Cyber Bullying Leads to Death

[Avi]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081121/ap_on_re_us/internet_suicide;_ylt=AmX7GDa4J0oaWwXnll1RAPZbIwgF

I remember hearing about this when it first happened.  It seems that things are finally moving along in the trial.  I found it pretty interesting that there had not been cyber-bullying or cyber-harassment laws in place.  Anyway, thoughts?

[Greenthorn]

The adults involved should be prosecuted.  Plain and simple.  How immature.  A parent...or rather an adult, should be protective of our children and keep them from harm.

If I knew one of my daughter's friends (or enemies) were depressed or having any kind of problems I would be on the phone with their parents or even their school!

[Moondazed]

Wow... that is nothing short of pathetic, and the adults involved should be prosecuted just as someone who perpetrated such mental abuse in person would be.

[Avi]

Personally, I think the mother should be at least responsible for manslaughter, if not homicide.  But, that's just me.  Having been bullied in middle and high school, I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of this type of thing. 

[Kurzyk]

I remember reading about that and it's true there aren't very clear laws on it, but hopefully it will set a precedent and they can prosecute her.

Awful story. So terribly tragic and unbelievable that the woman can plead not guilty is sick.

Cyber bullying is a growing and vicious problem even done by other kids. I hope things like that will wake up parents to keep an eye on their children's online activities.

[Greenthorn]

Well, I know in the local school here, cyber bullying is against their normal bullying laws...and anyone found harrassing another student is open to facing the consequences -in- school...be it suspension or expulsion. 

It's a shame that our schools have to take such a stand against it because so many parents are either oblivious to their children's activities or just simply don't care.  (yes, I realize that I may be starting a debate here...and that is fine)  Or worse yet, like the story Avi posted...get involved in the immaturity.

[ShrowdedPoet]

That kind of shit just pisses me off!  Adults acting like children, expecially parents, really pisses me off also.  Online, offline. . .the consequences should be the same.  Behind these computer screens sit real people typing at their keyboards.  Just because the scene of the crime (incident whatever) was a virtual world shouldn't make a difference. 

The mother acting like such a child reminds me back years ago when I was 12 or 13.  I was dating this boy who lived next door to me.  His step-mother didn't like me and descided to pull some stupid shit to try and get me into trouble so she goes to another house across the street from me (I had a friend and an enemy living there) and wrote a note trying to mimic my handwriting from letters to my boyfriend.  She wrote a letter from me to my friend Ronni (another girl who lived down the street) with her other step-sons name in it (she didn't like her other step-son) arranging a meeting to do drugs together after school.  She then dropped it in the post office parking lot (within walking distance of my house).  This is a small town so you can only guess what happened.  The post lady found it and opened it to see who it belonged to read it. . .knew my parents and gave it to my dad.  Dad gave it to mom.  But my parents are smart.  My mom asked me to write a few things down like the name Ronni and the like.  Then she showed me the letter.  She knew from the hand writing it wasn't me.  That and they misspelled Ronni's name.  I found out from my friend (the one that lived in the house with my enemy where the letter was written) who did it.  This is ridiculous!  That could have gotten myself and Ronni into SERIOUS trouble had I not had such level headed parents. 

*grumbles about adults who act like immature little kids)

[The Overlord]

The defense claimed Friday that 49-year-old Lori Drew cannot not be held responsible for violating the service rules of MySpace because she never read them.

This then is a double standard, because it's stated ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. It's also just a fabrication on the part of the defense; all the forums I see have a terms of service list, if the dumb bitch didn't read it before she clickied to join, it's her own damn fault.

[Oniya]

This then is a double standard, because it's stated ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. It's also just a fabrication on the part of the defense; all the forums I see have a terms of service list, if the dumb bitch didn't read it before she clickied to join, it's her own damn fault.

Wasn't there something about her using an account her daughter created?  Not that this is any excuse, nor do I think a jury is dim enough to call it one.

[ShrowdedPoet]

Wasn't there something about her using an account her daughter created?  Not that this is any excuse, nor do I think a jury is dim enough to call it one.

She and a friend along with her daughter set up a fake account if I read correctly.

[Oniya]

So in theory, any one of the three could have clicked the "I have read and agree" button (Whether or not they read or agreed).

Still, no bloody excuse, but I'm willing to bet that the defense lawyer uses that argument.  If someone signs up on a website for adults only, and it's discovered that they aren't, in fact, an adult, they are still obligated to follow the rules, and have no recourse when they are booted.  If you sign up for Y!Gallery (a yaoi-themed gallery) and post boobies, you get warned and (if you don't stop) booted.  Not reading the rules is no excuse.

[ShrowdedPoet]

I agree!

[Inkidu]

So in theory, any one of the three could have clicked the "I have read and agree" button (Whether or not they read or agreed).

