The looming US Government shutdown...how will it affect you?

[Torch]

This morning, I was reading the list of government-funded operations that will cease this weekend if a budget compromise can't be reached. I suppose our household is more fortunate than others, our income is from the private sector, we've already received our tax refund this year, and we had no plans to visit a national park anytime soon.

But our teenage demon spawn will be traveling to Europe this summer, and at this moment her passport application is in the middle of being processed. (We waited until she turned 16 so that she could receive an adult passport good for 10 years of travel rather than the child passport which is only good for 5 years). If the government shuts down, the State Department will no longer process passport applications.

No passport, no trip to Europe. Ugh.

Yes I know, small potatoes compared to some folks, but I'd be curious to know how those "little things" are affecting others, if anyone would care to share.

[Trieste]

Torch, can you link the list for those of us who have had our heads in the sand lately? (My political reading has suffered with Mr. Trieste's hospital visits. >.<)

[Callie Del Noire]

I'm hoping my VA Disabilty/gI Bill isn't hit

[Torch]

This article from the AP has a fairly comprehensive list.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_government_shutdown

I think you'll be okay Callie, all federal benefit payments would continue. Although active duty troops abroad will only get one week's pay instead of two in their next paycheck.  >:(

[Torch]

Your are totally excused for doing the ostrich thing, Trie. Completely understandable, and I've been there, done that. It's amazing how in a personal crisis your world shrinks.

*hugs*

[Ophan]

My husband and many close friends will not get paid if the gov. Dose not pass the bill. My husband is in the military and with out his paycheck we will not beable to make ends meet. I got out 4 months ago and my G.I. bill has not hit yet and I start collage soon. With out my G.I. bill I will not beable to start or get my sgt BAH for housing. (Which will also help a lot with bills and such.)

Sure we have a small savings but this freeze will drain it dry.

In a nut shell my family and friends are very worried.

[Caela]

For me personally it won't effect us much. Both myself, and the brother that lives with me, work private sector jobs so our income won't be hurt. I have two other brother however who are active military members (one Army, one Marine) and the Marine is married with a baby on the way. They really can't afford to not be getting paid right now. ~sighs~

I get very tired of politicians being so damned busy playing politics with each other, instead of doing their jobs, that it hurts the people they are supposed to be representing.

[Oniya]

The company I work for has government contracts, one of which is responsible for the work I do specifically.  I may be told to stop work, which will drop our income down to my roommate's Workmans Comp payments.  She should be getting a decent sum of back-pay this week, and will be giving us 'back rent' from that, which may handle a month of the forbearance agreement we have with the mortgage company.  My boss even told me to put as much in the bank as possible, but I don't think she realizes how impossible that's been this last year.

[Jag]

It's hard to say for us. The hubby works for a security company that send him to a place that has government contracts. If they get cut, he will likely be put on hold or sent to a different site to do security. The problem with that he gets paid whatever the site pays him per their contract with them. If he gets moved to a new site, he loses a lot of his pay since that site is one of the highest paying places for his company. We're barely pushing along as it is. I don't think we could manage with any kind of pay cut.

[GothicFires]

I just hope this doesn't interfere with me getting my surgery scheduled (medicare).  If it does i may have to resort to self amputation >.<

[elone]

I don't think a shutdown will happen, but if it does it will surely be so short lived as to not cause any real harm, just some inconvenience. Of course, a total shutdown would probably be a good thing in many respects because the government is totally incompetent. Maybe we would have to quit funding the wars, the oil companies, the banks, earmarks, special interests, useless defense spending, and the like.

Yes, I am cynical.

[Callie Del Noire]

I don't think a shutdown will happen, but if it does it will surely be so short lived as to not cause any real harm, just some inconvenience. Of course, a total shutdown would probably be a good thing in many respects because the government is totally incompetent. Maybe we would have to quit funding the wars, the oil companies, the banks, earmarks, special interests, useless defense spending, and the like.

Yes, I am cynical.

Careful.. some of that 'useless defense spending' isn't. I agree about the earmarks, bank/oil company bailouts and such.

