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Author Topic: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)  (Read 5254 times)

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Offline Starlequin

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2011, 08:35:17 AM »
Hehe, there's caaaaake...

*thinks back to when they first met, and whispers*

...and ice cream bombs...    >:)

Offline Phobetor

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2011, 08:43:27 AM »
*Eyes the cake*

...Ice cream bombs!!

*Begins to edge closer to the dark side*

Though I am highly curious about the human question lol

Offline Kate

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2011, 08:49:44 AM »
humans definately would be welcomed as players ! surely !

It wouldn't be as fun without some human players !

Create a character and post away ! :)

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2011, 12:14:33 PM »
I was thinking of having Raziel be a voice of good since he's the keeper of God's secrets in lore. I don't think God in all his "divine knowledge" would let someone with a strained moral fiber be the one to protect his knowledge. I think I know how I want to play him off the key archangels, and I also have reasons why he choses to be one of the lesser prominent.

I was thinking Raziel would have been close to Raphael before the fall, but they grew apart the closer he grew to Lucifer and Azazel. He would also see Michael as an older brother rather than a leader. He would be the voice of reason to Azrael when he needs someone to point him in the right direction, though he doesn't consider the "Angel of Death" a friend. He considers Ariel to be a friend and respects the fact that Azrael cares for her as much as he does. He may be serving the side of good, but he understands the Lucifer's wishes, and makes it known that he forgives his brother for not seeing God's true plan. He hates that his two older brothers are on opposite sides of the war, thinking the whole thing to be two brothers fighting for their father's love.

Raziel wouldn't get involved in the war directly, only offering his aid to the side of good when he feels it serves his father's true wishes. And since he's the one who keeps the knowledge of the divine, he would be the one to know. Out of the older Archangels, Raziel sees himself as the furthest from human despite his more human traits, seeing them as better than himself.

So, if all that's alright, I'll start working on his sheet.

Awesome, yeah I'll definitely accept that.

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2011, 12:29:10 PM »
Kate - Awesome character! Welcome! :) I look forward to seeing her in action.

Dependant- Yes humans are pretty vital characters as well, I actually had a canon made up for one of the human military commanders but I wasn't sure if anyone would even be interested in playing a human lol, and yes at the moment the list is up to date so if you want to grab up one of the good Archangel spots, by all means go for it. :)

1SAZ - They've basically shared anti-demon technology involving crafting bullets and guns with the capability of killing demons, aside from that you pretty much had creative freedom to throw any technology in there that you'd like, just keep in mind most things would have come into development for the sole purpose of the war. Angels would probably be able to pass as humans for a short while but the demons would be able to sense them, Archangels would be able to mask their presence probably for a longer time due to their strength, but at the same time it would be much easier for demons to sense them than regular angles in hiding. Pretty much the only Archangels that were captured were the ones I listed, so you could play it that Raziel managed to evade capture and yes that would be awesome if you wanted to explain the leap in technology with the character's lore.



Hope that answers all the questions, I was without interwebs for a day and had to play catch-up lol. Annnnd the Dark Side may have cookies...but we've got tacos! :)


Offline Phobetor

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2011, 03:07:22 PM »
Cookies?
Tacos?

Well gee!!

>_<

Tacos win. *Snicker* Now I just have to decide whether or not I want to be a bad ass human or a Fallen or an Arch Angel.

Decisions, decisions!!

Offline Dependent

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2011, 03:20:28 PM »
Colour me interested in playing some human, then.  I'll wait on a character listing before deciding who I'd like to play - or if I'd like to create a sheet.

Offline 1SAZ

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2011, 04:13:01 PM »
1SAZ - They've basically shared anti-demon technology involving crafting bullets and guns with the capability of killing demons, aside from that you pretty much had creative freedom to throw any technology in there that you'd like, just keep in mind most things would have come into development for the sole purpose of the war. Angels would probably be able to pass as humans for a short while but the demons would be able to sense them, Archangels would be able to mask their presence probably for a longer time due to their strength, but at the same time it would be much easier for demons to sense them than regular angles in hiding. Pretty much the only Archangels that were captured were the ones I listed, so you could play it that Raziel managed to evade capture and yes that would be awesome if you wanted to explain the leap in technology with the character's lore.

Hope that answers all the questions, I was without interwebs for a day and had to play catch-up lol. Annnnd the Dark Side may have cookies...but we've got tacos! :)

Awesome. I'll get to work on his sheet asap then.

