Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)

[Twisted Crow]

Wierd question, maybe... But...

Does anyone know of any stories with the protagonist's mother being the villain of a story?

Edit:

After some thought on these, I am also going to say this doesn't have to be exclusive to the main character. It could be a relationship to a key character in the given story. Darth Mom can also be a step mother or a foster parent (that adopted them). What is important, however, is that that "motherly relationship" existed between the characters, at some point.

Also... this:

I am also reminded of some things in regards to this concept:

For one, this is basically flipping the script on Darth Vader, inspired by the "big reveal" in The Empire Strikes Back.

With that in mind, here are a couple of things that I am reminded of, concerning Vader:

- Darth Vader was as much a victim as he was an antagonist for Luke Skywalker. There was a greater villain controlling him, afterall (The Emperor).

- He even got redemption at the end of his tale by the heel/face change he does in Return of the Jedi.

So in regards to Darth Mom... she doesn't necessarily have to go down (die/lose/etc) as a villain, in the end. And she doesn't have to be the "chief villain", if any of this makes sense.

[Tolvo]

Hercules/Heracles.

[TheGlyphstone]

If stepmothers count, an extensive number of Disney/Grimm fairy tales.

[Tolvo]

Ah yeah I guess if you mean birth mother Hera wouldn't count.

[Mathim]

This might be a spoiler if you haven't seen it but it is about 20 years old at this point; the TV movie The Tenth Kingdom.

Then there's Agents of SHIELD season 2.

[Tolvo]

Undertale.

[Twisted Crow]

I would say stepmothers maybe kinda-sorta... but not quite what I am looking for in my uh... "research" for this. ;)

I feel like it is easier to create the "evil step-mom" as opposed to "No! Not Mom! Anybody but Mom!" The very woman that brought the character into the world being his/her opposite/negative/enemy... just something about that seems like it would hit one in the feels. Being a mama's boy myself... I am sure it would be difficult for me to accept or see my mother in a bad light. So the more of these I can use to do some proverbial homework on, the better.  ^-^

Thanks for the mentions, so far. I should have specified what this is for but I am sure some of you know me enough by now to fill in the blanks.



Although, it kinda gives my idea away... ::)

[RedRose]

The Yearling. Seriously, not really a villain, but I just wanted her to die painfully. While I tend to understand parents or even side with them more as an adult lol that one I still hate.

[Regina Minx]

Margaret White from Carrie
Beth Jarret from Ordinary People
Dori Goldin from More than it Hurts You
Mary's Mother from Precious
Sophie Portnoy from Portnoy's Complaint
Janice Angstrom from Rabbit, Run
Marcus' Mum from About a Boy
Medea from classical mythology
Addie Bundren from As I Lay Dying
Emma Bovary from Madame Bovary
Cathy Ames from East of Eden

[Oniya]

I was going to say 'Mommie Dearest', but Christina Crawford was adopted.

[Tolvo]

There is Mortal Kombat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIt0VY7Yg2w

[Twisted Crow]

^^ Hahaha! That movie, though... ;D

To contribute some that almost fit (but not quite):

In the video game Final Fantasy VIII, Darth Mom almost happens... but more of a near-miss than anything.


Edit: Uh, come to think of it... This is actually very Darth Mom.


Edea appeared to be the villain to the main characters of the story, until it is discovered that things were more than what they appeared. She was more of a victim/puppet for the true villain.) Also, while Edea wasn't the biological mother, she was the only mother her adopted children knew and loved. She practically was their mother in the aspects that mattered. So maybe this can go with  mothers that adopt and even step-mothers. That is, if there is some close past relationship established.

Man, why is the Darth Mom concept so much more difficult than Darth Dad? ::)

Perhaps these examples also do not have to be exclusively for the main character, either. In the Mortal Kombat example, Sindel is Kitana's mother, after all. Can't remember if it is biological or not, but I am going to scrap that. I think what is more important is that that motherly-relationship has be present somewhere.

Another video game example is Final Fantasy IX's Queen Brahne. Totally a Darth Mom, even if she isn't THE villain. So, maybe it doesn't have to be the central antagonist, either. If there are other Darth Moms elsewhere, they might be useful to mention.

Once again, thank you all for sharing these! :-)

[Oniya]

I mean, Norman Bates' mom pretty much made him what he was - but Norm isn't the protagonist in that movie - same with Jason in the Friday the Thirteenth franchise.  (Especially if you've seen the first one.)

