Crown Wars (3.P DnD, Forgotten Realms) (recruitment open)

[kckolbe]

Did someone say bard?  /superhero stance

[NicciKotor]

Did someone say bard?  /superhero stance

Gasp! All you want to do is exploit my poor understanding of parties!

[kckolbe]

At first I thought that said panties instead of parties.  Am disappointed now.

[Re Z L]

Gasp! All you want to do is exploit my poor understanding of parties!

But he's a superhero, he'd never exploit someone!

[PaleEnchantress]

Gasp! All you want to do is exploit my poor understanding of parties!

You can always come to my abode. I have such fascinating things to show you...

[kckolbe]

Really?  No one laughed at that?  Fine then.  I present to you the weakest noble in the game.  http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=546000

[NicciKotor]

Really?  No one laughed at that?  Fine then.  I present to you the weakest noble in the game.  http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=546000

Which is why I should comet into your mansion and cause some fires and explosions and more fires.

[RubySlippers]

Heads up I have a bladder infection and won't be on for a few days depending how the treatment goes.

[Anon315]

Which is why I should comet into your mansion and cause some fires and explosions and more fires.

So would you say your Ghaele is... pretty hot? *sunglasses*

[who149]

Question, would I be someone of "Great Renown?"

I missed that when first looking through my leadership scores. And if so I have quiet a few more troops

also how much would a bathhouse cost, as opposed to a bathroom?

[Re Z L]

Heads up I have a bladder infection and won't be on for a few days depending how the treatment goes.

Icky :-(

Feel better soon!

[Zaer Darkwail]

Oh! I hope it gets treated well Ruby :(.

Anyways OOC thread is in Here and also updated first page with Hathran PrC changes (was quite bit and I think the class may be quite OP so feedback is welcome, I mostly aimed for flavors regarding spellcasting prowess and feys and bit localization to powers so that hathran is damn scary in home turf but less scary outside of it).

Question, would I be someone of "Great Renown?"

I missed that when first looking through my leadership scores. And if so I have quiet a few more troops

also how much would a bathhouse cost, as opposed to a bathroom?

All spellcaster nobles gain +1 to leadership for having 'unique power'. Great Renown is not yet in place but may come during the war.

[Kolbrandr]

That's ahm, yeah, a pretty hefty prestige class. All that and magical circles of amping?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, circle feature alone would be darn powerful but it asks preparation. But in case if you missed it you can literally shut down the PrC features if person mistakenly takes willingly hold on cold iron item. Or steal or destroy her acorn and shut down all spellcasting for 1d6 days.

So big power but also critical weakness also which could be exploited.

[Kolbrandr]

yyeah but it's not really /that/ hard to get around, or likely to be especially known from. Just guard your crap extra strenuously and don't take hold of cold iron. If nothing else, adding caster level bonuses to a prc that gets full caster level progression is itself a bit much.

[Kolbrandr]

And that at 7th level the terrain restriction becomes meaningless.. oof. This isn't really a campaign where it's hard to be somewhere where plant life is in ten miles to announce as being your domain. And as long as you have some fey about you..

[Zaer Darkwail]

Red wizard and hathran both were full caster PrC's in 3.5 edition and they reach to cap of 40 CL with the circle (and able use metamagic stuff freely on even 9th level spells). But it asks forming the ritual, which lasts what I remember hours to pull off and needing NPC's or allies who can dump lot of spells on you grow your power up.

In 3.5 edition there was no crippling weakness like acorn nor cold iron stuff. As hathran you lost PrC if you picked item creation feat. Also if PC pisses off the sisterhood, she would get no sisterhood members joining her circle.

I just added other features in so char is useful outside the circle stuff which is meant to be saved on bigger epic fights.

And that at 7th level the terrain restriction becomes meaningless.. oof. This isn't really a campaign where it's hard to be somewhere where plant life is in ten miles to announce as being your domain. And as long as you have some fey about you..

