the full piece at work, and will report back.

But it is not a new idea; it dates back to Freud, possibly earlier, and I find it rings very true, despite what the nay-sayers have to say. The origin of what we dislike in others is rooted in what we dislike in ourselves, or have disliked in ourselves, and project onto others.

If gay pride parades make you ill, that's your own problem. You choose to react that way; take some Pepto-Bismal, or stay home.

Offline Brandon

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2011, 04:51:30 AM »
If gay pride parades make you ill, that's your own problem. You choose to react that way; take some Pepto-Bismal, or stay home.

Incorrect. There is no evidence to show that human beings choose to feel certain ways in certain situations, just as there is no evidence that says someone can choose their sexuality. A choice means you make a concious selection of options but that does not happen with emotions. Think about it for a moment, if you were scuba diving and saw a shark swim by would you choose to feel fear? Do you choose to feel desire or love when you kiss your boyfriend/girlfriend? Im sure the answer to both questions is no

I have to agree with Akiko, homophobe tends to be a blanket term used to anyone who disagree's with homosexuals having equal rights. I doesnt matter what their actual position is

Offline Maxwell Malamute

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2011, 07:10:12 PM »
I am correct in a certain sense, and one supported by Cognitive Psychology.

Yes, we have immediate reactions to things, sensations, strong feelings. But when we choose to dwell on them, we choose to make ourselves upset.

One of the foundations of the currently in vogue cognitive school is that it is our irrational beliefs/unhelpful beliefs are that trigger our reactions, and that by questioning these beliefs, we can change how we react, emotionally. We learn to develop newer, more helpful beliefs.

Example:

A car honks it's horn at me. My blood pressure raises, I get angry, why are people such assholes? I am upset.

Later, I think of it, and challenge the assumption or belief that people should not honk their horns.

Who says they shouldn't?
Maybe they leaned on it by accident?
Maybe they were having a bad day?
Maybe they were stressed out, and in a hurry?
Who says a relatively short burst of noise is so awful, anyway?
Did it really damage me?
Why should I let it upset me?

~

One might do exercises like this to diffuse any number of 'reactions' we have to things.

I commute between DC and Baltimore, often in horrible traffic; by using such means, I have become able to tune out the aggressiveness antics and annoyances I encounter, and am much calmer, and less reactive.

So, yes, I agree, in one sense, we do not choose how we feel, but in many other ways, we do choose how we feel, and are free and able to change this.

~

If a shark swims by me while scuba diving, yes, I will feel fear. But I would also remind myself that far fewer swimmers are attacked by sharks that we like to imagine, and not to let the fear carry me away. I might be afraid, but I could still choose to remain calm, as this would help me also maintain a rational mind-set, as opposed to one of panic, and help me in my own self preservation.

~

I agree, people do not choose to be gay, but they are conditioned to be homophobic, and then choose to stay that way, or do so out of laziness, lack of inertia, coincidence, social circumstance or whatever other reasons.

~

Finally, the assertion that all people who oppose gay rights are homophobes is crass, baseless, and obscures many the shades of grey that make up the complexity of the actual situation, even though I hear few cogent explanations as to why gay people should not have equal rights, and thus feel that homophobia does in fact play a major role.



« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 07:18:44 PM by Maxwell Malamute »

Offline Bayushi

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2011, 08:17:55 AM »
If you read the actual abstract on which this thread is commenting, you will realize that they used Hudson and Ricketts' Index of Homophobia. And then you can use the magic Google machine to find out what that means.

I'm aware of said Index. I don't agree with it, however.

I have to agree with Akiko, homophobe tends to be a blanket term used to anyone who disagree's with homosexuals having equal rights. I doesnt matter what their actual position is

Sorry, Brandon, but that isn't AT ALL what I said.

I have zero issue with homosexuals having equal rights. Cause, for one, I'm biased like that (lesbian ring a bell?).

My issue is that when one merely DISAGREES with some of the more 'militant' homosexuals, one is immediately branded a homophobe. Defending oneself from a sexual assault by a homosexual gets you branded as such (a friend had issues in his university dorm with a homosexual guy. This guy had issues with coming onto just about every man within a five mile radius whether gay or straight, and seemed to enjoy dry humping the guys' asses. After being warned to stop, the homosexual guy immediately did it again, and got his bell rung. My friend was branded a homophobe and was asked to move out of the dormitory. No punishment was meted out to the REAL assailant).