[Twisted Crow]

I am also reminded of some things in regards to this concept:

For one, this is basically flipping the script on Darth Vader, inspired by the "big reveal" in The Empire Strikes Back.

With that in mind, here are a couple of things that I am reminded of, concerning Vader:

- Darth Vader was as much a victim as he was an antagonist for Luke Skywalker. There was a greater villain controlling him, afterall (The Emperor).

- He even got redemption at the end of his tale by the heel/face change he does in Return of the Jedi.

So in regards to Darth Mom... she doesn't necessarily have to go down (die/lose/etc) as a villain, in the end. And she doesn't have to be the "chief villain", if any of this makes sense.

I mean, Norman Bates' mom pretty much made him what he was - but Norm isn't the protagonist in that movie - same with Jason in the Friday the Thirteenth franchise.  (Especially if you've seen the first one.)

Whoa, I totally forgot about Jason's Mom!! That actually is an interesting mention for a few other ideas. ;D

[Tolvo]

I dunno that I'd say he was just a victim or got really redeemed. That's how they act, but eventually decided to pick up the emperor and throw him doesn't really make up for supporting genocides and butchering children. You can't just do some of the worst crimes in the galaxy then kill your boss and go "Well I guess I'm good now." He was manipulated but also was a pretty horrible hateful person to start with.

[Twisted Crow]

As far as the details go, perhaps not. In what Lucas tried to do with that character's evolution is more or less what I mean.

Anakin/Vader doesn't have a lot of excuses, as he willingly did the things he did because he wanted to save the woman he loved. The deeds were awful, sure. But he was a victim in the sense that he was manipulated (though, somewhat allowed himself to be). Even if the writing didn't connect well between the prequels and originals, in the end we still see Anakin's force ghost with Yoda and Kenobi on Endor. It is perhaps better to say that he attempted to right his past wrongs in the end, by doing what he should have done years past. I wouldn't say that it would be enough to make him "good" as the movie tries to pull, but I would say redemption in the sense of correcting a past mistake he had made.

So, while I agree that might be sort of hamfisted, retroactively (in the case of Star Wars), it is more the concept that I am okay with for the sake of "Darth Mom". :-)

[TheGlyphstone]

Its a fairly big spoiler, but the Darths and Droids webcomic (Star Wars reinterpreted as the campaigns of a group of gamers) literally does this. Darth Vader is Padme instead of Anakin.

[RedRose]

Oh yes, Bovary… I wanted to hit her seriously. Though we could assume she is more mentally ill, in fact, than mean.

We forgot another classic: Mrs Thénardier. To her sons, especially. She's the ultimate Darth Mom.

[Oniya]

We forgot another classic: Mrs Thénardier. To her sons, especially. She's the ultimate Darth Mom.

Her sons, her daughter - damn near anyone else she comes in contact with...

[Regina Minx]

The first one that came to mind is probably the one I hate the most. Mrs. White, from Carrie. God, what a tall drink of b*tch.

[TheGlyphstone]

FIRE IN THE HOLE!

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilMatriarch

[Tolvo]

Does Abeloth count?

[RedRose]

Her sons, her daughter - damn near anyone else she comes in contact with...

I don't know if it's a spoiler but she

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

sold her two youngest sons, and kicked Gavroche out as a kid, leading at least one of them to die on the barricades...

I don't remember what she did to her daughters?

[Oniya]

Well, Eponine was basically forced into a life of crime after the inn went bankrupt, and Azelma (who is left out of the musical) was instructed to 'punch out a window' to make the family look poorer.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Azelma is also the only one of the Thenardier children to survive the novel.

[RedRose]

I assumed this was the dad's doing… I remember him telling Azelma.
I had to check what happens to Azelma on wiki. I read a horrible, badly written "sequel" to Les Misérables and since then I'm confused...

[Mathim]

^^ Hahaha! That movie, though... ;D

To contribute some that almost fit (but not quite):

In the video game Final Fantasy VIII, Darth Mom almost happens... but more of a near-miss than anything.


Edit: Uh, come to think of it... This is actually very Darth Mom.


Edea appeared to be the villain to the main characters of the story, until it is discovered that things were more than what they appeared. She was more of a victim/puppet for the true villain.) Also, while Edea wasn't the biological mother, she was the only mother her adopted children knew and loved. She practically was their mother in the aspects that mattered. So maybe this can go with  mothers that adopt and even step-mothers. That is, if there is some close past relationship established.

