Autism or Affectation?

[Dashenka]

Not too long ago I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, which is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD). To come to this diagnose, I've had to take some tests, mostly oral and a lot of questions on how I was when I was younger. I've always felt a sort of blockage that limited me from doing certain things but I never thought of autism until now. Now having the diagnose fo me doesn't change anything. I anything, it's a relief because finally after all these years I now know what it is.

People around me, who don't know me think it's nothing and claim my psychologist has given the diagnose way too easily. When they ask me what I have that is autism related I always tell them the compulsive and ritualistic behaviour I have. I sort everything (when I was at the psychologist, I had to sort the pens on his desk from big to small, which made his job diagnosing me a lot easier ) and need a fixed schedule to do things. I cannot do things spontaneously. When I tell them that, a lot of people tell me they must have autism as well because they have the same thing, not understanding that it's just a few things of the Asperger syndrome.

Because I'm 27 and only been given the diagnose now, a lot of people talk down the autism, saying it's just a trend and that people are given the diagnose too easily. Before this I never took much notice to autism but now that I have it, I found I need to be careful who I say it too, because of the negativity that seems to hang around the whole thing. Personally I think most people think of autistic people as people who never go out, never make eye contact or can hardly talk, which is one of the three forms of ASD. The other two, Asperger and PDD-NOS, are not that common or not as visible.

I'm running my own business and I got some friends so I don't fit into the 'classic' view people have of autism and because of that, I often get the comment it's just affectation, rather than me actually having a real problem.

Does anybody have experiences with this or something similar and how do you handle with these people who don't seem to understand that Asperger is a real condition and that it can really block or limit people in their day to day living.

[Moraline]

I know a few people here on this forum that have Asperger Syndrome. I'm sure a few of them will pop in here to say hi and let you know that you're not alone.

[Yukina]

I have Aspergers Syndrome as well. To be honest, I've done what I've done to most people in real life who belittle me. I tune them out. Though I don't encounter problems related to it that often because it's a fact I don't shout out. In my opinion, there is no single way to describe people with ASD. All of them just tend to function different. In the end to me, they are just like people, all having different qualities and quirks at varying levels. For example, there are the sad or snarky such as myself, while others with ASD I have met happen to very enthusiastic.

(Sorry if I delved on the questions a bit)

[Dashenka]

I know everybody is different and I don't care too much about what people think either but I encounter some issues at work when I'm dealing with clients. I'm not telling them what I have but I often think they think of me as weird or something or rude. I am who I am and the people I love accept me for what I am and to me that is all that matters. Things that come naturally to others, don't come to me at all and in my job as travel agent, that sometimes clashes.

Also most of my family think I'm just seeking attention. Saying I'm perfectly normal and I can't get to their heads that what I feel sometimes is not normal and I need some help with that. I've lived with it for 27 years, so I'm not a classic case of severe autism like you see in some movies but still I feel limited sometimes and that's the hard part. Since I've gotten the diagnosis I also feel the quirks coming with the Asperger are getting stronger, which isn't really helping at the moment.

[Yukina]

To be honest, I don't really have any other advice to give you. Good luck nonetheless.

[Dashenka]

Thanks :)

[Chrystal]

*hugs a fellow aspie*

I'm self diagnosed, admittedly, but seriously, I have 90% of the symptoms, and the self diagnosis test I took on-line said I was actually autistic - which i took with a pinch of salt, as I know how inaccurate these internet things can be.

But I have had this confirmed by other people who know me.

I actually find it to be a great relief knowing that actually there is something physiological and it's not just me!

I'm actually at the higher end of the spectrum but I didn't used to be. In fact, it has been internet role playing that has helped me more than anything with my interpersonal skills. Being able to talk openly and honestly with people who have no idea who I am, who won't tease or judge or condemn, is actually very therapeutic, and putting myself in situations that I wouldn't be able to cope with in real life is actually a great way  of pushing back my boundaries.

If it hadn't been for the internet, I would never be able to work retail!

[Dashenka]

Don't you have the feeling things got 'worse' after you knew you had it?

I mean for examply my schedule has always been important to me. I just need to know what I have to do in two hours time. But lately, I completely freak out when something comes up. I get nervous, restless and even try to get away from it.

First time I realized it (which got the whole train rolling) was when I got the dog. I didn't know what it was but I had my schedule and set times for everything and then I got a puppy and she didn't really pay attention to any of it. It freaked me out but it does now even more. The dog's adapted but I sort of haven't.

[Oniya]

Receiving a diagnosis of any sort is likely to make you hyper-aware of the symptoms associated with that diagnosis.  It also gives you a road map for what you are likely to deal with.  I'm myopic - so I compensate with lenses.  My husband is somewhat dyslexic - so he compensates by taking extra care to get things spelled correctly (sometimes consulting his favorite volunteer editor *waves*.)  People who are diabetic compensate with dietary changes or insulin injections. 

If people are telling you that they perceive you as rude, then that tells you that there is something that you need to work on.  You may have to sit down with a roommate or trusted friend and ask for honest feedback about why you might be perceived as rude.  When you are aware of the behavior, then you can work on compensating for it.  It might be as simple as adjusting the amount of eye contact you make, or something more complex like trying to imagine how your phrasing might sound to someone else.

The things that don't come naturally to us are the things that we all have to put extra effort into.  Organization doesn't come naturally to me, but it does to my older sister.  That doesn't mean I don't have a chance of becoming organized, just that it is more of a challenge for me to overcome.

[Irishfire87]

I'm an aspie too.  I was diagnosed quite a while ago.  What people don't realize about Asperger's is how high functioning most people are that have it.  Back in 7th and 8th Grade I was in Gifted and Talented and Special Ed (This was more about procrastination and distractions than anything else as I was only in it for a couple of years) in the same year.  There was a lot I had to overcome because of it like my social awkwardness.  People didn't understand it though because my math homework was other people's extra credit... until I got into Algebra...  That there is as interesting a story as any.

The best way to handle people that don't believe you is to show them the symptoms of it on a website that details them if they are willing to learn about it.  Other people however that are too set in beliefs or just too ignorant to let you explain it to them or to learn about it need just be ignored which can be hard at times.  The important thing though is having been diagnosed like you or finding out about it like Chrystal you learn a lot about how to cope with Asperger's and just knowing what's going on with you.  It's more important that you understand yourself than it is that other people do.

That being said people with Asperger's are usually really good with numbers which can really help with running a business.  I also work with a lot of customers that are 'summer folks' around where I live and it can be hard dealing with people that have no idea what you're going through and don't really care to know if it doesn't benefit them so I understand what that is like.  Asperger's symptoms really can get worse with age but the important thing is just understanding your quirks and trying to work on them.  For me one of the harder ones to overcome was just keeping eye contact with someone that I didn't have strong trust in and it is still difficult to this day for me to keep eye contact.  The only reason I learned to cope as well as I have was an Aspie support group that I used to go to once every one or two weeks.

I'm sorry if this came across as rambling more than helpful.  I was just speaking my mind rather than composing it.  If you ever need anyone to talk to about it I'll be more than glad to try to help. 

[Chrystal]

Don't you have the feeling things got 'worse' after you knew you had it?

I mean for examply my schedule has always been important to me. I just need to know what I have to do in two hours time. But lately, I completely freak out when something comes up. I get nervous, restless and even try to get away from it.

First time I realized it (which got the whole train rolling) was when I got the dog. I didn't know what it was but I had my schedule and set times for everything and then I got a puppy and she didn't really pay attention to any of it. It freaked me out but it does now even more. The dog's adapted but I sort of haven't.

Honey, I think you are confusing developing a condition with having a condition identified.

It sounds to me that your condition is getting worse, and you need to take steps to improve it.

For me, I have always had these symptoms - I have never been able to deal with people, or stressful situations, I've always been shy, I've always been obsessive about certain things, I've always had a high IQ, and a vivid imagination and bugger-all ability to express my imagination - Don't be fooled by my writing on here, this ability to write is something I have developed recently, as with my ability to paint (which is no where near as good). I've always had difficulty getting ideas that seem obvious to me across to other people, and at the same time having trouble understanding what the hell it is they are on about. I have never been able to read people's emotions or empathise with them. I've always had trouble making friends.

To be able to put a label on the condition, to say "This is because I'm Asperger's Syndrome", has actually helped me cope. I'm not some sort of freak! I have a medical condition that explains it all. I means I canm find others like myself who have similar experiences. It also means there is a treatment . Being "self diagnosed", I'm also "self treating", basically by forcing myself to do things that make me feel like panicking and curling up into a little ball. And slowly, over time, I have improved.

So, Dasha, babe, don't give up. There is hope. The first stage to fixing a problem is identifying it. Now you know you have Asperger's, you can do something about it. But think of this: If you didn't know you had it, you would still be having the same symptoms, you just wouldn't know why.

When i was a kid, they didn't have a diagnosis for Asperger's. They had only just figured out what autism was. There was no way I was ever going to be diagnosed correctly - I was labled as a "bright but naughty" child with a poor attention span and a tendency to act up if I didn't get my own way. The fact that I was incapable of understanding why I couldn't have my own way never crossed my parents' or teachers' minds!

Anyway, I'm rambling (I think that's a minor symptom too - a tendency to ramble. Not a conclusive one but put it with the others... lol).

My point is, being diagnosed is not the end of the world, it's the beginning of a new one - the start of the fight back!

I'm sorry if this came across as rambling more than helpful.  I was just speaking my mind rather than composing it.  If you ever need anyone to talk to about it I'll be more than glad to try to help. 

I rest my case, lol...

[Dashenka]

All of you are right but knowing you have it and dealing with it is a different thing. How can you train something you are comfortable with? Sure I'm not a big fan of groups but that is why my girlfriend and business partner usually does the talking to the customers and I make the phonecalls and do the bookings and all. I'm fine with that, been that all my life.

But the other day a couple of friends invited us out that same night and rather than just saying yes, I said no and kept bringing up excuses that made no sense. When Vika asked me why I said no, all I could say that I wasn't comfortable with going out on such short notice. That is my main issue I guess.

I'm extremely creative, bright, orderly (to the point where it gets annoying for others) and in a small group, actually quite social but don't ask me to do something that is out of my schedule or unplanned. I hate surprises. Vika never understood why but now she does so she won't bring me surprises anymore. Knowing it's Aspergers has put the puzzle together for me so I thought it would be a closing of the chapter and move on with my life.

Instead I'm feeling this particular issue getting bigger up to a point where I have the same cookies with tea every day, the same lunch at the same time each day. I think it's just that I want to be more spontaneous than I am right now and by wanting it, the feeling of being blocked is getting stronger and stronger. Guess I should talk to this with my councillor.

Also what you two already said, I can't organize my brain so when I post stuff like this, it's all a mish mash of words and things that aren't very well put together :) Also have got no concentration. You should have seen me and my puppy (Jack Russel Terrier ADHD Dog) at the puppyclass. She could only sit for two seconds before she got distracted, a second shorter than I could manage to keep my concentration.

Which is why I failed most educations I enrolled and ended up with no grades or anything. I spend my time at school drawing pictures in my notes.  O:)

[Irishfire87]

Yeah, that's probably one of the reasons I got voted most artistic in my class.  I practiced all through class.  It is hard though and I wish I could help, but like you I say no to a lot of things if they weren't already planned out unless I'm the one coming up with the idea.  I don't necessarily stick to a tight schedule but I don't like surprises or change and if asked why I didn't want to go do something I tell them honestly I don't know or I don't really like those people when I have no reason not to.   With me it sounds kind of similar to my eye contact issue in that it's something I have intentionally force myself to do even though it's something that is almost a reflex.  It sucks pushing yourself out of your comfort zone but if you stay aware of it is easier to push yourself to do it and with myself at least I usually enjoy the trip/dinner even though I really didn't want to do it in the first place.

That being said I understand how hard it is and in my case it's like preaching to the choir because I to the day have that issue and don't deal well with it even though I know that I'd enjoy doing it if I just went.

[Kolya]

I'm in a very similar position to you, Dashenka. Last August I was diagnosed with ASD and since then I've had doubts that maybe the diagnosis was given too easily, but I've come to realise that it doesn't matter if you have it or you don't. You are who you are and being labelled as anything will not change that. Autism isn't an illness, it's what makes us who we are. So what if we're slightly different? Let those people think they're better than you because they don't have a label.

In short, don't let the opinions of others stop you from enjoying who you are. My family act as if I have no issues (the main problems I have are sensory related) and it irritates me a little but I don't let it bother me too much, they're in the wrong not me.

[Oniya]

One very important thing to remember is that your counselor is going to be your best source for information about coping methods, because he or she has spent the most time talking to you and learning about your situation, in addition to having all the years of study involved with the management of ASD.  As Chrystal said, information that you get from online - even from well-intentioned sources - is to be taken with a grain of salt, because (as Irishfire87 said) all cases are different.

[Florence]

My school counselor back in highschool said I most likely have Asberger Syndome, but I don't think I've ever been officially diagnosed with it.

That said, I do fit the bill in some ways. I actually don't like rigidly defining my own schedule, I like just freely doing whatever comes to me. But anyone who knows me can attest that I'm absolutely awful when it comes to having to stop what I'm doing on short notice to do something else. Even if its something fun. If I'm told there's a party going on later that day, I tend to stress about things I wanted to do and having to change my plans for the day, even though, once I get there, I usually have a blast. Hence why, whenever possible, I try to remind people to let me know about stuff like that a day or two in advance.

Of course, I've always just been a jumble of mental symptoms. I have a few nervous ticks, I'm terrified of change, I'm prone to anxiety and depression, I can get frustrated easily and I'm somewhat of a hypochondriac. Oh, and I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid, and to this day I basically have the attention span of a goldfish.

But when I was younger I knew people who were severely autistic, had Tourettes Syndrome, were severely bipolar, etc.

All in all, I think I got it pretty nice.

[Dashenka]

Thank you all guys for the support.

I guess I just have to make sure I don't let things get worse in terms of my rigidity but because it worries me, it probably will, so I will have to talk about that with my councillor.
Had some other issues when I was younger that I think prevented everybody from seeing the autism and now that everything has settled down as well as myself settling down in a new country and life, it sort of showed up :)

Thanks again.

[Sabby]

Autism can be really confusing... my issues with it are communication and emotions, but I've found that the condition is so damn broad that learning about it only takes you so far. You can know everything there is to know about Autism and still not know where to start in helping yourself. A councillor or something would be a very wise move. An impartial third party will help immensely in figuring out what exactly you feel needs work.

[Lovestheclassics]

A few quick thoughts
- aspergers is a spectrum disorder which means that your particular constellation of quirks may, like a snowflake, share many character tics with others with same diagnosis but also be entirely individual in its expression
- celebrate and leverage your strengths even as you tackle areas of improvement
- charm goes a long way when you are quirky
- medication is worth considering as are other tools that provide scaffolding for growth
- I'd hug you if I could

[alextaylor]

Fuck modern psychology.

Yeah, I was diagnosed with autism when I was in school. Didn't get along with people. Still don't. Coped with IRC because it's just plain awkward for me to communicate with people and make small talk like everyone else.

My parents are both psychologists. I have plenty of psychology books at home. They focus down into really narrow fields, often miss the big picture and get down into things like symptoms because there's so many conflicting theories. There's a psychologist (from Harvard so she has to be credible) who says something along the lines that if you go into a psychologists office and ask for a diagnosis, you'll almost always get one. It's similar with a lot of the medical world really, most amateurs search up symptoms on a list and then diagnose you with what fits that list. There's not really a reliable "not sick, perfectly normal person" standard to compare to.

A lot of medical science takes people as averages. Most people are sad at funerals. Most people don't act sadistic and don't troll. Those who do aren't necessarily schizophrenic. I'm a girl who gets turned on by brutal monster rape and naked cartoons. That probably puts me in the 'sick fuck' category, the type who will never get married and lives with cats for the rest of her life.

I don't go out. I don't make eye contact. I never make small talk. I just answer questions. I put everything into a schedule. My schedule breaks things down into 45 minute chunk tasks, and I bought an egg timer from IKEA to actually measure that. Everything in my house is labeled. I write expiry dates on everything I put in the fridge and force everyone else to. There's even a "3 days" and "1 week" label inside the fridge telling people which leftovers to eat first. My blood pressure hits 160 when I'm surprised (I actually keep a blood monitor to count this). As of writing this, it's 2.30 AM and I've spent the last 17 hours programming a calculator for some sex based roleplaying system that I'm probably going to get bored with when I wake up tomorrow morning.

And yet, I have friends. I make twice as much money as most people my age. I've graduated from a good school with a medal and got two businesses. My father was horribly dyslexic and he has more degrees than most people ever will. And that was from back in the days when you had to learn everything from books and lectures.

