You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.
 
December 07, 2016, 06:20:54 PM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

Click here if you are having problems.
Default Wide Screen Beige Lilac Rainbow Black & Blue October Send us your theme!

Hark!  The Herald!
Holiday Issue 2016

Wiki Blogs Dicebot

Author Topic: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT  (Read 4387 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline XajowTopic starter

Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« on: May 17, 2011, 11:58:52 AM »
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_b3177522-baa0-5c9e-9f0d-d3d7da6e9e4b.html
Quote
The Pima County Sheriff's Department has provided no details about the investigation that prompted the raid and little information about the moments leading up to 71 gunshots being fired at Guerena, whose gun had the safety on. He was shot 60 times, doctors told the family. Initially the Sheriff's Department said Guerena fired at officers, but they retracted that this week. Drexel Heights provided audio of the 911 calls after the Star filed a public records request.

[...]

The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.

Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the Sheriff's Department to hold off.

Dispatchers said there were several addresses where the SWAT team was going that morning and they were not sure if this house was one of them, the audio shows.

The Sheriff's Department dispatcher said she had not received any requests for medical help from deputies on scene. Drexel Heights fire dispatcher asked: "You don't want us going in, right?" The sheriff's operator then said: "I don't know what is going on. You guys go ahead and hold off until we know what it's going to be."

The Sheriff's Department operator said people at the scene wanted the medical help to stay back because they might be dealing with a "barricaded subject."

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_d7d979d4-f4fb-5603-af76-0bef206f8301.html
Quote
The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.

[...]

Vanessa Guerena says she heard noise outside their home about 9 a.m. Thursday and woke her husband who had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at the Asarco Mine, she said. There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.

Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said.

The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home.

"Tucson is notorious for home invasions and we didn't want to look like that," said Lt. Michael O'Connor of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. "We went lights and sirens and we absolutely did not do a 'no-knock' warrant."

When five SWAT members broke through the front door Guerena was crouched down pointing the gun at them, said O'Connor.

"The suspect said, 'I've got something for you,' when he saw them," O'Connor said. Guerena's wife denied he said that.

Deputies began shooting.

A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, O'Connor said.

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14657011/911-tapes-released-in-deadly-swat-shooting
Quote
Help did arrive; and, reports show a Lifeline helicopter was put on standby. But, a KGUN9 investigation uncovered it took an hour-and-fourteen-minutes before SWAT let paramedics work on Guerena.

[...]

A  Pima County Sheriff's Department spokesperson told KGUN9 the search warrants from the Guerena's home, as well as three others hit by swat that day, remain sealed.

And some people still wonder why I don't trust the police.

Offline Tummyache

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 12:17:55 PM »
Trigger happy Psychopaths.  >:(

Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 12:49:56 PM »
No, the police are not psychopaths. And in ordinary circumstances they are probably not trigger happy. Make no mistake, police have my respect. They just don't have my trust. The SWAT team probably acted in a manner consistent with an expectation of dealing with a violent criminal. The problem is, they were not dealing with a violent criminal. They were dealing with a man who was defending his family from unknown (to him) home invaders. (And don't anyone tell me the police announced themselves. Someone outside your house shouts "Police!" while you're asleep, and you wake up to someone breaking down your door, you won't know who they are at first either.) And I am not letting the SWAT off the hook. They need to be held accountable for what they have done, but very likely they will not be.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 01:01:48 PM »
Trigger happy Psychopaths.  >:(

I'm not going to say it is quite that cut and dried. I think there were possible mitigating circumstances and I'm SURE there was a break down in the line of communication.

Still, 60 rounds seems a bit.. much.

I hope there is a clear investigation.

Offline Shjade

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 01:30:26 PM »
I like how they felt a need to report SWAT held back medical help for an hour and some minutes. Dude was shot 60 times; I somehow doubt immediate medical attention would've had much effect.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 01:38:49 PM »
Heads will roll over this. I suspect that procedures will be review and EVERYONE's actions will be as well.

Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 05:51:58 PM »
Callie, I wish I had your optimistic outlook about how this will be handled. While I am sure everyone's actions will be reviewed, what I have seen in previous stories about SWAT teams in similar situations is that most often the police departments claim after thorough review the officers all acted appropriately. Sometimes officers even get awards for their conduct. So while I will try to keep up with this, but I don't hold out much hope for anyone getting fired over it.