[Asuras]

My dad (recently retired) worked as an auditor for the Department of Defense - in other words, his job was to make sure that Lockheed and Northrup Grumman weren't overcharging for fighter planes. When the government shut down last time he was furloughed, I thought this was awesome because I was 10 and my dad was home all day.

Still...retrospectively it seems kind of weird that if Congress is arguing about how much money it wants to save that people whose job it is to save the American taxpayer money get furloughed.

[Oniya]

Similarly, it seems weird that the government that is 'so concerned' about the state of the economy is willing to have a pissing contest and shut down - ensuring that all the government employees don't get paid, thereby making them hold onto the money they do have even more tightly.

[Sel Nar]

Sounds like a severe case of 'Penny-wise, pound-foolish'

Or, just a case of 'my mind is made up, stop confusing me with these 'fact' things'. I'm so glad I live in Canada, even with the recent non-confidence vote.

[Trieste]

I'm hoping that we won't be affected. Mr. Trieste has a private-sector job, but right now he's in the hospital and I don't know what kind of government funding they get (mental note to check up on that, since federal funding shows up in sneaky places). I work for UMass in the library as well as attending as a student, but it's a state school and there hasn't been even a whisper of possibly closing down.

My cousin is in the army, so it'll suck that he doesn't get paid, but I believe all his basic living expenses are actually covered by the military (housing, food) so even though it sucks not to have discretionary income, he won't be in a crisis.

[Ket]

Housing and food allowances come in the paycheck, even for those who live on base (but in a very reduced form). However, if he lives off base, that money will not come, as it is divided up into the bi-monthly paychecks military members receive. Even for those who live on base and use the galley/chow hall, they still need at least a little bit of discretionary income. Uniforms don't pay for themselves, and the allowance a service member receives is only doled out once a year. There are payments that automatically come out of a service members pay, such as life insurance, that will not be paid on time and will be incurred as a debt. Many service members have vehicles and insurance on them, even if they live on base, and many have those payments come out as an allotment each month. Without being paid, these payments will not be made, causing late payments and fees to build up with lenders. The SCRA does not have provisions in place to cover such things.

I'm lucky in that if those on the hill cannot come to an agreement here shortly, my retirement and GI Bill payments will not be affected. However, many of my friends are active duty or reservists, and their pay will disappear for an unknown amount of time, pay that they rely on completely to live. The area I live in is highly dependent on the military and other government money that runs through it. Losing that money, for even a relatively short period of time, will cause a large impact. The region, while still affected by the recession, has not been affected as badly because we have that large influx of government funds. I can't even begin to imagine the effect of losing that money will have on the local economy here.

The largest business and employer in America is showing their incompetency in managing themselves, and in doing so, punishing the citizens of the country. 

[Zakharra]

The largest business and employer in America is showing their incompetency in managing themselves, and in doing so, punishing the citizens of the country.

Got the love the competency of the US government.

[Revolverman]

Sounds like a severe case of 'Penny-wise, pound-foolish'

Or, just a case of 'my mind is made up, stop confusing me with these 'fact' things'. I'm so glad I live in Canada, even with the recent non-confidence vote.

At least things happen when the budget doesn't pass eh? : P

[gaggedLouise]

Can't think of many other countries where a budget stalemate would lead to the state saying, "The Government is closing shop until you guys have found a solution". That's something you just don't do. Neither school teachers, nor librarians, nor train drivers, nor soldiers getting paid! Then again, other countries have general or mega-scale strikes - very occasionally, but still they do - that shut down large parts of business life, health care and/or industry etc, and that's something I don't figure would occur in the U.S., not on the scale it can get to here.

[Callie Del Noire]

Problem is failure to agree on a budget would have resulted in a change of leadership in the government in most of the countries aside from the US I have lived in. Ireland and UK for sure, and I'm sure that Spain would have had problems too.

[gaggedLouise]

Problem is failure to agree on a budget would have resulted in a change of leadership in the government in most of the countries aside from the US I have lived in. Ireland and UK for sure, and I'm sure that Spain would have had problems too.