I am terrified of approaching people. But in the same manner that I'm terrified to ask a friend for money or ask a teacher a question I don't understand, I'm just as terrified to approach strangers and try to sell them something. Fearing everything has made me fear nothing. I've managed sales very well because talking with strangers feels like any other day in school. I've managed to approach unknown suppliers and get a lot of discounts from them because to me, negotiating with strangers is like talking with a teacher or parent and asking them for a gift. And because of my social handicap, they're actually very sympathetic to me.

I'm not trying to gloat or anything here, but I'm just saying that it holds you back as much as you believe it would. Everyone has a terminal illness - none of us are going to live to be 200. Everyone has some crippling weakness. Nobody is in the median of whatever the average medical study tries to paint us as... our extremes make us unique. Most people deny that they're going to die and they deny that they're just born worse than someone else in some way. Accepting your limits is a part of growing up.

There seems to be a lot of autists here and I dunno... maybe autistic people just like reading and writing more? We're all human. But I like being a 'mentally ill', abnormal person.

[Bloodied Porcelain]

My son is on a waiting list with a child psychologist to be tested for an ASD as well as a few other things (his behavior hints at several things, so we're taking him in to be tested to see exactly what's going on with him), and I've never thought for a moment Asbergers or any other ASD is something to be looked at negatively. Doesn't make you "wrong" or "broken" or even "ill" in my opinion, though I've heard a lot of people say that's what it is. I think it just makes you different, and not at all in a bad way. My son is a brilliant kid, and loving almost to a fault.

I don't have an ASD myself, but I am bipolar and have ADD and OCD, so I know how terrible people can be when they find out about your diagnosis. The best I can really say is that they suck and aren't worth paying attention to, and that there's a huge network of people here who have been diagnosed with a wide variety of disorders, and we're all very open and accepting people, most of whom are more than willing to be a listening ear.

[Oniya]

I write expiry dates on everything I put in the fridge and force everyone else to. There's even a "3 days" and "1 week" label inside the fridge telling people which leftovers to eat first.

... That's actually brilliant.  I've had 'George Carlin' moments with my family, as I appear to be the only one who cares about the leftovers once they go in the fridge.

[Dashenka]

...I'm just as terrified to approach strangers and try to sell them something. Fearing everything has made me fear nothing. I've managed sales very well because talking with strangers feels like any other day in school. I've managed to approach unknown suppliers and get a lot of discounts from them because to me, negotiating with strangers is like talking with a teacher or parent and asking them for a gift. And because of my social handicap, they're actually very sympathetic to me.

This is actually what got it rolling for me. I run a business and the whole idea of a business is to sell stuff to people. Luckily back in Moscow I had my girlfriend to do all the chit chat and I could just ask the most basic questions. When I moved to London and she didn't, I setup the business and found it a drag to go to work, because I wasn't comfortable asking people where and how they wanted to go on holiday.

Knowing now what I have made sense and gave me a certain freedom to approach people and ask them things. What also helped me, no matter how stupid it might sound, is the dog. Going to the park, walking the dog and meeting other dog owners. I can't chit chat but I can rant on for hours about my dog and the people in the park with the dogs also like to talk about the dogs, which in turn made me feel more comfortable and now I really talk to them about everything. I told them about my Aspergers and they all go.. oh well.. you're still a smart nice young woman.

There seems to be a lot of autists here and I dunno... maybe autistic people just like reading and writing more? We're all human. But I like being a 'mentally ill', abnormal person.

One of Asperger's (maybe autism in general) characteristics is a very lively imagination and very creative persons, which this website is all about.

[ladia2287]

Dashenka, you are not alone in this. There is a stereotype associated with autistic disorders and the various conditions and behaviours that are related to it, including Asperger Syndrome. But just because these stereotypes are the most commonly known forms does not mean they are the only one.

You say even your family has a hard time believing the diagnosis. This surprises me, because they would have seen your journey to diagnosis. But a friend of mine recently had a similar dilemma. I advised her to tell those who doubted the diagnosis to go see the professional who diagnosed them (they were diagnosed with Borderline Personality disorder, but the point I'm trying to make here is the same). If they still have doubts, go get a second opinion and invite them to come along and witness the process for themselves.

Those who belittle your condition, or try to talk down its impact on your life, are not worth having in your life. You should be surrounding yourself by people who love and support you no matter what, and having people around who seek to plant doubt in the validity of your diagnosis or your symptoms do not fall into that category.

The reality is that these people are not mental health professionals, so they are in absolutely no position to doubt the conclusions that your psychologist/psychiatrist has come to. I hope you can grow the confidence to believe that :)

[Dashenka]

I do. The people that don't take me seriously and say I don't call them as much as they would like because I'm lazy or don't care, don't deserve me. My closest family supports me and that's all that matters to me.

A lot of the comments I get is things like... 'but I have that well'. They fail to see that one feature doesn't make Asperger but it's a combination of things combined with how you react. I've accepted it and my condition and try to deal with it best as I can, which as I said, running a business isn't easy with a social handicap. Still talking to my councillor now and then because I have the feeling that since I got the diagnosis, the 'symptoms' got worse. So trying to deal with that now.

Otherwise I'm happy as can be so I guess to people I'm not one of those stereotype autistic people.

[ladia2287]

Judging from my understanding, I don't think your symptoms would be getting worse. I think, most likely, you've simply become more aware of them. Conditions such as autism or Aspergers, as far as I am aware, don't 'get worse' like other disorders. However, if you're only recently diagnosed, then you'll be much more aware of various behaviours which your psychologist/psychiatrist described as being symptomatic to Asperger Syndrome.

Previously, I'm guessing you wouldn't have batted an eyelid about being heavily schedule-dependant and described yourself merely as being fanatic about planning as many details of your day-to-day life in advance as possible.

Now that you understand that this is an aspect of a condition with which you have been diagnosed, it is quite natural psychologically to be much more aware of it, just as someone who has been diagnosed with chronic depression is not going through any wilder mood swings than they did before the diagnosis was made, but the diagnosis and explanation of the symptoms causes them to be hyper-aware of their mood swings going forward. It's a completely normal reaction for your brain to be taking; we are conditioned to be more aware of these things as they might enable a predator to overpower us more easily.

If you have any concerns, then go back to the professional who diagnosed you and get their medical opinion. It's possible that your diagnosis might need to be adjusted as many Autism Spectrum Disorders are very similar in terms of symptoms, but it sounds like your doctor was pretty thorough. Nonetheless, talk to them and see what they say. That is the best option :)

[Dashenka]

It is indeed mostly because I'm aware of it.

[Helmut Todstern]

My, there are a lot of us here. ^.^

I was diagnosed in March of last year, and my immediate reaction was "I need to grab this by the horns and steer it in the way I want it to go." So I spent the last year and then some trying to overcome it, and I consider to have a handle on some of its aspects. For me, the answer was easy, for others its complex.

I'll sum it up as: when I approach someone to talk, I roleplay as a version of myself that I would want to be, and it helps me avoid some of the anxiety. But it works for me, not sure how it would work for others.

But it's nice to know there are other Aspies on E :3

[Aislinn]

Hello!

I wanted to let you know that my 17-year-old son has PDD-NOS. So while I don't have it, I'm extremely well-versed in it. If you ever need to talk, my pm is always available.  ;D

~leaves hugs and holiday cookies~

[BraveEarth]

As someone with Asperger's who was diagnosed early I'm always happy to talk to the fellow people with Asperger's

[Wyatt]

Like Aislinn, I too have a son with that diagnosis.  He is ten now and always tested as borderline on the spectrum until about two years ago when he began having more significant social problems.  The issue really wasn't that he changed or that his autism got worse, it really isn't an illness, just a different way his and many people's brains are wired.  The big change was more in the world around him, his peers were gaining new social skills and facing socialization challenges that befuddled him, which lead to anger, anxiety and frustration.

A year later after a thorough examination over several days, finding well-qualified specialists and support groups to work with our entire family, and with a very caring and cooperative school district, he is back on track, learning who he is, working on a theory of mind manner of understanding how his way of thinking might differ from the societal norm, and that while there are challenges to it, there are also inherent advantages too.

One interesting thing I found is that he does not like the term Asperger's, but does not mind the word autism at all.  The other thing I found through all of this is that we are all on a spectrum of behavior and manners of thought, one which has helped me understand some of my own quirks, especially in the sensory processing areas.  The fact that some places on that spectrum are labeled "normal", is just another way of saying similar or average.  There is no such thing as truly normal, just some relative definitions of it that society at large are comfortable with.

Any time you want to talk, I am happy to listen and share, Dashenka. (:

[Paladin101]

I've never been diagnosed, mainly because I refuse to take pills or treatments for maladies of the mind, but my mother has long felt I have mild autism, and I fit the description. I am extremely attached to a schedule, forced deviation from it gets my blood boiling, as well as several other factors. Luckily when it comes to OCD I don't have that in extremes, though it does drive me crazy if things are not arranged in a pattern, or if the pattern is present but something is throwing it off.

When it comes to "How do you train yourself out of something your comfortable with", it comes down to mental discipline in my opinion. When I was in high school I was an extreme introvert, and crowds scared the hell out of me. I was aware of this, and made the choice to combat it. I got a job that put me front and center with people and forced me to interact with them, and I purposely chose school courses that would put me in front of crowds, drama, school play, debate, and mock trial. All of these made me extremely nervous, but by the time I was done, I found myself better able to cope with crowds, I had learned a method for dealing with them by forcing myself into the situation in a controlled manner. I still get nervous in crowds, and the bar scene as a result makes me extremely uncomfortable, but if I get into those situations, I now have a method to fall into that helps me control my anxiety, and interact in those situations.

I guess my point is don't get worked up over it. If you have autism/aspergers, then you've always had it. Don't let the knowledge of your diagnosis change your life, live how you want, and just accept that you are what you are. Don't let it influence your thoughts, or deter you from attempting anything. As someone else said, if you are seeing a counselor, make certain you talk to them and listen to their advice. I've been fortunate enough to have a mother wise enough and who knows me well enough to guide me and let me know when my mental issues are getting out of hand, and that I needed to reign it in. It helps to get an outside perspective.

[GypsyLily]

Syndromes...disorders...

When did it become necessary to label people?  Can't we all just embrace all the diversity of opinions and ideologies?  My nephew was diagnosed with Asperger's recently and my sister acted like it was nothing short of the end of times.  I only see a brilliant and misunderstood soul...one that will thrive in an environment of research and internal study.  Why did that become vilified?  Perhaps I'm crazy too, but I see only pure genius.

*tosses two coppers on the table and walks out with a smile*

[Oniya]

Darryl Hannah.  Dan Ackroyd.  Satoshi Tajiri.  All of these people have been diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum.  People like Tim Burton and Bill Gates have 'shown signs' of being on the spectrum, but have not been formally diagnosed.  True, not everyone will wind up developing an incredibly popular video game, or having a long-running cinematic career, but these people show that it isn't in any sense 'the end of times'. 

[Doedie]

It isn't on the autism spectrum, but I was diagnosed with dysgraphia when I was younger, it's a form of dyslexia. I can't write for shit, like, my handwriting looks more like a kid drawing random shapes than text. At first I got a bit of heat from my classmates for being 'different', which isn't that acceptable in Greece, but after entering university nobody really cares.

[Sabby]

My own autism has been making interactions difficult for me over the last year :/ Other peoples emotions make me uncomfortable, and I tend to either disregard or mock them as a way to distance myself from it. I almost always regret it later, so I'm aware of how uncalled for it is, I just become volatile if I feel as if emotions are being forced on me, and contemptuous if I feel someone is less intelligent then me. I've been called a Vulcan and robot for it.

Obviously, this isn't behavior I'm happy with, and I'm more then a little ashamed to admit it. Was just curious if anyone else on the spectrum has had similar feelings.

Edit: Example, the other day I saw an animation (a very beautiful one) and I showed my friend, but I admitted I didn't quite get it. He started explaining how it was about a mother sacrificing herself to save her son, and his description was making me feel things. Without meaning to, I told him to shut up, like I didn't want him to continue, since it was making me feel things against my will. I apologized afterwards (he's aware of my difficulties).

[Chrystal]

I have just now made an appointment with my doctor, with a view to getting my self-diagnosis confirmed.

[Sabby]

Good work :)

[Chrystal]

Question is, what happens if they say "don't be silly, you're perfectly normal", when I know I'm not? That actually worries me!

[Dashenka]

Syndromes...disorders...

When did it become necessary to label people?  Can't we all just embrace all the diversity of opinions and ideologies?  My nephew was diagnosed with Asperger's recently and my sister acted like it was nothing short of the end of times.  I only see a brilliant and misunderstood soul...one that will thrive in an environment of research and internal study.  Why did that become vilified?  Perhaps I'm crazy too, but I see only pure genius.

*tosses two coppers on the table and walks out with a smile*

It's not necessary to label people but in some countries, 'being labelled' grants you 'access' to certain services. For example if I can show that I cannot function in an office environment (which I can't) because I'm easily distracted and I can't do manual labour because I got a hip problem or something you are seriously limited with finding a job. I know the Netherlands there are government services that will provide for your life support but in order to get that money, you need to be diagnosed with whatever it is you have.

It's also the social acceptance. I run a good business and when people meet me they don't see the autist woman in me which leads them to say things like 'I can't see it on you' or 'I have that and that as well and I'm not an autistic person'.

A lot of people don't know the three subgroups of the autism spectrum and they don't know there are gradations in it as well. They only know the classic Forrest Gump cases where the person cannot look people in the eyes, is a complete social retard, etc etc. People like me (and I bet there are a lot of others here as well), where you can't see it, have the same problems and issues but because it cannot be seen, people react differently.

My own autism has been making interactions difficult for me over the last year :/

I have the feeling that since I got diagnosed, it's getting harder for me. Whatever the reason is for that.

Question is, what happens if they say "don't be silly, you're perfectly normal", when I know I'm not? That actually worries me!

Nothing. You feel how you feel, nothing will change it unless you want it to change. They asked me the question the other way around. What I would do if I would get diagnosed. I said: nothing. I'll still be me. Besides.. you aren't normal.. you're a cat woman :D

[Chrystal]

Well, I saw the Dr today.

First point, he agrees with me that I do have Asperger's and is referring me to a psychologist.

Second point. He is also wanting to treat me for depression. This is probably a good thing...

[Sabby]

Medication is extremely helpful when you get it right.

[King Serperior]

O_O;  There are a lot more here than I originally thought.  Wow.....I've only known one other person personally before coming to this place who had it and she had moved away a long time ago, leaving me feeling alone in the world.  That said, I am extremely pleased to know that there are others around here that know what it's like to feel alienated by most others.

As far as I know, I've been diagnosed with AS since before it became an official diagnosis.  My original doctor, may he rest in peace, looked at what I was going through differently than the others I had been to who often prescribed anti-depressants (turned me into a mindless, nearly drooling zombie) or similar.  It all made sense after he explained everything to me.

*Hugs for everyone*  This has made my day, finding more reasons to love this site and everyone in it  <3

[Dashenka]

Glad to help :)

[Chrystal]

I have, for now, declined the medication option, with good reason.

Rant - read at your own risk

Medication for depression treats the symptoms, not the cause. In the USA, I have noticed that there is a strong tendency to go straight for the "quick fix" option. Take a pill and feel better. There is a generation of young people over there who have been on anti-depressants pretty much there whole lives!

This may be an exaggeration, but not much of one.

Young people in the states are prescribed anti-depressants at the drop of a hat, with no attempt being made to try and find out why they are depressed. They then get hooked on the drugs and when rying to come off them, slip back into clinical depression.

A much better solution is talking therapy. Instead of taking a pill, you talk through your issues, find the causes and deal with them. In some cases, the two can and should be used in conjunction, but in my opinion, drugs are very often the first resort when they should be the last.

I can't help wondering how much of this is down to the lax use of the English language over there?

Do you know the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist? Hollywood doesn't, and has perpetuated the fallacy that they are the same.

A psychiatrist will prescribe drugs. A psychologist will talk to you about your problems. I do wonder whether the fact that people don't know there is a difference is responsible for the over-use of anti-depressants?

So, he gave me an information sheet for the local NHS clinical psychology department.

Need to contact them and make some sort of appointment, I guess...

[Sabby]

How is treating the symptoms not helpful? Pills aren't going to make this go away, they're supposed to help you deal with it while you pursue real solutions, which I assume your doing with therapy.

[Chrystal]

How is treating the symptoms not helpful? Pills aren't going to make this go away, they're supposed to help you deal with it while you pursue real solutions, which I assume your doing with therapy.

I didn't say treating the symptoms wasn't helpful, just that it should not be the only approach.

If I have flu, then treating the symptoms is the correct thing to do.

If I have gall stones, however, then treating the symptoms could, in fact, be the worst thing possible!

If someone is clinically depressed because they are in a situation that is harmful, making them feel good is not the way forward. The correct thing to do is find out why they are depressed, Identify the cause of the depression and remove it. Then they will feel better anyway, without the need for drugs.

In the event that the person is so depressed that they are potentially going to harm themselves or others, then yes, medication is necessary.