As stereotypical as the above story sounds, a stereotype exists for a reason. In general, I'm not a fan of how a lot of "homosexual crusaders" decide that it's appropriate to shove their sexuality into people's faces at every opportunity. I've had to tell a gay friend before, after yet ANOTHER gay reference, "Yes! We know! You're fucking gay! Shut up already!"

While I may have a short term memory issue, I don't need to be reminded of such things every five minutes. Also, please stop getting butthurt when I don't give two flying fucks about how gay you are. I really don't need to know, and you REALLY don't need to tell me. Everything isn't about being gay or lesbian. I can't even BEGIN to go into how much I hate hearing, "You just hate me because I'm gay!" For Fuck's Sake, I could not care less if you're gay!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 08:22:08 AM by Akiko »

Offline Noelle

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2011, 09:01:20 PM »
I have to be honest, Akiko, some of your points are kind of reminiscent of discussions about race when someone finally steps in and says "but what about white people?"

Clearly there is inappropriate behavior that comes from homosexuals (see also: the thread somewhere on here where I discussed locker room antics) and it shouldn't be accepted coming from anybody, really. If you see something inappropriate happening, such as the instance you gave of the gay man forcefully (even physically) making other people uncomfortable with unreasonable actions, then it deserves to be noted and dealt with appropriately. Nobody should be given a pass.

However (there's always a however!) let's not overblow the ratio by which inappropriate/offensive behavior happens. Homosexuals make up a disproportionately small percentage of the population (The estimates I've been able to glean from things like Gallup polls seem to have the population in the US hovering around ~10%, but it's hard to say how accurate it is, given sexuality is not an easy thing to quantify) in comparison to heterosexuals. Indeed, to use race again as a comparative subject, I'm positive there have been times that minorities of any background have treated white people unfairly, even violently. However, this is not indicative of a trend on a larger scale, which is actually a culture of disadvantage, prejudice, and oppression towards minorities while granting general favor to whites. Is it okay for white people to be treated poorly? Of course not, and I would never condone it, but to equate it to the more prevalent treatment given towards said minority overall is not entirely apt.

I agree that certain behaviors can be irritating -- the gay caricature is not exactly my favorite for the reasons you've described, but on the flip side, you have to be careful with terming it as 'shoving their sexuality into people's faces'. We live in a culture of largely heterosexual (or close to, if you want to get into fluid sexuality, etc.) people who are free to discuss their own proclivities at length with little to no interjection.

Offline consortium11

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2011, 09:44:29 PM »
Actually, I think you had the right of it in that it's very interesting. The interesting part of it, for me, lies in the fact that people feel the need to publish research like this. I mean, what is the wider significance of whether homophobia is repressed homosexual feelings or not? Are these people likely to seek therapy? Doubtful. What drives people to do this sort of research? And what was the motive? Those are interesting questions.

For those doing the research (if not this exact case but others in the field) they probably get a nice little grant from whatever body commissioned the research as well as getting their name out there for when another group wants research in that field (and probably of that type).

For whoever paid or supported it? It gives them a nice piece of research to deploy as an argument, especially as few people will be able to debunk it (an effect increased in "off-the-cuff" type debates).

It's the same across every field basically: while there are scientists doing "pure, unbiased, objective research" (as much as any person can be unbiased and objective) there are also vast numbers where there is an implicit (if not explicit) suggestion that it gives the "right" answer... and the research will be set up to give that answer. Lung cancer and the effects of smoking are a classic example in recent years... virtually all the research has been funded and/or supported by either anti-smoking health groups or tobacco companies over the last few years.

Offline vtboy

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 12:02:37 PM »
Are there really people who are paid money to apply devices that measure changes in the circumference of someone else's dick while watching porn? If so, funding source could only be a government grant. Gives a whole new meaning to the term, "stimulus package". 

Offline Oniya

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 02:24:00 PM »
Gives a whole new meaning to the term, "stimulus package".

*snickers*

Offline Pumpkin Seeds

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2011, 07:07:52 AM »
In their misguided attempt to study male arousal, certainly.  Hate to tell them though that a man's erection has little to do with his actual arousal.

Offline Darkling Muse

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 08:33:57 AM »
I'm aware of said Index. I don't agree with it, however.