A wild untamed wilderness note. No buildings anykind. So even if elves build cities into woods much of the woods has done some agriculture by the elves. So finding pure wild untamed wilderness is on borders. Also the Fey Domain is meant for stronghold situations (meaning if you go come to them then they have advantage). Circle magic is not related to anyway to wilderness though (Fey magic feature is).

[Kolbrandr]

Yeah, and a lot of 3.5 stuff was wildly imbalanced and overpowered, is what I'm saying.

The weakness is really not that crippling, being mostly cautious and guarding your stuff should prevent it from coming up, along with the "do people even know about it especially".

It gets hexes, full caster progression, bonus familliar powers, unlike many arcane prcs it adds to your total level for your familiar, increased caster levels for a variety of useful and powerful spells, and all the domain thing requires is that there are fey and natural plant life within the pretty big area as it is currently worded, several druid powers, a leadership bonus to help land a more potent cohort, the ability to be part of apparently amping caster level all the way to 40...

I can't think of any arcane PrC in pathfinder that's anywhere that good off hand, even the ones that permanently damn your soul for taking them. I guess the Godling PrC from Super Genius Games, though I can't recall if it actually increases your caster progression.

[PaleEnchantress]

Yeah, and a lot of 3.5 stuff was wildly imbalanced and overpowered, is what I'm saying.

The weakness is really not that crippling, being mostly cautious and guarding your stuff should prevent it from coming up, along with the "do people even know about it especially".

It gets hexes, full caster progression, bonus familliar powers, unlike many arcane prcs it adds to your total level for your familiar, increased caster levels for a variety of useful and powerful spells, and all the domain thing requires is that there are fey and natural plant life within the pretty big area as it is currently worded, several druid powers, a leadership bonus to help land a more potent cohort, the ability to be part of apparently amping caster level all the way to 40...

I can't think of any arcane PrC in pathfinder that's anywhere that good off hand, even the ones that permanently damn your soul for taking them. I guess the Godling PrC from Super Genius Games, though I can't recall if it actually increases your caster progression.

If Zaers custom class is a problem i'll just stick with Haluraan Elder.  I was mostly going to change now because Zaer put quite a bit of work into this new class and it seems fun.

[Zaer Darkwail]

I am upgrading all PrC's, including the pathfinder present ones so they are more inviting to take as presently it is a 'nerf' to enter PrC instead sticking on core class.

Also the acorn deal is well known fact. With DC 10 arcana you would know when facing such caster you can cripple him/her if you can get hands on acorn (which must be worn in person so not in bag of holding nor force field chest shenanigans).

But if others agree it is too strong (even if I reduced participants from 5/10 to 3/6), I may do some changes to it or add limit to circle magic so it's not idiotic OP when having powerful followers (like max cap is CL 20 and once cap reached you just get extra spells able to be used per day).

[TheGlyphstone]

Circle Magic was famously overpowered in 3.5, remember, for exactly the sort of CL shenanigans you mentioned. It's up to you whether you allow it ported forward or not.

[theLeslie]

My two cents.  And I'm not even playing a mage.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with circle magic.  The Crown Wars takes place in pre-Netheril days where epic level spell casting abilities were exceedingly common.  By all rights there should be super over powered spell casters just ruling the known world, which is how we end up with things like Killing Storms completely ravaging the landscape and killing thousands of elves at a time.  Mythals are common, Magic is strong, and Mystryl is the god of Magic, instead of Mystra.  There is now weave, there is no shadow weave, there is just primal, over powered Magic..

Because of the time line an setting I think not only is the Hathran a viable class, but should be encouraged to represent the prevelance of insanely powerful spellcasters at the time.  Remember, this is a time when the Nether Scrolls are not lost.  Faerun is a high magic setting even in it's 'modern' incarnations, but during the crown wars, the level of magic makes modern day Thay look like a bunch of tottering illusionists at a kids birthday party.