And, thinking about it, suppose someone is in a situation that is causing depression, so they are prescribed anti-depressants first, and advised to seek counselling. They start taking the anti-depressants, and feel better. They thus don't see the need for counselling. But as you so rightly said, the pills don't make the problem go away. Sooner or later it's going to rear it's ugly head again and then there is a crisis!

I'm honestly not an expert, and will be quite happy to be corrected on any and all points, but these are my opinions, formed from observation and common sense.

[Dashenka]

Deal with what? It's not the end of the world. So we got Aspergers. As you said pills will not solve it or make it go away. Then why take pills?


You just have to accept that you have limitations and deal with them. Pills don't make you more social, or more flexible or whatever it is that makes up your Asperger. Pills won't do anything to help with those symptoms.

It's not a broken arm or a bruised foot. Pills is exactly the reason why I dreaded to go see my councillor. I've heard stories as well.

"I've been feeling a little down recently since my dog died."
"Oh I know just the pill for you."

Nonsense, pills are the secret stash of doctors. They get paid for it and they don't help anything.

[Sabby]

Deal with what? It's not the end of the world. So we got Aspergers. As you said pills will not solve it or make it go away. Then why take pills?


You just have to accept that you have limitations and deal with them. Pills don't make you more social, or more flexible or whatever it is that makes up your Asperger. Pills won't do anything to help with those symptoms.

It's not a broken arm or a bruised foot. Pills is exactly the reason why I dreaded to go see my councillor. I've heard stories as well.

"I've been feeling a little down recently since my dog died."
"Oh I know just the pill for you."

Nonsense, pills are the secret stash of doctors. They get paid for it and they don't help anything.

Sorry, but this is a rather firebrand response in my opinion.

The fact a pill can't magically make you 'normal' isn't a reason not to take it. It's not supposed to do that. Aren't we allowed to be dissatisfied with our difficulties and seek to make things better for ourselves? Admitting we aren't happy with something that we will likely live with our whole lives is not the same thing as saying we're 'not right'. I don't mean to come off as confrontational, but the whole 'So what! We are who we are! We're not broken! Don't need pills!' and the general mistrust of doctors are two things I've had to deal with a lot through out my life, and it's never seemed justified or rational to me. It actually comes across as very paranoid and counter productive. Yes, some pills are prescribed too frequently, or for poor reasons. But is that reason to push away the entire industry while repeating NOPE I'm fine, just fine, yes sir, nothing wrong with me!

Look, it's like this.

I have difficulty conveying my thoughts and emotions. I'm not happy with that difficulty, and I never will be. So I try and limit it's impact on my life. Guess what? There are pills out there that do help me organize my thoughts and focus better. It won't make the problem go away, but I don't expect it to. It's there to help me while I try and make my life better.

What is wrong with that?

[Dashenka]

There is nothing wrong with that but in most cases, as Chrystal said, pills just mask what's underneath and unfortunately 90% of all doctors are too incompetent or lazy to find out what's underneath so they prescribe pills, hoping it makes people feel better.

I've lost somebody VERY dear to me like that because doctors diagnosed her meningitis as a common flu and decided that pills would help and even when she started to lose her sight said it was a simple migraine.

Of course if pills help for you, who am I to tell you not to take them, they just shouldn't be taken or considered as the ultimate cure or the only thing that can make you feel better.

[Sabby]

You just have to accept that you have limitations and deal with them. Pills don't make you more social, or more flexible or whatever it is that makes up your Asperger. Pills won't do anything to help with those symptoms.

Of course if pills help for you, who am I to tell you not to take them they just shouldn't be taken or considered as the ultimate cure or the only thing that can make you feel better.

I think you need to have a close read of your posts so far, because they're very inconsistent. I'm having trouble forming a proper response. You say the pills can't help, but then go on to say they can, just not in ridiculous ways?

[Dashenka]

Pills can't help cure anything. Pills can help mask the underlying problem, which for some/most people is enough :)

In your case, the pills make you feel better but they do not cure it. So in the long run they don't do anything other than make you feel better right?

[Sabby]

Am I to understand that you have completely abandoned the anti-medication stance you held in your first post?

[Dashenka]

I am anti medication, but that doesn't mean others should be as well. I think medications are a fraud and just a way to get into your wallet and the easiest way to keep the patients happy. If people feel that medication is helping them, who am I to say they can't take it. :)

Wish I had those powers.

[Sabby]

I am anti medication, but that doesn't mean others should be as well. I think medications are a fraud and just a way to get into your wallet and the easiest way to keep the patients happy. If people feel that medication is helping them, who am I to say they can't take it. :)

Wish I had those powers.

What powers? The powers to be helped by medication, or the powers to make people not take medication?

[Chrystal]

Uh,' scuse me?

Please can we all step back a little?

First off, Sabby, thank you for not jumping down my throat... I was expressing an opinion to which I am entitled.

The fact that anti-depressants can mask the cause of depression is, inm my inexpert opinion, dangerous, in much the same way that painkillers can mask cancer.

There are two issues here: one is doctors prescribing medication incorrectly, or misdiagnosing. That is always going to be a sensitive issue.

The other is whether or not taking drugs can help in treatment of a psychological illness.

The first issue I think we should step away from. I only raised it as my given reason for no wishing to take drugs for my condition.

The second, the answer is clearly, yes. Taking drugs, under the correct circumstances, can be very beneficial to a patient.

Please can we leave it there before this gets too heated? This thread is all about us aspies helping each other, not about getting heated over something that was an asside anyway.

[Sabby]

I'm... not getting heated :/ I'm asking that Dashenka clarify some things, because I'm having trouble understand her position. My question was an honest one.

[Dashenka]

What powers? The powers to be helped by medication, or the powers to make people not take medication?

The second :)

My position is that I think medication is mostly given to people to who don't need it, thus making it a fraude and I don't take medication for that reason and the reason I gave before. When medication helps you, by all means please take them.

[Chrystal]

I'm... not getting heated :/ I'm asking that Dashenka clarify some things, because I'm having trouble understand her position. My question was an honest one.

Okay... well, reading back over the posts, and given that everyone who posts to this thread has some communication difficulties, I would appreciate it, please if you could both say you weren't meaning any offencet o the other and that you have not taken any offence at the other's words?

This is a great thread, I recently directed another Aspie here, because he didn't know there were so many of us. I really would hate for staff to step in and lock it because a debate was even perceived to be getting out of hand, even if it was not.

Please?

[Dashenka]

I do admit I got a bit riled up with the medication things but I mean no harm. I'm the only harmless Russian in the world :D

What works for some, might not work for others so if you feel medication is working for you, I'm happy for you.

[Sabby]

Thank you for clarifying. I would ask in what way you wish you could stop people taking meds (there are two ways I could construed that one) but I don't want to take this discussion much further while in this thread. Apologies for the derail.

I would appreciate it, please if you could both say you weren't meaning any offencet o the other and that you have not taken any offence at the other's words?

Of course I never meant offense.

[Dashenka]

Cause if I had the powers to make people stop taking medication I would also have the powers to stop people from fighting and discriminate and the world would generally be a better place to live in.

[King Serperior]

As I am on my phone, I'll keep this short:

I don't take any meds for any symptoms.  They always caused me to seem braindead to everyone and I had to stop.  In general, I am better off without meds.

[Chrystal]

Thank you both for that.

Now kiss and make up?

Or at least shake hands....

Thanks...

[Sabby]

Cause if I had the powers to make people stop taking medication I would also have the powers to stop people from fighting and discriminate and the world would generally be a better place to live in.

That was one of the two conclusions I came to. Glad that was the one. I think you can guess what the other was xD

[Dashenka]

The other one would be communism :D

:-*

[Chrystal]

And, having just got things back where we are all friends again, I'm going to throw this in...

Placebo!

It is totally possible to take a tablet hat you think is a powerful drug, but in fact is just chalk, and have it do wonderful things, simply because you believe it will.

Equally the reverse is rue. If someone tells you the drugs you are taking are a placebo, they will do jack-shit, even ifthey have some active ingredients!

I know this because my dad had MS. He was prescribed some pills by his doctor, that actually seemed to help for a while, and then he saw a TV program on the Placebo effect and decided they were a placebo and they stopped working!

I have no idea if they were real or a placebo, but to this day I blame the BBC for dad's down-turn!

The other one would be communism :D

:-*

Da tovarich

[LisztesFerenc]

And, having just got things back where we are all friends again, I'm going to throw this in...

Placebo!

It is totally possible to take a tablet hat you think is a powerful drug, but in fact is just chalk, and have it do wonderful things, simply because you believe it will.

Equally the reverse is rue. If someone tells you the drugs you are taking are a placebo, they will do jack-shit, even ifthey have some active ingredients!

I know this because my dad had MS. He was prescribed some pills by his doctor, that actually seemed to help for a while, and then he saw a TV program on the Placebo effect and decided they were a placebo and they stopped working!

I have no idea if they were real or a placebo, but to this day I blame the BBC for dad's down-turn!

  I'm sorry to hear to hear that, I hope your dad gets better. However I think you are misunderstanding the placebo effect:

  1. Placebo can work even when the recipient knows they are receiving a placebo, a medically inert sugar pill. I believe the theory is that the ritual of being given something by a doctor can have beneficial affects on us: http://healthland.time.com/2010/12/27/placebos-work-even-if-you-know-theyre-fake-but-how/

  2. Thus the idea that being told that real medicine is a placebo negating its effect whilst possible is most likely going to be a rare outcome. I'm not sure as I cannot find a study on the idea. Nocebo, the idea of a medically inert substance making you worse, presumably through the negative attitude of the recipient or administrator, has been documented.

  On the subject, one interesting thing to note is that a study found that a certain brand of pain killer outperformed placebo in the double blind test, when subjects were given either the painkiller or a sugar pill. However, they had to have little to no effect when the recipients were not told that the medication was a painkiller.

[Dashenka]

I think what Chrystal meant to say is that the mind is stronger than any medicine. If you believe the medicin you are getting is helping you, it will help and if you don't believe it will happen, it won't. And I guess that is true, which is why I don't take medicin.

[LisztesFerenc]

  There is a lot of truth to that sentiment, but as is usually the case the truth is more complicated. The placebo effect is far more complicated than what it initially appears to be, which plenty of weird effects. The article I linked goes on to talk about heroine addicts, and how they will not get a placebo high, even if they believe they are buying the drug.

[Chrystal]

First of all, LisztesFerenc, you weren't to know, but I'm 50 this year and my dad died about 20 years ago... So, thanks for the thought, but it isn't going to happen. Well, not unless we get a zombie-apocalypse... and anyway he was cremated.

There is no need to apologise, by the way. As I said, you weren't to know.

Second, I find the placebo effect to be fascinating. It's almost a sort of hypnosis, in the way it works by suggesting to the mind that this sugar pill is going to remove your pain. There was an episode of M*A*S*H where they ran out of morphine, and so they gave the patients placebos. Obviously M*A*S*H is fiction, but it is based very soundly upon fact, and it wouldn't surprise me if something like that had actually happened, with the results recorded in the show.

Anyway, the human mind is a strange and wonderful place, and can be very scary at times too. Mine terrifies me at times... lol!

There is no real scientific evidence to support many of the things people say that the human mind can do, but if you know someone really well, you can tell exactly what they are thinking and feeling. I've never met any twins, but the ability to finish each others' sentences is supposed to be quite disconcerting...

So, yes, the power of suggestion. Some people it works on, some people it doesn't. I don't know if I've ever been hypnotised. It would be interesting to find out....

[LisztesFerenc]

First of all, LisztesFerenc, you weren't to know, but I'm 50

  Interesting. I'm young, therefor I assumed the person I was talking with is also young. Ego centric bias I believe.

Second, I find the placebo effect to be fascinating. It's almost a sort of hypnosis, in the way it works by suggesting to the mind that this sugar pill is going to remove your pain. There was an episode of M*A*S*H where they ran out of morphine, and so they gave the patients placebos. Obviously M*A*S*H is fiction, but it is based very soundly upon fact, and it wouldn't surprise me if something like that had actually happened, with the results recorded in the show.

  Its possible, especially in the time M*A*S*H was made, but placebo pain killers have been noted in studies to increase pain. Happened to 15% of those taking the sugar pill in one example. Furthermore, nowadays any licensed pain killer will need to have out performed a placebo in a double blind test before it reaches the shelf, but then again Prozac was recently proven to be no more effective than sugar pill barring extreme cases of depression, so its not a perfect system.

Anyway, the human mind is a strange and wonderful place, and can be very scary at times too. Mine terrifies me at times... lol!

  You're probably doing something wrong if your mind doesn't scare every now and then.

[Chrystal]

I was going to post this here but got distracted by the medication/anti-medication debate.

I mentioned that I had recently pointed someone at his thread, who didn't realise there were any other Aspies here on E. In the process I posted this little homily, which I thought was quite deep and potentially helpful:

Everyone thinks they are alone. It's crushing. And then we find others who have what we have, and suddenly the world seems that little bit brighter. We are not alone, there are people who have what we have. We are all in this together, we can help each other, support each other. Even as we write smutty stories to get away from our everyday lives, we can become a community within a community, a group of people who share a common interest of adult role-playing on-line and a common bond of Asperger's Syndrome.

This thread, started by Dashenka because she felt alone and upset at being diagnosed as an Aspie, is probably going to help a lot of people on E. I certainly hope it does.

If someone says to you "I have Asperger's Syndrome", point them here. Let's all celebrate our abnormality together! *giggles*

Just as an asside, does anyone else find that roleplaying on-line like this, and chatting to people we are never going to meet face to face, helps?

What I mean is, before I started on-line rp-ing, I would NEVER have been able to work retail. Walking up to someone and saying "Hello, how can i help?" is actually really scary. 90% of people are really nice, but there's that 10% who aren't. There's the dissatisfied customer who has come in to complain, there's the arrogant bleep who wants what he wants and gets shirty when told he can't have it because he'll burn his house down, there's the gypsies who "just want a bit of pipe", and while you're getting the bit of pipe, the rest of them are pinching stuff off the shelves...

Well, that job is over for me now, and I won't be going back there, but the principal applies. Dealing with people day to day is hard, because I have no idea how they are going to react and it scares the shit out of me. Dealing with situations in a safe, fictional setting that are far more exreme really helps, in so far as I can, for example,  practice having my character stand up for herself, and see what happens. If i works, I can think about how it worked in the RP when confronted with a real life situation, and maybe apply some of the same principals. If it doesn't I know not to try it...!

No, I'm not saying hat we should reat roleplaying as practice for real life, but what I am saying is that meeting people and making friends in this safe environment - and it is safe! - gives the confidence to attempt it in real life, dealing with fictional people who want to hurt us fictionally, and overcoming them can give confidence to deal with real people who want to get heir own way.

But most important, i think, is the fact that everyone on his site is beautiful in the eyes of their friends. No matter if you're a fat ugly 50 year old dyke in real life - Did I say you? I meant me! - on hear everyone sees me as young, attractive and sexy, and that is a real confidence booster!

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

You are beautiful, Chrystal. :-) I learn more about a person's beauty from their words, than their appearance!

[Chrystal]

You are beautiful, Chrystal. :-) I learn more about a person's beauty from their words, than their appearance!

Says the woman in the hideous halloween mask.... *snigger*

Thanks, darling. I love you too. *drags you off  to a quiet corner for some steamy girl-on-girl action*

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

Hey! I like my Dia de Los Muertos makeup, very much! I think it's very pretty!

But that doesn't stop me from finding the quiet corner, with you! ;)

[Aislinn]

Darryl Hannah.  Dan Ackroyd.  Satoshi Tajiri.  All of these people have been diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum.  People like Tim Burton and Bill Gates have 'shown signs' of being on the spectrum, but have not been formally diagnosed.  True, not everyone will wind up developing an incredibly popular video game, or having a long-running cinematic career, but these people show that it isn't in any sense 'the end of times'.

Jennifer Lawrence.

That girl is amazingly funny to watch in interviews because she just doesn't have that filter that checks words before they come out of the mouth. I think a lot of people relate to her because of it and why they just like her so much. She said in an interview once that she was diagnosed in the PDD spectrum but that acting became an outlet for her and as much of a therapeutic device as medication.

[Dashenka]

That makes sense actually. From what I know is that one of the 'elements' of all three forms of autism is an above average imagination and creativity. Acting is a form of creativity and imagination, as is singing and so is writing.

That's why I guess there is so many of 'us' here on Elliquiy. I for one need something to express myself as I have troubles doing it by talking to people, so I write and dream up entire universes and all that. My school books were full of drawings and stuff, simply because I had to express myself.

A lot of people focus on the negative things about autism. I know I did when I got first diagnosed and perhaps I still do a bit too much, but there are also a lot of good things coming from autism, like the creativity. What we lack on one aspect, we make up for others, I believe that is how nature works.

I really struggle with first contacts and expression my emotions but I'm overly systematic, my desk is so neat it's almost obsessive and I'm very creative. My councillor told me to write down the good things about me vs the bad things about me and surprisingly, the good thing list was WAY bigger than the negative. It's just because I focussed so much on the negatives, it became overwhelming.