Offline 1SAZ

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2011, 05:52:26 PM »
Character Name: Raziel (hiding under the name Aiden Ó Leannain)
Character Type: Archangel
Affiliation: Good
Special Abilities: Having written down the knowledge of God while sitting next to his throne since the day he was "born", Raziel has knowledge of magic and technology beyond most angels and well beyond humans. Roughly half of said knowledge is written down in a book that was passed down through generations of humans, though it is incomplete.
Mastered the art of concealing himself from demons, which aided in avoiding capture.
Appearance: Raziel, in hiding, wears various suits without a tie, finding them to be far more comfortable than his uniform when he sat next to God. Under his coat, he keeps a pistol he designed while on earth that is specially designed to kill demons, it's ammo etched with runes from his book, as well as his "flaming sword" from when he angelic days. While his sword appears as just a hilt of a sword with a blade hardly fitting of a dagger, when activated, it has a blade of blue energy that he describes as holy fire.

History: Raziel's "life" began shortly after his older brother's, Lucifer and Michael. Raziel was created by their father for the soul purpose of being his ear, someone to listen to his words and hold their meaning while the other two handled the wishes of their father. Raziel grew quite happy with his duty as he helped to expand the heavens in size and technology, making it truly the paradise worthy of their father. He took great pride in his work, and when God decided to start another project, Raziel was more than happy to assist in any way he could. The new project his father took on was that of the plane of men, creating the world and all that lay in it for his newest creations, Humans. While Raziel saw the perfection in these new creatures, his brothers questioned their being, which only left Raziel to sulk at the bickering of his older brothers and the formation of the two sides. Raziel did not take sides at first, befriending Raphael to make him see the errors of his ways and Ariel out of a need to find someone who could understand his ramblings.

When the war finally did come, Raziel was hardly surprised by what happened, though he was saddened by the fighting. The only time Raziel engaged in the fighting was when one side threatened the library where the knowledge he collected was held, and showed the wrath of the divine that he held. He became the protector of God's knowledge, though he despised having to fight against his misguided brothers and sisters. It wasn't until his younger brother Raphael came to him for help that Raziel put down his guard, only to be tricked to coming to earth. Raphael wanted his brother to change sides and give the knowledge he collected to Lucifer, though he swore he would bring him down with him if he refused.

Raziel finally realized that there was no way he could stand by and let his brothers fight without taking a side, and rather than being dragged down to hell, he promised Raphael he would bring him one of his books in exchange for his freedom. Raziel fled into hiding that day, hiding on earth amongst the humans as he prepared for what he knew was coming. He had no idea it would take as long as it did for his brother's to make their first move, and even longer for the war to finally be brought to the humans.

Hiding as an eccentric Irish inventor at the time, Raziel was now known as Aiden Ó Leannain when the first vampires attacked. Raziel went to work by assisting in the creation of anti-vampire weapons, giving the humans a fighting chance against the first wave. He knew the humans wouldn't accept him completely if he revealed his true form, so he went into hiding for 35 years before showing himself again when he felt the humans needed him again. Some remembered him from the first years of the war on earth, but Raziel insisted it was his father who helped them before.

Going to work with a military base to advance their offensive and defensive technology, Raziel finally found a place he felt at home since he was forced into hiding. Working closely with many scientists and specialists, Aiden advanced technology for the humans by roughly 20 years, though he was surprised by the advancements made in the time he was gone. It wasn't till he found his journal that he left on earth millennia ago that he understood the advances. Some of the secrets in the book still had yet to be deciphered, so Raziel decoded them for the humans, giving them what they needed to stand on their own two feet.

Despite what he gave them so far, Raziel stayed in hiding amongst the humans to help them advance their own technology. It was the least he could do given that they helped protect him from his brothers, and it also gave him a place to hide from the demons that would hunt him. One scientist he began working with was Julie Kayama, finding her work to be the first step humans took towards understanding their own abilities.

Other: Raziel sees humans as God's ultimate creation, and as such holds them in the highest esteem. Despite that, Raziel has no problem telling them they are children who have yet to realize the full extent of their abilities and knowledge. He is usually seen as irritable when something doesn't seem to work the way he planned due to what he considers inferior tools, but he still tries to work around the conditions he is faced with.  He finds most intellectuals to be of interest, if only for conversations concerning the thoughts he has constantly emerging from his mind.