Man, why is the Darth Mom concept so much more difficult than Darth Dad? ::)

Perhaps these examples also do not have to be exclusively for the main character, either. In the Mortal Kombat example, Sindel is Kitana's mother, after all. Can't remember if it is biological or not, but I am going to scrap that. I think what is more important is that that motherly-relationship has be present somewhere.

Another video game example is Final Fantasy IX's Queen Brahne. Totally a Darth Mom, even if she isn't THE villain. So, maybe it doesn't have to be the central antagonist, either. If there are other Darth Moms elsewhere, they might be useful to mention.

Once again, thank you all for sharing these! :-)

Gonna have to really dispute the Final Fantasy VIII bit, and even in FFIX, Brahne wasn't Garnet's real mother either, probably the main reason she was so willing to do that to her as opposed to a biological daughter.

[Twisted Crow]

It is true that the conflicted relationships in those two cases are not exactly mutual. Edea (the gang's 'Matron') isn't exactly herself. And Brahne wasn't Garnet's biological mother. This is true.

However, what is important to me is the relationship within the eyes of the heroes; it is difficult to fight "Mom" because for them, for all intents and purposes, this is their mother that they knew (or thought they knew).

Squall, Selphie, etc. weren't exactly keen on the idea of fighting their matron. Irvine (apparently having a clear memory of everything) seemingly "chokes" in his moment to assassinate the Sorceress. Likely due to the fact that he knew full well he had his "mother" in the cross-hairs. Though, one could argue FFVIII's weakness in its storytelling is that things were perhaps left too 'subtle' in moments like these. But at any rate, whether or not she was herself or "in her right mind" (She was being controlled). They didn't understand any of that. They didn't want to fight Edea, but they had no choice. From Edea's perspective though, she is actually more of a victim that knew her fate would be just that.

In the following game's story: Garnet was repeatedly crushed and torn apart when baring witness to Brahne's warmongering. Even when it became fairly evident that Brahne used her as a stepping stone for conquest, Garnet still wanted to save Brahne from Kuja. Brahne was still very much "Mom" for Garnet in these moments -- regardless of the circumstances or what her 'Mom' might have been feeling at the time.

[Twisted Crow]

^^ A flip version of this... could be Fallout 4, if you are playing as the female character.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

The villain child and protagonist mother could potentially join forces or become enemies. Nora (default name for female protagonist) could be played in a variety of ways. So this isn't exactly a concrete example, but the conflict in not wanting to fight their "evil" child can be expressed at various times through her. All while the "villain child" seems to be indifferent and rather single-minded. Even in his last moments on one of the endings, he doesn't particularly "yield" to mother while Mom can still express pain in not wanting to be against her son.

Erm, as an example... this is somewhat of an inversion of what I described above. But what I am getting at is that those conflicted feelings are still very present in these relationships mentioned. Even if they are somewhat of a 'one-way street'. :-)

FIRE IN THE HOLE!

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilMatriarch

Also, this has been an absolute treat.  My thanks! I figured TVTropes.org had something like this but I never quite know where to look. This has also been helpful.

[Oniya]

Does Jenova count as 'Mom'?

[Mathim]

Does Jenova count as 'Mom'?

She doesn't really have a personality, so I doubt it. One could consider her Sephiroth's mother, and he's totally going along for the ride with her destructive impulses so if anything, it's a mother-son team of villains. If Cloud at any point had any way to be considered Jenova's son due to the infusion, he broke that connection after falling into the Lifestream, and really, Sephiroth was going above and beyond anything Jenova would have been capable of on her own with or without her help.

[Twisted Crow]

Jenova kinda plays with that a bit, but I am with Mathim on that one.

[CaptainNexus616]

I would say Darksiders, Lilth could be considered a 'Darth Mom' as she created the Nephilim which is the race of the Four Horsemen that serve as the protags to the games.

I am kinda sad none her have mentioned some of anime's most infamous mothers.

Medusa Gorgon from Soul Eater. Drove her kid into insanity to make a weapon of chaos.

Then there's Raygo Kiryuin from Kill La Kill.  Not only was she going out of her way to enslave the world to an alien race, but also enjoyed partaking in incest with her own daughters as often as she could.

Then there's Matriarch Benezia from Mass Effect, but that was more of mind control.

Marvel Comics own Carnage Symbiote could fall loosely fall into this category as it asexually gave birth to the more noble Toxin symbiote.

[Ephemeral]

I believe Queen of the Damned is one. Akasha being the mother of all Vampires and such.