I wanted to post something that was more related to Aislinn's post but this so isn't :P Another thing about me and my Asperger. I can't focus at all. I'm like writing, writing.. hey that's a pretty butterfly... what was I doing again?  :-[

[Chrystal]

A really good book - fiction, admittedly - that first made me realise that I may be somewhere on the Autism spectrum, is called "The Speed Of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon. It handles Autism sympathetically, and points out many of the positives as well as the negatives: The ability to percieve patterns that others cannot is a major one.

I recommend his book to anyone who is not autistic or AS, and wants to know something of how it feels to be.

We can't relate to you, but equally, you have difficulty knowing how to relate to us. We have the excuse of a "mental disorder", but for normal folk it's usually just lack of knowledge.

The book is a good read, as I said, and is an eye opener. When I read it, and saw many of the symptoms displayed by the central character in myself, that was what made me realise there was something actually worth investigating, rather than just me being peculiar. I looked into Autism because of that book, and found my identity.

I suppose I should write to Ms Moon and thank her? *chuckles*

[Oniya]

The few times I've written to authors, they've generally been quite polite and appreciative.  (I still have the email that Jane Yolen sent me back :-) )

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

I struggle much with my writing, it's only this year I learn I'm dyslexic. Many of the wonderful people I meet here, they struggle with depression, or other things. I liking thinking, of E, as the place for forgetting troubles and not worrying of such things.

You're not alone, Dashenka, with your worries. And don't worry about not being focussed, I'm not either, and many others aren't too! ::) And you're always very positive and kind, with me. I know I think you're wonderful. :-)

Hugs for you, amazing girl!

[Sabby]

How do other Autists feel about Big Bang Theory? I hope I'm not the only one who wants to gravely injure Sheldon.

[Dashenka]

How do other Autists feel about Big Bang Theory? I hope I'm not the only one who wants to gravely injure Sheldon.

Nope you are not. Although I do like the show, Sheldon is what everybody thinks about when they speak of autism. All the cliches. Not very realistic and over exaggerated. Very annoying. But then again, the show is full of cliches so I can accept it and deal with it.

[Yukina]

How do other Autists feel about Big Bang Theory? I hope I'm not the only one who wants to gravely injure Sheldon.

Hollywood and television have always been poor at properly portraying autism, so he hasn't really bothered me. It just seems like a common writing fault.

[Chrystal]

If you want a more sympathetic approach on TV, try the cop show "Numb3rs". It has Judd Hirsch from the 80s sit-com "Taxi" as one of the supporting roles, but it features two characters who are brothers (Hirsch's sons). One is an FBI agent. The other is a mathematical genius who displays many of the symptoms of Asperger's. I don't think the character of Charlie Eppes is ever formally identified as having asperger's or any other form of Autism, but as I said, the character clearly exhibits symptoms in his dealings with people, and the way he focuses in on something to the exclusion of everything else.

Numb3rs ran from 2005 to 2010. I don't know why they canned it. It's one of the few US cop shows (along with NCIS and In Plane Sight) that I actually enjoy. My wife loves cop shows. I don't!

[Dashenka]

There is another police show where they have what I suppose is a character with autism. It's called Criminal Minds. Very good show and actually a quite realistic character. Not like Sheldon. But I usually don't get too bothered about stereotypes. If I did, most US vs Russian movies would be a no no for me :)

[Chrystal]

I've seen criminal minds.

It also has a character that is openly lesbian and is played by a lesbian actress... Kirsten Vangsness.

[Sabby]

One thing that bothers me to no end is the way people answer each others questions. It seems to be entirely normal to give overly complex and waffling answers that don't really relate to the question asked of them. If I try and have a conversation with someone, I like to pin them down on this and make sure they give simple and direct answers, and it always ends up confusing and frustrating people, like I'm being unreasonable.

[Dashenka]

Haha I can relate to that. I run my own business though so I have learned to deal with it but it still annoys me sometimes that people just cannot give me a direct answer.

[Sabby]

It's almost as if they have a few responses lined up already and unconsciously try to stick to that.

[Dashenka]

A lot of people try to give a politically correct answer.

Do you like my new shoes?

Well they look nice on you....


Annoys me to no end because it wasn't what I asked. But I've learned to deal with it and in some cases even read the true meaning behind it :)

[Yukina]

One thing that bothers me to no end is the way people answer each others questions. It seems to be entirely normal to give overly complex and waffling answers that don't really relate to the question asked of them. If I try and have a conversation with someone, I like to pin them down on this and make sure they give simple and direct answers, and it always ends up confusing and frustrating people, like I'm being unreasonable.

The only time this issue probably bugs me is when I'm talking to my father. I don't exactly do anything about it though, because talking with him never really gets the idea through his thick skull.

[Chrystal]

It's interesting that other people find that.

I've noticed it myself, but never thought that it was an Aspie thing, I just though the people I was dealing with were particularly annoying!

However, there are two sides to this. One of our quirks is that we can get so fixated on explaining something that we totally fail to realise the other person has fallen asleep!

However, yes, I agree that obtuse answers annoy me. I want a simple straight forward answer to a simple question. "Can I make that fit in there?" (for example)

Instead of "Yes" or "No", I get told that I should use something else, make this bigger, twist that around.... I just wanted a yes or no answer! I usually end up confused, and when they finished, I ask my question again. This gets the other person annoyed, because they thought they'd answered it...

On the flip side to that, I might have a problem that, in order to explain why I need to ask it, I need to give some back-ground information. So I start by explaining the back-ground and the person I'm trying to ask assumes that I am asking something about this and goes off on a tangent, explaining stuff I already know, or sometimes going somewhere that isn't actually relevant because it's what they thought i was asking.

It can be very frustrating!

[Sabby]

Uhg, I just watched Star Trek Into Darkness. Something has been bugging me lately about games and movies.

Does anyone find they usually end up liking or agreeing with the villain? Like, they end up having the right idea, and their only crime seems to be crossing some boundaries in order to make whatever it is they deemed necessary happen.

I find it very hard to side with the supposed 'heroes', because they just deflect everything the villain says, as if they had their hands over their ears going 'nope, your a bad guy, gotta stop you, nopenopenope'. Am I supposed to agree with blind and passionate declarations like this?

Seems I can't play or watch anything without having these mass produced, shallow children roaring over whatever grievance they've used to delude themselves into thinking they are right.

[Yukina]

Uhg, I just watched Star Trek Into Darkness. Something has been bugging me lately about games and movies.

Does anyone find they usually end up liking or agreeing with the villain? Like, they end up having the right idea, and their only crime seems to be crossing some boundaries in order to make whatever it is they deemed necessary happen.

I find it very hard to side with the supposed 'heroes', because they just deflect everything the villain says, as if they had their hands over their ears going 'nope, your a bad guy, gotta stop you, nopenopenope'. Am I supposed to agree with blind and passionate declarations like this?

Seems I can't play or watch anything without having these mass produced, shallow children roaring over whatever grievance they've used to delude themselves into thinking they are right.

Depending on the villian, I'm all for the "rooting for the empire" trope. An example for me is the Disney version of the "Swiss Family Robinson" movie, where by the end, the family seems more violent and cruel than the pirates. The "protagonists" employ rifles, avalanches of large log piles, varied pitfalls, coconut bombs, and a tiger pit all against a medium-sized pirates with cutlasses (and possibly a flintlock pistol here and there). The parents even praise their son as he properly catches some of the pirates in an explosion from the aforementioned coconut bombs. All the pirates did in the movie was plunder a single ship and commit one kidnapping (where they didn't even lay a scratch on the hostages I might add).

[Sabby]

I'm confused, how is that relevant? I'm talking about glorifying these loud and childish heroes, and cheering along their fight against characters whose motivations are ignored in favor of demonizing the lengths they go to. Even when the game/movie does give time to build the villain up and show they aren't Hitler, the heroes will treat them like Hitler regardless.

I'm not saying that it's okay to cross all the boundaries for the greater good, I'm saying it's annoying to see this ridiculously heavy handed demonizing. It's almost as if they can't have the heroes stop and consider the villains position, because the whole foundation of their RIGHTEOUS FURY would crumble.

[Yukina]

I'm confused, how is that relevant? I'm talking about glorifying these loud and childish heroes, and cheering along their fight against characters whose motivations are ignored in favor of demonizing the lengths they go to. Even when the game/movie does give time to build the villain up and show they aren't Hitler, the heroes will treat them like Hitler regardless.

I'm not saying that it's okay to cross all the boundaries for the greater good, I'm saying it's annoying to see this ridiculously heavy handed demonizing. It's almost as if they can't have the heroes stop and consider the villains position, because the whole foundation of their RIGHTEOUS FURY would crumble.

I was thinking of a situation where the "heroes" completely go overboard with what they do just because they feel they are right. I may have misinterpreted your point, so I apologize for that. I was thinking the point was of heroes being so self-righteous that they ignore the plain facts of what exactly they are doing.

[Sabby]

No need for apologies.

[Chrystal]

Hmm.

I did have quite a long reply typed up, but decided it wasn't relevant!

But it seems to me that Yugoshogun's example is a good one.

Heh. Okay, this seems more relevant.... I watched "Space Jam" (Michael Jordan & Bugs Bunny) the other day. In that movie, the heroes (Loony Toons) actually stay pretty true to their ideals, and at the end, the bad guys change sides, because they weren't really bad, just intimidated by the real bad guy.

Who of course wasn't really that bad, he was just greedy, and unscrupulous, and had a business that was failing.... And came up with a scheme to save it that wasn't workable! I've worked for someone like that...

[Sabby]

Mass Effect is a good example of what irritates me. One character is doing what they can to save the galaxy, and finding it harder and harder not to cross some lines in order to do what they think is right, and the other is a simple minded, raging idiot.

Try and guess which one your supposed to root for? But remember, HE'S A FUGITIVE, HE KILLED PEOPLE, so don't waste time thinking, you have to stop the bad guy!

[Dashenka]

I'm not sure if this is a thing for autism or just a general thought :)

I'm convinced that even the bad guys to things because they believe it's the right thing to do. So for their beliefs, it's not bad or evil.

[Chrystal]

I've never played Mass Effect. I don't have the money to spend on computer games. I tend to play free ones!

But I do take the point.

I think Batman is probably the most classic example of the lot. Ignore the 1970s camp TV series and movie. In ther original comic books,and the later movies, Batman is basically a psychopathic vigilante nut-case!

He deserves to be locked up.

Catwoman, on the other hand, is frequently portrayed extremely sympathetically. Selena Kyle is totally head over heels with Bruce Wayne... And yet Catwoman is a villain?

I'm not sure if this is a thing for autism or just a general thought :)

I'm convinced that even the bad guys to things because they believe it's the right thing to do. So for their beliefs, it's not bad or evil.

Heh. I think it is something to do with autists and aspies being able to see relationships and patterns that other people can't...

[Sabby]

Apologies if my ranting has taken up too much of the thread :( I've just been very curious since I found this place if other Aspies share my frustrations. It's not even that they exist that pisses me off, it's how universal and normal they are. I just feel like I'm the only one who see's a problem sometimes, and it can be a very isolating feeling...

[Chrystal]

Why do you think that many of us enjoy role-playing as the bad guy here on E?

*giggles*

I know I certainly do...

[Dashenka]

Apologies if my ranting has taken up too much of the thread :( I've just been very curious since I found this place if other Aspies share my frustrations. It's not even that they exist that pisses me off, it's how universal and normal they are. I just feel like I'm the only one who see's a problem sometimes, and it can be a very isolating feeling...

I had a similar thing with Lost. That TV show. First episode, about three minutes into the show, you see the engine of the plane still running at full tilt. The wing's come off so there's little to no fuel available so what's the damn thing running on? Got so annoyed by it that I turned it off and never watched Lost because of it. If they can't get the basic shit together it's not really worth my time.

So I guess it is something to do with autism :)

[Chrystal]

It's more to do with the fact that details like that irritate us more than "normal" folk because they stand out as glaringly obvious to us, and others don't spot them.

I have a sincere loathing of Arthurian TV dramas and films, because the characers are inevitably dressed in medieval costumes. The Arthurian legend took place during the Dark Ages, not the Middle Ages. The Romans had fucked off back to Rome after Honorius told the Britains to "look to your own defences", as us Saxons were kicking their backsides.

Arthur allegedly united the warring tribes of Britain against us, and held us at bay for a few years, before being betrayed by his bastard son.Point being, the armies would have used Roman weapons, Roman armour, and Roman tactics, not medieval ones.

If you want a great series of fiction books on the subject you can't go too far wrong with Bernard Cornwell's "Warlord Chronicles" trilogy.

anyway, hat's where I see a parallel in my own experience.

[Oniya]

A well-written villain can have you rooting for him/her despite being 'bad'.  Two classic examples would be Alex from 'A Clockwork Orange' - in the final scene of the movie, despite what Alex has done himself, there's a certain sense of celebration (that's actually a little disturbing to most people); and the other being Moorcock's 'Elric' - who runs around killing people and sacrificing their souls, but is written in such a way as to be both terrifying and pitiable at the same time.  In the original Trek II (with Montalban) I felt sorry for Khan - he'd been dumped on this planet (with all good intentions!), and then a global disaster took away everything.  Why wouldn't he feel at least some degree of resentment for the person/people who put him there?

[Sabby]

If anyone else is like me and tired of loud simpleton main characters (like the new Star Trek movies), watch Millenium. I've been marathoning it for a few days now. Absolutely fantastic crime drama with very restrained and subtle paranormal undertones.

The reason I recommend it is s for Frank Black, the main character, a father and FBI consultant with psychic visions. He's everything I've wanted from lead roles but haven't gotten. He's intelligent and logical without being an emotionally stunted jerk, just flawed enough to be believable.

[Dashenka]

It's World Autism Awareness Day my fellow autism sufferers... (I have no idea what somebody with autism is called in English :P)

So... Happy autism day... I guess.

Here's to hoping they'll never change the date....

[Chrystal]

It's World Autism Awareness Day my fellow autism sufferers... (I have no idea what somebody with autism is called in English :P)

So... Happy autism day... I guess.

Here's to hoping they'll never change the date....

Heh, and I wonder how many of us Aspies missed it because we weren't aware of it!

An autism sufferer is usually referred to as an autistic, or sometimes an autist.

[Dashenka]

I didn't know either. Accidentally stumbled upon an article in a newspaper about a software company hiring a lot of autistic people and that they released it on WAD. Then I went on google and found it was 2 april. :)

[Dashenka]

So I've been made this strange but interesting offer by my councillor. She has told me about a programme that allows people with an autism disorder to help other people with the same diagnosis. The idea is that the 'expert' sort of helps the other by sharing events and experiences.

If I accept, I get a little bit of training but the heaviest part is the self reflection. It can be rather confronting obviously.

I might not explain it too well but in short, because I (we) know better than any psychiatrist what we're feeling, we can advice and share experiences and help people 'like us' better. It's not a replacement of the councillor or psychiatrist but an addition.

She thinks I could do it and that I wouldn't be too bothered about the self reflection and the confronting bit.

So... would it help you or would it have helped in the past if you had somebody who has the same thing as you do? Could be autism or related or something completely different. Just curious to know.

[Chrystal]

*looks around at the thread, points to some of the earlier comments on it*

I think your answer is right here, Dasha, sweetie.

I for one would certainly have benefited if I had been told that such a thing as "High Functioning Autism" and Asperger's Syndrome existed, years ago, rather than discovering about them for myself. Knowing I was not some freak, the prodfuct of bullying and inatentive parents, but that I was suffering from an actual "illness" and was not the only person, heck that would have made a huge difference in my early years!

My answer is, go for it.

[Kingfisher]

So I've been made this strange but interesting offer by my councillor. She has told me about a programme that allows people with an autism disorder to help other people with the same diagnosis. The idea is that the 'expert' sort of helps the other by sharing events and experiences.

If I accept, I get a little bit of training but the heaviest part is the self reflection. It can be rather confronting obviously.

I might not explain it too well but in short, because I (we) know better than any psychiatrist what we're feeling, we can advice and share experiences and help people 'like us' better. It's not a replacement of the councillor or psychiatrist but an addition.

She thinks I could do it and that I wouldn't be too bothered about the self reflection and the confronting bit.

So... would it help you or would it have helped in the past if you had somebody who has the same thing as you do? Could be autism or related or something completely different. Just curious to know.

Not sure about PDD, but I work occasionally with stroke survival support groups and it sounds like a similar deal.

Just to set your expectations, you don't have to be 100% comfortable with your diagnosis to help others.  Talking to them from the position of a peer is just as, if not more, helpful as from the position of a mentor.  They have plenty of doctors and shrinks to tell them what they should do or feel, what they're looking for is someone who's going through the same thing, possibly with a few extra months/years of experience added.  Stories of your shortcomings will help just as much as your stories of success.