Still, no bloody excuse, but I'm willing to bet that the defense lawyer uses that argument.  If someone signs up on a website for adults only, and it's discovered that they aren't, in fact, an adult, they are still obligated to follow the rules, and have no recourse when they are booted.  If you sign up for Y!Gallery (a yaoi-themed gallery) and post boobies, you get warned and (if you don't stop) booted.  Not reading the rules is no excuse.

I guess it would depend on whether or not it was considered a contract. That makes things a little tricky with minors. However, I agree.

[Trieste]

Thing is, the woman is not a minor and could be considered the adult supervision in the case.

I swear to god, if this gets dismissed on the basis that she didn't read the rules, I'm so going to advocate for anyone who gets a speeding ticket to bring it to court saying they didn't see the sign.

[Avi]

Thing is, the woman is not a minor and could be considered the adult supervision in the case.

I swear to god, if this gets dismissed on the basis that she didn't read the rules, I'm so going to advocate for anyone who gets a speeding ticket to bring it to court saying they didn't see the sign.

That would be about the equivalent in that situation, yeah.  Again, ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking them.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

What are the laws though regarding a person committing suicide from something a person said or did?

[Revolverman]

What are the laws though regarding a person committing suicide from something a person said or did?

In Canada, under criminal law, nothing can be done, since its too distant a link, however NOT in a civil case.

[Kurzyk]

If what I remember reading recently is correct, the federal charges against her were dropped. She was found guilty of misdemeanors that could total 3 years in jail?

We need better laws regarding this.  >:(

[Trieste]

I don't know. I'm torn about it. I think she should lose custody of any children she has, provided they have a safe place to go and will not be stuck in the system - which would be worse - so that she can't teach them an more of this crap. If what Kurzyk posted was true, she did get jail time, though I would be interested to know if she'd actually serve the 3 years or what. It's not hard for someone who's served jail time to lose custody of their children if a relative is willing to step up and sue for it. What she did was repugnant.

On the other hand, what better laws? What was she guilty of, exactly, other than being a slimy creep? Should we charge her with personal irresponsibility? Morally bankrupt behaviour? I personally would not want our legal system judging me on the basis of morality. The legal system should be there to judge whether I broke a law or not... not whether I'm a good person. And so it's a very dangerous line, and one I'm not sure I would ever want to cross.

[Oniya]

On the other hand, what better laws? What was she guilty of, exactly, other than being a slimy creep? Should we charge her with personal irresponsibility? Morally bankrupt behaviour? I personally would not want our legal system judging me on the basis of morality. The legal system should be there to judge whether I broke a law or not... not whether I'm a good person. And so it's a very dangerous line, and one I'm not sure I would ever want to cross.

She caused the death of another.  She told a depressed person that the world would be better off without her.  Her 'juvenile prank' was a clear and contributing cause for the girl's suicide.  They've nailed frat boys for hazing stunts, where the victim participated quasi-willingly in something that killed them, I don't see too much difference.

[Trieste]

To be honest, I don't, either. But depending on what she got jailtime for, she may have been punished for that. Is three years of her life enough? 10? Should we execute her? How much is enough, and who should decide it?

Ya know?

[Oniya]

There's one thing lacking that leaves the worst taste in my mouth about the whole incident - the thing that would make me feel that the punishment she got was 'enough'.  At no point has there been an acknowledgment that what she did was wrong.  When you get right down to it, that's what punishment is supposed to be for.  To show you that what you did was wrong, and so you (and hopefully others, with our system) won't do it again.  Whether she serves three years or ten years, or even gets LWOP, if she doesn't admit that it was wrong to do what she did, it hasn't done a damn thing. 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

While perhaps she can be found guilty of violating a law for Myspace...I am very much against her being found guilty of murder.  You cannot murder somebody with words.  There is a point where the other party has to reach a point of decision and responsibility regarding suicide.  We cannot be expected to censor ourselves for worry that someone else may overhear or be offended to such an extent they will kill themselves.

[Oniya]

Murder, probably not.  One of the varieties of manslaughter, maybe.  The thing is, this wasn't a case of 'someone might overhear or be offended'.  This was a case of telling someone 'the world would be better off without you,' when it was clear that the girl was in a state where that was likely to have dire consequences.  Also, people don't commit suicide because they're offended.  They do it because at that moment - however wrong they might be - they think death is the only way out.  Sometimes it's a cry for help, but more often than not, they intend to follow through.

It is possible to drive someone to suicide with nothing more than words.  I've seen it in my life.  It's not always malicious - I've seen it happen by accident, and while that is tragic, it wouldn't (and didn't) merit any kind of legal or civil action.  This woman was deliberately hurtful and as far as I've seen, still doesn't see that she did anything more than play a prank.

[Trieste]

No, not murder. There is a charge that they use when, for instance, at a party there is someone in dire need of help and nobody calls the police or an ambulance because they're afraid of getting in trouble. It might be criminal negligence... I'm not sure. That, I think, would be almost appropriate, but I think she should get the harshest punishment allowable by law because what she did was not just see trouble and watch it go by, but egg it on. What she did was tantamount to goading someone who's allergic to alcohol into doing a keg stand.