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2011, 12:15:45 AM »
Very nice job with Raziel, and I really like how he's hiding out amongst the humans, should be an awesome storyline to play out at some point.



Colour me interested in playing some human, then.  I'll wait on a character listing before deciding who I'd like to play - or if I'd like to create a sheet.
I did have an idea for a human military commander-type, who would basically be the leading 'regular' human who isn't one of the Blessed or Cursed, and naturally he would be a total badass for a human. Just an idea though..


Also I'd really like someone talented to grab up Ariel, pleeease :) lol

I'll start the IC thread either later on tonight or tomorrow night, I think we have enough so far to atleast get the ball rolling.

Offline 1SAZ

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2011, 01:39:03 AM »
When you think of Raziel talking, think of the most stereotypical Irish accent possible. You have to keep in mind he picked it up while in hiding, so it's going to sound exactly like how he heard it. haha

Offline Starlequin

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2011, 02:15:09 AM »
Ladies, Gentlemen, and Various Other Lifeforms, allow me to present your host, your very own personal tour guide to the Apocalypse, the Being without whom life would be sweet as a bowl of cherries and twice as dull...Lucifer!    >:)

***
Character Name: Lucifer Morningstar
Character Type: Fallen Archangel
Affiliation: Evil
Age: None. Time is for monkeys.

Special Abilities: Nigh-unparalleled physical and psychic power, comprehensive and complete understanding and manipulation of the fundamental workings of space, time, energy and matter, creation of perfectly detailed illusions and life-like simulacra, mind reading, mental domination, emotional manipulation, flight.

Appearance: Negotiable.

History:
~In the beginning, there was the Void, and reality was formless. And then God spoke, and said "Let There Be Light." With those words the first being, the first angel, Lucifer Morningstar, was created, and his light brought form and shape to the universe. The Light-Bringer watched as God, his beautiful, wonderful, amazing Creator, split the World into Heaven and Earth, Sky and Land, and filled each with wholly new, incredible beings and beasts. Lucifer watched in loving wonder at each new creation, and rejoiced in The Maker's designs, showering praise upon praise on every living miracle and work of splendor. He was joined in his devotion by his sibling angels, created especially by God to keep his most favored servant company, and there was such rejoicing in Paradise.

And then, God created the monkeys.

Lucifer watched, confused, as The Creator endeavored to make something completely original: a being possessed of both divine spirit and free will. In his innocence, Lucifer sought audience with God and asked why He should make such a thing, and God's answer filled him with delight. It was The Creator's wish to learn if a creation could willingly love its Creator if given that rarest of all aspects, the power to choose. How marvelous! How incredible! How noble was The Creator, to create such a magnificent animal! Surely, thought Lucifer, no creature could know of God and not worship Him freely.

And yet...

Lucifer watched through the ages as the monkeys grew and evolved, first learning to live within the trees, then returning to the ground, their simple minds growing with every generation until they began to resemble his own angelic brethren, albeit crudely. As The Maker made Himself known again and again, Lucifer was horrified to watch as some of the monkeys began to turn away from His presence. The Great Experiment had failed, he thought grievously. There could be no place in Heaven or Earth for such abominations. God would doubtless wipe them from existence and start again, perhaps with one of the other many races which populated His World.

But no. Lucifer continued to observe as God not only spared the monkeys, but made excuses for them! Not only did He allow them to survive, He let them thrive! They began to spread across the face of the Earth like a virus, a pathogen that existed only for its own sake and cared nothing for the consumption and devastation it left in its wake. Lucifer again went to God and attempted to bring Him back to reason, but this time God denied Lucifer's request, insisting that the monkeys were still worth saving. Lucifer was heart-broken, for he realized that the new race of Man was now God's most favored creation.

And so, the Morningstar went down among the monkeys and studied them closer, hoping to learn how such filthy, defective creatures had captured The Maker's favor, but understanding eluded him. He elected to bring sorrow and strife to the race of Man in the hopes of better illuminating their endless faults and shortcomings, that The Creator would see them for the failures they were. To his everlasting shame, The Maker rebuked him for his labors of love! Then, to make matters worse, Lucifer watched in despair as He went down amongst them Himself and actually...actually lived as one of them! The archangel's tears fell for ages as he watched his beloved God lower and debase Himself like a common monkey, trying to teach and inspire His creations from among their ranks.

