GM Lounge - Bartenders Answer All Your Questions

[TheGlyphstone]

Short answer? No.

Long answer? Hell no. ;D

Dragons are immensely powerful creatures - the most powerful individual entities in the entire world, probably the closest thing the world has to demigods. They are killable, technically, but that would involve being able to attack a dragon in the first place. They're just as greedy and power-hungry as any Tolkeinian dragon, but where Smaug sat in a cave and owned a pile of gold, Shadowrun Great Dragons sit in boardrooms and own mega-corporations, richer than and more powerful than the average medium-sized country. Shadowrunning is all about living in the cracks between society. You might work for a dragon - or more likely, for someone who works for someone who works for a dragon, dealing directly with one is about as likely as personally buying a hamburger from the CEO of McDonalds, Inc. But as a PC, you're limited to humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, trolls, changelings, or assorted variants of the above (minotaurs are a troll subspecies, for instance).

[LunarSage]

Thanks for the critique, Chrystal.  We'll certainly take it to heart and we are thrilled to see folks excited about the game even now.  :-)

One of the reasons we're letting people know about the wiki early is so they'll be able to read the setting information at their leisure over the next couple months.  Glyph is correct in that there are no halfbreeds in the Shadowrun universe.  As far as playing a dragon, that's a no, sorry.  As Glyph said, they're just too powerful and influential to really make it as characters.  You'd need a vehicle mounted heavy weapon to even dent a dragon's hide for the most part.  They'll serve well as NPCs and such that the players may not even meet in game.  Then again, they may.   ;)

alxnjsh, I can move this discussion somewhere else if you feel we've strayed from this thread's purpose.  I'm good either way.  :-)

[HockeyGod]

alxnjsh, I can move this discussion somewhere else if you feel we've strayed from this thread's purpose.  I'm good either way.  :-)

Tis up to you, Lunar. My OCD is well in check and I'm not hyperventilating  ;D

[Josietta]

*Is just a data monkey who enters all that is given*  I've been putting the equipment into table coding lately so it looks easier to read.

The "second" page "From the Shadows", will contain all your basic information. Race, stats, how to play, as well as all the equipment.

The good thing about Shadowrun is, if you decide to play a Street Samurai, you don't have to read any of the magic or matrix information. You just have to worry about your equipment.  If you want to be a Mage, you only (for the most part) need to read a bit about the magic and spells (as most Mages don't usually have much in the way of equipment, beyond a Commlink).  So there are parts of the wiki you don't -hafta- read. You just have to determine what "class" you want to be first. :)

But I'll leave all of that sort of stuff to Lunar as he is the GM and has all the info on how he is running it.

[TheGlyphstone]

Should I go out on a limb and assume that a Troll PhysAdept dual-wielding twin Panther Assault Cannons is right out? ;D

[Chrystal]

Okay, that one page is pretty much a lot to digest, but not too much, especially as there are huge chunks of it that, as you say, are irrelevant for each character.

I notice that there don't seem to be halflings? Is this deliberate or oversight?

I'm thinking about a female Orc hacker, with pretty much the works by way of matrix gear and sweet-FA else. Maybe a cheap light pistol for personal protection against anyone not having an active link...

Something like this...

[TheGlyphstone]

Nope, no halflings. There are Gnomes, a variant species of Dwarf native to Turkey and Central Europe - they "are the smallest dwarven subtype, averaging 80 cm in height, and 37 kg in weight. Gnomes have very little body hair even as adults, and generally look like human children to those unfamiliar with them. "

So that's probably the closest you'll get to a halfling.

Personally, I'd like to go with a Giant (German Troll), either a PhysAdept or Street Sam.  Plain old Troll will suffice, though more boring.

[LunarSage]

I'm heavily leaning toward none of the 'advanced' metatypes.  Just Trolls, Orks, Elves, Dwarves and Humans.

Or if I do allow them, they would have the same 'stat' bonus traits that their regular metatype would have, making the difference only for aesthetics and RP.

[TheGlyphstone]

Since I didn't know the subvariants had different stats, I'm fine with that.

[HockeyGod]

*dusts off the barstools again*

Quiet in here...

[LunarSage]

Leonardo:  "It's quiet in here"...

Donatello:  "Yeah, a little too quiet."

Leonardo:  "Hey, it's Raph!"

Michealangelo:  "Yeah.  A little too Raph."

[Moraline]

*takes a stool* Hi guys.  Where's a good place to find a capable and dependable co-GM? I am looking for a preferably male with free-form GM'ing experience. Setting is Fantasy, based on a book series. If that makes any difference?

[Chrystal]

The book series might make a difference?

[Moraline]

*waves to Chrystal*  Hiya. 

Wheel of Time but focusing on the White Tower.

[Thufir Hawat]

*takes a stool* Hi guys.  Where's a good place to find a capable and dependable co-GM? I am looking for a preferably male with free-form GM'ing experience. Setting is Fantasy, based on a book series. If that makes any difference?

Posting there might help.

[Moraline]

Posting there might help.

I'm not entirely ready to outline my specific needs yet. I'm more here just to discuss it.

[Moraline]

Looking for some thoughts.

1) How do you get free-form players to recognize the fact that casting magic in the world your making will exhaust them. What are some good ways to define it and encourage the players to follow it?

2) Also, what do you think of sending pm's to players during Free-form games to ask them to take a dive in a battle?
(ex: I send player A a pm to tell them they get attacked by some creature and then ask them to lose the fight.)
Is that okay to do this? If you do things like this, how do your players react to it?

