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The Elliquian Herald & Post
Issue 74 (Autumn) ~ August thru October 2017

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Author Topic: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies  (Read 211121 times)

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Offline wander

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3550 on: November 20, 2017, 12:30:15 PM »
As Glyph mentioned, it needs to go over it's budget by some to cover the advertising to even turn a profit. I believe in comparison that the new Blade Runner actually performed better and at least barely made it's budget back and that's been called the flop of the summer. Justice League is yet to even reach it's budget. Which is sad, I'm not cheery about that at all. It seems a fun film, I was planning to see it this week and most reviews have basically said it's 'meh, it's fine filler, won't need to see it again once you seen it'. For DCEU, that's not the worst their films have been reviewed as.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3551 on: November 20, 2017, 01:23:57 PM »
Not to mention that DC has put a lot of hope and investment into this being the launching point for the full DCMU franchise. They were depending on an Avengers-level breakout hit to compete with Marvel in the film arena, but stuttered repeatedly with MoS, BvS, SS, with WW as the lone bright spot. They needed far more than a 'meh, it's not horrible' at this point, and they failed to get it.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3552 on: November 20, 2017, 01:51:03 PM »
I believe in comparison that the new Blade Runner actually performed better
BR2049 domestic opening weekend $33M or 18% of the budget, JL $96M or 34% of the budget.

Not sure Blade Runner 2049 is a good example of a 'flop'. The original movie was a commercial disaster, $33M global box office on a $28M budget but it eventually became a cult success through video and directors cuts etc. etc. BR2049 took $250M on a $180M budget which in terms of ROI meant it outperformed the original (not by huge amount). But knowing what the commercial success of the original was why would anybody expect BR2049 to turn over half a billion? BR2049 was a flop because it didn't meet certain financial expectations but if those expectations are wrong then is it really a flop?

'....won't need to see it again once you seen it'.
neatly describing about 99.99% of all movies  ;D

So back to JL, the critics writing articles about it being a flop are being disingenuous. On one hand they predict this huge opening weekend, while at the same time saying the film is terrible and airing all the dirty laundry about reshoots and internal politics. Those negative reviews will have effected the box office (as will the previous films) and as a result the opening weekend wasn't fantastic. Now the 'flop' articles are using that lower than expected box office as proof\justification for the negative reviews. But if they are such experts then their opening weekend predictions should have been much closer to what happened, and that they were wrong doesn't give me more confidence in their ability to accurately review and critique the content.

Offline wander

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3553 on: November 20, 2017, 01:57:24 PM »
So basically you're saying it's not going to do well because it's not the darling of the film critic world, aka a Marvel movie.

Btw mia, that snark isn't directed at you, rather how film is working atm. I've been finding the Marvel films to be really boring and safe recently, super forgettable and yet they keep getting those 90%+ reviews and raking the cash in. So Kevin Fiege can make roughly the same movie yet again though swap the characters and setting to something new and think noone's realised yet.

And yet, people are eating them up.

Not the thread for it, though I could say exactly the same for the new Star Wars annual movies that'll go on to the heat death of the universe now.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3554 on: November 20, 2017, 02:46:18 PM »
So basically you're saying it's not going to do well because it's not the darling of the film critic world, aka a Marvel movie.
Oh dear Lord no. There are things wrong with all of the DCEU movies; Wonder Woman had a weak third act, Superman v Zod in MoS was an audio\visual assault that gave me a headache etc. However they are nowhere near as bad as the critics would make out. There is also the internal politics and how they are reported, because DCEU is having a rougher time all the changes are given an extra ration of DOOM, Synder leaving JL DOOOM!!!! Afleck's film that wasn't part of the original line up in doubt DOOOOM!!!! etc. But Edgar Wright leaving Ant-Man was little more than a road bump to the MCU juggernaut. Yes, DC have brought some of that press on themselves but I think there's also a certain perverse delight from certain quarters in seeing them fail. The DCEU management hasn't made life easy for itself and they have to take the blame for that. The timing of JL's release sucks, there are three blockbuster films released over four weeks and people only have so much money; if people want to see all three but can only afford to see one I'm guessing most would pick Last Jedi, if they can afford two then Thor is going to win out because the MCU has a better track record it's more of a known quantity.

And this is tongue in cheek but despite all the bad press the DCEU gets, it's notched up an Oscar while the MCU has cancelled several projects. Agent Carter was cancelled after 2 seasons which is a failure, the Inhumans movie was cancelled but they got their PR department to spin than one as a sideways move to TV instead of a cancelation, and nobody expects the Inhumans TV show to make a return but because it was promoted as a mini-series it can be spun not as a cancelation but as a natural end to the story, they never planned for a second season. So three failed projects and one of them failed twice.

