WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[wander]

Fair point. ^^

The new High Elf stuff is coming in to Age of Sigmar really soon, it's already mostly sold out even... I dabbled with dark elves early on, I'm hoping the Exile Aelves get shown some love, I was much upset at the retiring of their Bolt Thrower and straight awesome characters such as Hellebron. My friend is in love with the Sylvaneth models and I'd love to get my hands on some sexy Exile resin kits.

[Silk]

Well you can look to the Silver tower characters like Mistweaver Siah for the potential direction the aelves are gonna take

[Lustful Bride]

Dark Times are coming... Cadia has Fallen.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uehKu7g_uLc

Now this I seriously want to see in a group game. The Desperate month long or so defense of Cadia as it is enveloped by a Black Crusade led by Abbadon. And then perhaps following the IG after the fall, trying to regroup and keep the system under some measure of Imperial control, salvaging this horrible mess and trying to desperately buy more time for the rest of the Imperium to survive and adjust to this critical loss.

It could follow warriors from different I.G. units (possibly there for cross unit training so people could play Karskins, Tallarn, Vostroyans, Mordians, etc. or make up their own fanon ones) fighting side by side in a hopeless battle as the forces of chaos come to wipe them all out.

Fighting building by building, and street by street as they are pushed back on many fronts, any victories they manage to claw out of this only serve to delay the inevitable destruction. But as Guardsman (and possible others) we will make Chaos pay dearly for every single footstep they take on our world.

Cadia may be lost, but we are not!

[HairyHeretic]

Technically Cadia was effectively lost after the 13th Black Crusade worldwide campaign, years ago. Two planets in the system completely destroyed, if I remember correctly, almost all the others under Chaos control, and Cadia itself disputed.

Good times :)

I've read the high points of the story that plays out in that book online though. It's ... interesting. Would probably make for a good game, but I suspect you'd need a lot of replacement characters over the course of it.

[Lustful Bride]

Technically Cadia was effectively lost after the 13th Black Crusade worldwide campaign, years ago. Two planets in the system completely destroyed, if I remember correctly, almost all the others under Chaos control, and Cadia itself disputed.

Good times :)

I've read the high points of the story that plays out in that book online though. It's ... interesting. Would probably make for a good game, but I suspect you'd need a lot of replacement characters over the course of it.

Hhmmmmm that actually does sound like fun.  in the X-com/ Dark souls method of fun of kicking you in the face and you wanting more because of the challenge. 

[wander]

Anyone else have Only War, the Imperial Guard rpg book where you play as a squad of Guardsmen in a specific regiment (the canon ones are included in the book though you can create your own, plus you can even have a tank or Sentinel in the squad, basically playing Kill Team as an rpg)?

I agree with Lustful that the story of Cadia would be great backstory for an Only War game, even if just for a one-shot.

Hairy, I heard that Chaos' victory was minor, as GW had to pull a load of ass-pulls to make sure the forces of the Imperium didn't curb-stomp the Crusade. Though it seems the Battlefleet Gothic games back then were causing more of a thorn for Chaos than the ground battles. Though to be fair this is all what I've heard, I was away at Uni and not involved at the hobby at the time of the Eye of Terror campaign...

[TheGlyphstone]

Here we go again... ;D

(HH was apparently deeply involved in the coordination efforts for Disorder in EoT. He cares. :D)

[Lustful Bride]

Oh yes...a lot of asspulling it seems.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f8uX51CFwY

[HairyHeretic]

Hairy, I heard that Chaos' victory was minor, as GW had to pull a load of ass-pulls to make sure the forces of the Imperium didn't curb-stomp the Crusade. Though it seems the Battlefleet Gothic games back then were causing more of a thorn for Chaos than the ground battles. Though to be fair this is all what I've heard, I was away at Uni and not involved at the hobby at the time of the Eye of Terror campaign...

Other way around actually. Some of the Chaos players figured out the mechanics that caused massive control shifts in the different systems, and used that, along with coordinated strike groups to stomp all over the Imperial forces for about 3/4s of the campaign.

GW figured that the larger number of Imperial players, and equal ability on each side, would mean they'd be able to dictate the story line as an Imperial victory, and status quo maintained.

