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Author Topic: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker  (Read 1491 times)

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Offline SethalaTopic starter

Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« on: June 05, 2011, 08:50:49 PM »
After seeing someone else try it on the boards, I've decided to try and come up with some form of strip/dare poker game here. 

I don't know the specifics yet, but the gist of the game will be something like this: Every player starts with an equal number of chips, and start playing as if in a normal poker tournament (likely Texas Hold'em).  The game works like normal until someone runs out of chips, at which point that player has to either lose some clothing, or do a dare.  After that happens, they get back some chips and the game continues.  A player is eliminated when they run out of chips, have no clothing to lose, and decline the dare.

Some of the specifics I'm working on involve:
  • Number of chips and the mechanics of the poker game.  Unlike regular poker, players can "run out" of chips more than once, and in fact that's the point of the game, so a low number of chips to start with seems like a good idea.  Since this means more and more chips will enter the game as it goes on, some way to either remove them or force bets to escalate is necessary.  Also, I need to figure out how many chips a player should get back when they run out and lose clothes or do a dare.
  • The exact mechanics of dares.  The game I'm basing this off of had the rules of, whoever won the pot that eliminated a player picked dares for each player, but it couldn't be a dare they already declined once (or something similar to it) unless that person agreed to the repeat dare.  Another idea is that the person gets a random dare from a pre-arranged list.  The benefit to that idea is that a player can be forced to pick to strip or dare before knowing what the dare is.
  • And of course, clothes.  Should each player be allowed to declare their own articles of clothing, or should there be a standard list?  And who gets to pick what they have to give up if they strip?  What I'll likely do is, each player gets to select some "articles" of clothing (around 3-5, each player gets the same number).  They can't wear anything other than what they've selected, but each article could be multiple different objects.  For instance, someone can decide their shoes and socks are one "article".

Would anyone be interested in such a game?  And what ideas do you guys and gals have for the actual game mechanics?

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 04:21:55 PM »
A few more thoughts on how things will work:

The game will take place in a modern-day Vegas-style casino.  It will be in a closed-off room, and aside from the players themselves, only serving staff (for drinks) and security are allowed inside.  It is, however, televised.  Because of all this, the prize for winning the tournament is several million.

For the chips, I'm thinking something along the lines of: Each player starts with 10 chips.  The dealer will be chosen randomly and will sit out the current hand.  The player to the dealer's left will open with a small blind of one chip, the next player will have a big blind of two chips.  After the hand, the dealer and all blinds move one player to the left, and the game continues.  When the dealer gets back to the original dealer, the big blind is increased by 1 chip, with the small blind remaining at half (rounded down) of the big blind.  Minimum bet is 1 chip, with no maximum.  If a player is out of chips, they must either complete a dare or lose some clothing; in either case they re-enter the game with 5 chips.

Dealing will be handled by whatever player is dealer, however they choose; I'm simply going to trust everyone to be honest with this.  Alternatively, I can handle all dealing with a separate NPC if the players agree, although I'll still be playing with a normal PC as well.

Offline Lady Morgana

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 07:47:38 AM »
Sounds fun - how do you plan on allocating cards?

I'd love to join in, though I'll need to work out the betting rules

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2011, 11:01:39 AM »
Not quite sure what you mean by allocating cards, but...

Dealing will either be done by the individual player that's dealing, or if everyone agrees, I'll act as dealer through another NPC (I'll still be playing a normal PC as well, so I'll have to ask everyone to trust that I won't be cheating).

As for betting, I'm not sure what system I'll go with exactly but I'd love suggestions.  It'll follow normal casino betting rules, no limit, but I need to figure out how many chips everyone starts with, what the blinds will be and how often/how much they increase, and how many chips a player gets when they run out and either do a dare or lose clothes.

The problem I'm going to run into is that as the game goes on, more and more chips enter the pool from people that have run out.  The main solution is to have the blinds constantly increase, to match the increase in chips, but that means someone that's knocked out once might not even have enough chips to cover the big blind when it comes to them again, even if they've won a hand or two before then.  Having the "return chips" scale based on how big the blinds currently are (say, 2x the big blind) would work, but it would also inflate the available chips a lot faster.  Although, if some chips are removed from the total pool each hand (say, the small blind is removed instead of going to the pot), that might work...

Anyway, ideas are appreciated.

Offline Lady Morgana

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2011, 11:11:22 AM »
The other problem with the increasing chips is that those who have just lost will find themselves at a huge disadvantage as the other players rack up their fortunes. Would it work resetting the game after each dare or strip so that all players face the equal possibility of losing next time? Each player playe would then start the next round on an even playing field.


Maybe it's a regional thing are blinds the same as the ante - the initial bet before anyone has seen their hand? In the UK a blind has a different meaning.