Btw mia, that snark isn't directed at you, rather how film is working atm. I've been finding the Marvel films to be really boring and safe recently, super forgettable and yet they keep getting those 90%+ reviews and raking the cash in. So Kevin Fiege can make roughly the same movie yet again though swap the characters and setting to something new and think noone's realised yet.
I've had the same conversation with someone else recently. The beginning of Raganok when Thor is on the chain, you could have replaced Thor with Iron Man, Star Lord or Ant-man kept the dialogue the same and I doubt many people would have noticed.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3555 on: November 20, 2017, 04:29:08 PM »
Anyway on a lighter note, there goes 4 hours of Monday\Tuesday

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3556 on: November 20, 2017, 05:32:20 PM »
Sounds like DC's best bet right now would be to scrap everything they've done with the DCEU so far and reboot it with the proposed Flashpoint movie; X-Men Days of Future Past did it, so why not? Then you'd have a much less crappy foundation to build on for the standalone characters who haven't had their movies yet, and potentially give a more plausible entry point for characters we haven't seen yet to come onto the scene sooner (Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern). Both Justice League: War and The Flashpoint Paradox were fucking AMAZING animated movies, surely making those into live-action adaptations can't be that taxing if the script is the most vital part. Plus that could excuse there being different actors if they wanted to recast.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3557 on: November 20, 2017, 05:59:12 PM »
After personally watching Thor Ragnorak and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 this year. I do have to agree that the Marvel movies are beginning to rely more on comedy. This will probably not be the case with Infinity Wars since its being written by the Russos and this is part 1 of the endgame these movies have been building up.

This could work in DC's favor actually, if the Marvel movies start to rely more and more on jokes and humor then the more serious story lines with subtle jokes would be a nice alternative in comparison. That said Snyder would need to go, he's not Christopher Nolan and he's not either of the Russo Brothers. Three big movies that were meant to serve as the backbone of this cinematic universe have failed under his helm as Director with another were he was just producer (Suicide Squad). The idea of being an alternative to Marvel is good, but the execution could have been a lot better.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3558 on: November 20, 2017, 06:15:41 PM »
The idea of being an alternative to Marvel is good, but the execution could have been a lot better.

That's really the best way to put it, I couldn't have said it better. Marvel being the lighter feel-good movies with groundbreaking action and more likeable characters and DC the darker, thought-provoking existential stories and character studies. So far only Batman Begins and The Dark Knight have been able to live up to that (I haven't seen Wonder Woman yet) so the DCEU needs to get on that or start from scratch. I doubt Aquaman is where they're going to start getting things going in the right direction, if they decide to keep going with their diminishing returns before taking a break and re-thinking things. This is really not the universe for making the Batgirl, Harley Quinn, Birds of Prey, etc., movies.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3559 on: November 22, 2017, 10:18:51 PM »
According to recent reports Henry Cavill is under contract for one more Superman appearance. That said he seems interested in continuing to play the role so he may renew it with Warner Bros.

In other news Twitter has a new topic in the form of the scenes where Cavill's moustache was CGI'd out. To me the facial expression is the only thing I think looks weird, but I'm not sure since I haven't seen the movie. I'm not sure if this expression is where he was just smiling or its what a camera caught while he was talking.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 10:20:39 PM by CaptainNexus616 »

Offline Trieste

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3560 on: November 22, 2017, 11:15:02 PM »
I really didnít notice, but my husband was insistent that there was something weird with his mouth. We saw the movie Sunday.

I liked Batfleck (had not seen him previously in the role).

Kinda over superhero movies at this point, though. And, despite having been a huge fan all my life, Iím also over Star Wars (please donít lynch me). I think the next movie will be hard to see since Carrie died.  -_-

Back on the topic of superhero movies, Iím kind of low-key pissed that Thor doesnít have the golden mane of pretty anymore.

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3561 on: November 22, 2017, 11:43:01 PM »

Kinda over superhero movies at this point, though. And, despite having been a huge fan all my life, Iím also over Star Wars (please donít lynch me). I think the next movie will be hard to see since Carrie died.  -_-


To be honest I hear where you are coming from. I've been a long term Star Wars fan myself and it will be hard now that she's died. Another thing I have noticed...I remember as a kid watching the Millennium Falcon go to lightspeed and the Death Star blowing up a planet as mind blowing.

After watching Guardians of the Galaxy and more modern Sci-Fi then Star Wars I can't help but notice....it feels like despite 30 years having passed the universe isn't really showing us anything new. Like in terms of battles or tech, JJ and Disney are just showing us things by the numbers.  They aren't being bold and showing the universe growing, which is hurting them.