That said, while you don't have to already have confronted yourself and your diagnosis, it is imperative that you are willing.  Because, just like you predicted, it will come up in the sessions.  So keep that in mind.

Lastly, I wouldn't worry too much about the training just yet.  If you are interested, which from the sounds of it, you are - ask to see the program in session and listen to what's being talked about.  That will help a lot more than a bunch of strangers on a forum.

[Dashenka]

Thank you.

I'm not entirely sure what kind of people I will 'get' so to speak but I'm guessing since I've been diagnosed with Asperger's, it's those people I can help. I cannot help others.

As for the programme, what I've heard is that it's pretty new and not many people doing it. Also, knowing myself and my shortcomings, I wouldn't be comfortable with a third or fourth person sitting with me just 'seeing what it's about.'

I will ask around because I really am interested in doing this.

Secondly, Elliquiy has become a little more to me than 'a bunch of strangers on a forum' :) Probably my mistake and shortcoming.

[Rhapsody]

I have two kids with autism. My pediatrician has told me that, based on descriptions of my childhood and my current methods of coping with stuff, I probably land somewhere on the spectrum as well. I haven't decided yet if I want to get an official diagnosis or not, but chances are I will, just for my own benefit.

Secondly, Elliquiy has become a little more to me than 'a bunch of strangers on a forum' :) Probably my mistake and shortcoming.

Hardly a mistake or a shortcoming. Also, hardly yours alone if it is. :)

[Oniya]

While we are a bit more than 'strangers', the people actually involved in this program are going to know a lot more about it than we will.  If you can't sit in on a session, for whatever reason (and comfort-level in being an 'observer' as opposed to a 'participant' is a reason), then arrange to talk to the people involved outside of an actual session - like in the waiting room or something.

[Dashenka]

I have two kids with autism. My pediatrician has told me that, based on descriptions of my childhood and my current methods of coping with stuff, I probably land somewhere on the spectrum as well. I haven't decided yet if I want to get an official diagnosis or not, but chances are I will, just for my own benefit.

Hardly a mistake or a shortcoming. Also, hardly yours alone if it is. :)

I don't want to sound like a psychiatrist but from what I've learned is that autism is inherited. If your kids 'have it', either you or their father is likely to have it as well.
Welcome to the club :P

While we are a bit more than 'strangers', the people actually involved in this program are going to know a lot more about it than we will.  If you can't sit in on a session, for whatever reason (and comfort-level in being an 'observer' as opposed to a 'participant' is a reason), then arrange to talk to the people involved outside of an actual session - like in the waiting room or something.

I know. The information I've been given is really not that much, so I need to learn a few more things about it before I actually say yes. It also needs to fit in with my current job. So I do think I want it but the practical matters need to be sorted out as well :)

[marauder13]

I have just literally stumbled onto this thread, and while I have not read it all, I have gone through the first page, and seen a few other posts along the way.

I have two young sons, both ASD. My elder son was diagnosed with Aspergers before it was included as part of the spectrum. My younger son is mildly autistic. We have been most fortunate in that the mainstream school they attend have been most supportive of the boys and their conditions, and have come up with some truly brilliant ways of incorporating their respective coping mechanisms in a safe and ultimately constructive way. They are both incredibly bright, intelligent lads with ways and means of seeing ways around blocks in problems that makes me jealous at times.

I have seen how much of a challenge some things are for them, particular changed expectations, or in routines. Of course, there are many other things that are challenges for them, but I wont bore people with the nitty gritty details. But Dashenka, what you have spoken off is common with my boys, and a couple of other Autistic people I know.

Please, don't be alarmed about how things seem to be getting worse. Now you're aware of your condition, you are more aware of how it is manifesting, as well as being more concerned about how the symptoms are. But you know what it is, and that gives you the means to discover more about YOUR condition, and find ways to improve your quality of life. Tap into the strengths you have, and if possible, find ways of turning what you think of as negatives, or unwanted behaviours, into strengths.

Lastly, everyone is different. Everyone has a different view of the world, and some people interact with in a different way. You, like my sons, have an advantage that most others don't; you have a better idea of how your mind works, which gives you a leg up on those who don't. Use that wisdom wisely.

[Rhapsody]

I don't want to sound like a psychiatrist but from what I've learned is that autism is inherited. If your kids 'have it', either you or their father is likely to have it as well.
Welcome to the club :P

Oh, I live in Canada, where things are much, much easier once you have a diagnosis. It's a recognized genetic condition up here, even if it isn't very understood. They only two years ago learned that the brain actually wires itself differently from a neurotypical person.

[Dashenka]

Well the diagnosis helped me a little. Not financially or anything but simply in answering a lot of questions for me. A definative answer on what's wrong with me. That's how it helped me to hear what it was. Could finally close a chapter in my life.

[Rhapsody]

Well the diagnosis helped me a little. Not financially or anything but simply in answering a lot of questions for me. A definative answer on what's wrong with me. That's how it helped me to hear what it was. Could finally close a chapter in my life.

Completely understandable. I'll probably get assessed, if nothing else. I'm not sure if I could apply for any of the benefits available; my boys get them, but I have no idea if I would even qualify. I've learned to cope fairly well, am still learning in some regards, but a professional saying one way or the other might... I'm not sure. People I've spoken to haven't been very supportive of going to get tested. "What would it accomplish?" I don't know that I need it to accomplish anything.

[Ephiral]

So. I am right now waiting for the results of a test, but have been informally told that it will be shocking if I don't test positive. I'm not unfamiliar - my half-brother and several close friends have Asperger's - but... it's still kinda shocking and relieving at the same time. I finally have an idea about why I can't break certain patterns, and perhaps a way to move forward from here.

I know this was a while ago, but Dashenka... as someone who took forever to get anything figured out, and is extremely uncomfortable with mental health professionals as a rule, I must say that program sounds awesome. Hopefully it worked out well.

[Dashenka]

I felt that my councillor was more shocked about it then I was. She kept asking me how I felt about it and what it would change for me. Well nothing really :) Except I now knew what was blocking me so it's very familiar what you say.

May I ask why you decided to get tested? Just out of curiousity.

That programme has been put on hold at the moment due to some rules and regulations from both the government and the organization leading it preventing it from happening in it's current form. But I've signed up and hopefully soon something will start :)

[Ephiral]

I felt that my councillor was more shocked about it then I was. She kept asking me how I felt about it and what it would change for me. Well nothing really :) Except I now knew what was blocking me so it's very familiar what you say.

Yeah... "shocking" may have been the wrong word choice; "bracing" seems like it fits better. It feels like there have been walls in my way in some parts of my life... and now someone's showing me that there might be a door there.

May I ask why you decided to get tested? Just out of curiousity.

General policy: It's okay to ask me about anything, as long as you're prepared for an infodump.

Long story.

Honestly, it's been a slow build to this point. Several of my closest friends are on the spectrum, and I've always found it way easier to communicate with them than others. Upon doing my own research, I placed about a 30% probability that I would diagnose positive - and that low largely because I don't trust layman's diagnoses, especially self-diagnoses. So I was always somewhat curious, but not really in a position to commit the money and mental energy to finding out. (It is hard to overestimate just how averse I am to mental health facilities.)

Cue my mother, who was working with the local native community on a suicide-prevention initiative. One of the people she met there has extensive experience working with aspies. I came up in conversation, and he asked to be put in contact.

I'm honestly not sure what to call him, really - he works at a community resource center for people with mental health issues, and I know he's not exactly a doctor or therapist, but he obviously has some training in the field. What I do know is that I can actually feel relaxed and comfortable talking to him, and he's very helpful and encouaging. The test he administered isn't exactly a formal diagnosis, but it certainly covers extremely similar ground, and I'd be blown away if a doctor's evaluation differed substantially.

The one major problem I have: I'm still very uneasy identifying as on-spectrum without a diagnosis, given that "undiagnosed Asperger's" seems to be an Internet codeword for "I want an excuse to be an asshole"... but I'm nowhere near a place where I could actually go and get a formal diagnosis, and am unsure I'll ever be. Hopefully that doesn't disqualify me for this thread?

That programme has been put on hold at the moment due to some rules and regulations from both the government and the organization leading it preventing it from happening in it's current form. But I've signed up and hopefully soon something will start :)

That's a shame. Please keep us posted if and when that changes - I've long been of the opinion that a group of fellow travellers, tightly and positively focused, can be an enormous support in dealing with things like this - things that are difficult if not impossible to explain from the inside, and affect pretty much every aspect of your life in some form. Just having other people who can say "I know how you feel. You are not alone." is an incredibly powerful feeling.

[Dashenka]

I think whether or not you get the diagnosis is irrelevant to the problems. Even if you are not officially diagnosed, if you can relate to it and if you have 'undiagnosed Asperger's', if it makes you feel comfortable, it can't be wrong. If people think of you as an asshole or, the reason why I started the topic, in my case, affectation, that's their loss, not ours.

People say to me, even when I'm officially diagnosed, "oh but I have that as well and I don't have Asperger's". They don't say it in so many words but what little bodylanguage I understand, even to me it's clear that they think I'm being an idiot. And I honestly don't care.

I don't really care about a lot of things but those things I do care about, I care about a lot. Anyway, I'm rambling.

This thread is for everybody, so nobody gets disqualified. One of the reasons I signed up for the programme is because I think it can help people to talk to similar minds. The other one is that despite it being more and more common, autism is still looked at as something terrible.
I remember a tv show in the Netherlands where a man was offering his sperm to women who couldn't get pregnant and didn't have money for artificial insemination. Turned out, this man had Asperger's. The host described it as 'A terrible, terrible, mental illness', and suddenly the problem was not the semi rapes, but the fact that the man had Asperger's and all the kids therefor must have it as well.

Got me so pissed off I even sent a letter to the tv show. Never heard anything about obviously.

In short, some general education is needed to people who don't have Asperger's, and the taboo of 'having autism' is, just as so many taboo's, hopelessly outdated. Same sex marriages are now commonly accepted in most places but when you say you have Asperger's, most people still treat you as an idiot or a halfwit. At least in my opinion.

One word of warning I'd like to give you and all people who read this. Most of you probably won't but I know some in real life who do. Don't blame everything that goes wrong on your autism. People will soon think of you as somebody who likes the attention. Some things might be related but a lot of things are just everyday problems we run into and because we have an 'escape' we use that, because that's how some of us (I at least) work sometimes, we choose the easy way and then blame it on autism. Try to avoid that, it's a trap I've fallen into a few times.

[Ephiral]

I think whether or not you get the diagnosis is irrelevant to the problems. Even if you are not officially diagnosed, if you can relate to it and if you have 'undiagnosed Asperger's', if it makes you feel comfortable, it can't be wrong. If people think of you as an asshole or, the reason why I started the topic, in my case, affectation, that's their loss, not ours.

Fair enough.

People say to me, even when I'm officially diagnosed, "oh but I have that as well and I don't have Asperger's". They don't say it in so many words but what little bodylanguage I understand, even to me it's clear that they think I'm being an idiot. And I honestly don't care.

I'm uneasy because I've seen a lot of the opposite: Someone gets called out on dickish behaviour, and says "I have Asperger's!" like it's an excuse. And then it comes out that the closest they've come to any sort of diagnosis or coping regimen is taking a thirty-second look at the diagnostic criteria.

This thread is for everybody, so nobody gets disqualified. One of the reasons I signed up for the programme is because I think it can help people to talk to similar minds. The other one is that despite it being more and more common, autism is still looked at as something terrible.

Oh, it absolutely can help, as long as you're careful to avoid affective death spirals and similar pitfalls. And honestly, I don't believe it's becoming more common - it's just that our detection has improved vastly in recent years. Given that our world is vastly socially driven - a trend that is on the rise - I would argue that it is prtty terrible - just not in the way most people think. (In other circumstances, it could be neutral or even strongly beneficial, but that is sadly not the world we live in for the most part.)

One word of warning I'd like to give you and all people who read this. Most of you probably won't but I know some in real life who do. Don't blame everything that goes wrong on your autism. People will soon think of you as somebody who likes the attention. Some things might be related but a lot of things are just everyday problems we run into and because we have an 'escape' we use that, because that's how some of us (I at least) work sometimes, we choose the easy way and then blame it on autism. Try to avoid that, it's a trap I've fallen into a few times.

Yeah, this is an easy and dangerous trap to fall into. A trick I've found pretty useful: When I find myself saying "Oh, that's because of Asperger's", I follow it up with "So what am I going to do about it?" I don't always have an answer, but it serves the purpose of shifting it from "excuse for failure" to "challenge to be overcome".

[Sabby]

I remember a tv show in the Netherlands where a man was offering his sperm to women who couldn't get pregnant and didn't have money for artificial insemination. Turned out, this man had Asperger's. The host described it as 'A terrible, terrible, mental illness', and suddenly the problem was not the semi rapes, but the fact that the man had Asperger's and all the kids therefor must have it as well.

It's absolutely disgusting what that man said about Autism, but you must admit that selling your sperm and not informing the buyer you have an inheritable mental illness is not okay.

[Oniya]

It's absolutely disgusting what that man said about Autism, but you must admit that selling your sperm and not informing the buyer you have an inheritable mental illness condition in general is not okay.

Legitimate sperm banks take a medical history for everything from heart disease to cancer.  If this guy had a high risk for diabetes and was doing this (again, without telling people), it should be just as much of an issue (if not more, since those conditions can be fatal.)

[Sabby]

Is mental illness not an okay term Oniya? I apologize if so, I've grown up with it as the standard (spent most of school in a unit and parents were active with the special needs community).

[Oniya]

There's some disagreement as to whether autism/Asperger's is actually an 'illness' (to the extent of BPD or schizophrenia), but the point I was going for is that this guy had something important in his medical history that he wasn't disclosing, and that was particularly wrong.  (I'm honestly not sure what the currently accepted umbrella terms are.)

[Sabby]

Ah, I understand now. Thanks.

[Dashenka]

It's absolutely disgusting what that man said about Autism, but you must admit that selling your sperm and not informing the buyer you have an inheritable mental illness is not okay.

I agree. But the emphasis on the show became the fact that he had autism and people skipped over the other fact rather easily. Something I found pretty disgusting. As if autism is some sort of terrible thing.

I don't think autism is qualified as an illness but as a disorder. Not entirely sure what the difference is exactly.

Yeah, this is an easy and dangerous trap to fall into. A trick I've found pretty useful: When I find myself saying "Oh, that's because of Asperger's", I follow it up with "So what am I going to do about it?" I don't always have an answer, but it serves the purpose of shifting it from "excuse for failure" to "challenge to be overcome".

I think we've all fallen for that trap at some point, even those without anything to fall back on. So despite the fact that I did (or perhaps sometimes still do) use my autism as an excuse. It's just that, an excuse. It's not a terrible thing and you shouldn't not do it for other people but mostly for yourself. Constantly taking the 'get ouf of jail free card' by waving your autism or whatever condition around, is getting you nowhere.

Knowing you have a condition is one thing, dealing with it is a second thing all together. :)

[Oniya]

I don't think autism is qualified as an illness but as a disorder. Not entirely sure what the difference is exactly.

'Illness' has the connotation that there is a treatment (such as BPD and schizophrenia have), even if there's not a cure.  'Disorder' implies something negative.  Depending on where on the spectrum someone falls, it could be barely noticeable. 

[VioletPanda]

  I am self diagnosed. but my dad was finally diagnosed this year at 43. It's difficult for me to do certain things...Since figuring out out this condition is, it has made it easier and yet more difficult.
  I am trying to join the military and am anxious if they know I am HFA, they will not let me in, so I am trying to work on my deficits  myself...It's very difficult. I forget to do things like eat and shower and its freaking me out. I've tried setting alarms and stuff, but having just gotten my first apartment and work is very stressful...It's making my symptoms very apparent and I am not sure what to do. :(

[Ephiral]

  I am self diagnosed. but my dad was finally diagnosed this year at 43. It's difficult for me to do certain things...Since figuring out out this condition is, it has made it easier and yet more difficult.
  I am trying to join the military and am anxious if they know I am HFA, they will not let me in, so I am trying to work on my deficits  myself...It's very difficult. I forget to do things like eat and shower and its freaking me out. I've tried setting alarms and stuff, but having just gotten my first apartment and work is very stressful...It's making my symptoms very apparent and I am not sure what to do. :(

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone. I've developed a lot of coping mechanisms myself over the years, but developing habits is a huge weak point for me too. I'd also love to hear what others have done about this. (I've tried pretty much every organizational tool under the sun, but they all fall down on the same point - logging tasks on the tool and checking it regularly are just two more habits I need to develop, and the entire problem is developing habits!)

[VioletPanda]

   I'm trying to think of coping mechinisms I've developed over the years....I put a lot of my plans in in phone, and I have a little white board in my bathroom to make sure I remember to do everything. It's kind of embaressing that I have to do it, but I just...forget. It makes me feel really ashamed I forget things like showering, as its so natural for most. It's something I'm still trying to get over. When I was still in high school, and even before then, it was easier. So much easier! My schedule was all set- when I got up, my morning routine and everything was all good.
  With college...I suddenly realized my routine was just a result of all the structure I had in my life, and suddenly I have none, and a million things to balance out that I have never had to do before.