Yes, formally, but in most countries the budget is discussed with energy for sure but the budget deliberations is not the arena of choice to try to bring down the government. There's several resons why the US stands apart I guess, one would be that in other places (most of Europe, certainly the UK, and Canada too I think) the government is supposed to have a clear majority in the parliament or they won't take over in the first place. Of course Obama has a senate majority, but not a house majority at present; and then there's the special rules of qualified majority for getting some things to the floor. Kennedy had a quite solid party majority in both houses (past 60 in the senate so he would not be routinely filibustered) all through his presidency, but still had major trouble getting laws and budgets through the congress. It's hard to imagine that state of affairs in Britain, Germany or Spain.

Then in many other countries, economic policies and running economic issues define the election campaigns more powerfully than they sometimes do in the US, so if a party or a group of parties have won a majority, it's sort of taken for granted that they have got a mandate that encompasses their ideas of economic policies. The views they pushed in the camoaign, and during their time in opposition, or views and concepts that are roughly like those. So public spending doesn't really become the head-on frontier you want to use to force them right out of power, force a climate of no-confidence - not until the next election is drawing near.

[ReijiTabibito]

Correct me if I'm wrong, those here more in the know than I, but it sounds like that budget isn't the only thing the parties are fighting over.  A lot of the articles I've read have had disagreements over something dealing with abortion?

[HockeyGod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, those here more in the know than I, but it sounds like that budget isn't the only thing the parties are fighting over.  A lot of the articles I've read have had disagreements over something dealing with abortion?

Planned Parenthood is funded by the federal government to provide health care services (cancer screening, preventive medicine, etc.). The republicans want to eliminate funding to Planned Parenthood because some of their clinics provide abortions. No federal funding is used on abortions (it can't be per the last republican law enactment). 97% of work at Planned Parenthood has nothing to do with abortions, but actually helps rural and low income women.

See this post: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=100221.msg4481259#msg4481259

[ReijiTabibito]

So...the Republicans want to win in an area where they've essentially already won in?  And take away help from people who are likely to vote Republican? (IE, women in rural areas like the South)

>_<

And these are the people we've got running our country.

[gaggedLouise]

Correct me if I'm wrong, those here more in the know than I, but it sounds like that budget isn't the only thing the parties are fighting over.  A lot of the articles I've read have had disagreements over something dealing with abortion?

Abortion is one of those issues where it's really hard for us non-Americans to get how it can sail as a big issue in every election, more than thirty years after the Supreme Court decided that such state laws as would be used for wholesale blocking of women being reasonably free to choose abortion, that such laws were unconstitutional. Absolutely nobody in England, Holland or Germany, except for fringe parties, would mount an attempt to potentially block abortions as a first-rate issue in an election race. Same with gay marriage I think; even where it doesn't exist yet it wouldn't become the defining issue of an election, or the point you try to use to jackhammer the government out of office when it's entered.

[ReijiTabibito]

Abortion is one of those issues where it's really hard for us non-Americans to get how it can sail as a big issue in every election, more than thirty years after the Supreme Court decided that such state laws as would be used for wholesale blocking of women being reasonably free to choose abortion, that such laws were unconstitutional. Absolutely nobody in England, Holland or Germany, except for fringe parties, would mount an attempt to potentially block abortions as a first-rate issue in an election race. Same with gay marriage I think; even where it doesn't exist yet it wouldn't become the defining issue of an election, or the point you try to use to jackhammer the government out of office when it's entered.

Because here in America we've got two things.  1: a religious right that still has plenty of influence, especially due to the fact that they can shout louder than most special interest groups.  2: no shortage of intolerance.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that over in Europe (which is where it sounds like you live), religion doesn't have a whole lot to do with government and who gets elected and whatnot.  Over here, being a WASP is practically one of the requirements for being a Republican candidate.  You have to go to church and believe and God and in the Bible and all that.  Religion is very much a part of the Republican party.

Part of the problem, I think personally, is that the Christians and whatnot look at abortion, and say that, no, we can't just morally disapprove of it, we can't just say that it's wrong and goes against the ethical principles of our religion.  No.  It has to go away.  It has to die.  Because we've got some moral imperative to keep society on the right track and from going straight into hell.

This coming from the same religion that protected sexual deviants (according to their own tenets) for generations, told people that they could get into heaven if they spent enough money on pieces of paper, and started wars over a piece of earth that is still contested today.