OK I think I get it, no ante, just the two blinds to the left of the dealer - I think . . .
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 11:16:41 AM by Lady Morgana »

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2011, 11:28:22 AM »
Sort of.  Basically, at the start of each hand, the person to the left of the "dealer" starts off with a small blind.  The player to the left of him then follows with a big blind, which is usually twice as much as the small blind.  Then betting begins as normal after everyone gets to see their hand of cards.  Everyone aside from the people with the blinds have to match the big blind or fold; essentially, the blinds are the same as any other bets for a hand, they're just forced.  Of course, raising is allowed during this part.  After the hand's done, the "dealer" passes to the left and the blinds follow.  (One person is still designated as the dealer for this, even if it's casino staff that's actually doing the dealing.)

The actual game we'd be playing is called Texas hold 'em.  Quick overview of how it's played:  After the blinds, everyone gets two cards dealt to them, and betting continues with the person to the left of the big blind.  After betting is finished, three cards (the "flop") are dealt to the middle of the table, face-up, and another round of betting begins.  After that round of betting, a fourth card (the "turn") is dealt to the center of the table, more betting, and then a fifth card (the "river") is dealt.  One more round of betting, and then each player still in the hand reveals their pocket cards, with the player able to make the best five-card hand using their two cards and the five community cards wins the hand.  (Usually, out of tradition, the dealer "burns" the top card of the deck before dealing the flop, turn, and river; that doesn't impact the game at all though, it mostly just looks fancier and prevents against someone knowing the next card in the deck if it's marked.)

As for resetting everything after someone runs out of chips... hm.  Not a bad idea, actually.  If that's the case, everyone will have very few starting chips, since otherwise it would be rather easy to simply pass constantly and not have to worry about running out if your only bets are when the blinds get to you, since chances are someone else will run out before that happens.  Say, 5 chips to start, small blind of 1 chip, big blind of 2 chips, and the blinds don't change.  As the hands go around the table, you'll have to pay the big blind at some point, and the small blind the next hand, and then as soon as the big blind gets to you again you're out of chips.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 12:38:52 PM by Sethala »

Offline Lady Morgana

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2011, 12:54:07 PM »
Yep, thanks - I know texas hold-em, just the blinds were new, we always played with an ante - everyone dropped one chip into the pot, but I'm OK with the idea of blinds now.

Does so few chips mean that whoever is two to the left of the dealer in the first game won't have sufficient chips to bet or call should anyone raise? As a possible alternative how about a rule that, for example, only allows a player to pass the first round of betting once every three hands (otherwise a forfeit of some kind).

How about an incentive for the winner so that everyone tries to win rather than 'not lose'. Say the winner nominates another player other than the loser to perform a dare?

Just a few initial thoughts . . .

Thanks again, and let me know when you're ready to start.

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2011, 01:10:26 PM »
Does so few chips mean that whoever is two to the left of the dealer in the first game won't have sufficient chips to bet or call should anyone raise?

Well, regardless of how many chips someone has, they can always go "all-in" and automatically check any future bets or raises.  The downside is that they can't win more than what they actually bet per person, and if they don't win, they're out of chips.  But it does mean you can't force someone else out of the game without at least giving them a chance to win the hand if they don't have enough chips to cover your bet.

Quote
As a possible alternative how about a rule that, for example, only allows a player to pass the first round of betting once every three hands (otherwise a forfeit of some kind).

If I go with something like that, I'd rather just give everyone more chips and have an ante required by everyone, possibly in addition to the blinds.  Most games of Texas hold 'em I've seen (at least the high-end ones) tend to involve at least half the table folding before the flop.  I know very few people here are professional poker players, but I don't want to limit how often someone can fold regardless.

Quote
How about an incentive for the winner so that everyone tries to win rather than 'not lose'. Say the winner nominates another player other than the loser to perform a dare?

Well, dares are kind of your "lives" in this game, in that once you reject enough, you're out of the tournament.  So I'm reluctant to give anyone the power to force a dare on someone that didn't run out of chips.

I did just think of something else, though.  Once someone's out of chips, the table "resets", but not everyone gets the same number of chips.  For example, say it's a table of 8 and everyone started with 7 chips.  The person that had the most chips before the "reset" starts off with 10 chips, the next highest with 9, and so on.  The player that ran out of chips starts over with 7.  That would mean ending a round with more chips gives a benefit, and just passing and not being the last guy with chips remaining won't be a good long-term strategy.

Offline Lady Morgana

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2011, 01:21:35 PM »
Sounds good, I like your thinking - I just hope the other players turn up soon.

We/you could always revise the rules if something isn't working.