[TheGlyphstone]

1) Just state it openly in the beginning of the RP. That's part of freeform, the need for a certain degree of adherence to the honor system in order to progress the story. There's no real way to encourage people to follow it other than trusting the social contract of a group RP.

2) This I wouldn't appreciate at all, or consider appropriate. A player taking a dive is one thing, but not it being forced on them...if you want a monster to beat them for the sake of story, arrange it beforehand and get their permission before the monster ever appears; if they're completely against this, choose a different player or a different story element. To do otherwise, I feel, would be violating that aforementioned social contract by removing their creative agency.

[LunarSage]

The problem is, I think that players don't want their character to look bad under most circumstances.  You see it all the time in TT games, where a player refuses or half asses RPing out their character being intimidated, despite them having failed the roll or whatnot.  You're bound to run into issues by asking a player's character to lose a fight unless you do it in such a way that they look cool even if they lose.

[Moraline]

2) This I wouldn't appreciate at all, or consider appropriate. A player taking a dive is one thing, but not it being forced on them...if you want a monster to beat them for the sake of story, arrange it beforehand and get their permission before the monster ever appears; if they're completely against this, choose a different player or a different story element. To do otherwise, I feel, would be violating that aforementioned social contract by removing their creative agency.

Telling them before hand that a monster was about to attack was exactly what I said.  (" I send player A a pm to tell them they get attacked by some creature" )  I didn't say to do it after the attack had already occurred.


Here's my issue with players in free-form settings (I see this far too often):

They have a tendency to be the all powerful, I win every(or most) of my battles and always come out on top because I'm the uber super dubber bestest.

If you read literature or even good comic book writing you'll see that the good guys almost always lose most of his initial battles.

In literature they call it the try/fail cycle. The hero tries, fails then tries again. It's designed to build reader/audience sympathy and tension/suspense. It also makes the writer have to think of a creative way to get their hero out of the bind/win the war.

So the question is, how do I encourage players to let their heroes fail without sending pm's?

The problem is, I think that players don't want their character to look bad under most circumstances.  You see it all the time in TT games, where a player refuses or half asses RPing out their character being intimidated, despite them having failed the roll or whatnot.  You're bound to run into issues by asking a player's character to lose a fight unless you do it in such a way that they look cool even if they lose.

Yup, you hit the nail on the head.

[TheGlyphstone]

Telling them before hand that a monster was about to attack was exactly what I said.  (" I send player A a pm to tell them they get attacked by some creature" )  I didn't say to do it after the attack had already occurred.

Maybe we have tense confusion here, because I'm reading your statement as that you initiate the attack by sending the PM and then start to negotiate the outcome. I'm saying rather than send a PM that declares they got attacked, start with a PM that asks if they're willing to take a dive in a monster attack...and if they say no, the monster never attacks them in the first place, since it won't serve a narrative purpose to do so.

I don't really have a good solution to the bigger issue of players wanting to succeed, though...
1) only take players you know, by previous experience, to be good freeform RPers and able to write themselves failing.
2) Openly state in the recruitment that it's expected for people to fail every so often, and it'll be up to the player's honor to adhere to this narrative convention.

[Moraline]

I don't really have a good solution to the bigger issue of players wanting to succeed, though...
1) only take players you know, by previous experience, to be good freeform RPers and able to write themselves failing.
2) Openly state in the recruitment that it's expected for people to fail every so often, and it'll be up to the player's honor to adhere to this narrative convention.

Your tense wasn't confused. I simply assumed that if I sent a player a PM if they had an issue with it that we could talk about it through PM's. It seemed logical to me. However, I see how you might assume that negotiation wasn't an option in that scenario. Some people don't feel like they can approach a GM to ask them about things - many GM's are dictators. I'm not that type of GM. I like player feedback an discussions so I encourage it.

Responses -

1) That's my problem. Most of my RP's here on E have been solo. I don't know a lot of group players. So picking and choosing isn't an option for me. -- It's part of the reason I'd like a Co-GM *points up to my previous posts from yesterday* and why I came here to discuss it first before posting for a co-GM.

2) I think your right. I will have to make a statement like that. Unfortunately I anticipated my post to be quite long to begin with. I was hoping for other/better options to avoid having to add more to the already long post. I was hoping for some more creative responses.

[Thufir Hawat]

Well, I'd say setting expectations right and only having the players join if it fits their expectations is one of the primary roles of the first post. Setting can even be secondary to that, unless it's part of the expectations.
My suggestion would be to stick it in the first post, in a spoilerblock near the beginning.

[Chrystal]

Just my 2p worth on this...

There are many players out there who actually enjoy failing. Many (although not all by any means) of them are submissive. And even a dominant player will often loose a fight for the sake of a good story.

What I think you will find is that you will probably get a number of applicants for the game, about two thirds of whom will actually start, and half of those will drop out before the first scene change.

This is a sad but undeniable fact of life on Elliquiy. But the half to one third of the players you are left with will usually be the ones who want to play out the story no matter what. You may find that, if you initiate a combat situation, your players may look at the opposition and PM you to ask if you want them to loose.

This is actually a good use for your OOC thread. "Right, guys and gals, you are going to be facing a far superior enemy. Can I have some volunteers to get creamed, please?" Make it open and public, and then if everyone says "No", you can reconsider!

[Moraline]

Good advice and thank you for your input, Chrystal. I was really hoping for responses like yours.