Offline Funguy81

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 06:07:09 PM »
I'm sure that what ever happens to the members of that team the fact that this happened will weigh heavily on their minds for the rest of their lives.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 06:14:52 PM »
Callie, I wish I had your optimistic outlook about how this will be handled. While I am sure everyone's actions will be reviewed, what I have seen in previous stories about SWAT teams in similar situations is that most often the police departments claim after thorough review the officers all acted appropriately. Sometimes officers even get awards for their conduct. So while I will try to keep up with this, but I don't hold out much hope for anyone getting fired over it.

I'm not sure I'd call my outlook Optimistic but.... I'd say that this isn't going to be something easily forgotten and swept under the rug. I just get the feeling that some points of the story, pro or con, haven't been brought up in the media yet.

That was like the story I heard up in Maine that some police shot a guy in a wheelchair for no reason. Of course later on it comes otu that he had a knife and the under current I got for the folks in security was there was more to it than just that one encounter with the man. A LOT of information gets painted over.. from both sides.

Offline XajowTopic starter


Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2011, 12:27:55 PM »
What a surprise. The SWAT team is defending the choice to shoot a man 60 times in less than 10 seconds.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tucson-swat-team-defends-shooting-iraq-marine-veteran/story?id=13640112

UPDATE: SWAT teams members claim they had "no choice but to shoot." This is, I predict, going to be the reason the officers will not be disciplined by the department.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_54486592-8257-11e0-950b-001cc4c002e0.html
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 12:38:32 PM by Xajow »

Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 05:49:09 PM »
Radley Balko, who has a long history of reporting on similar stories, weighs in with an excellent analysis of the events of this story.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 07:21:04 PM »
Interesting perspective, but stuff like this:

Quote
After ushering out his wife and son, the police refused to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour, leaving the young father to bleed to death, alone, in his own home.

Is one reason I've started to loathe modern 'journalism' so strongly. Seriously - the man was struck by 60 bullets, does anyone believe he wasn't killed near-instantly, or within a minute or two of hitting the floor? All immediate access to paramedics would have done is let them confirm his time of death sooner.

That makes this whole incident no less tragic and stupid though, so inflammatory and inaccurate reporting aside, I do hope this gets heavily publicized enough to where something happens to the people responsible.

Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 08:56:37 PM »
Is one reason I've started to loathe modern 'journalism' so strongly. Seriously - the man was struck by 60 bullets, does anyone believe he wasn't killed near-instantly, or within a minute or two of hitting the floor? All immediate access to paramedics would have done is let them confirm his time of death sooner.
So you're a doctor? You know for certain he was dead instantly or in a few minutes time? I'm just asking because you seem so certain.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 08:57:38 PM »
So you're a doctor? You know for certain he was dead instantly or in a few minutes time? I'm just asking because you seem so certain.

I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV Elliquiy. :D

Offline Tick

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2011, 01:06:53 AM »
Here is my thing about this.

The police are taught that when you fire your weapon, you shoot to kill. If you are trying to take them alive, in which case you feel it is safe to try to take them alive, you use a taser or non lethal weapons. At the point which you fire your weapon, it is always for the chest, to kill. As such, they are taught to make sure the target is dead. In many cases you have adreniline running through the officers body along with, multiple officers. Think of it like this, for those who have played games like Area 51 or Time Crisis, did you stop at one bullet for each target? When I got into the heat of the game it wasn't uncommon for me to shoot two or three on one person by accident.

So factor in their training, which is, if firing, make sure he is dead. When an officer fires, most the time they unload their clip, and if the person is still standing, then reload and keep firing. I believe the standard police officer's weapon carries fifteen rounds. SWAT works in teams of four to six I believe, but I am not sure about that. Five(average SWAT unit) times fifteen is seventy-five bullets. Now that is a side arm. SWAT, correct me on this if you are sure, works with heavier weapons that have larger clips. With everyone firing as fast as they can to make sure someone who might kill someone on their team, it really isn't surprising to have dozens of bullets into a perpetrator.