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2011, 01:42:54 PM »
Well, this thread was mostly just rules brainstorming and try and generate interest.  I'll make a new thread with much cleaner rules as the actual signup thread later (tonight or tomorrow, possibly on the weekend).

Anyway, dares.  I'm leaning towards something like this:

When a player is out of chips, they have to either complete a dare or lose an article of clothing to remain in the game.  If they refuse the dare, they must lose some clothes instead.  If they refuse to do either, or are already naked and refuse the dare, they are eliminated.  The dare they must complete is chosen by the winner of the round they were eliminated in.

Dares may not involve the poker game in any way, nor may they involve removing clothes that are currently worn (clothes that were worn and have already been discarded, however, are fair game).  If a dare makes continuing the game difficult, casino staff are allowed to step in and assist.  In addition, dares may not involve something that would cause injury or would otherwise be unsafe.  (The GM is allowed to reject any dares that would be unreasonable, unsafe, etc.)

A player receiving a dare may refuse it if it closely resembles a previous dare they refused to complete.  Such dares may be proposed, but if refused, the person selecting a dare must decide on a new dare.

If more than one person runs out of chips in the same round, the winner of that round selects dares for everyone that ran out of chips.  Such dares may involve doing something together, or individually.  If one person refuses a dare that involves both players, the winner may select a new, solo dare for the player that did not refuse.  Dares may involve other players, however any player may refuse to be part of a dare that wasn't directed at them.  In such a case, the winner will have to select a new dare.

Dares may have lasting conditions.  If a player accepts a dare with lasting conditions and then later changes their mind, they may lose an article of clothing and reject the rest of the dare.  Additionally, once a player refuses a dare and strips, all of their lasting dares are canceled out "for free".

Offline ExisD

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2011, 05:37:58 PM »
Sounds very interesting and I'd love to join in if the game gets going.

As for chips, if you reset it as soon as one person runs out nothing will happen for a while. How about giving them chips when they either complete the dare or remove something? If the initial number is 5 chips then 1 chip per piece of clothing and 2 per dare? Though it wouldn't solve the problem of someone accumulating a ton of chips.

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2011, 05:56:46 PM »
Well, with just a basic "get chips back if you do X", there's a few problems.

First, remember that poker is intended to be a "zero-sum" game.  The number of chips on the table never actually changes, they just change hands.  If we allow players to add more chips, it means the value of one chip (and the risk associated with that value) keeps going down.  Now, this can balance itself out if the players are willing to bet higher and higher values, but that means the player that just got knocked out is very likely to get knocked out again; they have no safety net to climb back from.  It also means that the players that amass a large amount of chips can bet large values without much risk.

Escalating blinds help to make sure the bets stay at a high, risky level, but they don't help alleviate the problem of people coming back in with a small number of chips, especially if they don't restart with enough chips to cover the blind.  Giving back chips based on what the blind currently is can help, but that also escalates the problem.

Also, with a reset, the total number of chips per player will stay very low.  Since, thanks to the blinds, you have to bet something in order to play past your first two cards, it should mean it won't take long for people to get knocked out each time the table resets.  Also, if you're low on chips before a reset, you'll stay low after.  (If you get knocked out you get enough chips to put you in the middle of the pack, so to speak, so being unable to climb back up out of the pit shouldn't be a major difficulty... if you're willing to lose some of your modesty.)

Offline ExisD

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2011, 06:06:11 PM »
Yeah, I hadn't considered that at all.... Well I'm sure it will all work out in the end, how many players did you want to have before starting the game also?

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2011, 06:09:34 PM »
Don't know, but I'd like a good number (at least 6, probably).

This isn't really a signup thread though, just an ideas one.  I think I've got the actual poker part set, but I would like some input on the dare rules I listed earlier.  If no one's got complaints on those rules, I'll set out to make the actual signup thread and toss PMs to anyone that was interested here.

Offline ExisD

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2011, 06:30:18 PM »
I like the dare rules you currently have.

Offline Lady Morgana

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2011, 01:47:27 AM »
It all sounds good to me, I look forward to your invitation.

just a quick question

How will you coordinate the game, six players over different time zones are unlikely to be online at the same time and so a game may take some time to complete especially if we have to wait for each player to bet sequentially - was that four rounds of betting per game?


Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2011, 02:00:52 AM »
Well, if several players fold early in a hand, we won't have to wait for quite as many players.  That being said, I can think of a few ways to make things speed up a bit.

Before I go on though, I do want to point out that I plan on playing my own PC.  I'll do my best to not let other players' actions affect how I'm playing, but I realize that it does make it easy for me to cheat.  Still, I promise I won't be planning any actions based on what other players have said, instead going off of just what my character should know.