Back on the topic of superhero movies, Iím kind of low-key pissed that Thor doesnít have the golden mane of pretty anymore.

RIP Thor's magnificent hair 2011-2017. He reminds me more of his younger bro Liam now. I can see more of the resemblance.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3562 on: November 23, 2017, 08:27:57 AM »
A thought occurs. Everyone's bound to have seen the second Black Panther trailer by now, so what does everyone think about the fact that both Black Panther and his nemesis Kilmonger are going to be wearing those Vibranium suits, rendering them both effectively invincible? It shows them fighting in close combat for a bit, but what exactly are they hoping to accomplish if they can't penetrate the other's armor?

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3563 on: November 23, 2017, 08:57:49 AM »
With this being the nation that owns Vibranium I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with some bypass excuse or weapon if necessary.

Or

When the straight up fight fails. They could pull a Doctor Strange and have him defeat Kilmonger without a straight up fight. "Dormmanu, I've come to bargain!"

This is the last movie before Infinity Wars yet to be released so things could get interesting.


Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3564 on: November 23, 2017, 09:01:47 AM »
Maybe Vibranium is the only thing that can penetrate Vibranium?

Offline wander

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3565 on: November 23, 2017, 11:45:40 AM »
Maybe Vibranium is the only thing that can penetrate Vibranium?

Very much most likely it's this.

Online Arkaniel

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3566 on: November 25, 2017, 04:52:32 PM »
I can only say that I enjoyed watching Justice League. It was dark, gritty, with great looking action scenes and the only negatives I can mention is indeed the not all together great cgi job on Cavil and the somewhat off looking jawline of Affleck.

My friends and wife all Enjoyed it and everyone in our theatre hall liked it enough that several people were applauding.

We never, ever pay any attention to the critics, because Iíve never, ever enjoyed watching a movie the critics in my country actually approved off.

Iím a major marvel fan, but I also thought Man of Steel was an excellent movie to be enjoyed watching, the best Superman movie and incarnation so far. BvS was a little bit... meh... because of that in my opinion weird injustice reference in the middle part. Wonder Woman was a lot of fun, probably the best DC movie since the Dark Knight, though at my core, Iím always a Superman fan when it comes to DC. Justice league was at least equal to man of steel and Wonder Woman in my opinion and I will be watching it again as soon as itís either on blu ray or Netflix.

Star Wars, coming soon!

Thor Ragnarok was pretty awesome, by the way.

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3567 on: November 25, 2017, 04:58:32 PM »
BvS was a little bit... meh... because of that in my opinion weird injustice reference in the middle part.
Injustice reference?

Online Arkaniel

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3568 on: November 25, 2017, 05:05:56 PM »
That whole dream of Batman of a future where he was fighting a mad superman who basically ruled the world etc..

Offline mia h

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3569 on: November 25, 2017, 05:26:06 PM »
Oh you mean the 'Knightmare' sequence. I wouldn't say that exactly based on Injustice, it felt it had a little bit more in common with the most recent Earth-2 run but it's not as if that was the world's most popular comic.

Offline wander

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3570 on: November 25, 2017, 09:13:29 PM »
It was more I'd say for Injustice given the Evil Superman and his 'Regime' styled soldiers, though yeah it also had Nu52 Earth-2 airs to it also, with the parademons etc.

On-topic, I almost went to see Justice League earlier, though after a long day me and my mate decided to go home after our run around town rather than end the day with the cinema trip. We both realised we want to see it though, so maybe next weekend it could happen on my end.

Offline Deamonbane

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Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3571 on: November 29, 2017, 11:08:48 AM »


"Get this man a Shield."

Chills.

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3572 on: November 29, 2017, 04:31:50 PM »
I saw the leaked trailer before. This one didn't have the Guardians crashing into Thor while he was floating out in space and Rocket crying out in disgust, "Ew, get it off the glass! Turn on the wipers!"
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 04:38:45 PM by Mathim »

Offline CaptainNexus616

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3573 on: November 29, 2017, 08:20:23 PM »
I don't care.

This trailer was still awesome!

Offline MathimTopic starter

Re: The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies
« Reply #3574 on: November 29, 2017, 10:15:55 PM »
Definitely more compelling than Justice League's trailers. Those were all flash with no substance, this one really cut back on flash but the substance was extremely heavy. Because we care so goddamn much about these characters by now after knowing them for so long, and half the damn Justice League didn't even get proper introductions before their ensemble movie so it couldn't be helped.