Twice, he approached Him, his wonderous God wrapped in such decrepit meat, and begged Him to return to Heaven and abandon these psychotic fleshlings; once, he came upon Him fasting in the wilderness and fell to his knees, sobbing and pleading with Him to come home, and again as the murderous apes...oh, the audacity! To think that anything could show such, such disrespect! Such contempt! Oh, if his heart had been broken before, surely it shattered into dust as he clutched weakly at the Creator's foot, as He hung nailed to a tree and allowed Himself to suffer, to anguish at mortal hands, and all for THEIR SAKE!!!

At last, it was clear to Lucifer what had to be done. It pained him so very much, but there would be no more denying. The Creator had gone completely insane; it would fall to Lucifer, His most good and faithful servant, the Highest of the Choirs, to bring Him back to His senses. And to do it would be the hardest task he would ever undertake.

Lucifer gathered as many of his brothers and sisters as he dared, and told them of his plan, a plan so unthinkably daring that few could even comprehend it. Lucifer would rebel against the Maker, and depose Him from His Throne, and from there he would restore their Father's faculties to Him and remove the diseased love in His heart for Mankind, and in doing so set God free of His inexplicable obsession with the monkeys to reign over Heaven and Earth once more.

Naturally, most of his siblings rejected the notion as blasphemous and steadfastly refused to join the Light-Bringer in his efforts, but a few remained with him and shared his convictions and concerns for The Maker. And so, a war was waged in Heaven for The Maker's sake. Lucifer and his scant legion of two hundred angels fought valiantly against their own brethren, battling tirelessly to avoid bloodshed as best they could manage, but in the end the armies of Heaven were simply too great. Lucifer and his companions were at last overwhelmed, and his own brother Michael Demiurgos, the Second Angel, struck him with all his force and sent him plummeting from the World into the Void below, where his power was sealed away for eternity.

The First War of Heaven was over, and Lucifer had lost.

But the Second War of Heaven was coming, and Lucifer would not lose again. The First of The Fallen created for himself a new domain within the Void, outside of God's sight, and called it Hell. Many of his followers, those who fell with him but lacked the strength to maintain themselves outside of God's grace, became twisted and deformed versions of their former glorious selves, and became the first Demons. Upon seeing the fates of his brethren, Lucifer hatched a new plan to save The Creator from Himself, one that would use His own favorites against Him. The First War had been lost simply because of numbers; God had them, and Lucifer didn't. Now, that would change. He began to collect the souls of mortals, fragile, pathetic creatures that they were, and worked to re-forge them into lesser demons under his command. For countless millenia Lucifer's demesnes grew stronger and stronger, his forces gathering might and number by the day, until at last the time came to strike.

Whether by chance or design, Lucifer has discovered that God has finally abandoned His precious Creation, and hope has sparked in his heart deeper and brighter than ever before. In His absence, the armies of Heaven have fallen to squabbling among themselves, and Paradise has been torn asunder. With the help of Azazel, his most loyal and trusted friend, and his brothers Uriel and Raphael, Michael and the rest of their meddlesome siblings have been safely captured and removed from harm's way. Mankind has grown weaker and more complacent than ever before, and a way has finally been uncovered to bridge the divide between Hell and Earth. The Light-Bringer is risen once again. He will lay waste to the monkeys, in retribution for their transgressions. He will unify the angels at last under his command. And he will find The Creator, and bring Him home.

And not even God will help those who stand in his way.

Other: Out of some sliver of lingering respect for The Creator's authority, Lucifer will rarely -- if ever -- destroy a human outright. Instead, he prefers to offer the monkeys temptations and allow them to destroy themselves through their own sins and shortcomings. Lucifer does not lie; he is literally older than the cosmos, and the second most powerful entity in existence. What possible need could he have for deception? However, he has no qualms about bending the truth to suit his purposes, particularly when dealing with such lowly vermin as humanity. For the species as a whole, the Morningstar has only loathing and contempt, but even he will admit that there are some mortals who prove worthy of a modicum of esteem. It is, of course, these exceptions that drive Lucifer to hate the bulk of mankind that much more, for he sees in them a glimmer, perhaps, of what The Maker can see.