  I have gotten better in social situations- but now that sort of thing seems to pale in comparison to the fact I can't even take online classes and go to work part time because I lost track of what week in the semester it was.
  Anyone have any tips? I am trying to do all this at once and spinning my wheels for the most part.

[Sabby]

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone. I've developed a lot of coping mechanisms myself over the years, but developing habits is a huge weak point for me too. I'd also love to hear what others have done about this. (I've tried pretty much every organizational tool under the sun, but they all fall down on the same point - logging tasks on the tool and checking it regularly are just two more habits I need to develop, and the entire problem is developing habits!)

I have a method that's done wonders for me, and I've shared it with any friends who are having emotional issues, and I usually get good feedback from them. Basically, I can spiral, emotionally, and say or think things that look absolutely silly in hindsight when I'm able to be rational again. So what I started doing was picturing one of my brothers friends, whose a really awesome guy. I both respect him and am kind of jealous of his social abilities. I take whatever I'm thinking at the time and imagine this person saying it out loud.

If he sounds like a prick, then I know I'm not thinking right and should just abandon the entire thought process. It's helped me in plenty of situations.

[Jusey1]

I, too, believe I have Aspergers Syndrome but had not been diagnosed yet. I am in the middle of doing the tests though. (I've already had many appointments and my final appointment should be June 2nd. After that, it'll be a few weeks before I'll figure out the results, so I might have to get back to you on this then).

But however, I do believe it's true to me as well as I do have many symptoms of it (Such a the ones you've mentioned in your original post)... And I don't think I have many issues with others though. Except for bullying, obviously, but nothing like where people do not understand about me having said disorder and saying things like "I don't have it", even though me and many others highly believe I do.

So in the end, I wouldn't have a full idea how to handle such situation, sorry.

[Caitlin]

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Not too long ago I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, which is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD). To come to this diagnose, I've had to take some tests, mostly oral and a lot of questions on how I was when I was younger. I've always felt a sort of blockage that limited me from doing certain things but I never thought of autism until now. Now having the diagnose fo me doesn't change anything. I anything, it's a relief because finally after all these years I now know what it is.

People around me, who don't know me think it's nothing and claim my psychologist has given the diagnose way too easily. When they ask me what I have that is autism related I always tell them the compulsive and ritualistic behaviour I have. I sort everything (when I was at the psychologist, I had to sort the pens on his desk from big to small, which made his job diagnosing me a lot easier ) and need a fixed schedule to do things. I cannot do things spontaneously. When I tell them that, a lot of people tell me they must have autism as well because they have the same thing, not understanding that it's just a few things of the Asperger syndrome.

Because I'm 27 and only been given the diagnose now, a lot of people talk down the autism, saying it's just a trend and that people are given the diagnose too easily. Before this I never took much notice to autism but now that I have it, I found I need to be careful who I say it too, because of the negativity that seems to hang around the whole thing. Personally I think most people think of autistic people as people who never go out, never make eye contact or can hardly talk, which is one of the three forms of ASD. The other two, Asperger and PDD-NOS, are not that common or not as visible.

I'm running my own business and I got some friends so I don't fit into the 'classic' view people have of autism and because of that, I often get the comment it's just affectation, rather than me actually having a real problem.

Does anybody have experiences with this or something similar and how do you handle with these people who don't seem to understand that Asperger is a real condition and that it can really block or limit people in their day to day living.

Welcome to the club, we got cookies. ;D

On a serious note, I found out that I'm an Asperger when I was about 23. It took me roughly two years to accept that and come to terms with it, but after the difficult phase things went uphill and haven't stopped since.

I mostly find that the autism gives me a lot of advantages. In addition, I've also worked out most of the disadvantages so they don't limit me as much as they used to. Social interactions can still be challenging at times, and I absolutely need a quiet place with as little distractions as possible in order to work efficiently, but apart from those two it's actually great to be an Asperger. I found that I can do a lot of things that other people can't, mostly because they lack the focus to get it done. (For example, programming & publishing a computer game, writing several novels in a foreign language, etc.)

I'll admit to not having followed the entire discussion, but I hope this is helpful to you. To me, being an Asperger is simply awesome. I sometimes wonder if we'd have world peace if the entire world was an Asperger. It'd certainly make things even more interesting. ^_^

[Caitlin]

There's some disagreement as to whether autism/Asperger's is actually an 'illness' (to the extent of BPD or schizophrenia), but the point I was going for is that this guy had something important in his medical history that he wasn't disclosing, and that was particularly wrong.  (I'm honestly not sure what the currently accepted umbrella terms are.)

I prefer to call it a handicap. We're born with it and there is no cure, i.e. you can cure the flue with medicine, but not blindness or a missing limb. Disorder would fit better than an illness though. I'm not ill and I'd feel offended being called as much.

[MistressFrancesca]

I'm on the Spectrum.   Officially diagnosed as HFA.  It's quite difficult some days, but I'm not upset that there is no cure.  I don't want to be cured, because then I would feel...wrong.  I do hope that someday will have a better presentation in the media (tv/movies/books..whatever)...and in REAL LIFE. 

[Dashenka]

The better presentation won't start as long as The Big Bang Theory is on television.

Don't get me wrong I love the show but the image that Sheldon Cooper projects to the world about autism is a bit... wrong. (Although I don't think he ever got officially 'diagnosed' in the show)

[Avis habilis]

Jim Parsons is on record as saying that he's asked the writers about it & they repeatedly deny that Sheldon is supposed to be anywhere on the spectrum at all. He's just a neurotic arrested peri-adolescent.

[Oniya]

What might serve better is if there were a show that embraced the diagnosis.  'NUMB3RS' and 'Bones' were both popular series, but shied away from actively diagnosing their lead characters as being on the spectrum.  Bones is notable for having two characters that fall on different portions of the spectrum: Temperance Brennan herself, and Zack Addy. 

[Dashenka]

I think that is the problem with 'acceptance' for autism. Many people don't know that it's a wide spectrum of features and that they all come in gradations.

What a lot of people still think when somebody has autism, is somebody who's got no social skills and is in other ways awkward, like Sheldon Cooper.

Many TV shows have a character that could be on the spectrum, I've never seen Bones or NUMB3RS but I think that one guy on Criminal Minds could also qualify. Makes you wonder why they are so afraid to openly say that the characters are on the autism spectrum. Is it public acceptance or ignorance or something else?

[Oniya]

It may be the sheer range of presentations that causes a problem.  (And yes, I realize I'm essentially arguing against my own suggestion.)  If a character had a clear diagnosis, then that could 'lock' public perception into thinking that particular point on the spectrum defined ASD.  Spencer Reid actually is confirmed by his actor as being on the spectrum, but by not making that concrete in the show, it keeps people from saying 'Oh, you can't have Aspergers.  You're nothing like Spencer.'

[Dashenka]

Hmm... that could make sense I guess.

[Caitlin]

Maybe it's for the same reason that a lead character is generally not disabled, blind, crippled, or handicapped in some other way. I view autism as a mental handicap, though Asperger is a light form of it. For us it can be annoying at times to be autistic, but at least we can still take care of ourselves and generally do well in life. Other forms of autism can be a heavy mental handicap, and include limited interaction with the outside world and a lack of mental development.

I think there is still a stigma to showing people that way on television, or maybe they're afraid alienating their viewing audience.

[Oniya]

There have actually been a number of shows where the lead character has been handicapped.  'Life Goes On' had a major character with Down's Syndrome, and 'Ironside' (originally starring Raymond Burr, and recently revived with Blair Underwood in the title role) has a paraplegic as the title character.  'Monk' was centered around a detective with extreme OCD, and worked him through overcoming many (but not all) of his more crippling issues.

[Dashenka]

Just one of those days where I'm bored with my autism and wishing I didn't feel so limited in my daily stuff  :'(

[Chrystal]

*hugs*

Poor Dasha.

How about plotting a new story with Auntie Chrystal?

[Jusey1]

I would like to point out that Aspergers Syndrome is no longer a thing in the U.S. You cannot be diagnosed with it anymore...

As of December 2013, they changed it so that whatever "Aspergers Syndrome" was, it is now covered in the main Autism Spectrum Disorder as a Level 1.


So instead of being diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome today, I was diagnosed with "Autism Spectrum Disorder - Level 1". The person who diagnosed me today explained it all and even said if I would've done this before December 2013, I would've been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome but due to the change, that's no longer a thing...

[Sabby]

I'm only Level 1? Geez, I'm never guna win this game.

[Dashenka]

I would like to point out that Aspergers Syndrome is no longer a thing in the U.S. You cannot be diagnosed with it anymore...

As of December 2013, they changed it so that whatever "Aspergers Syndrome" was, it is now covered in the main Autism Spectrum Disorder as a Level 1.


So instead of being diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome today, I was diagnosed with "Autism Spectrum Disorder - Level 1". The person who diagnosed me today explained it all and even said if I would've done this before December 2013, I would've been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome but due to the change, that's no longer a thing...

Same thing different name. I usually tell people I have an Autism Spectrum Disorder because most people know what autism is and not many have heard of Aspergers Syndrome. Probably has to do with insurances and all that no?

[Chrystal]

I would like to point out that Aspergers Syndrome is no longer a thing in the U.S. You cannot be diagnosed with it anymore...

As of December 2013, they changed it so that whatever "Aspergers Syndrome" was, it is now covered in the main Autism Spectrum Disorder as a Level 1.


So instead of being diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome today, I was diagnosed with "Autism Spectrum Disorder - Level 1". The person who diagnosed me today explained it all and even said if I would've done this before December 2013, I would've been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome but due to the change, that's no longer a thing...

’Tis but thy name that is my enemy;   
Thou art thyself though, not a Montague.   
What’s Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,   
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part          
Belonging to a man. O! be some other name:   
What’s in a name? that which we call a rose   
By any other name would smell as sweet;   
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call’d,   
Retain that dear perfection which he owes          
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name;   
And for that name, which is no part of thee,   
Take all myself.

We have a saying in my family, "Same meat, different gravy". Changing what you call something doesn't change what it is, any more that saying 1+1=3 (all that does is change the definition of 3, it doesn't change what 1+1 is).

So whether you call it Asperger's Syndrome, High Functioning Autistic Spectrum Disorder, or Cream Cheese Flavoured Moon-Rock, it is still the same thing!

[Jusey1]

We have a saying in my family, "Same meat, different gravy". Changing what you call something doesn't change what it is, any more that saying 1+1=3 (all that does is change the definition of 3, it doesn't change what 1+1 is).

So whether you call it Asperger's Syndrome, High Functioning Autistic Spectrum Disorder, or Cream Cheese Flavoured Moon-Rock, it is still the same thing!

I never said it wasn't the same thing. I know it is still the same no matter what... I was just pointing it out that "Aspergers Syndrome" will no longer be diagnosed under that name in the USA.

[Dashenka]

I never said it wasn't the same thing. I know it is still the same no matter what... I was just pointing it out that "Aspergers Syndrome" will no longer be diagnosed under that name in the USA.

We know. It's probably just an insurance trick or some political correctness, cause some people might probably offence to the 'syndrome' bit. *shrugs*

[Chrystal]

I never said it wasn't the same thing. I know it is still the same no matter what... I was just pointing it out that "Aspergers Syndrome" will no longer be diagnosed under that name in the USA.

Sorry Jusey, I wasn't intending to upset you in any way. If anything I was agreeing with you. I was simply pointing out how changing what something is called does not make it go away and pointing out how foolish some people are to think it does. Like the British government changing the name of "Unemployment Benefit" to "Jobseeker's Allowance". It's still The Dole, no matter what fancy words you wrap it up in!

And I would also like to point out that popular usage can overrule any government legislation. If everyone in the US still calls it Asperger's Syndrome, and when you get diagnosed with "High Function Autism Spectrum Disorder" or whatever they decide to call it, you reply "Do you mean Asperger's?" and everyone with Asperger's still call themselves "Aspies", the new rules can go take a running jump!

[Jusey1]

-snip-

Asperger's Syndrome is now Level 1 Autism Spectrum Disorder. (Level 1 being a low form of Autism. Level 3 is the highest).


As for changing it... Actually, from what I was told. They changed how they work with Autism in general and how they test it, look for it, diagnose it, etc. To make it better and to diagnose it properly to more people. The requirements also changed a bit too since it seems every Autistic person is different when it comes to what symptoms they have.

And honestly, the changes are fine. From my understanding, they are learning more about the disorder and are making changes to the diagnose section properly with what they've learned.

[Dingo]

Even though it feels a tad bit like thread necromancy, I decided to write this anyways, and maybe people have use for it. If there are any questions, I am more than willing to elaborate or share more in private.

Under new testing I actually end up worse than Asperger's Syndrom which was the first diagnosis I received, now, 6 years ago. And I have been retested, since I also have been on disability for the past six years. (The wonders of living on a socialist welfare state).

***

A short biography of all the points where people could have interceded, picked up something was wrong. Not that I'm angry about that anymore.

I was an incredibly independent child. My first word actually was 'No'. My next words were 'I can do it.' My parents tell that story with pride, and while they understand, especially my father takes my condition hard on himself. I could read before I entered into the Dutch school system (before kids even were expected to be reading). I was then in conjunction with the school board tested for emotional maturity, if perhaps I could skip a few classes. (Yeah, not one, a few!). The result of that test were that I did not have the emotional growth to be with kids not my age. And so I stuck into the same grade, was bored every day (except for one teacher who gave me extra credit kinda stuff when I was two years away from graduating from that school). I was picked on, but never bullied bad. I also had an audiographic eidetic memory (and a really good memory otherwise). I have report cards that actually call me a 'Little Professor'.

I also took music courses, learned to play the flute, the violin, keyboards and piano. Eventually the teachers came out. Black and white on paper. 'He is technically among the bests players there are. But he will never learn more than I can teach him, because he is too mechanical in nature.' Now, once I learn a trick, I stop being interested and go on. So I don't blame the teachers there from giving up. I did learn the trick.

Then I entered high school and it was hell for me. I was bullied to the point where, I cracked. Unleashed all the pent up frustration at everybody else for not understanding me, and unleashed on the biggest (in size and in bullying) and beat him to a pulp. Schoolyard rules apparently applied, because while I was suspended for 'fighting' (we both showed clear signs of that) and so was he, neither of us ever gotten into more trouble. The bullying ended, but I decided it was my fault and went to blend in. Keep my head down. So nobody would notice me much. I also stopped being meticulous about everything, to the point where I have now a diagnosable tick that makes me refuse any form of imposed order (whether from myself or others in my life). My memory became no less good, but just as chaotic as everything around me. I even was held back a year. Because of failing grades and because I was ... and this one irks me absolutely the most .. emotionally not mature enough. The failing grades were actually part of an average that was was higher than the class average. But there were a couple of teachers who just could not get my interest. And without interest. Well, I just don't do.

I skirted through high school on simple memory and those things that interested me, and I ended up on the University. The natural course for someone as smart as I am. I started out with Electrical Engineering. It was something that I found utterly fascinating. I failed. I have no interest at all in practical applications in that field. So after my first year I went to Computer Science. I failed. I can't stand doing unimaginative assignments that every student before me already has done and has no point. Does not develop the future of science further, nor gives any skills you need in the real life. (Also I discovered I'm weirdly troubled when it comes to writing code). Then I went to psychology. And I used a trick that can always get me to work and keep my interest. I made myself feel responsible for another. An acquaintance of mine in a similar boat. So we both pushed each other to rush through that education. We actually managed to push all three bachelor years, minus the internships into a 2 year period. Sure, we didn't have all the courses finished, but that was more because we didn't take them due to time constraints. And then the other guy burned out. Leaving me, while he recovered in a mental institution. And I flunked psychology too.

During my whole university experience I invented a total new version of myself. Outgoing, social, smart. Since I can be a little intellectually arrogant it does cause problems in the 'real world' but there, I was amazing. Happiest time of my life. I was successfully womanizing, moderately sporty, socially active in a ton of clubs. Games, Books, Theater. I made actual friends. Some I still have. I became an alcoholic, but hey, you're s student, that's okay. I kicked the habit and kept up the act. It seemed to work. So it works right ?

But to all good things comes an end. I was hiding myself from my own administration. Money ran out. And I was evicted. Ending up back at my parents. With no job. No education. And taking up space. Then I found the perfect job for me. But unfortunately, it wasn't actually intended as a real job. (Some kind of government program to keep people from sitting at home while unemployed). I seriously loved that job. My boss there. My colleagues. Sure, I was a smug arrogant bastard. But the people there also had flaws. And I was put in place verbally, but still could be the smug arrogant bastard in those fields I know I am better, and nobody minded.

