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Author Topic: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?  (Read 4855 times)

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Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2011, 06:24:50 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, those here more in the know than I, but it sounds like that budget isn't the only thing the parties are fighting over.  A lot of the articles I've read have had disagreements over something dealing with abortion?

Abortion is one of those issues where it's really hard for us non-Americans to get how it can sail as a big issue in every election, more than thirty years after the Supreme Court decided that such state laws as would be used for wholesale blocking of women being reasonably free to choose abortion, that such laws were unconstitutional. Absolutely nobody in England, Holland or Germany, except for fringe parties, would mount an attempt to potentially block abortions as a first-rate issue in an election race. Same with gay marriage I think; even where it doesn't exist yet it wouldn't become the defining issue of an election, or the point you try to use to jackhammer the government out of office when it's entered.

Online ReijiTabibito

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2011, 06:37:30 PM »
Abortion is one of those issues where it's really hard for us non-Americans to get how it can sail as a big issue in every election, more than thirty years after the Supreme Court decided that such state laws as would be used for wholesale blocking of women being reasonably free to choose abortion, that such laws were unconstitutional. Absolutely nobody in England, Holland or Germany, except for fringe parties, would mount an attempt to potentially block abortions as a first-rate issue in an election race. Same with gay marriage I think; even where it doesn't exist yet it wouldn't become the defining issue of an election, or the point you try to use to jackhammer the government out of office when it's entered.

Because here in America we've got two things.  1: a religious right that still has plenty of influence, especially due to the fact that they can shout louder than most special interest groups.  2: no shortage of intolerance.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that over in Europe (which is where it sounds like you live), religion doesn't have a whole lot to do with government and who gets elected and whatnot.  Over here, being a WASP is practically one of the requirements for being a Republican candidate.  You have to go to church and believe and God and in the Bible and all that.  Religion is very much a part of the Republican party.

Part of the problem, I think personally, is that the Christians and whatnot look at abortion, and say that, no, we can't just morally disapprove of it, we can't just say that it's wrong and goes against the ethical principles of our religion.  No.  It has to go away.  It has to die.  Because we've got some moral imperative to keep society on the right track and from going straight into hell.

This coming from the same religion that protected sexual deviants (according to their own tenets) for generations, told people that they could get into heaven if they spent enough money on pieces of paper, and started wars over a piece of earth that is still contested today.

Never mind that, in the book of Revelation, the entire world goes to hell anyway.  It's prophecy!  You believe that it is going to happen!  What makes you think you can stop it?

...

>_<  Some days I'm ashamed of my own people.

Offline Ironwolf85

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2011, 08:15:48 PM »
i don't think it'll shut down, and the VA and army are immune to these cuts, with good reason.
they will reach a compremise.. it's the way government works

Offline Oniya

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2011, 08:21:50 PM »
It's shut down before - two times, one after the other, back in 1995.  It's happened before, and so I don't doubt that it could happen again.

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2011, 08:23:12 PM »
If I vaguely remember, though, wasn't that around the time Clinton's Lewinsky scandal started?  Or am I misremembering things again?

Offline Oniya

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2011, 08:38:04 PM »
She was hired in 1995, but the Linda Tripp tape (the one that got delivered to Ken Starr after Lewinsky had signed an affidavit denying an affair) didn't surface until 1998.

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2011, 08:39:11 PM »
Okay.  So that couldn't have been a factor in the shutdown.  I'll keep that part of my comments to myself, then.

Offline Wyrd

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2011, 08:52:53 PM »
Wait.... In the US, the government shuts down if their is some disagreement over the budget? Well that... What?

Offline Oniya

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2011, 08:53:19 PM »
No, it pretty much followed the same sequence that this one is - Congress was controlled by the opposing party, and the two factions (Executive and Legislative) couldn't come to an agreement on spending.  Clinton didn't approve the cuts that Congress wanted, Congress threatened to refuse to raise the debt limit, which would have put the US in default unless the Treasury suspended funding to certain parts of the government.

Things that got shut down:
  • Health and welfare services for military veterans were curtailed
  • the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped disease surveillance
  • new clinical research patients were not accepted at the National Institutes of Health
  • toxic waste clean-up work at 609 sites was halted
  • The closure of 368 National Park sites resulted in the loss of some seven million visitors
  • 200,000 applications for passports and 20,000 to 30,000 applications for visas by foreigners went unprocessed each day
  • U.S. tourism and airline industries incurred millions of dollars in losses
  • more than 20% of federal contracts, representing $3.7 billion in spending, were affected adversely.

The last bullet point is the one that would affect me specifically, as the work I do is on an EPA contract, and I'm not cleared for receiving other materials to work on at home.  (and the office is 3-4 states away)

Offline Belle33

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2011, 10:29:23 PM »
The shutdown has been averted - thank goodness.  I wish they would not play chicken like this and get on with the business of managing this country.  There is far too much happening in the world for the US to be bogged down in budget battles.  That said - I'm worried that the details are revealed, a lot of people on the left will be highly pissed off at all the sacrifices one side is making. 

Offline elone

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2011, 11:15:11 PM »
The shutdown has been averted - thank goodness.  I wish they would not play chicken like this and get on with the business of managing this country.  There is far too much happening in the world for the US to be bogged down in budget battles.  That said - I'm worried that the details are revealed, a lot of people on the left will be highly pissed off at all the sacrifices one side is making.

I am one of those on the left who is worried about the details. It is criminal the one side seeks to legislate morality by holding the budget hostage. Make that the nation hostage. That seems to be the way of politics in this country. Whatever happened to by the people, for the people. They don't give a damn about the people, unless they are rich, powerful, or able to help them get reelected. That is just the way it is. There is always the attempt to privatize everything on the belief that everyone can do it better and cheaper than the government.  The only way a for profit corporation can do it cheaper is by cutting services.  Unfortunately the Government is too depending on special interests to act in our interest.

