Israel's conflict, and what it means for everyone else

[Fox Lokison]

Islamophobia doesn't immediately mean pro-Israel, and antisemitic doesn't automatically mean pro-Islam.  Heck, we've got people in the States that can tick both boxes.

Plus, France's drive is towards (supposed) secularism, which has been attacking religious garments of all kinds. Jewish women wear headcoverings as well, and Jewish men do too. The laws against religious garb target them too. The main group spared is Christians. Others like Sikhs are also targeted by these laws.

But this does raise the point that there's a false dichotomy of "anti-Muslim means pro-Jewish" and "anti-Semitic means pro-Islam"

[Kathadon]

Macron does not seem to be condemning Israel's actions, unless I missed it. And I also believe Le Pen's FN checks both those boxes as well while goose-stepping down the line to find some more.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-05-17/frances-macron-says-to-work-with-jordan-egypt-leaders-on-israel-gaza-ceasefire-talks
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/macron-extends-support-to-israel-urges-return-to-peace-/2241937T

The Macron administration is facing criticism for its seemingly anti-Palestine stance and refusal to condemn Israeli atrocities. The interior ministry prohibited demonstrations in support of Palestine in Paris, fearing a repeat of violent scenes which occurred during rallies in 2014.

Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin repeated that there would be no hatred and anti-Semitism demonstrations in France.

The move was supported by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo who called the decision a "wise move."

“I maintain that given the difficult, inflammable context, of this temptation that we have always known to import the Israeli-Palestinian conflict here, in France and in Paris, I think it is a wise decision and I approve of it,” she told Radio J.

Wait Pro-Palestine marches are banned in France? That does not strike me as secularism considering the constant recurring protests against the government.

An administrative court in Paris rejected a request for interim relief against the ban filed by the Association of Palestinians in lle-de-France ahead of a scheduled demonstration planned for Saturday. Police denied permission citing the risk of “serious disturbances to public order.”

Lawyer Sefen Guez said the court rejected the request without a hearing and the group was moving the appeal to the top administrative court. “France remains the only democratic country to ban these demonstrations,” he said on Twitter.

Several rallies are planned Saturday to mark the declaration of independence of Israel and the exodus of Palestinians called, Nakba.

It is not known whether permission for those rallies was granted.

[RedRose]

Demos are banned at least in many towns. They don't want what happens during demos, whether gilets jaunes or others, nor do they want it to turn bad. Various politicians, support one, the other, both or none. And many people who hate one ethnic group hate the others. But if they hate one more they can support the other. Or they can want Jews to leave and go to Israel. Which means supporting Israel!

[WhatLiesAbove]

After 11 days, and the death of 244 civilians, the cease-fire between Gaza and Israel has been reached and enacted. The Egyptian military is sending delegates to both areas to secure the terms of the cease-fire.

I can only pray that this is a good sign.

The Latest

[Skynet]

Double-posted in the News thread, but the doctor responsible for organizing efforts against the coronavirus pandemic in Gaza along with 12 family members were killed in an airstrike. There was no warning for this one unlike some previous ones.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57148580

It's good to hear that a ceasefire's been reached, but unfortunately the aftereffects and damage will persist for far longer.

[Skynet]

Well, looks like the ceasefire isn't going to last much longer. :/

Israeli police got into fights with Palestinians outside the al-Aqsa Mosque again. The officers also attacked journalists even when they shown their press credentials.

[Fox Lokison]

I find myself unsurprised. The article I linked earlier had Netanyahu's statements about the talks. They don't sound like words of peace. They don't sound like words of tolerance. They've decided there's an enemy, and they're using whatever justification they can.

"Israel has made its choice. We will take all steps necessary to defend our people," he told the U.N. "Now, you must make yours. The world is watching."

This man should not be in charge, is my opinion.

[Kathadon]

And Netanyahu is cruising to another term as PM as his centrist and left leaning opponent's coalition crumbles.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israels-prime-minister-heading-fifth-085502269.html

All while Hamas declares victory, making Fatah in the West Bank seem weak and ineffective with their calls for a general Palestinian strike before elections this year.

All this death over crass politics.