That ended and I ended up on a horrible work floor as a tax-asssessor data entry type person, for the property taxes. I had done that job before. And I loved it. But there, my colleagues were not nice. (Stupid civil servants). And I lost interest. My job quality started to go and I was let go.

I ended up in another 'government' style job to get people to work. This time something that truly challenged my intellectual and social capacities and I loved every single moment of that job. Until my senior colleague, who had been feeding me all the extra work, since he was going to be retired soon anyways, retired and his replacement came in. My age. Finished his education. But he was so ... dumb. Sure he had the people skills required. And he couldn't stand me. I know for  fact (from a colleague) that this guy actually saw me as a threat. But as part of his high potential kinda thing, his position was turned into a management thing. And I was given the boot. In those last few months, while I knew that I was fired, I decided to finally seek help.

The first diagnosis. Asperger's Syndrome, collaborated by a second different specialist (since I did not want to accept that diagnosis back then, not because it didn't fit, but because of the weight of the label.) Followed by a definite diagnosis of AD(H)D. But I already knew that. I don't physically bounce a lot, but mentally, it's a whole different story. But even with those diagnosis, and professional help to get my life on track (using all the social support given), I kept sliding down.
Third diagnosis: A physiological depression. And then later on in that same year a fourth, totally different diagnosis: Palindromic rheumatism of the worst possible kind.

Anti-depressants, painkillers. Sitting at home, doing nothing. That was my life. That is actually my life now. But I stopped with the medications. I have a dog now. I'm in a good place.

I know my self-defense mechanisms much better now. And I also learned a few tricks to make ... real .. social interactions easier.

But being happy ? Since that is what apparently everybody should strive for. I don't even know how happy feels.

In all this rambling and oversharing (which is my main defense mechanism) I probably left out a lot that might help. So just ask if you want. I promise I'll try to give my best advice.

With regards,

Dingo

[Sabby]

I just wanted to share something here. It's going to be a little more flowery and emotionally charged then what I usually share, but I think it's important I express as much as I can for context.

For my entire life, I've been completely unable to socialize with others. My head is too busy and my thoughts come out whenever they want to, meaning I can talk over people, interrupt them and change the subject. It made school an awkward and isolated misery, and it made my first two attempts to move out and be an adult complete disasters. It's only through Government assistance that I've been able to get by. The Australian Government pays my rent and my food and my bills and I've spent years just existing on my own in a glass cell because it's the only way I could get by. I could only look out at the world and try and convince myself I didn't want to be a part of it, because I knew that every time I tried it would just be more embarrassment, more aggravation, more self loathing. Elliquiy was my only social outlet since 2007, and my time here has been rocky at the best of times and downright embarrassing most others.

All of this time, I have been against medication. I had rebelled against my parents attempts to 'fix' me back in high school and took that pig headedness with me all the way up until now. It was just easier to blame everyone else for wanting to change me then actually face the reality of my Autism. My misery and isolation is my own damn fault, and I'm only now waking up to this. This last year I've been doing the sensible thing and taking my medication. My life has completely changed. I feel like all this time I had a big gaping wound in my brain and I've just been used to it, and now it's practically gone. I still have to learn my social skills and it's going to be a long and bumpy road until I'm happy with myself, but at least I can start walking.

Guys, don't be afraid of seeing a professional. Having friends and family there to support you is always a big help, but sometimes it's just not enough, and that's no ones fault. I know it can be a little degrading to go to a psychiatrist, but this doesn't mean you're broken or messed up. There's nothing wrong with trying to get help. Believe me, I've resisted this all my life and it was the biggest mistake I ever made.

Well, that's my story. I hope it helps someone.

[Dashenka]

Thanks for sharing.

Social skills are overrated. Why should 'we' learn how to interact with 'them', when 'they' cannot communicate to 'us'?

It's a little black and white as I state it but something I always found striking is how the person with the communicative issues has to learn and the 'normal' people don't. They can't communicate to some of us either. That sort of puts them in the same spot as us doesn't it?

Also some people are so strong in communicating, they tend to be very dominant in those terms.

Just saying that you shouldn't put too much attention to people's reaction when you feel you did something wrong. You're doing the best you can, if they can't see or understand that, it's their fault, not yours.

[Sabby]

That's the thing, people HAVE learned to communicate with me. My family have and the very few people I've been able to call friends also learned, but majority of those relationships faded because of my difficulties. To just sit back and say "Pfft, they should come to me!" is to avoid the problem. If you want to make friends, you gotta meet people half way, and the only way I learned that was from the very few special people in my life that came all the way to me.

[Dashenka]

I didn't mean sit back and wait. That's not gonna work. Some people just refuse to talk normally to you when they see you struggle to communicate. They think you are rude or something like that. It happened to me when I didn't make eye contact with somebody. He said I was rude and left. That's his loss not mine. I'm doing my best and if he can't see that or accept the fact that I'm handicapped on this item, so be it.

[Sabby]

Social skills are overrated.

I missed this before.

As someone whose fighting just to learn them and has suffered emotionally most of his life due to a lack of them, I cannot disagree with you more on this. We're a social species. We crave interacting with others. Not being able to achieve that, at least to me, feels like being fundamentally broken.

[Noisekick]

Well I am to be tested in December due to social adaptation issues and a specific awkwardness.

[Dashenka]

Join us! Join us!

XD

Nah in all seriousness, good luck. Don't let the results get you down, no matter what. You're still you, even with a diagnosis of autism, you'll still be you.

[Chrystal]

Join us! Join us!

XD

Nah in all seriousness, good luck. Don't let the results get you down, no matter what. You're still you, even with a diagnosis of autism, you'll still be you.

I agree. And in fact, I think having a diagnosis in some ways makes it easier to cope. I've said this before. Being able to say "Yes this is because I have high-functioning autism", (or whatever the fuck they want to call it), helps when you find yourself in a situation you can't cope with.

When I was growing up, they didn't call it autism, they didn't call it asperger's they didn't call it anything. If you were really bad to the point of being unable to function in society at all, you were labelled as a "spastic" - although that term, which in the UK is now considered very insulting, was officially a reference to cerebral palsy. If, like me, you were higher up the autistic spectrum, you were considered to be naughty, inattentive, easily distracted, throwing tantrums, basically it wasn't considered a "disorder", it was just "bad behaviour".

When my mother saw a TV program on ADHD in the early 1980s, she looked at me and said "Maybe that's what you've got?" I didn't say it, but my reaction was "No shit, Sherlock!"

[Ephiral]

There's another way it makes things easier: It can make you aware of problems you didn't know you were having. I'd never even considered the possibility that I might have anxiety, for example; I just thought that I found it stressful to go out and get things done because that probably meant dealing with people.

[mookestink]

There's another way it makes things easier: It can make you aware of problems you didn't know you were having.

That's true of mental health in general.  Learning that my teenage rebellion was actually self-medication for underlying disease changed my perspective greatly.

I have a question.  How often does a diagnosis for autism lead to suicide?  I know that's a significant danger for schizophrenia.

[Dashenka]

That's true of mental health in general.  Learning that my teenage rebellion was actually self-medication for underlying disease changed my perspective greatly.

I have a question.  How often does a diagnosis for autism lead to suicide?  I know that's a significant danger for schizophrenia.

Never? Why would you commit suicide when you have autism? A

And people with autism are more likely to be schizophrenic? Is that what you are saying?

Never heard that before. I'd like to read the article you foudn that from though. :)

[mookestink]

Dashenka, I have schizophrenia, and I believe the figure as to how many schizophrenics successfully kill themselves is somewhere around 10%.

I think you answered my question by being surprised by it. :)

[Oniya]

Never? Why would you commit suicide when you have autism? A

And people with autism are more likely to be schizophrenic? Is that what you are saying?

Never heard that before. I'd like to read the article you foudn that from though. :)

Ah - not 'A diagnosis of autism is a risk factor for schizophrenia', but 'A diagnosis for schizophrenia is a risk factor for suicide'.  *was also confused*

[Dashenka]

Ah - not 'A diagnosis of autism is a risk factor for schizophrenia', but 'A diagnosis for schizophrenia is a risk factor for suicide'.  *was also confused*

Okay. That makes more sense :) I wouldn't know about schizophrenia. I was more surprised at the link I thought you (mookestink) made between autism and schizophrenia :)

[mookestink]

I was curious if there was a link between autism and suicide.  I dunno if one exists.

[Chrystal]

Reading back over that, simply highlights the fact that people need to be more careful in what they say!

I read the whole sequence fresh and while looking at it in total it is obvious what Mookestink meant, taking each post in isolation it is also easy to see where the misconception came from!

In fact, a quick google search reveals this:
http://www.autism-help.org/family-suicide-depression-autism.htm

Autism can lead to depression, which can in turn lead to thoughts of suicide.  I have no idea what the statistic is, I have notr read that article nor have I done more research. However, there clearly is a causal link.

[Dashenka]

Autism can lead to depression, which can in turn lead to thoughts of suicide.  I have no idea what the statistic is, I have notr read that article nor have I done more research. However, there clearly is a causal link.

Well then the way I see it, depression can lead to suicide. Autism can lead to depression so autism can lead to suicide but that's not a direct link or connecting. People get depressed over many things.

[Chrystal]

Well then the way I see it, depression can lead to suicide. Autism can lead to depression so autism can lead to suicide but that's not a direct link or connecting. People get depressed over many things.

Dasha, that's like saying there is no direct link between guns and death... Guns can be used to shoot people and being shot can result in death...

Just because people also get killed in car crashes, doesn't mean that guns don't cause death!

The fact that autism can cause suicide is a link, however tenuous.

How many autistic people commit suicide is something I don't know. I would imagine that the number is quite small, because people with severe autism are monitored and medicated anyway, and those of us with mild symptoms would generally be able to recognise the signs of depression and do something about it... At least in so far as anyone would.

I think the issue here is not whether there is a link, but whether there is a quantifiable link? As with the link between smoking and cancer, there needs to be a sufficiently large population study of people with Autism and people who commit suicide to see if there is any reasonable correlation or whether the autism was merely a factor in the suicide.

As an interesting aside, there was a doctor in the UK a while back published a study he had done that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism, resulting in a measles epidemic. The study was in fact proved to be false. He had checked how many children with autism had received the MMR jab and found a positive correlation of 100%! He then did a limited test in one small section of the population to see how many of those who had recieved the MMR jab had developed autism. His sample was deliberately small, and all those positives had actually developed autism from other causes, which he chose to disregard.

My point is that for there to be a quantifiable link, there needs to be a sufficiently large data sample.

[Lustful Bride]

I have Autism as well (high functioning) and Aspergers. *shrugs* it doesn't bother me. I am a very quiet person with my nose in a book a lot. I also spend a lot of time doing ritual behaviors. If I tap on something with my right hand more then once I have to do it with me left hand as well. And vice versa....my god It can eb a pain sometimes when It happens while I am typing. >_>

Still I do my best to manage myself and be a productive member of society.  :P

So never fear, just because you have something doesn't mean it defines you.

[Caehlim]

My older brother has been diagnosed with Aspergers, I used to go with him to a lot of the Autism Association social activities and I've met a lot of people on the Autism spectrum. I have no idea whether I would be diagnosed with it myself or not, since I do seem to share a lot of the typical traits myself although it seems to cause a little less difficulty for myself than for my brother which is why I've never bothered to see a psychologist.

[Sabby]

Having a strange problem... I haven't changed my medication, so I'm not sure what could have prompted this. I'm mostly the same, still very cold to peoples feelings, but I'm finding that extreme displays of emotion kick my empathy into over drive :/ It's like a I have an empathy threshold and won't feel a thing up until a certain point.

I just saw a cartoon where a bulldog thought a kitten had died. The crying was ridiculously overacted, so it wasn't supposed to illicit a real reaction, but for some reason the excess just did something to me. I don't like it.

[Dashenka]

Hello my fellow Elliquiyans,

yesterday, 2 April, 2015, was World Autism Day.


Now I don't want to sound bitter or anything but when it's world ALS day, people throw buckets over their heads and on Cancer or Heart day, people run marathons or something but Autism day seems to have passed reasonably quiet.

I feel that autism in general it's still overlooked and ignored mostly, especially to those who are not 'visibly' autistic. Whatever the hell that means.

Which bothers me cause I'm getting worse and worse with it and I seem to be unable to break out of my daily rhythm and the harder I try, the more nervous I get, so I just stick to it. Which results in a lot of disagreement with other people who say I should stop being a wuss and man up. Which pisses me off even more and makes me even more nervous, which isn't doing any good at all to my already limited communication skills.

Speaking of a downward spiral.

Oh well.

*rant ends*

And a happy belated world autism day people. We deserve it and we know it. I guess.

[Dimir]

I admit that I have high-functioning autism and didn't realize that yesterday was World Autism Day. :(

[Ephiral]

Was away so missed this; wasn't aware of the day either. On a brighter note, we've still got Autistic Pride Day coming up in nine days (which I also just discovered). Seems more worth celebrating, really.

[Dashenka]

Happy 8th annual world autism awareness day to us all!

[AmberStarfire]

I've taken online tests before and showed up as being a couple of points outside the spectrum, so if they have any kind of accuracy, I'm kind of borderline on the spectrum. There are a lot of behaviours I identify with, but it's not really something I think about or discuss that much. I can live my life and no one would know, more than likely. It's mainly just the social stuff that's been bugging me lately. I tend toward being a hermit.

[Lustful Bride]

I've taken online tests before and showed up as being a couple of points outside the spectrum, so if they have any kind of accuracy, I'm kind of borderline on the spectrum. There are a lot of behaviours I identify with, but it's not really something I think about or discuss that much. I can live my life and no one would know, more than likely. It's mainly just the social stuff that's been bugging me lately. I tend toward being a hermit.

I wouldn't put my faith 100% in an online test, id recommend seeing an actual doctor trained and who studied up on the subject. And even they don't get it right all of the time.

[AmberStarfire]

If I see one for another reason I might, but I don't see it as problematic enough to warrant it.

If I want to be more social, I can go out and do that, but I just don't feel much inclination to be (and it's not depression because I'm actually quite happy). I know it's good for me to get out a bit though so I do every so often.

[Atropus]

I can offer some advice, although I fear I might have missed the bulk of the discussion, and I suspect our experiences (I'd been diagnosed when I was seven) might have been radically different (I was, apparently 'high' on the spectrum). While now (I'm in my early twenties) I don't initially show as many signs of the condition I displayed when I was much longer, I tend to explain it as a rather genuine effort on my part to 'improve'. While you might initially have had difficulties, observation and effort eventually leave you with enough coping strategies to get on in regular life fairly well, even if in my own case I still come off as 'extremely eccentric'. Condensing that down, it tends to be easier to explain it as 'solid work' on your own part, although it can depend on severity, and how you coped in the earl-... I'm rambling, apologies.

In short? I imagine you worked hard to cope with your condition, or to avoid it disrupting you when possible. Aside from that, I've pointed out my inability to do certain things, such as eat, when it'd be sudden and distracting from a current task, which tends to startle and, in essence, gives any would be questioners an example of how Aspergers is different from simply being indecisive. Again, sorry if this seems...rambling, I've always had trouble putting the condition into precise words even after growing up with it.

Also, 'Hi'... I should have started with that shouldn't I?

[Hunter]

Asperger's Syndrome can be a very tough to identify correctly.   I know this from personal experience and even then it took a very skilled psychologist several years to figure out that this was part of the issues that I've been dealing with every day since I was about 8.   Asperger's, like any other form of Autism, is typically stacked with more than one symptom.   It's not usual (such as in my case) that Asperger's will also include other mental conditions (again in my case I have Bipolar Depression stacked on top of it).  I've been fully disabled due to the cocktail I have since the middle of 2010 (after being forced to live on the streets for a while) so what I've found helps the most is to have a support structure.

For most people, that's family and/or friends to lean upon.   Autism doesn't make you weak, though other people may think you that way.   What it does is give you a different perspective on things, even if you really can't socialize for more than a few hours at a time.

The key, I think, is to accept then learn and then adjust.     You're young enough, and it sounds like you have a family that still cares about you.    So, don't give up!

[Dashenka]

*kicks the dead horse back to life*


I just feel like I have to share something. Call it a revelation, call it something else.

This is something that I experience myself. It doesn't mean that it's something that everybody with autism should or can relate to but...

.. one of the things that are characteristic for autism, is a very active brain. For me that means that I cannot 'do nothing'. I have to keep busy or my brain starts running wild. For example, when I'm gaming, I get enough stimulation to focus on what I'm doing. While watching TV though, I can't and I constantly get up, do other stuff and get back to watching tv.

Very recently I was on my honeymoon in Israel and we visited the Sea of Galilei and what we experienced there was complete silence. Almost overwhelming but I loved it. I looked around, moved to tears and then that stupid brain of mine began rambling again. It's a two hour drive back to the hotel and it will be around 7 when we get back, what do we eat, where do we eat. Should I take a shower before going for dinner...