People get too used to media, movies, books, and TV shows where the cops are, one shot, one kill. But in real life it rarely works that way. Consider a officers worst nightmare, PCP. Often times they will keep coming after an officer even with thirty plus bullets in them. The reality is that for an officer who crosses the line to use his firearm, the most logical action is to do everything in their power to make sure that the person they are shooting at is dead, or at least so close to it that they can't hope to shoot back. On that same note, the claim that the officers thought he fired the weapon, when you are in a high stress situation with the possibility of you, or one of your teammates who are like brothers being shot, while adreniline is flooding your body. It is to be expected to ready incase the worse happened. As such, he could have heard, or seen something else. Say the man shifted the guy to point at one of his buddies, jumped the gun thinking the man was firing.

In short: Cops are taught that when they fire their weapon, they go for the kill, multiple officers firing at a single target until he hits the floor and possibly a few seconds after that results in a large quantity of bullets. If they announced they were with the police upon the raid then if he held a weapon upon their entering in a threatening manner, from my understanding it is not obvious if the safety is off from a distance, then they thought they were defending themselves.

I'm not saying that there weren't mistakes that did, or might have happened.(I don't trust the media on these cases) But I don't believe that some things warrant, the "gasp how could they" response the media gives to any time an officer fires a weapon.

Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 04:27:31 AM »
That's all nice and good, but my problem with that is the police seem do not accord that respect to civilians. Just ask Cory Maye. You speak of high stress situations. Members of the family of the wife of the dead Marine had been killed in home invasions. The Marine wakes up to the sound of people breaking into his home. He grabs his weapon and challenges the invaders in his attempt to protect his family. Where is the respect for a Marine with no history of criminal behavior? And it's not a "gasp how could they" every time an officer fires a weapon. It's a, "hey, what's going on that SWAT were at the man's house, shot 71 bullets at him and then refused to allow him any medical assistance?" It's not unreasonable to ask those questions. Yes, police often operate under stress and need to protect themselves. But given that they are officers of the law, representatives of government with authority to use deadly force, their conduct in the line of duty needs to be held to a higher standard.

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2011, 07:57:59 AM »
Not to mention the fact that they left him on the floor of his home bleeding out for an hour without medical care is the issue at hand. Though I can't believe it would have helped. That borders on willful negligence.. though I'm sure that it was intended as such.

The issue of the warrant is what gets me thinking, there is a LOT of issues on that.

Offline Xandria

  • Insatiable Dreamer
  • Dame
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Where reality fades into fantasy...
  • Gender: Female
  • Chasing adventure with a cheeky grin.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2011, 04:14:00 PM »
Just piping in to reiterate the point that we do not have all the facts in this case. Sure some of the preliminary reports indicate there may very well be some serious issues with the raid, but why not wait until the investigation is completed before drawing conclusions, passing judgement and leveling accusations against the SWAT team and department? 

Now for my gripe...I believe it's disrespectful and unfair to make generalizations about all Police being "untrustworthy", and especially take issue with calling any of them "trigger happy psychopaths."  It's been my experience that the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers are dedicated professionals who definitely hold themselves to a higher standard, and we're damn lucky they are willing to do this job. Ask yourself if you would you be? 


“The truth is rarely pure and never simple.”
 Oscar Wilde     

« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 04:44:15 PM by Xandria »

Online Callie Del Noire

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2011, 10:18:19 PM »
True.. but there is a lot of silence over the warrants.

As for why they let him bleed out, if it was just procedure wouldn't the department head have already pointed that out? 

My take on the leaving him without medical care? Some sort of communication snafu.

Raids, particularly ones like this, are intricate complicated things. It's easy to screw up the process.

Offline Xandria

  • Insatiable Dreamer
  • Dame
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Where reality fades into fantasy...
  • Gender: Female
  • Chasing adventure with a cheeky grin.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2011, 10:55:53 PM »
To me the silence is irrelevant because this is under investigation. As far as I'm concerned there are details that should be, and will be, kept out of the public domain until it is complete.  I will never understand why people can't be patient and let the Police do their job, and why some are so quick to scream cover up just because certain facts aren't laid out for public consumption immediately.  Why can't we give the investigators the benefit of the doubt?

I understand what your saying about the delay and the warrants being kept under wraps, but I firmly believe making assumptions about why often ends up being inflammatory rhetoric that does far more harm than good.  I'm not pointing fingers, just giving my opinion.


Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2011, 12:17:37 AM »
Just piping in to reiterate the point that we do not have all the facts in this case. Sure some of the preliminary reports indicate there may very well be some serious issues with the raid, but why not wait until the investigation is completed before drawing conclusions, passing judgement and leveling accusations against the SWAT team and department? 