Never mind that, in the book of Revelation, the entire world goes to hell anyway.  It's prophecy!  You believe that it is going to happen!  What makes you think you can stop it?

...

>_<  Some days I'm ashamed of my own people.

[Ironwolf85]

i don't think it'll shut down, and the VA and army are immune to these cuts, with good reason.
they will reach a compremise.. it's the way government works

[Oniya]

It's shut down before - two times, one after the other, back in 1995.  It's happened before, and so I don't doubt that it could happen again.

[ReijiTabibito]

If I vaguely remember, though, wasn't that around the time Clinton's Lewinsky scandal started?  Or am I misremembering things again?

[Oniya]

She was hired in 1995, but the Linda Tripp tape (the one that got delivered to Ken Starr after Lewinsky had signed an affidavit denying an affair) didn't surface until 1998.

[ReijiTabibito]

Okay.  So that couldn't have been a factor in the shutdown.  I'll keep that part of my comments to myself, then.

[Wyrd]

Wait.... In the US, the government shuts down if their is some disagreement over the budget? Well that... What?

[Oniya]

No, it pretty much followed the same sequence that this one is - Congress was controlled by the opposing party, and the two factions (Executive and Legislative) couldn't come to an agreement on spending.  Clinton didn't approve the cuts that Congress wanted, Congress threatened to refuse to raise the debt limit, which would have put the US in default unless the Treasury suspended funding to certain parts of the government.

Things that got shut down:

• Health and welfare services for military veterans were curtailed
• the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped disease surveillance
• new clinical research patients were not accepted at the National Institutes of Health
• toxic waste clean-up work at 609 sites was halted
• The closure of 368 National Park sites resulted in the loss of some seven million visitors
• 200,000 applications for passports and 20,000 to 30,000 applications for visas by foreigners went unprocessed each day
• U.S. tourism and airline industries incurred millions of dollars in losses
• more than 20% of federal contracts, representing $3.7 billion in spending, were affected adversely.

The last bullet point is the one that would affect me specifically, as the work I do is on an EPA contract, and I'm not cleared for receiving other materials to work on at home.  (and the office is 3-4 states away)

[Belle33]

The shutdown has been averted - thank goodness.  I wish they would not play chicken like this and get on with the business of managing this country.  There is far too much happening in the world for the US to be bogged down in budget battles.  That said - I'm worried that the details are revealed, a lot of people on the left will be highly pissed off at all the sacrifices one side is making. 

[elone]

The shutdown has been averted - thank goodness.  I wish they would not play chicken like this and get on with the business of managing this country.  There is far too much happening in the world for the US to be bogged down in budget battles.  That said - I'm worried that the details are revealed, a lot of people on the left will be highly pissed off at all the sacrifices one side is making.

I am one of those on the left who is worried about the details. It is criminal the one side seeks to legislate morality by holding the budget hostage. Make that the nation hostage. That seems to be the way of politics in this country. Whatever happened to by the people, for the people. They don't give a damn about the people, unless they are rich, powerful, or able to help them get reelected. That is just the way it is. There is always the attempt to privatize everything on the belief that everyone can do it better and cheaper than the government.  The only way a for profit corporation can do it cheaper is by cutting services.  Unfortunately the Government is too depending on special interests to act in our interest.

Maybe we should privatize congress.

[Zakharra]

I am one of those on the left who is worried about the details. It is criminal the one side seeks to legislate morality by holding the budget hostage. Make that the nation hostage. That seems to be the way of politics in this country. Whatever happened to by the people, for the people. They don't give a damn about the people, unless they are rich, powerful, or able to help them get reelected. That is just the way it is. There is always the attempt to privatize everything on the belief that everyone can do it better and cheaper than the government.  The only way a for profit corporation can do it cheaper is by cutting services.  Unfortunately the Government is too depending on special interests to act in our interest.

Maybe we should privatize congress.

I do not like alot of what Congress and the government does (President included), I think all of them should be thrown out on their butts. Personally, I think they should be flogged with a real cat 0 ninetails/flail/flog when they are caught lying and breaking promises. Nothing like having the skin off your back flayed off once to focus your mind and make you do what you promised in the campaign, but that's another subject.  I basically all of them are pretty much useless.

