To people from countries other than U.S. (we are not Trump)

[HannibalBarca]

There are a lot of people who are angry, in the United States and elsewhere in the world.  They have every right to be.  That the modern bed of Democracy has fallen to a level where a demagogue and moron of the finest caliber could be elected to the highest office in the land.  It's frustrating and maddening, especially for those who saw Trump for what he is from the beginning, long before he ever ran for office.  He pushed the Birther movement long before he ran for office, and he was a greedy and self-centered individual long before the Birther movement.

Understand that there was a combination of events that led to his election.  There are large numbers of white middle-class Americans who are finally feeling some of the pain that other groups in the U.S. have felt for a long time.  This effect on them has been brought about by the general decline of individual freedoms and economic well-being of the majority in the country, while the wealthiest have seen their lot improve far beyond to obscene levels.  This shouldn't be much of a surprise, really.  The evidence was growing for this for decades, if not longer.

I'm an historian.  I look at the long game.  I'm not one of those Americans who's ever looked at my country and seen the Puritan 'shining beacon on a hill'.  Like any other nation, this one has had flaws, including systemic ones like slavery that tilted the economic, cultural, and political structures since the beginning.  Like most nations, many Americans tend to be myopic when it comes to the flaws and problems of their own nation.  Notice that I use qualifiers like most, many, and some.  I don't deal in superlatives. 

I have Native American ancestry as well as a good upbringing by my parents to be aware of challenges ethnic minorities face here and in other places in the world.  I know the United States isn't the be-all and end-all of the world.  Some day this nation will be reduced to a much weaker state, like all nation-states eventually do.  Human nature wasn't erased or changed with the creation of this country.  In many ways it's already begun.  The question really is, with the interconnectedness of the world now--does the United States have a gentler fall like the British Empire, or a hard one like the Romans?  And does it bring much of the rest of the world with it, or does it grow up out of its adolescence and become a better place for it?

Some of us here are working hard to make things better.  In that way, it's no different than any other nation, full of people; some who try to do well by others, and some who don't.

[Trigon]

The question really is, with the interconnectedness of the world now--does the United States have a gentler fall like the British Empire, or a hard on like the Romans?  And does it bring much of the rest of the world with it, or does it grow up out of its adolescence and become a better place for it?

We should keep in mind that the two world wars played a large part in bringing the colonial empires to an end, so the fall of the British Empire can hardly be considered "gentle". The difference between today and a century ago is that we now have nuclear weapons, and possibly also genetically engineered bio-weapons. So there is quite a bit at stake here. 

[HannibalBarca]

We should keep in mind that the two world wars played a large part in bringing the colonial empires to an end, so the fall of the British Empire can hardly be considered "gentle". The difference between today and a century ago is that we now have nuclear weapons, and possibly also genetically engineered bio-weapons. So there is quite a bit at stake here.

That's true enough.  I was being relative, considering the fall of the Roman Empire brought about a thousand year-long religion-fueled dark age.  The British Empire sowed its own seeds of tyranny and suffering, like any empire does.  Europe in general received a lot back from its combination of modern technology and nationalistic fervor, much of it in destruction and misery.  I just wish following generations would remember what happened...not just what happened in Europe, but everywhere nationalism and empires develop, and remember what happens when you treat people who don't look like you in a shitty way...it always comes back to bite you in some fashion, even if it takes centuries.

[Teo Torriatte]

I just want to reiterate a few things-

Trump's election is not something the American people brought on themselves.

For one thing, there was outside interference in the form of Russian hacking that laid bare conversations that should have remained private, and did remain such for every previous election.

Secondly, the majority of the country didn't even vote for him, he only squeaked by thanks to an archaic voting system that was, ironically, designed to prevent the possibility of a demagogue being able to rile up the population and get them to vote for him despite his disqualifications.

And I will argue until my dying breath that it is irresponsible and shortsighted to view the entire population of any country as some amorphous mass that thinks and acts the same way. One simply needs to open their eyes and watch what is going on inside the U.S.- daily protests, massive efforts to organize the opposition, a media that Trump himself regales against as dishonest, because they continue to shine a light on his despicable behavior, approval numbers that continue to plummet.

WE ARE NOT TRUMP.