[Re Z L]

My two cents.  And I'm not even playing a mage.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with circle magic.  The Crown Wars takes place in pre-Netheril days where epic level spell casting abilities were exceedingly common.  By all rights there should be super over powered spell casters just ruling the known world, which is how we end up with things like Killing Storms completely ravaging the landscape and killing thousands of elves at a time.  Mythals are common, Magic is strong, and Mystryl is the god of Magic, instead of Mystra.  There is now weave, there is no shadow weave, there is just primal, over powered Magic..

Because of the time line an setting I think not only is the Hathran a viable class, but should be encouraged to represent the prevelance of insanely powerful spellcasters at the time.  Remember, this is a time when the Nether Scrolls are not lost.  Faerun is a high magic setting even in it's 'modern' incarnations, but during the crown wars, the level of magic makes modern day Thay look like a bunch of tottering illusionists at a kids birthday party.

Bah, who needs magic when you have GLORIOUS SCIENCE!

*Considers the necessary skills to create a hadron collider system, and a nuclear bomb...*

[PaleEnchantress]

But if others agree it is too strong (even if I reduced participants from 5/10 to 3/6), I may do some changes to it or add limit to circle magic so it's not idiotic OP when having powerful followers (like max cap is CL 20 and once cap reached you just get extra spells able to be used per day).

After reducing circle leader and great circle leader from 5/10 to 3/6 I really don't think it needs any further adjustment.  Most of us are already going to have a few things boosting our caster level (or at least the options of having them). Is anyone other then myself even likely to touch the class? So far Im the only one who's choice of prestige class is a group project. It seems a bit counter productive if the final creation ends up something I don't want anymore. Hathran and Halurran Elder (with slightly tweaked requirements) as they were were my choice for a prestige class.  Until now there was no mention of their power level being inappropriate. Zaer just wanted to take the tweaks a bit further.

We are a high powered campaign and I'm a fan of elegance. Changing circle size is simple and if it makes everyone happy then fine. A level 20 cl cap with additional level giving extra spell slots plus that ridiculous acorn thing is just too unwieldy and a hassle. If all circle magic using classes are also going to get a "But only this size, and only up to there, yet only with this, and you have to be doing that at the time and only withthese other people have to have this other thing..." Then it's not worth it  even if it's still powerful.

Reflavoring feats/classes ect to be mechanically the same but be treated differently fluff wise is pretty standard (sort of like every describing their magic missile looking different). If Zaer wants to take the opportunity to actually change the mechanics to match than thats really cool and unique. If at the same time he wants to trim something down a bit then fine. I'll probably still be interested, and if I'm not oh well, we can compromise or I can move on.  If it's going to be days of debate though just let me know now so I can let everyone mull over it while I go and find an entirely different build to go with.

.... I suppose I could be happy with Beholder Mage (joking)

All that being said I look forward to seeing it polished up so I can finalize my character. I do like what Zaer has done with it over all.

[Kolbrandr]

Going by the thing of setting there were warrior kings rolling around in this age who could drag a pair of ancient red dragons down to death with them, solo styles, because the elves of this era were just that mighty. But y'know, we top out at 12th level. We're not those dudes. If magic is intended to be the deciding force of everything as regards the campaign here and just blow past everything, circle magic and all, then other than to be in submission to such, why even have non casters or not just do a Netheril campaign.



Ugh, that didn't come off great. Look, I'm not wanting to be Canute commanding the tide here or step on anyone's fun or start a multi poster arguement. If most people are cool with the Hathran thing, with circle magic, what have you, then go with it. I've just in the last few years become a lot more used to pathfinder, where things are generally more balanced out, and the games I've been part of have not really involved people optimizing that hard, such that not quite optimally building to conceptual shtick worked out fine for comparative effectiveness.


I don't know, I'm probably going to do some rethinking on my concept and build regardless.