Anyway, I do have a few ideas.  Like I said, players that have folded are out, and while the player can post to heckle the remaining players, we won't be waiting on them at all.  It would also be possible for players to PM me their bidding intentions and I can simply post for them when their turn comes, to keep things moving quickly (i.e. if you know you're going to fold if the bet is over X, or if you know you'll raise all-in, or if you just want to call every bet that's under X, and don't care about what the other players do, I can go with that).  I could also add in a time limit; if it's your turn to bid and you take too long, I can step in and either call or fold for you if I haven't heard anything about what you want to do.

That brings me to another question, though.  Should there be a posting time limit, how long should it be, and should the default be either call, or fold?  Note that if the default is call and the current bet would have the player go all-in, I'll give them more time to post before doing anything.  Also, if there's no bid to match, check will be the default.

Anyway, I'll probably start up the official signup thread on Saturday, maybe Sunday if I get busy over the weekend.  I'll toss a PM to everyone that posted here when I do so, and your spots are reserved (at least for a short time).

Offline Lady Morgana

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2011, 02:08:27 AM »
Thanks,

I'll be watching - though I may not pick up your mail until monday morning (UK time)

Offline vin26m

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2011, 02:03:06 PM »
Hey,
 
I was in a thread similar to this one a while ago on another forum.  Here are some insights I got from that game about what worked and what didn't work.
 
The whole poker idea is nice in theory when it comes to being a suspenseful, random factor.  However, it is pretty easy to get caught up in the minutia of card rules and tracking chips and all that stuff.  The result is that the thread gets bogged down in details and people get bored.
 
A simpler idea is to use poker only as a dramatic, descriptive layer of some much simpler random factor, like a roll of the dice.  There is a Dice Bot at the top of the Elliquiy pages.
 
You can skip chips altogether, using only clothes, then dares.  Everyone gets the same small number of articles of clothing (top, bottom, bra/undershirt, panties/underwear).  When someone loses their clothes, they start getting dares.
 
The cards are dealt.  The winner is predetermined randomly.  Players roleplay their characters' reactions (taunting or talking about other players, expressing frustration from losing, celebrating a win).  All losers lose clothing (nobody folds because that's automatically a loss).  The winner picks one of the naked losers and gives them a dare.  The losers can make suggestions to the winner.  The dare can involve the other losers.  The winner can take any clothing the losers took off, keeping them during the game as trophies.  If a player doesn't post, the person in charge of the game can just NPC them.
 
 
 
 
 

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Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2011, 02:08:57 PM »
great suggestion Vin26m.

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2011, 02:22:28 PM »
Hey,
 
I was in a thread similar to this one a while ago on another forum.  Here are some insights I got from that game about what worked and what didn't work.
 
The whole poker idea is nice in theory when it comes to being a suspenseful, random factor.  However, it is pretty easy to get caught up in the minutia of card rules and tracking chips and all that stuff.  The result is that the thread gets bogged down in details and people get bored.
 
A simpler idea is to use poker only as a dramatic, descriptive layer of some much simpler random factor, like a roll of the dice.  There is a Dice Bot at the top of the Elliquiy pages.
 
You can skip chips altogether, using only clothes, then dares.  Everyone gets the same small number of articles of clothing (top, bottom, bra/undershirt, panties/underwear).  When someone loses their clothes, they start getting dares.
 
The cards are dealt.  The winner is predetermined randomly.  Players roleplay their characters' reactions (taunting or talking about other players, expressing frustration from losing, celebrating a win).  All losers lose clothing (nobody folds because that's automatically a loss).  The winner picks one of the naked losers and gives them a dare.  The losers can make suggestions to the winner.  The dare can involve the other losers.  The winner can take any clothing the losers took off, keeping them during the game as trophies.  If a player doesn't post, the person in charge of the game can just NPC them.

That's some interesting insight, and I may have to keep that in mind for later.  I am still going to go with my original plan however, as I think I can make it work (I'm a very numbers-oriented person, and with the slower pace of a forum game, I should easily be able to take care of tracking all the different numbers flying around).  Mostly though, I want to see how it can work.  Abstracting most of the minute details may work, although I'd rather avoid a game without some form of betting, abstracted or not (the idea here is of a high-end casino tournament, which doesn't work so well if it's just best hand wins with little or no actual betting strategy).

Still, if the game I'm planning doesn't work, I'll probably take some of your ideas and work on a way to roleplay a more abstract version.

Offline AliviaraMae

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2011, 08:31:14 PM »
I would be interested if we got some more players  :-)

Offline SethalaTopic starter

Re: Interest check: Strip/Dare Poker
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 09:45:42 PM »
Hm... you're a bit late, I made a different thread once I had the rules worked out, and we've already started.  Still, if things go bad, I'll try to keep you in mind and send you a message if I restart everything.

Locking this thread, as it's served its purpose.