Diiiiiiiiiidn't quite go according to plan ;)

Here we go again... ;D

(HH was apparently deeply involved in the coordination efforts for Disorder in EoT. He cares. :D)

For 10,000 years I have fought the Long War, and my hate sustains me. Death to the False Emperor! Ave Dominus Nox!  :P

And wasn't involved in the coordination, though I was part of the Legion of the Triad strike force.

Plus I interviewed the Triad (the guys who worked out the mechanics and coordinated things) for a 40k WebZine shortly after the EoT wrapped up.

[Lustful Bride]

I actually made a little thread, in case anyone is interested in holding the Cadia Gate.

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=261697.0

[HairyHeretic]

I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm setting up one system game atm and bringing people into another, so a lot on my plate.

[HairyHeretic]

If anyone is curious, this is the thread I found where someone went through the story of the Fall of Cadia book

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/713961.page

It goes without saying, but SPOILERS :)

If you want to see what the canon version is, free free to go read. I'd suggest any discussions of it, we might want to move elsewhere, to prevent spoilers for those that don't want them.

[terranspirit]

I haven't done any Roleplaying game, but WH40K is alright, yeah.
The creators are rather full of themselves, and the literature is dark to an almost comical standard.
It  IS one of those series where different authors write different books, so you might not like one,
due to the author rather than content.

I've never really noticed much in character dynamics, with most of them seeing rather....plain. Granted,
I've only read a few of the books and know a little bit of the lore.

All of WH-40k smacks of over powered and god like killing machines, and its only a matter of time
before the Creators write themselves into a corner.

[HairyHeretic]

Given how many authors, series and books there are, you may have something of a narrow view there, particularly if you've picked up something by one of the poorer authors. If you haven't read them, try Dan Abnetts Inquisition books, for a look at something other than Marines. The Ciaphas Cain ones are good for a laugh, and I have a particular fondness for the Night Lord trilogy by ADB. The Horus Heresy series is pretty decent overall, though some books are obviously weaker than others when the series is up to around 40 books at this point.

What have you read so far?

[terranspirit]

Given how many authors, series and books there are, you may have something of a narrow view there, particularly if you've picked up something by one of the poorer authors. If you haven't read them, try Dan Abnetts Inquisition books, for a look at something other than Marines. The Ciaphas Cain ones are good for a laugh, and I have a particular fondness for the Night Lord trilogy by ADB. The Horus Heresy series is pretty decent overall, though some books are obviously weaker than others when the series is up to around 40 books at this point.

What have you read so far?

Oh it's been so long ago, I can barely remember what it was I read. I tried to get into some of the Horus heresy stuff, but couldn't quite get sucked in. I fully admit that I've only gotten a sliver of experience with the lore and literature. LOVE the games though.

The one book a read full and through was a Space Wolves novel about an archeologist/historion who gets accepted by a bunch of Space Wolves and serves as their story archiver for their unit. It was very good and I enjoyed that one, as it was interesting to see the story of
Space Marines told from the perspective of a human. I forget the author and title, but I think it might have been Pre-heresy. I think. Don't quote me on that.

I'm back logged on novella to read. I still have another 10 patrick O'brian novel to work through, but I'll put some of your suggestions on my
list. :)

[Lustful Bride]

Oh it's been so long ago, I can barely remember what it was I read. I tried to get into some of the Horus heresy stuff, but couldn't quite get sucked in. I fully admit that I've only gotten a sliver of experience with the lore and literature. LOVE the games though.

The one book a read full and through was a Space Wolves novel about an archeologist/historion who gets accepted by a bunch of Space Wolves and serves as their story archiver for their unit. It was very good and I enjoyed that one, as it was interesting to see the story of
Space Marines told from the perspective of a human. I forget the author and title, but I think it might have been Pre-heresy. I think. Don't quote me on that.

I'm back logged on novella to read. I still have another 10 patrick O'brian novel to work through, but I'll put some of your suggestions on my
list. :)

I recommend watching the Text to Speech series as it goes over a lot of lore in the 40k universe while also making fun of it.

First episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYrTCGKyrU

[TheLaughingOne]

I've found most of the books i like were written by some of the lesser known authors, like Henry Wu who did Blood and Iron, Blood Gorgons, and Emperors Mercy, all of which are excellent and tied together to some extent...