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2011, 02:35:15 AM »
Annnnnd here's the IC thread whenever you guys are ready:

http://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=105188.msg4566148#msg4566148

Offline LimitlessNikkie

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Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2011, 04:06:30 AM »
Character Name: Iofiel
Character Type: A Fallen
Affiliation: Evil
Special Abilities (Not normally had by your type or unique to your character):Projecting illusions, spreading discontent and inspiring envy.
Appearance: Iofiel usual appears as a pale girl with dark red hair that seems to glow in the light with silver blue eyes, with large sweeping wings with black feathers that upon closer look have been singed around the edges, but can shift her appearance to become that that the other person finds the most desirable. She is always an example of pure beauty though since her fall her feature are a bit sharper and more defined then the classical innocent beauty so many of the angels have. 
History: Iofiel was the angel of beauty created to help the humans see the beauty of the world their creator had give to them. She protected the three sons of Noah and guarded the tree of knowledge from Adam and Eve and in the end drove them from Eden. Her job was to help the humans see the beauty not only of thier world but in themselves and to draw inspiration from such.

Iofiel was devote but her belief in humanity waned considerably after she had to drive Adam and Eve from her beloved garden of Eden. She love her creator but believed him to be a bit misguided in his love for the beings who needed her guidance just to see the beauty of the world around them. She could not understand why her God would choose such lost creatures above his angels as his chosen race.

When the light bringer started whispering his temptations to the other angels Iofiel like the rest turned from him her faith in the creator still too strong to let her listen to Lucifer but time passed and his words filled her mind. She didn't exactly agree but she saw no other choice, she no longer believed the creator was right and loathed to stand aside and watch as her beloved lord sullied himself for them.

Iofiel eventually joined Lucifer a minor angel in his legion of two hundred to fight against all the angels of heaven. She like the rest was cast out for supporting him and was tossed into the void that would become hell in the eyes of Lucifer. Wearing her burned and blackened wings like a badge of honor Iofiel was never the same after she fell. She never lost her angelic form but she changed the separation from her beloved creator changing her. Hate seeded within her until she could feel nothing but hate and contempt for the things that crawled in the mud that her beloved god chose above her.

She found pleasure in twisting the simple minded being, tempting with the beauty of the world letting them fall victim to their desires, torturing them, tempting them with illusion of what they could never have. She grew cold and cruel a shadow of what she'd once been in paradise. Even her looks shifted to make her look harder, compared to the soft beauty she'd held in heaven.

No one's agenda has held her attention since the last war. She amuses herself most of the time finding distraction is tormenting the humans or serving where she was needed. since Lucifers move against the humans Iofiel had seemed to come to life again. She's been seen walking among the humans more then a few times each time leaving anger, jealousy, envy and desire in her wake. She bread discontent and hate without ever having to draw blood.

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2011, 05:09:41 AM »
I like, welcome :)

Offline Phobetor

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2011, 06:57:36 AM »
Alright I'm going to throw mine up right now =/ I'm still working out a few things with her back-story and stuff but so far this is what I got. I was going to have Cameron check it out first, but I figured I better throw mine up before she gets snatched up! :P

Character Name: Ariel
Character Type: Archangel
Affiliation: Good
Special Abilities (Not normally had by your type or unique to your character): Healer/Protector, Control of all the Elements but Fire.
Appearance:

History:

“Is forgiveness easy, my Lord?” Ariel had asked as she walked with her Creator, looking down at the beings He had given His life to.

“No, Ariel,” He had said solemnly, “But forgiveness is needed. One day you will understand; sometimes things happen that will be out of your control, but trust Me; I have the control.”


War…She knew it would come eventually.

It was Ariel’s firm believe that everything happened for a reason, a purpose in the life all of them led. There were a lot of things out of her control; for example, being locked away in Hell with her brethrens, that was one of them. Hearing the demise of the Humans, that was another. But there was one thing within her control…and that was the belief that their Creator had NOT walked out on them. Something had happened to make God abandon them.

She had to find Him.

In the Heavens, Ariel had always been approached about her Intellect and her vast knowledge held within her heart and mind. She had also been known as the Healer, the one who Protected the Humans when they were sent on missions for their God. She had raised people from the dead, visited their dreams to give them warning…and had given them power over the elements when they needed it the most. It was what her God had commanded; and so she did it. She did not look down at the Humans with disgust, but with the same love and patience that He had shown them. After all, if they had been Created in His image, then it meant that He saw something worthy in them, didn't it? And Ariel was not one to question her Creator. Not like Lucifer had been.