My issue is that when one merely DISAGREES with some of the more 'militant' homosexuals, one is immediately branded a homophobe. Defending oneself from a sexual assault by a homosexual gets you branded as such (a friend had issues in his university dorm with a homosexual guy. This guy had issues with coming onto just about every man within a five mile radius whether gay or straight, and seemed to enjoy dry humping the guys' asses. After being warned to stop, the homosexual guy immediately did it again, and got his bell rung. My friend was branded a homophobe and was asked to move out of the dormitory. No punishment was meted out to the REAL assailant).


I find this really interesting. I was lucky enough to attend an arts university and we had a similar problem in our dorm, with a bi woman. This woman was quite a bully, she'd grab other girls by the boobs, was generally quite crude and had a tendency to try to get into other people's beds if they left their door unlocked while they slept <.<

But it was the gay women in our dorm who she picked on worse. Because she was picking on other gay women it was seen as assault... I do not know how it would have gone if she had just been picking on straight women... but I have a strange feeling that it would have been seen as sexual assault in quite the same way and I don't know why.

Is it because sexual assault on someone who *would* consent to persons of that sex normally is seen to be attempted rape? Because there would have been consent if they were a willing partner, rather than there never having been the possibility of consent?

By following that line of thought then assault on a person who wouldn't have the possibility of consent is surely closer to paedophilia since consent can never be given....

So really it does boggle the mind why this is all tangled... since assault is a terrible thing no matter what the name given to it and why the hell are we overlooking it when it involves a mix of gender?

Offline Oniya

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2011, 01:24:42 PM »
Akiko - you mention that this particular offensive person had been warned about his behavior before.  Do you know if it was ever brought up through the university's own channels as an assault (sexual or otherwise)?  Or was he just told to his face 'Hey man, cut it out!'  I'm asking because there was a similar sort of thing that happened at my college, and sometimes it takes an official wrist-slap to get through to some people.  I also know how reluctant men sometimes are to report things like this.

Offline Bayushi

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2011, 08:09:03 PM »
Darkling: Ugh. I'm so sorry you had to put up with that. I would have been quite outspoken about that, personally.

Oniya: The issue had been reported several times prior, but the university was... well... very liberal and "gay-friendly". They also had to deal with the local LGBT student groups who'd throw a tantrum if action were taken against him. "They're punishing me because I'm gay!" was a common excuse given.

It's this exactly that, this nature of double-standards; that's lead to me (as an open lesbian) to want nothing to do with the general LGBT community. I'm not saying that every member of said community is like this, but a lot of them are, and those who are tend to be the most outspoken/loudest.

Offline Oniya

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2011, 08:36:52 PM »
*nods*  I went to a single-sex college, and there was one student who had at least three incidents where she focused unwanted attention on someone, and I know one for certain ended up with a restraining order. 

Offline Darkling Muse

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 04:46:35 PM »
My university was open and very liberal also, but I think they were a little more 'advanced' in their attitudes than other places...

...It was a centre of contemporary arts so pushing boundaries was their thing, I'm guessing the notion of gender and sexual preferences was so often explored and debated among the students that it ceased to matter what labels were attached to it and instead all that really mattered was people...

...Though they still managed to get sued. An epileptic girl who had serious attacks every morning lived in the student halls. Her fits became so serious that the house warden (An older student who just kept things ticking over nicely) had to administer emergency first aid to her several  times and expressed concern that she wasn't a trained nurse, that sometimes the door was locked etc. So the university asked her to move out and get a room with her carer.... she sued them and won..

That sort of thing annoys me... using your 'minority' status to get free, degrades all the work done by brave people on your behalf to get your voice heard and hinders people with real cases. Gah!

Offline Bayushi

Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2011, 08:09:13 PM »
...Though they still managed to get sued. An epileptic girl who had serious attacks every morning lived in the student halls. Her fits became so serious that the house warden (An older student who just kept things ticking over nicely) had to administer emergency first aid to her several  times and expressed concern that she wasn't a trained nurse, that sometimes the door was locked etc. So the university asked her to move out and get a room with her carer.... she sued them and won..
That story pissed me off.

My mother suffers from epilepsy, though she rarely has seizures any longer (she used to have routine grand mal seizures) since she started taking her current medication back in the 1990s.

I'm quite sure she would be upset to hear of someone abusing their condition in such a fashion. Having a disorder of this nature does not absolve one of personal responsibility, nor does it transfer said responsibility onto the University.

Ugh!

Offline Oniya

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Re: Study dealing with homophobia
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2011, 08:32:54 PM »
I have a friend with epilepsy as well, and he would be appalled that someone would put their own life at risk (door locked, no trained nurse on hand) in that way - and then bitch about people who were concerned.