Washington DC needs a workover badly, but to provatize the Legislative branch, or even the Executive and Judicial? Hell no. That would be very very bad news for the US.

[Belle33]

I am one of those on the left who is worried about the details. It is criminal the one side seeks to legislate morality by holding the budget hostage. Make that the nation hostage. That seems to be the way of politics in this country. Whatever happened to by the people, for the people. They don't give a damn about the people, unless they are rich, powerful, or able to help them get reelected. That is just the way it is. There is always the attempt to privatize everything on the belief that everyone can do it better and cheaper than the government.  The only way a for profit corporation can do it cheaper is by cutting services.  Unfortunately the Government is too depending on special interests to act in our interest.

Maybe we should privatize congress.

I feel your frustration - and I'm right there with you.  Your sentiments are well said.  But I think Congress is well on it's way to being privatized, with all of the corporate money being spent on candidates.  The Koch brothers control at least half the tea party candidates in office.

[Oniya]

I feel your frustration - and I'm right there with you.  Your sentiments are well said.  But I think Congress is well on it's way to being privatized, with all of the corporate money being spent on candidates.  The Koch brothers control at least half the tea party candidates in office.

That's exactly why we should stop it from being privatized.  The Koch brothers do not have the interests of the American People in mind - they have their own interests in mind.  Things have to change.  People - and that means the American public: the average guy in the street - need to get in there and speak up.  If a candidate doesn't do what you want, vote 'em out next time.  We are the people that candidates should see as being able to get them reelected, and they need to know that there will be consequences if they renege on the promises that they use to get into office.

[Vekseid]

History seems to show that there's actually a very limited window of time between when a crisis begins and a demagogue can take advantage of it and seize power in a democracy.

Very, very few Americans like the amount of power corporations have. It peaks at something like 29% even among Republicans.

I think it's only a matter of time, really. Hundreds of thousands of people are getting shocking revelations each year, and the corporate wing is not exactly winning over this nation's youth.

[elone]

My previous comment on privatizing congress was meant to be a little tongue in cheek.  But now that I think about it Belle is right. It is already privatized, certainly not a true democratic government anymore.  I should say republic.

[Yorubi]

Don't worry, the people responsible for the shutdown will still get all their benefits and pay that they don't even need for most of the members.

The few pretty much dictate the many and get what they want and not what the people want. If only we had our own revolution in the US to over-throw the government and put democracy back in its place.  Corporations are organized greed by its making and the only way to control it is through regulations. You can let them thrive still you can't let them run the country. I mean what was the term

Trickle down economics... I mean when people say that, is it not just me who feels like that very phrase seems rather unfair? Last I seen a trickle is barely anything while the thing actually holding all that 'water' has just such ridiculous sums.

I just really hate how people are so ignorant out there. If people actually opened their eyes rather then keep themselves blind, they will realize that a lot of what they are told are just either tiny pieces or full out lies.

[Serephino]

I'm glad the shutdown was avoided, but it should have never gotten that close.  Republicans are bullies that used frustration to seize power.  They held unemployment benefits hostage to get the tax cuts for the wealthy renewed.  Why wouldn't they hold government function hostage to get the budget they want?  That's what they do. 

And the budget they have written up for next year is even scarier.  What's in it hasn't been completely revealed, but it's been said in interviews that they want to make trillions more in cuts.  I even read somewhere that they want to get rid of Medicare in 10 years, instead, giving eligible people vouchers they can use to help buy private insurance.  Of course, the vouchers won't be nearly enough to cover the premiums, so the people on very fixed incomes would have to pay the difference.  Is it any wonder why I didn't want to take Medicare when I was eligible?  But because Part A is mandatory, I don't have much of a choice.  Most private insurers won't take me, and even if they will, they want an obscene amount for the initial payment. 

[Lyell]

I agree that the house is broken. Anytime the hours or senate is so imbalanced that one side can smirk at the other and say "deal with it," something is horribly wrong.

But to assign blame solely to the republican house representatives is a little short sighted. Republican voters who put them there, favoring the campaign on spending cuts are part of the issue. The continuing resolutions and avoiding spending time on an actual budget also contributed. Riders from both sides also served to obstruct any progress in the months leading up to the shutdown threat.