When she had first heard the rumors of Lucifer uprising against their Creator, she hadn’t been shocked…she had been sad. How could he do that when He had done so much for them? He had given them life…and Lucifer was spiting on His honor. She had shunned him; when he had come to speak to her, she had ignored him. When he had tried tempting her, she had rebuked him. And God had favored her; had known she was not going to fall like the others. She had been worthy in His eyes. It had been her hope that Lucifer would have stopped the madness, would simply allow Him to do as He pleased and not question Him any longer. But it hadn't stopped; it had gotten worse. So much so that before they had known of his intention, Lucifer had rained down a battle within the Heavens...and he had taken many of their kind until he had been cast out.

And yet...here she was…fallen. Whether by force or voluntary, Ariel found herself in Hell, with her Brothers, wondering what was to happen to their existence. Lucifer wouldn’t dare kill them, she knew he would not. A misguided creature he was, but he was not going to slay the ones he had loved…he still loved. She had been questioned, she had been bribed and even tortured so that she could join their side, but Ariel had not spoken one word. She had not said anything, even when they had brought tears to her eyes, she hadn't cried out. She wouldn't speak to the ones she had loved before; just looked at Lucifer and Azazel in silence and let them see the pity in her eyes. She did pity them; their ignorance, their selfishness.

And the one person who had made hell tolerable...had been slain. There were whispers between the Brothers that Azrael had escaped; that he had found some way to escape Hell and would come and save them. But Ariel knew that wasn't true; if Azrael had escaped then he would not  bother to save them, he would do what God had created him to do and would bring Death down to those who deserved it. But...she knew he hadn't escaped. For she had heard from Azazel's very own lips, that Azrael was dead. The tears that had spilled down her cheeks had been without sound, the grief in her eyes obvious. She had loved him, favored him a bit more than her other Brothers...and he was dead.

Now Ariel had to get out; she had to finish what Lucifer had started.


(If there is anything on my background that you guys don't agree with (like Lucifer, Azazel or Azrael) then let me know and I'll make the corrections! :-) )

Offline Joslyn

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2011, 07:30:00 AM »
I have some general questions and concerns about the game as it is shaping up so far. As a disclaimer, please keep in mind that I am only talking about the fictional theology of the game itself, not anything in real life.

- Is this a collaborative game or is the GM going to be running it and providing settings/plot events/deciding results of actions/etc. ?

- I have a big problem with the whole "free will" theme, and I think we should lose it entirely. Any definition by which humans have free will, angels have it as well--after all, they all chose whether or not to rebel against God in the first place. Thus there's nothing special about humans compared to angels, other than maybe the fact that they reproduce.

- I was really hoping we weren't going to be using most of the Christian mythology so literally due to the concerns it introduces:

The Adam and Eve story (which I noticed Iofiel's background mentions while Lucifer's seems to skip in favor of theistic evolution. IMO we are better served by the latter) is pretty warped aesop--you've got something called the "tree of knowledge" which is supposed to be a bad thing?

Noah's arc, exodus, and a lot of other stories has God killing a bunch of innocent people for no good reason--we should probably rule these out of the canon of the game or else God would be an evil character.

The Jesus story doesn't really work in the context of this game, as we already agreed previously to throw out the Old Testament-style brutality Jesus supposedly overturned. This story would make more sense if it was about God trying to understand his creations better by "walking a mile in their shoes," so to speak.

Also, we should probably lose the idea that God is so egomanical that he wants his creations to worship him. In my opinion that should be a character flaw reserved for Lucifer and his followers. Maybe we could expand on this idea--maybe humans were created by God as a test for the angels of their humility, to see if they would treat intelligent creatures with less power as equals?

Finally, there's a clear disconnect between the time after the invasion--when there is very obvious proof of God, angels and demons existing--and the time before the invasion where that's not really the case. We really should not imply faith is a virtue in a setting where none is required in the first place. My character does not have "faith" that angels exist, she sees empirical evidence of it five times before breakfast.

Offline Kate

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2011, 07:50:05 AM »
hmm Joslyn does have a point.

My first post does toys with a Christian's sense of right ..

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2011, 07:53:30 AM »
I definitely appreciate the comments and suggestions, however keep in mind it is a game and not every little minute detail has to fit in with other aspects of the mythology.

I intend this to be more of a group effort, I don't like controlling the entire thing myself and I think it would be more enjoyable if everyone had a hand in the shaping process. Of course I will control a few things that I'll mention as we go along and handle final decisions on things, but I don't want this to be a strict type of game where everyone is too afraid of stepping on someone's toes.

Really the free will issue is kind of pointless to me to even debate, 'free will' can be classified in so many different ways, but I think in this particular instance it has more to do with the wide emotional range that humans have compared to angels who are supposed to be less emotional, my thoughts anyways.