[Thufir Hawat]

And Netanyahu is cruising to another term as PM as his centrist and left leaning opponent's coalition crumbles.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israels-prime-minister-heading-fifth-085502269.html

Well, did anyone believe for a split second that there's another reason for this short conflict 8-)?
After all, "staying out of prison" is pretty high up all the politicians lists of priorities >:)!

[Kathadon]

Well, did anyone believe for a split second that there's another reason for this short conflict 8-)?
After all, "staying out of prison" is pretty high up all the politicians lists of priorities >:)!

That is the thing to me. The entire mess with the evictions in East Jerusalem? That has been ongoing and ultimately has not 100% been settled in the Israeli courts yet. But that crack down at the third holiest Muslim site? That reeks of Netanyahu's parties' tactics. "Look how tough we are, law and order" shit. Did he mean to start a conflict with Hamas knowing that they would jump at the chance to saber rattle ahead of Palestinian elections? I really think so. I mean they fired off a couple rockets over a new round of sanctions back in December. Did he expect them to pop off as much as they did? I am not sure, but either way, that was a bonus. Allowing the IDF to "mow the lawn." He gets to stay in power and out of jail, his political opponents look weak, and the IDF gets to cut down on Hamas' power base.

And I am sure Hamas knew this too. Hamas NEED's Netanyahu in power in Israel, not a centrist left leaning coalition. That might try actual negotiations with Fatah's PA in the West Bank. Which could legitimise Fatah again, all before Palestinian elections. Hamas is desperate to be legitimised on the world stage as the sole Palestinian government, and if they get control of the West Bank and the PA they have real negotiating power. Something they have a real shot at if these elections go forward.

Yet they also needed to bolster their right flank in Gaza against the Palestinian Islamic Jihad party. Both sides basically calls the other a corrupt criminal group (neither are wrong.) But the big rub is Islamic Jihad is entirely in the pocket of Iran. Hamas is not well liked in Gaza, but just like Netanyahu if they look strong they increase their odds in an election.

From a 2019 article: According to Abu Toameh, “Hamas wants to preserve the ceasefire understandings with Israel so as to remain in power. PIJ, on the other hand, wants to continue launching terror attacks against Israel…. to appease their patrons in Tehran, and, second, to scores points on the Palestinian street by showing that, unlike Hamas, they are not prepared to make any concessions to the ‘Zionist enemy.’” The leaders of Hamas were also warned if the group joined in attacks on Israel, they might become targets.

I would love to know just how many PIJ militants were killed in these last round of strikes. I would not put it past Hamas, or the PIJ, to secretly tip off the IDF with intelligence so to damage their rival.

[Skynet]

The Israeli newspaper Haaretz published photographs of all 67 Palestinian children killed by IDF airstrikes on its Hebrew edition's frontpage. "This is the Price of War," it read.

[Thufir Hawat]

Hamas NEED's Netanyahu in power in Israel, not a centrist left leaning coalition.

Yup, that's the crux of the problem. The conflict has been going for so long, there are now entire structures - parties, politicians, other groups - whose livelihood would be threatened if it was resolved, not to mention their identity is centered around it. At the very least they'd have to learn some new tricks.
And those exist on both sides.

Also, to be honest, I also suspect you might be overestimating how much concessions Israeli "centrist left-leaning coalition" would be prepared to make. That's also tied to the conflict continuing for so long that it has almost normalized its own existence (in many people's minds). How many people in Israel remember a time before the conflict started?

And then we come to the fact that the minimal demands of the two sides simply might not have sufficient overlap to allow for a deal...now or in the future 8-).

No, I don't offer a solution, merely some observations.

[Haibane]

Looks like Netanyahu is soon to be out with a coalition government now being formed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57336574

[elone]

I think Bennett is more far right than Netanyahu, but any change is worth trying. When he is done we get a more centrist government. None of them are for justice for the Palestinians and  will continue the apartheid regime and colonial occupation of all the land.  Only the US boycott coupled with stiff sanctions will ever get a change from Israel. The world is beginning to take note though.  Biden does not seem ready to do anything about the human rights abuses there, although he speaks loudly about them in the rest of the world.

[Kathadon]

I think Bennett is more far right than Netanyahu, but any change is worth trying. When he is done we get a more centrist government. None of them are for justice for the Palestinians and  will continue the apartheid regime and colonial occupation of all the land.  Only the US boycott coupled with stiff sanctions will ever get a change from Israel. The world is beginning to take note though.  Biden does not seem ready to do anything about the human rights abuses there, although he speaks loudly about them in the rest of the world.