The Dark heresy novels were good in the interaction between characters and how they lived in the world, especially good insight to how an inquisitors acolytes might function.

fifteen hours is an excellent small story of a new guard whos regiment is accidently dropped onto a planet thats been at war with orks for over 100+ years on their first mission, and how for your standard guardsman, life expectancy is about....

For space marines its been a while, but the good ones, like Sons of Dorn, show how while they are the Emperors Angels Of Death, they can still die, they try to cope with hard choices (in mentioned book a captain asks to be allowed to do a penance crusade into the eye of terror after a mistake costs him the lives of 20 marines, 40,000 guardsmen, and over 500,000 civilians, while still winning the war and battle, and while he laments the deaths of his men, They are made to die in His service, where the guards and civilians had prospects of life ahead... granted the guard not so much, but the number lost was unacceptable to him) The best space marine stories work well at humanizing the marines, while showing how in human they are.

Problem is you get people like Mat... *coughs* He who pisses on the fluff,

ITS NAME BURNS US!!!

Matt Ward

who portray space marines as... well. Doom guy. From the 2016 game with god mode on. Especially if they are Ultramarine or Grey Knight. They push it past that "so over the top its funny" into sheer masturbatory levels of writing.. And bad writing at that.

But you want REALLY bad writing and ideas.. C.S Goto. He writes much like a 10 year old plays with action figures smashing them against each other while screaming loud noises..

The entire thing is rather hit and miss as it has about 40 years of history that started out as a rather joking silly game, that has had parts rendered non-canon, random retcons, hundreds of writers with no real unifying thread and a complete and total stagnation of the story until recently..

That said, it is one of the more fun games i've played! In an only war game i played... well. A war boy from Fury Road, who fought in service to "The Immortan Emperor!" It was stupid, it was ridiculous, it was awesome, it was fun, and.. It still kinda fit! I even have a custom figure for him some where ordered from heroforge from when the game first started!!

[HairyHeretic]

The one book a read full and through was a Space Wolves novel about an archeologist/historion who gets accepted by a bunch of Space Wolves and serves as their story archiver for their unit. It was very good and I enjoyed that one, as it was interesting to see the story of
Space Marines told from the perspective of a human. I forget the author and title, but I think it might have been Pre-heresy. I think. Don't quote me on that.

I think that was this one. It sounds about right, and is one of Dan Abnett's. I would say he's probably the best of the 40k authors.

[Pockets]

For 10,000 years I have fought the Long War, and my hate sustains me. Death to the False Emperor! Ave Dominus Nox!  :P

Hail Brother! And let us see Terra and the Corpse Emperor burn!

I actually started in WH40k just before the Eye of Terror Campaign and was having problems because at the time no one was willing to teach me how to play the game, they just enjoyed using me to claim a victory without explaining what I was doing wrong. I was playing Black Legion at the time and I nearly gave up the game because you know, who enjoys having their respective asses handed to them over and over all the time.

Then a guy came in playing Tau and started kicking the hell out of some of the best players in the store. It didn't matter who it was, even if he lost it was usually a Pyrrhic victory. He did this several times before I worked up the nerve to ask him how he did it. So we played a game and it turned out that the first couple of games, people had told me incorrect numbers (what I needed to roll above to  get a hit and wound), my tactics weren't too terribly bad. So we went to a different store where they took WH40K SERIOUSLY. As in money changed hands during tournament play.

While I never won any of the tournaments, getting 4th place and a free 40k mini of my choice as a prize was a real balm on my ego, especially considering how vicious these guys were. But they taught me how to play and they made sure I knew MY Rules. Often having me pull out the core book or the Chaos Codex to review something.

So when I came back to the original store, I calmly asked who wanted to play. I had four people jump at the chance. Let's just say that the Blood Angel Rush of 3rd Ed didn't happen and I curbed stomped the Blood Angels so bad that he never got into assault range. I forced the Necron player to fold by the end of the third round. Stalemated against the Grey Knights. And pasted the Eldar player so bad that he gave up the game for three months (Still feel bad about that).

Finally had some closure just as the Eye of Terror Campaign went live. Needless to say that the forces of Chaos won in that store. And no I wasn't the only Chaos player, but most in that particular location played Imperial forces (IG, various Marine Chapters, Sisters of Battle, Grey Knights, Etc.).