Once again I think the Adam and Even, Tree of Knowledge, etc, etc, is another pointless thing to debate simply for the fact that it would have no relevance to the current story considering that was events that would have happened long before. This is basically a mashup of several different versions of the mythology, so yeah there'll be a few inconsistencies, but it's nothing that's going to disrupt the game itself. Not to mention the Noah's Arc story along with many others that I remember from my church days as a kid, wasn't God killing for no reason it was because of the sinful nature of humanity in those situations and how they'd been corrupted. Atleast that's how I remember it.

That would be a better way to think of the Jesus situation, but once again rather pointless considering it has nothing to do with what's happening now.

And in my opinion, God is egotistical, it's littered throughout the Bible about how we must worship Him in like a billion different ways, pretty sure he wants worship lol, not to mention this game is revolving around the story that God has simply vanished, so he'll probably have very little influence/direct contact with any of the characters and that wouldn't even be until it gets closer to conclusion. He's basically more or less tipping the first domino and watching the rest fall, it's like he's reached the stage in parenthood where he's allowing his creations to walk on their own feet, clean up their own messes. This is basically a test on humans and angles alike to see how they fare on their own.

Obviously the humans would no longer have need for faith when living proof is at their doorstep, but there would still be need for faith in God himself, considering most people think he abandoned them or doesn't care. So yeah the faith would have more or less shifted from believing in his existence to believing in his love if that makes any sense.

And I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or anything, please don't take it that way if it comes across like that, it's almost 8 a.m. and I had a wonderful insomnia-filled night of no sleeping :/ lol but this isn't final, I'm still open to discussion, I just think we should focus on less trivial matters.

Offline Phobetor

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2011, 08:10:10 AM »
Question:

Are we going to have different Thread for different locations? (Heaven / Hell / Earth) OR are we just going to use the one thread for everything? AND is there going to be an OOC thread...or are we just sorta going to use this as an OOC thread? :-)

Okay off to work!
Ya'll have a good one!

Offline Cameron182Topic starter

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2011, 08:18:42 AM »
I just figured we'd use this as the OOC thread, and I don't really see a need for multiple threads yet unless you guys feel we should have them.

Offline Joslyn

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2011, 09:24:28 AM »
I hope I'm not being difficult, but I don't think history and character backgrounds are trivial--they directly inform the character's motivation and personality. That in turn defines the very nature of the conflict--why Lucifer wants to destroy humanity, what motivations his followers might have, and so forth. I’m actually much more concerned about stepping on other people’s toes if these things are not defined ahead of time.

Good and evil need to be very clearly explained in a story of this nature. As an example, I don't see my character as someone who worships God--she is just someone who wants humanity to survive and follows her own ethical rules. If we judge her by a standard where only obvious things like murder and rape are sins, then she can be considered good. But if being impious is a sin, she suddenly has a fatal flaw that prevents her from being considered good. If on the other hand being impious isn't a sin, then God is a bad guy due to punishing people for it all throughout history. And if we say God has never punished people for being impious in this setting, then really we have throw out or alter almost all of the biblical history. The Egyptians in Exodus weren't tortured and killed because they were a giant pack of rapists and murderers--they were punished because their pharaoh didn't believe in God's power.

This is important because, sooner or later, the characters in the game are going to mention events that happened in the past--then you'll have to suddenly arbitrate who has the correct version of the past if there is a conflict. I think it will be much less upsetting to the players if these conflicts are resolved before the game begins rather than down the road when everyone is more heavily invested in their idea of who their character is and what makes him/her tick.

As an example--we have to assume that Lucifer will still be trying to convince the arch-angels to join his side. He'll also try to tempt mortals. He's obviously going to try to point out what he considers examples of God's poor judgment or hypocrisy. But what examples does he use if we don't even have a clear history of what happened? Are any of his grievances legitimate?

Please keep in mind, I’m just bringing all this up because I want this game to be as enjoyable and interesting as possible. We can’t really deal with complex themes like temptation, redemption, the nature of good and evil, and so forth if we don’t know exactly why our characters are good or evil in the first place.

(btw, we should probably make an OOC thread pretty soon, I don’t think we’re allowed to use this forum for that purpose after the game is out of the formative stages)

Offline Starlequin

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2011, 09:50:07 AM »
I believe Joslyn does raise some interesting points, some that I clearly overlooked in my literary zeal to create a fitting villain. Bad source of all evil! No cookie for me! So after a few minutes of debate, I think I've come up with a  plan that will satisfy everyone. I say...