You are not wrong. This man was Netanyahu’s chief of staff, was Israeli special forces, is a multi-millionaire tech bro, a former leader of the West Bank settlement movement, and was one of the sponsors of the most racist law in Israeli history.

From a 2013 New Yorker article: Closer to his ideological core is an unswerving conviction that the Palestinian Arabs of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem might as well relinquish their hopes for a sovereign state. The Green Line, which demarcates the occupied territories from Israel proper, “has no meaning,” he says, and only a friyer, a sucker, would think otherwise. As one of his slick campaign ads says, “There are certain things that most of us understand will never happen: ‘The Sopranos’ are not coming back for another season . . . and there will never be a peace plan with the Palestinians.” If Bennett becomes Prime Minister someday—and his ambition is as plump and glaring as a harvest moon—he intends to annex most of the West Bank and let Arab cities like Ramallah, Nablus, and Jenin be “self-governing” but “under Israeli security.”

“I will do everything in my power to make sure they never get a state,” he confidently told Remnick (the article's author) of the Palestinians. The center-left-Arab coalition has made a deal with the devil to oust Netanyahu. They are trading one corrupt right winger for another right winger for two years. Even if Bibi is out, this does not look like a good thing.

[Skynet]

It isn't necessarily 'breaking news,' but there's a political YouTuber who made two very informative and relevant videos on current events here. He does go for an 'edutainment' feel and humor being subjective may not be for everyone, but figured it worth linking.

How To Maybe Criticize Isreal?

Uncomplicating The "Complicated" Palestine/Israel Conflict.

[Roen]

As an Israeli Centrist with a left-wing lean, I completely believe that the whole Gaza operation and recent deterioration in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was the outcome of a deliberate machination by Netanyahu, orchestrated to prevent his opposition from forming a coalition that would finally take him down. I'm not alone in this, though the right wing considers this to be a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory.

The best proof to that is the fact that the whole thing started just as the opposition was about to announce their alternative government with the president's blessing. Thankfully, Netanyahu has failed and he is definitely being taken down.

Would the one coming in his place be any better? Maybe.
Would the new government mean peace and justice to the Palestinian people? Probably not.
But getting a corrupt and greedy PM out of office, even if for just one term, is a good step in the right direction.

[Haibane]

Netanyahu is out

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57462470

[Vanessasciet]

I keep meeting people at UT who only agree with what their party believes in, and do so without question. The importance of an unbiased opinion is out, and it doesnt matter where you land from liberal to conservative, its "are you democrat or republican?"


...and Arthur is right, what happened to compromise?

[Skynet]

I keep meeting people at UT who only agree with what their party believes in, and do so without question. The importance of an unbiased opinion is out, and it doesnt matter where you land from liberal to conservative, its "are you democrat or republican?"


...and Arthur is right, what happened to compromise?

Who's Arthur in this case?

[Oniya]

Who's Arthur in this case?

Ninety percent sure that 'Vanessa' here is a bot.

[Thufir Hawat]

Who's Arthur in this case?

I suspect this is a reference to Arthur Schlesinger.

[Oniya]

I mean, the last text-bot I caught had lifted someone's post off of an old Sonic Youth fan-board.  I wouldn't give it a whole lot of significance.

[Skynet]

While I discussed it in an earlier post, the Crash Course YouTube channel did a good overview of how access to water supplies (and more importantly its unequal distribution in regards to Palestinians) is one of the major obstacles to the peace process.

[WhatLiesAbove]

I am reviving this post in the wake of the killing of an American Journalist in Israel.

It is no secret that I have exceptional love for the State of Israel. It is no secret that I am Jewish. It is for these reasons that I feel it necessary to come out against the actions of Israel for killing a Muslim-American. The religious fanatics within the Jewish faith DO NOT speak for Jews as a whole. Israeli Nationalists (who are not Zionists....Zionists think that Israel deserves to exist as a State. Israeli Nationalists think that Palestinians should be killed because G-d says so) DO NOT speak for Judaism or Israel.

The military screwed up. The government was in the wrong. It needs to be a Jewish Zionist person who says so. And so it is.