So when the final numbers came down the pipe we were estatic that Chaos had finally broken the back of Cadia.... then they made the announcement that kind of ruined it for me. It showed me that GW was well and truly Imperial to it's boots.

[wander]

I haven't done any Roleplaying game, but WH40K is alright, yeah.
The creators are rather full of themselves, and the literature is dark to an almost comical standard.
It  IS one of those series where different authors write different books, so you might not like one,
due to the author rather than content.

I've never really noticed much in character dynamics, with most of them seeing rather....plain. Granted,
I've only read a few of the books and know a little bit of the lore.

All of WH-40k smacks of over powered and god like killing machines, and its only a matter of time
before the Creators write themselves into a corner.

The funny thing was, the whole thing was a satire at the start, sure it was still somewhat grim though there was a certain dark black comedy to some aspects. However I noticed as years went on through the '90s that writers began to take the setting a bit more seriously and outside of perhaps the Orks (and even they're feeling it now) there was little humour left to be had. Still, there's the Ciaphas Cain novels which is basically 'Blackadder in 40K' and some bits of black comedy do come out through the cracks every now and then...

The Militarum Tempestus codex talks about a group who were sent into battle against Tau, decided to retreat, lost half their men trying to get the rest back to the evac ship... They were then told upon making it back to safety (by gun-point!) to get back out there and reclaim the world from the xenos... Except the Tau had already buggered off... And Imperial command said if they couldn't kill the Tau they couldn't be extracted... They're probably still living on that planet now... ^^;;

Point being, yep it's dark and if something seems comically so, it's probably meant to be. ^^ I know some authors class 40K as Serious Business, I prefer to see it more in the vein of Brazil these days.

I'd probably say the opposite of things being overpowered all over the shop when not taking into consideration the Space Marine examples and fanwank as given by the posters above me (as in where they've mentioned what to avoid). The Imperial Guard come across as Starship Troopers where death is cheap and the meat-grinder has the average expectancy of survival as being 15 hours... If you survive a battle, you're instantly a veteran soldier! ^^;

Anyways, most people will point to Dan Abnett bringing the best writing, however I feel they're where the problem stemmed, at least novel-wise, of the writers taking the setting super-serious. There seems to me, IMO, a sort of lack of being in touch with the setting whilst still having a grip on it's elements... Thats the best way I can describe it.

I will say that Hairy's recommendations are good ones.  :-)

Also; Nice story Pockets.  :-)

[greenknight]

The entire thing is rather hit and miss as it has about 40 years of history that started out as a rather joking silly game, that has had parts rendered non-canon, random retcons, hundreds of writers with no real unifying thread and a complete and total stagnation of the story until recently..

That said, it is one of the more fun games i've played! In an only war game i played... well. A war boy from Fury Road, who fought in service to "The Immortan Emperor!" It was stupid, it was ridiculous, it was awesome, it was fun, and.. It still kinda fit! I even have a custom figure for him some where ordered from heroforge from when the game first started!!

30 year anniversary was last year, but whatever. Nothing is retconned out of existence, that's part of the point. Everything written is canon, especially if it contradicts other canon. Female space marines have been around since Rogue Trader, ie, the full 30 years. There's a specific discussion about them with a near full-page illo of one blowing away a beaky.

And your war boy sounds...MEDIOCRE!

[wander]

Thats the thing, the setting can be read as propaganda too. If one force gives another an uncharacteristic pasting or they're stomping about all Mary Sue-like, you can see that as propaganda by that side to look more awesome than what actually happened...

Everything can be seen as your canon, but not everything is exactly true...

Also nice, greenknight, you made me crack a grin.  ;D

[CopperLily]

30 year anniversary was last year, but whatever. Nothing is retconned out of existence, that's part of the point. Everything written is canon, especially if it contradicts other canon. Female space marines have been around since Rogue Trader, ie, the full 30 years. There's a specific discussion about them with a near full-page illo of one blowing away a beaky.

And your war boy sounds...MEDIOCRE!

The Rogue Trader illustration is of what is pretty clearly a battle sister.

[TheGlyphstone]

The Rogue Trader illustration is of what is pretty clearly a battle sister.

Though Rogue Trader 'Space Marines' were what later editions called the Adeptus Arbites anyways, weren't they?

[HairyHeretic]

No, they were still Marines, but they didn't initially have the whole warrior monk thing going on.