Imma go have a bowl of cereal, and then I'll be back to tackle these ages-old philosophical conundrums.   :D

*munches on a cookie*...what? I'm evil, 'member?

BTW, nice intro posts, Kate and Cameron. And yeah, an OOC thread is definitely a must have. We love us some OOC goodness.

Offline Kate

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2011, 09:56:28 AM »
a dedicated ooc thread is pretty justified i think (best if it is linked in the other fist posts of other threads) otherwise this is always at the top of a group interest...

we should really free up the group area for what it was designed for

Offline Starlequin

Re: EX: Remnants of Heaven (Angels Vs Demons Interest Check)
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2011, 11:03:08 AM »
*cracks knuckles* Alright! Had mah cereal, and am now ready to lift the veil on popular theological enigmas.

First off, the nebulous issue of 'Free Will'. This can be dealt with most easily if we first define the concept in a more narrow frame, and this is what I suggest: Free Will refers only to the ability to choose whether to love God, or deny him. For the angels, this is impossible; all angels, both good and evil, have no choice but to love God with all their being, as it is literally a part of their nature. They cannot help but love God anymore than mortals can help breathing. Humans, on the other hand, do have this power to willingly give themselves over to God (and the easiest form of this would be worship, but not the only means) or to refuse to do so.

Secondly, as far as biblical history vs theistic evolution, I don't think it should be too hard to reconcile the two. One of us can introduce elements through conversation or flashback scenes indicating that the two are largely one and the same, but have become warped and distinctive through overuse of metaphor, poorly translated history texts, inaccurate oral histories, etc. Concerning the violent God of the Old Testament, that's easy enough to handle, I think; could we not simply agree that all the violence and slaughter attributed to God was, in fact, simply perpetrated by men who sought to wipe out their political or ideological opponents and used the old 'God told me to do it' defense to justify their actions, or natural disasters as appropriate?

Concerning Jesus, I believe I actually addressed that issue in Lucifer's history when I wrote that God 'went down among the humans and lived as one of them,' to teach and inspire them personally in a way they could better relate to.

As for desiring worship, if we look at this in the terms that Cameron has already pointed out, e.g. God as a parent who is stepping back from his children and letting them learn to stand on their own, I don't think it would be worship He would be after so much as simply the love of his children, like any parent would want. His oldest children (angels) want to please their father, but aren't sure how, and his youngest children (humans) are still more concerned with their own gratification than their father's approval.

The idea of worship supplanting love could be attributed to a few loud-mouthed or prolific zealots spreading the wrong idea through history. It's not that God is a poor father or an immoral creator, and it's not even that angels and humans are bad children; it's just that we're young, and still don't entirely understand what our father wants from us, but if we can learn to stop murdering each other (fighting over our toys, lol) maybe we can grow up enough to find out.

As for faith, I don't think faith has become entirely obsolete, merely that its necessity has shifted directions. Cameron touched on it, I think: we don't need faith to believe that God exists anymore, but we still need faith that He loves us and wants what's best for us.

The conflicts between character histories, I think, is probably at least partly inevitable, since taking enough time to ensure that all parties' histories mesh would probably mean we'd never have enough time to actually, you know, play. However, I think these could be resolved in-game easily enough, if CSs aren't treated as set in stone.

Now, about 'Good' and 'Evil'. These really aren't as important as you might expect; no matter how we define them, no being, whether mortal, angelic, or demonic, will ever embody only one and none of the other. Even Lucifer could be qualified as 'Good,' because all of his actions stem from one thing: his love for God. Everything he does, he does because he loves God and wants to 'save' Him from Himself, like the domineering oldest son who wants to put his aging father in a nursing home so he'll be properly cared for. Is he evil, or just misguided? The same could be said for many -- if not all -- of the other demons and fallen angels; they misbehaved, their father kicked them out of the house to help them learn, they misbehave more because they want daddy's attention back. 'Good' people are those who love God, make mistakes, and ask forgiveness; 'Evil' people are those who love (or in extreme cases, don't love) God, make mistakes, and don't ask forgiveness.

So, anyway, that's my thoughts on the matter, and I hope they made a smidgen of sense. Probably not my best writing ever, but maybe not too shabby for only bein' awake for two hours, lol.