I wanted to saviour and enjoy the moment of being there in that utterly beautiful place with my wife but I couldn't because my brain wouldn't let me.

And because it kept on rambling and asking those questions, I had to answer them so I asked my wife, after five minutes of total silence and enjoying it. "What do we have for dinner tonight." She knows me, respects me and answered the question, putting my brain at ease (at least for another minute) but it had completely ruined the moment, not just for me, but to Ava as well.

Because of this hyper active brain, I find it extremely difficult to focus on anything. I'm hyper sensitive to sounds but when it is finally quiet, my brain starts running wild with thoughts and ideas and worries and whatnot.
It's also causing an issue or two here on Elliquiy. I have an idea, post it and the next morning I'm like... why did I post that? That's the worst post in the world...

I've been offered a mindfulness training now, especially developed for people with autism. I'm hoping it helps because I'm getting really quite tired of my own brain :)

[Tolvo]

When I was in a psych ward being evaluated I was diagnosed with ASD, OCD, and Schizophrenia. It was honestly a bit of a surprise, all three do run in my family. OCD I was fairly certain I had since a lot of my symptoms were stronger and more obvious. It was surprising since often the image of an Autistic person is someone is someone who has difficulty communicating, expressing, and understanding others. It can definitely impair the abilities to do those things depending on the form. As I talked with my doctors and they evaluated me they noticed that essentially I was as they termed "High function" but that it was because of my analytical nature and drive to recognize patterns and imitate other people. That I actually had severe impairment in these things but was excelling at communication and my social life by analyzing and researching human behavior and studying those around me while others could merely pick up on the subtleties in an instant. They noted it was especially apparent since if someone did something illogical or that didn't make sense with a thought process that could not be understood I lacked any ability to communicate or understand them. It was also the co-morbid mixture of ASD, OCD, and Schizophrenia, that made things extra hard. I have extreme empathy, I over empathize with others and they noted I spend so much time focusing on understanding and respecting the emotions of others I don't do it for myself when I need to. I often don't have any care for my self or my own feelings and focus almost exclusively on helping others and making them happy, which they told me was very unhealthy and was self destructive. Some things though I'm not sure I can ever change, like all of the ticks I have. It's a constant battle against myself and many parts of my brain that work against me and make my thought processes different from people who are neurotypical. While I don't think anyone else should have to be typical, or that being neuroatypical is a bad thing, for myself I feel like it makes me lesser and will only hinder me and make life harder for everyone around me.

[Dashenka]

There are things in your story that I can relate to.

What helped me always is saying to myself that I have an austism disorder but I am not an autism disorder.

I am who I am and people love me for who I am and I am certain that there are people who love you for who you are. You don't have to change who you are, you just have to accept who you are and find a way to deal with who you are. That can be for others to help you and to maybe go the extra mile when they are around you.

Everybody who knows me, knows that I don't like big crowds. So when we were planning the wedding, at first we wanted a big wedding, lots of friends and all but my wife then said no, we're not going to do that. Because you can't deal with that.

So it's really important when you don't know your own limits or boundaries that somebody close to you can set them for you.


As for 'being normal', my therapist called those without autism or any mental disorder 'muggles'. So now everybody who is 'normal' to me is a muggle :)

[Tolvo]

There's a reason I use typical over normal. While what is most common is what is considered normal, normal also has more connotations of things being accepted, good, what should be. Typical is more about frequency. My brain is atypical, that is a fact. Mental illnesses and disorders are rather common yet it is still an atypical variant. However what is typical and what is atypical is not good or bad. This is why many of the communities for those with mental illnesses or disorders of the brain prefer these terms, as well as the term neurodivergence. There is no shame in having different neural pathways and thought processes and brain chemistry than others. The shame I feel comes both from the disorders themselves effecting my thoughts and from a culture that treats being neuroatypical as shameful when it's not something that should bring about shame. 

[Dashenka]

You guys,

I know there's more people out there who, like me, are struggling with the situation regarding corona.

Shut down countries, empty shelves at the shop and a big 'I have no idea what's going on'.

To me, they cause serious unrest in my head. Combined with anxiety, anger and a lot of misguided information, even if I was allowed to work, I simply couldn't because of all the unrest in my head. I'm sure this is not just a thing for ASS and ADHD but for a lot of others as well.

Shit's changing and it's changing fast and we all have to deal with it.


Just know that it's okay to feel any or all of the above and then some. Accept that you struggle a bit more than maybe your neighbour or your partner or whoever. It's hard to do and it's going to be even harder as things continue to be uncertain and changing. But acceptance is the first step.

If you ever feel like talking/typing about it, know that I'll listen. Here or in PM or on Discord or whatever. I'm experiencing the struggles myself so I know first hand how hard these times can be.

If you know somebody who is struggling, with anything, don't hesitate to help them. Please. We need each other in these absolutely crazy times.

[Foxydemon911]

I also have Aspergers
Let’s be friends?

[Asriel346]

Not too long ago I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, which is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD). To come to this diagnose, I've had to take some tests, mostly oral and a lot of questions on how I was when I was younger. I've always felt a sort of blockage that limited me from doing certain things but I never thought of autism until now. Now having the diagnose fo me doesn't change anything. I anything, it's a relief because finally after all these years I now know what it is.

People around me, who don't know me think it's nothing and claim my psychologist has given the diagnose way too easily. When they ask me what I have that is autism related I always tell them the compulsive and ritualistic behaviour I have. I sort everything (when I was at the psychologist, I had to sort the pens on his desk from big to small, which made his job diagnosing me a lot easier ) and need a fixed schedule to do things. I cannot do things spontaneously. When I tell them that, a lot of people tell me they must have autism as well because they have the same thing, not understanding that it's just a few things of the Asperger syndrome.

Because I'm 27 and only been given the diagnose now, a lot of people talk down the autism, saying it's just a trend and that people are given the diagnose too easily. Before this I never took much notice to autism but now that I have it, I found I need to be careful who I say it too, because of the negativity that seems to hang around the whole thing. Personally I think most people think of autistic people as people who never go out, never make eye contact or can hardly talk, which is one of the three forms of ASD. The other two, Asperger and PDD-NOS, are not that common or not as visible.

I'm running my own business and I got some friends so I don't fit into the 'classic' view people have of autism and because of that, I often get the comment it's just affectation, rather than me actually having a real problem.

Does anybody have experiences with this or something similar and how do you handle with these people who don't seem to understand that Asperger is a real condition and that it can really block or limit people in their day to day living.

Hello there,

I'll let you decide if our experiences are related. It might sound like I'm talking about me here, but the intention is to share my experience of those I've met with ASD from my perspective, because I have a pretty positive view of people with ASD.  I haven't figured out why exactly, but I tend to get on really well with people with ASD. I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 20s. In contrast to what you said I'm impulsive and get bored quickly if things are too repetitive or 'samey'. And I mean anything, from TV shows, to schoolwork and even relationships. Before I was diagnosed, I thought organising anything was a waste of time better spent doing something more active. I'm also irritatingly extroverted. By that I mean, I love being around people, but I don't always realise when people are busy, or just not in the mood to talk. Occasionally I say something really, really dumb too.

If I had to guess why we tend to click, it may be because I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve, so I'm very easy to read. Once I learned that friends with ASDs actually liked it when I explained how I was feeling, we really hit it off. In my experience, people with ASD are usually happy to tell me if I did something they didn't like too, so I don't get the worry I get with some people that I'm saying something stupid without realising. There's some interesting between our conditions too, as well as differences. If I really enjoy something, I literally (not figuratively) can't get enough of it. The biggest one for me is psychology, as it happens. It can be a huge benefit, but I have to be careful I'm not ignoring other, more important or time-sensitive things. This may not apply to you, but those I know with ASD often ask questions that could be interpreted as rude, but I love it. I don't really have a filter and understand they're not being intentionally rude. In my case, I often understand exactly what social rule I broke as soon as I've said something wrong, but the impulse to say it was just too strong to resist.There's something really compelling to me about people that aren't afraid to call me out on things. For example, a friend with ASD once asked me "You say 'I know what you mean' a lot, but do you really know what I mean?". It was clear they were frustrated with me about it, and it could have sounded rude, but I loved it. One of the best questions I've ever been asked in fact. I agreed that I do say it a lot, and though I've never really thought about it, I guessed the purpose was to show solidarity. To make it clear I understood why they felt the way they did. The epiphany though, was that I realised that it can also sound a little patronising. I didn't personally go through the things they did, so how could I know exactly how they felt? So I learned to say "I can't imagine how you must feel right now" sometimes too.

I also talk too much, I'll try and make the rest a little more succinct. People have said very similar things to me about my condition too. Some understood when I explained that there's what the media say about ADHD, and what science says and those have very little in common. People repeat "facts" they've heard, but forget where they heard them. We're all guilty of talking about thing we don't understand sometimes. I try and remind myself that I didn't have a clue about ADHD until I was diagnosed either. In your case, your existence proves that ASD isn't diagnosed too early, or over diagnosed. As does mine for ADHD. But there will always be people who will never understand, even if the truth is staring them in the face.  Some think they're doing you a favour, by 'freeing' you of a label. We all like to believe we're in complete control of our own mind, and our own thoughts. Even though no one is, at least not all the time. Tell someone who just lost someone close to them that they will feel better soon. Does the fact that it's true make them any less upset right now?

In some cases, people aren't just misinformed, they are wilfully ignorant. I think the simplest explanation for why they refuse to understand is because they don't have to. They don't have to deal with it so they have no idea what it's like. I imagine it makes them feel brave for saying something controversial (although it's anything but). I think if they were honest with themselves, they'd realise they accuse people with conditions like ASD and ADHD of 'faking' because it makes them feel good about themselves. In their mind, they could "fake" problems too and have an "easy life" but they're stronger than we are because they don't do that. They worry about the effects of putting labels on children, because they have no idea how much worse the effects of not labelling it can be, when it's the one that fits. To them, the risk of one misdiagnosis is enough to justify ignoring ASD as a condition entirely.  To us, the risk of anyone living their lives not knowing justifies occasional mistakes which can easily be rectified. And refusing to accept they exist means that's one less thing about the world they have to understand and care about. It makes the gap between them and the mentally ill that much wider than reality. In my experience, some of the people who claimed "everyone is a little ADHD" almost certainly had ADHD, and not just a little.  We all accept that everyone gets a cold sometimes, but others have asthma and need an inhalor. But I think as a species we haven't quite accepted that we all get a little mentally ill sometimes too, but others have chronic conditions that they have to live with. I know that makes them sound like terrible people, but I don't think they realise that's why they do it. They think they are acting logically and based on facts. A lot of the worst things people do are like that. How often do any of us stop and ask ourselves tough questions like "you say you know what I mean a lot, but do you really know what I mean?". Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

To (finally) answer your question though, the simple answer is to leave them to their ignorance, and remind yourself that anyone you really want in your life that knows you well would never believe things like that and never would. Their ignorance doesn't change what is true. Maybe read that sentence again, to make sure it sinks in. Ask yourself, what effect does them believing that have on the world, or on your life? What is the worst thing that could happen? Is it likely that it will, when you think it through? If the answer is yes, then what could you do about it?

Even if most people believed ASD wasn't real, would that make them any less wrong? Look at the people we elect. Look at the music in the charts. The Minions movie made $1.159 billion at the box office. Transformers: Age of Extinction made $1.104 billion. Does the fact that so many people paid money to see them mean they are good movies? The reviews for both were about as cutting and derogatory as reviews get, yet people kept going to see them for weeks anyway. That should tell you something about how stubborn and oblivious we can all be.  I know that's easier said than done though, especially for people with ASD in my experience. Another thing us ADHD folk share with you is low frustration tolerance. I wouldn't have written all this if it didn't get to me too. It's harder than usual right now with everything going on in the world. Harder to take your mind off all the madness, because it feels like it's everywhere. But it will pass. Nothing lasts forever. The only solution I've found is to just close my ears to it, and when it gets really bad, I ask myself questions like the ones above. But you're not alone. Feel better soon.

[Dashenka]

Thanks for reading it and welcome to Elliquiy :)

Hope your approval process goes smoothly.

When I posted this topic, I was a lot younger and didn't have the information and experience I have now.

There's something really compelling to me about people that aren't afraid to call me out on things. For example, a friend with ASD once asked me "You say 'I know what you mean' a lot, but do you really know what I mean?". It was clear they were frustrated with me about it, and it could have sounded rude, but I loved it. One of the best questions I've ever been asked in fact. I agreed that I do say it a lot, and though I've never really thought about it, I guessed the purpose was to show solidarity. To make it clear I understood why they felt the way they did. The epiphany though, was that I realised that it can also sound a little patronising. I didn't personally go through the things they did, so how could I know exactly how they felt? So I learned to say "I can't imagine how you must feel right now" sometimes too.

I (and I think a lot of people with any form of autism) cannot pretend. If you ask me what I think of your shoes, I will give you dead honest answer. If I think you're an imbecile, I will let you know. Which is what offends a lot of people. They don't want to hear the truth, they want to be given a compliment. Never ever ask an Aspy for a compliment. Similar to what you mentioned, there's this introductionary greeting: Hello. How are you?

It isn't meant as a question. It's meant as an extention to the hello. But I, and again I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this, hear a question, so we answer it. Honestly. Which often leads to really awkward situations where somebody who's just trying to be polite gets a whole load of negativity poured out over them because the person they asked 'How are you' to, is actually going through a rough patch.

I know now what people mean with it, but I still haven't figured out what to say to that. When I say, 'Yeah, I'm alright' (which is what they want to hear) I feel like Im not being honest and that just feels wrong.

In some cases, people aren't just misinformed, they are wilfully ignorant. I think the simplest explanation for why they refuse to understand is because they don't have to. They don't have to deal with it so they have no idea what it's like. I imagine it makes them feel brave for saying something controversial (although it's anything but). I think if they were honest with themselves, they'd realise they accuse people with conditions like ASD and ADHD of 'faking' because it makes them feel good about themselves. In their mind, they could "fake" problems too and have an "easy life" but they're stronger than we are because they don't do that. They worry about the effects of putting labels on children, because they have no idea how much worse the effects of not labelling it can be, when it's the one that fits. To them, the risk of one misdiagnosis is enough to justify ignoring ASD as a condition entirely.  To us, the risk of anyone living their lives not knowing justifies occasional mistakes which can easily be rectified. And refusing to accept they exist means that's one less thing about the world they have to understand and care about. It makes the gap between them and the mentally ill that much wider than reality. In my experience, some of the people who claimed "everyone is a little ADHD" almost certainly had ADHD, and not just a little.  We all accept that everyone gets a cold sometimes, but others have asthma and need an inhalor. But I think as a species we haven't quite accepted that we all get a little mentally ill sometimes too, but others have chronic conditions that they have to live with. I know that makes them sound like terrible people, but I don't think they realise that's why they do it. They think they are acting logically and based on facts. A lot of the worst things people do are like that. How often do any of us stop and ask ourselves tough questions like "you say you know what I mean a lot, but do you really know what I mean?". Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

This is the part I meant with the affectation.

"What do you have then? What does autism mean?"

Then, when I answer them, I often get what you get as well.

"Oh but I don't like busy places either and I don't have autism."

Comments like that exactly made me often feel like I was being a wuss. I felt I had to suck it up and deal with it, because that's what everybody else did and does. It took me a while to accept what I have and what that makes me.
At the same time, I don't really blame people anymore for not understanding. It's as you said. Not everybody is interested in it, so they didn't research it, so they know very little about it. It's normal.

I've really come to terms with who I am and what I can and cannot do and I'm now helping others to try and achieve the same things.

[SINless]

"Oh but I don't like busy places either and I don't have autism."

"I sneeze a lot too, but I don't have hayfever"

"I get headaches, but I don't have migraines"

"I get winded easily but I don't have COPD"


See how silly it sounds when it's physical conditions, but when it's a mental issue, we all accept statements like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B5nfkaeplc

[Dashenka]

"I sneeze a lot too, but I don't have hayfever"

"I get headaches, but I don't have migraines"

"I get winded easily but I don't have COPD"


See how silly it sounds when it's physical conditions, but when it's a mental issue, we all accept statements like that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B5nfkaeplc

I think it's people needing to understand what it is... and rationalise it. I don't even get angry at it anymore :)

[AllieLei]

Hiya!

26 year old ASD self-diagnosed here, committing a little thread necromancy. I would heed this pretty little warning, but I wanted to offer for any people who have or are curious about ASD, a very wholesome podcast that helped me learn about it and feel confident in any kind of self-diagnosis: The Squarepeg Podcast is a wonderful piece of media that is soothing and educational and I encourage anyone to give it a listen.

As for the title question, I ascribe to the neurodiverse line of thinking, that autism describes a spectrum of mental aptitude. I think it shows, in that those who would be diagnosed with it tend to be better at different sorts of things than allistic people on the whole. I am skeptical of that though, given that ASD is very often comorbid with other mental health symptoms. I suppose that would put me on the side of affectation?