Now for my gripe...I believe it's disrespectful and unfair to make generalizations about all Police being "untrustworthy", and especially take issue with calling any of them "trigger happy psychopaths."  It's been my experience that the overwhelming majority of law enforcement officers are dedicated professionals who definitely hold themselves to a higher standard, and we're damn lucky they are willing to do this job. Ask yourself if you would you be?
I did not call anyone a trigger happy psychopath. I also did not say all police are untrustworthy. I did, however, say I don't trust the police. And I also said I respect them.

You say wait until the investigation is complete. I know they fired 71 bullet in less than a minute. I know they let the man bleed to death. Reports are they found nothing illegal at his house. I know the warrant wasn't sealed until several days after the raid. I know if the police had found anything of note at the man's house, they would be trumpeting it and the warrant would likely be available. Why do I need to wait for police to finish investigating themselves to have an opinion about this?

When I was a child, my best friend's father was a Sheriff's Deputy. One day he was answering what he thought was a routine disturbance call. He knocked, announced himself, and was shot in the chest for his trouble. He did not survive the encounter. I know full well that police officers need to protect themselves. I know full well that they are generally upstanding individuals. I also know they are people with authority to use force. And I know they are humans, not angels.

You say "making assumptions about why often ends up being inflammatory rhetoric that does far more harm than good." More harm than a man dead? It's hard for me to have sympathy for the police in this situation. Family members of the man's wife have been killed in home invasions. The man is awakened by the sounds of men in black and with firearms breaking into his home. He grabs a rifle to defend his family. And now he is dead. I know I would not cavalier about "let the police do their job" if that man was a member of my family. Shot 60 times and allowed to bleed to death. That isn't a minor mistake. And accepting that as police just doing their job is a little hard for me.

And apparently the SWAT team broke into a house and didn't know whose house it was or who they were going to find inside. Seems to me, that is exactly the sort of thing police officers protecting themselves and the community should know before breaking down the door of a house.

Saying I do not trust police is not the same as accusing them all of being untrustworthy. Law enforcement officers absolutely have my respect for what they do. But I've seen what has happened when law enforcement isn't questioned. I've read the stories of Cory Maye, and Kathryn Johnston and the men who were falsely imprisoned because the FBI was protecting an informant, to name just three such tales. So no, the police do not hold my trust. Individual officers whom I know or have known, them I trust.  But I don't know them all. And I don't know how to tell the good ones from the bad ones on sight alone. Do you?

Offline Xandria

  • Insatiable Dreamer
  • Dame
  • Enchanted
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Location: Where reality fades into fantasy...
  • Gender: Female
  • Chasing adventure with a cheeky grin.
  • My Role Play Preferences
  • View My Rolls
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2011, 12:59:05 AM »
I did not call anyone a trigger happy psychopath. I also did not say all police are untrustworthy. I did, however, say I don't trust the police. And I also said I respect them.

You say wait until the investigation is complete. I know they fired 71 bullet in less than a minute. I know they let the man bleed to death. Reports are they found nothing illegal at his house. I know the warrant wasn't sealed until several days after the raid. I know if the police had found anything of note at the man's house, they would be trumpeting it and the warrant would likely be available. Why do I need to wait for police to finish investigating themselves to have an opinion about this?

When I was a child, my best friend's father was a Sheriff's Deputy. One day he was answering what he thought was a routine disturbance call. He knocked, announced himself, and was shot in the chest for his trouble. He did not survive the encounter. I know full well that police officers need to protect themselves. I know full well that they are generally upstanding individuals. I also know they are people with authority to use force. And I know they are humans, not angels.

You say "making assumptions about why often ends up being inflammatory rhetoric that does far more harm than good." More harm than a man dead? It's hard for me to have sympathy for the police in this situation. Family members of the man's wife have been killed in home invasions. The man is awakened by the sounds of men in black and with firearms breaking into his home. He grabs a rifle to defend his family. And now he is dead. I know I would not cavalier about "let the police do their job" if that man was a member of my family. Shot 60 times and allowed to bleed to death. That isn't a minor mistake. And accepting that as police just doing their job is a little hard for me.

And apparently the SWAT team broke into a house and didn't know whose house it was or who they were going to find inside. Seems to me, that is exactly the sort of thing police officers protecting themselves and the community should know before breaking down the door of a house.