Maybe we should privatize congress.

Offline Zakharra

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2011, 10:27:09 AM »
I am one of those on the left who is worried about the details. It is criminal the one side seeks to legislate morality by holding the budget hostage. Make that the nation hostage. That seems to be the way of politics in this country. Whatever happened to by the people, for the people. They don't give a damn about the people, unless they are rich, powerful, or able to help them get reelected. That is just the way it is. There is always the attempt to privatize everything on the belief that everyone can do it better and cheaper than the government.  The only way a for profit corporation can do it cheaper is by cutting services.  Unfortunately the Government is too depending on special interests to act in our interest.

Maybe we should privatize congress.

 I do not like alot of what Congress and the government does (President included), I think all of them should be thrown out on their butts. Personally, I think they should be flogged with a real cat 0 ninetails/flail/flog when they are caught lying and breaking promises. Nothing like having the skin off your back flayed off once to focus your mind and make you do what you promised in the campaign, but that's another subject.  I basically all of them are pretty much useless.

 Washington DC needs a workover badly, but to provatize the Legislative branch, or even the Executive and Judicial? Hell no. That would be very very bad news for the US.

Offline Belle33

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2011, 01:26:26 PM »
I am one of those on the left who is worried about the details. It is criminal the one side seeks to legislate morality by holding the budget hostage. Make that the nation hostage. That seems to be the way of politics in this country. Whatever happened to by the people, for the people. They don't give a damn about the people, unless they are rich, powerful, or able to help them get reelected. That is just the way it is. There is always the attempt to privatize everything on the belief that everyone can do it better and cheaper than the government.  The only way a for profit corporation can do it cheaper is by cutting services.  Unfortunately the Government is too depending on special interests to act in our interest.

Maybe we should privatize congress.

I feel your frustration - and I'm right there with you.  Your sentiments are well said.  But I think Congress is well on it's way to being privatized, with all of the corporate money being spent on candidates.  The Koch brothers control at least half the tea party candidates in office.

Offline Oniya

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Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2011, 01:32:24 PM »
I feel your frustration - and I'm right there with you.  Your sentiments are well said.  But I think Congress is well on it's way to being privatized, with all of the corporate money being spent on candidates.  The Koch brothers control at least half the tea party candidates in office.

That's exactly why we should stop it from being privatized.  The Koch brothers do not have the interests of the American People in mind - they have their own interests in mind.  Things have to change.  People - and that means the American public: the average guy in the street - need to get in there and speak up.  If a candidate doesn't do what you want, vote 'em out next time.  We are the people that candidates should see as being able to get them reelected, and they need to know that there will be consequences if they renege on the promises that they use to get into office.

Offline Vekseid

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2011, 01:43:46 PM »
History seems to show that there's actually a very limited window of time between when a crisis begins and a demagogue can take advantage of it and seize power in a democracy.

Very, very few Americans like the amount of power corporations have. It peaks at something like 29% even among Republicans.

I think it's only a matter of time, really. Hundreds of thousands of people are getting shocking revelations each year, and the corporate wing is not exactly winning over this nation's youth.

Offline elone

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2011, 02:50:14 PM »
My previous comment on privatizing congress was meant to be a little tongue in cheek.  But now that I think about it Belle is right. It is already privatized, certainly not a true democratic government anymore.  I should say republic.

Offline Yorubi

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2011, 08:44:58 PM »
Don't worry, the people responsible for the shutdown will still get all their benefits and pay that they don't even need for most of the members.

The few pretty much dictate the many and get what they want and not what the people want. If only we had our own revolution in the US to over-throw the government and put democracy back in its place.  Corporations are organized greed by its making and the only way to control it is through regulations. You can let them thrive still you can't let them run the country. I mean what was the term

Trickle down economics... I mean when people say that, is it not just me who feels like that very phrase seems rather unfair? Last I seen a trickle is barely anything while the thing actually holding all that 'water' has just such ridiculous sums.

I just really hate how people are so ignorant out there. If people actually opened their eyes rather then keep themselves blind, they will realize that a lot of what they are told are just either tiny pieces or full out lies.

Offline Serephino

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2011, 09:00:34 PM »
I'm glad the shutdown was avoided, but it should have never gotten that close.  Republicans are bullies that used frustration to seize power.  They held unemployment benefits hostage to get the tax cuts for the wealthy renewed.  Why wouldn't they hold government function hostage to get the budget they want?  That's what they do. 

And the budget they have written up for next year is even scarier.  What's in it hasn't been completely revealed, but it's been said in interviews that they want to make trillions more in cuts.  I even read somewhere that they want to get rid of Medicare in 10 years, instead, giving eligible people vouchers they can use to help buy private insurance.  Of course, the vouchers won't be nearly enough to cover the premiums, so the people on very fixed incomes would have to pay the difference.  Is it any wonder why I didn't want to take Medicare when I was eligible?  But because Part A is mandatory, I don't have much of a choice.  Most private insurers won't take me, and even if they will, they want an obscene amount for the initial payment. 


Offline Lyell

Re: The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2011, 09:53:31 PM »
I agree that the house is broken. Anytime the hours or senate is so imbalanced that one side can smirk at the other and say "deal with it," something is horribly wrong.

But to assign blame solely to the republican house representatives is a little short sighted. Republican voters who put them there, favoring the campaign on spending cuts are part of the issue. The continuing resolutions and avoiding spending time on an actual budget also contributed. Riders from both sides also served to obstruct any progress in the months leading up to the shutdown threat.