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Author Topic: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)  (Read 222 times)

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Offline Mathim

Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2018, 05:23:10 PM »
^^ Hahaha! That movie, though... ;D

To contribute some that almost fit (but not quite):

 In the video game Final Fantasy VIII, Darth Mom almost happens... but more of a near-miss than anything.


Edit: Uh, come to think of it... This is actually very Darth Mom.


 Edea appeared to be the villain to the main characters of the story, until it is discovered that things were more than what they appeared. She was more of a victim/puppet for the true villain.) Also, while Edea wasn't the biological mother, she was the only mother her adopted children knew and loved. She practically was their mother in the aspects that mattered. So maybe this can go with  mothers that adopt and even step-mothers. That is, if there is some close past relationship established.

Man, why is the Darth Mom concept so much more difficult than Darth Dad? ::)

Perhaps these examples also do not have to be exclusively for the main character, either. In the Mortal Kombat example, Sindel is Kitana's mother, after all. Can't remember if it is biological or not, but I am going to scrap that. I think what is more important is that that motherly-relationship has be present somewhere.

Another video game example is Final Fantasy IX's Queen Brahne. Totally a Darth Mom, even if she isn't THE villain. So, maybe it doesn't have to be the central antagonist, either. If there are other Darth Moms elsewhere, they might be useful to mention.

Once again, thank you all for sharing these! :-)

Gonna have to really dispute the Final Fantasy VIII bit, and even in FFIX, Brahne wasn't Garnet's real mother either, probably the main reason she was so willing to do that to her as opposed to a biological daughter.

Offline DallasTopic starter

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Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2018, 08:40:29 PM »
It is true that the conflicted relationships in those two cases are not exactly mutual. Edea (the gang's 'Matron') isn't exactly herself. And Brahne wasn't Garnet's biological mother. This is true.

However, what is important to me is the relationship within the eyes of the heroes; it is difficult to fight "Mom" because for them, for all intents and purposes, this is their mother that they knew (or thought they knew).

Squall, Selphie, etc. weren't exactly keen on the idea of fighting their matron. Irvine (apparently having a clear memory of everything) seemingly "chokes" in his moment to assassinate the Sorceress. Likely due to the fact that he knew full well he had his "mother" in the cross-hairs. Though, one could argue FFVIII's weakness in its storytelling is that things were perhaps left too 'subtle' in moments like these. But at any rate, whether or not she was herself or "in her right mind" (She was being controlled). They didn't understand any of that. They didn't want to fight Edea, but they had no choice. From Edea's perspective though, she is actually more of a victim that knew her fate would be just that.

In the following game's story: Garnet was repeatedly crushed and torn apart when baring witness to Brahne's warmongering. Even when it became fairly evident that Brahne used her as a stepping stone for conquest, Garnet still wanted to save Brahne from Kuja. Brahne was still very much "Mom" for Garnet in these moments -- regardless of the circumstances or what her 'Mom' might have been feeling at the time.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 08:48:26 PM by Dallas »

Offline DallasTopic starter

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Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2018, 09:05:37 PM »
^^ A flip version of this... could be Fallout 4, if you are playing as the female character.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide
The villain child and protagonist mother could potentially join forces or become enemies. Nora (default name for female protagonist) could be played in a variety of ways. So this isn't exactly a concrete example, but the conflict in not wanting to fight their "evil" child can be expressed at various times through her. All while the "villain child" seems to be indifferent and rather single-minded. Even in his last moments on one of the endings, he doesn't particularly "yield" to mother while Mom can still express pain in not wanting to be against her son.


Erm, as an example... this is somewhat of an inversion of what I described above. But what I am getting at is that those conflicted feelings are still very present in these relationships mentioned. Even if they are somewhat of a 'one-way street'. :-)

FIRE IN THE HOLE!

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilMatriarch

Also, this has been an absolute treat.  My thanks! I figured TVTropes.org had something like this but I never quite know where to look. This has also been helpful.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 09:10:46 PM by Dallas »

Online Oniya

Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2018, 09:41:34 PM »
Does Jenova count as 'Mom'?

Offline Mathim

Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2018, 09:50:06 PM »
Does Jenova count as 'Mom'?

She doesn't really have a personality, so I doubt it. One could consider her Sephiroth's mother, and he's totally going along for the ride with her destructive impulses so if anything, it's a mother-son team of villains. If Cloud at any point had any way to be considered Jenova's son due to the infusion, he broke that connection after falling into the Lifestream, and really, Sephiroth was going above and beyond anything Jenova would have been capable of on her own with or without her help.

Offline DallasTopic starter

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Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2018, 10:41:39 PM »
Jenova kinda plays with that a bit, but I am with Mathim on that one.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: Darth Mom (Stories with Villain Mothers?)
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 10:59:10 PM »
I would say Darksiders, Lilth could be considered a 'Darth Mom' as she created the Nephilim which is the race of the Four Horsemen that serve as the protags to the games.

I am kinda sad none her have mentioned some of anime's most infamous mothers.

Medusa Gorgon from Soul Eater. Drove her kid into insanity to make a weapon of chaos.

Then there's Raygo Kiryuin from Kill La Kill.  Not only was she going out of her way to enslave the world to an alien race, but also enjoyed partaking in incest with her own daughters as often as she could.

Then there's Matriarch Benezia from Mass Effect, but that was more of mind control.

Marvel Comics own Carnage Symbiote could fall loosely fall into this category as it asexually gave birth to the more noble Toxin symbiote.