Saying I do not trust police is not the same as accusing them all of being untrustworthy. Law enforcement officers absolutely have my respect for what they do. But I've seen what has happened when law enforcement isn't questioned. I've read the stories of Cory Maye, and Kathryn Johnston and the men who were falsely imprisoned because the FBI was protecting an informant, to name just three such tales. So no, the police do not hold my trust. Individual officers whom I know or have known, them I trust.  But I don't know them all. And I don't know how to tell the good ones from the bad ones on sight alone. Do you?


First, why would you think my post was directed at you specifically?  It wasn't.  Second, all I said was that people should hold off on judgement until the investigation is complete, and all the facts are known, which is why I refuse to debate the details, but you've still gone ahead and interpreted my comments in the context of your own biases, and the assumptions you've already made about his case.  I stand by my assertion that throwing opinions around in the way that has been done here, is inflammatory rhetoric and doesn't serve any positive purpose.  Third, my experience with law enforcement is not yours and vice versa, no need to argue that point, and I am not undermining the severity or injustices you've witnessed, it's merely our individual observations differ and we can agree to disagree.

Lastly, do I know the good officers from the bad ones on sight? Nope...can you not argue the same thing about Teachers, Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses...the list goes on? This is why I look at the preponderance of the evidence. For every bad case history and story there are COUNTLESS good ones but nobody talks about those because they aren't juicy.  You can name three tales of false imprisonment (there are many more)...but there isn't enough room on this board for me to name the tales of justice done right. 

I will also add that while my heart goes out to this man's family, and I would most certainly feel differently if it were my husband, those emotions can't dictate how an investigation is conducted.  "The law is reason, free from passion" as Aristotle said...and that is the system we have.  If we don't like it, then we need to change it in the right ways.

Offline XajowTopic starter

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2011, 02:24:09 AM »
First, why would you think my post was directed at you specifically?
I don't recall saying it was. You appeared to be reacting to posts that were critical of the police in this situation, and mine are certainly among those.

Second, all I said was that people should hold off on judgement until the investigation is complete, and all the facts are known, which is why I refuse to debate the details, but you've still gone ahead and interpreted my comments in the context of your own biases,
Who doesn't? People do that to me all the time. I stopped bothering to talk politics at another site because I kept having to explain the same things about what I believe over and over and over, and often to the same individuals. I try not to be too biased, but I am only human.

I stand by my assertion that throwing opinions around in the way that has been done here, is inflammatory rhetoric and doesn't serve any positive purpose.
Fair enough.

Third, my experience with law enforcement is not yours and vice versa, no need to argue that point, and I am not undermining the severity or injustices you've witnessed, it's merely our individual observations differ and we can agree to disagree.
I don't believe I argued about your experience with law enforcement at all.

Lastly, do I know the good officers from the bad ones on sight? Nope...can you not argue the same thing about Teachers, Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses...the list goes on?
Nurses, doctors, teachers, et cetera, generally do not have authority to use violent force. Law enforcement officers do.

This is why I look at the preponderance of the evidence. For every bad case history and story there are COUNTLESS good ones but nobody talks about those because they aren't juicy.  You can name three tales of false imprisonment (there are many more)...but there isn't enough room on this board for me to name the tales of justice done right.
Indeed. But the abundance of tales of abuse of police power is sufficient to prevent me from trusting police. If you're going to say that's wrong in your opinion, and pretty much you did, I'm going to say why I disagree. Not sure why that seems to be a problem.

I will also add that while my heart goes out to this man's family, and I would most certainly feel differently if it were my husband, those emotions can't dictate how an investigation is conducted.  "The law is reason, free from passion" as Aristotle said...and that is the system we have.  If we don't like it, then we need to change it in the right ways.
Of course our emotions cannot dictate how an investigation is conducted. No one said otherwise.

Offline Silk

Re: Marine Killed, Shot 60 Times by... SWAT
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2011, 08:30:51 AM »
The problem is Xajou is that we do not hear of the good ones, its a similar fashion to the social workers issue here in the UK like with Baby P. "omg this happened social workers are so bad and incompetent, why arn't they saying anything about their situation that shows just how guilty and incompetent they are!"

Well unfortunately, it those one in 300ish situations are the only ones we the public hear about, and when they do, we only get to hear one side of the arguement because *shock horror* the legal conglormarate side (police, social workers etc) are bound by privacy laws to NOT say anything in regards to the situation.