DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!

[Phaia]

I realize I am completely lost here. I cannot really build the concept based on what I see. The only race I find that has the shapeshifting ability to the degree that the doppelganger does is the doppelganger and nothing really comes close. Some one said I can alter a template but doesn't that make it home brew then. See where I am confused here. If I say take the void walker suggested above but change it doesn't that make a home brew.

I also see this now more as 'let me take the highest Monster CR I can get and turn it into a character. For that why should I need a background...heck I will just take a Dragon and make it a vampire and then a lich or vampire lord and fit right in....

So I am just gonna say good luck and have fun but this is beyond what I can do with my limited resources [online only] and having never played anything close to this I am left grasping for understanding. I spent four days and about 12 hours going over templates and ideas and still have nothing to show.

Have fun

Phaia

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, when we speak of 'changing' the base creature we mostly change fluff but none the mechanics the class gives. Overall importance is in story of the char itself, so example your background is well written and in that way doppleganger fits for her. However if you want shapeshifting like doppleganger does, there are templates, races and such which can do it (example fey'ri have alter self at-will, succubus can change their form as supernatural ability, there is half-doppleganger template which gives shapeshifting powers which you can add to any base creature).

However as you feel overwhelmed and are lost, then most best source for ideas/advices are your fellow players who can give suggestions what template to use....but before that you need solid idea what you want to play. You got solid idea and we can work/improve on it. Most players who are long term stayers had spend week or even more with concept alone and not write anything up until they set up their minds and then typed up everything which takes lots time itself also.

[Phaia]

Thank you Zaer for the nice words about the background I was working on...it was far from complete--well maybe not all that far. Part of my problem is that I do not have books to use as reference and use the online stuff...this makes it rough to figure out what monsters do what...since there are what now 5 MM to look at?

I also see a power creep in the monsters listed already and when trying to understand how they were built ...in at least half the monsters posted, I do not have a clue on what templates were used or even what classes they are.  Maybe I am being blonde but i did not see anything listed.

Using fluff for templates and monsters are okay but that is just describing them differently...most I look at are well away from the alignment I see 'ME' as being...chaotic neutral for the most part. As an example the fey'ri have a -con and only the alter shape. Honestly I am just considering takeing a big bad dragon adding in vampire and vampire lord and go from there.

I look at some of the monsters already listed and just cringe...my concept is no where as powerful of most of them...so I have to think even bigger and figure out what or how to change the concept... all of that and the hours I have already put into this and the many more hours i can see..just makes me want to leave...I prefer spending my time in roleplaying. I already take hours in building a 1st level character. I cannot even think about how much more I am going to have to devote to this...

I am amazed at the characters already done but there is a skilled rogue there [i think]. Let me give you an example of how lost I am...I have not the foggiest idea what the heck skill tricks are? how to get them? what they do?...never heard of them. Yet it seems every PC monster has them... I am not sure how Level adjustment works...I think it sets the amount of XP you need for the next level and maybe the starting gp for the character...Then there is ECL...effective character level maybe?

It has been well over 12 years the last time I played 3.5 so i am so far out of the loop here that it is a bit depressing.
Heck I am not even sure my character concept can be done...the base idea come from the pathfinder race called a Shabti. I liked the idea behind the race and tried to morph the concept for my character but from what I am reading I did not think it would work well.

Another thing, do we roll for abilities? I have seen different things for the doppelganger...as PC they show +'s to various attributes...as a monster they show it with attributes...so which would be used.

All of this combined is why I think it is best I just step back before I do bad things to the cat!

Phaia

[Kunoichi]

I think that we could probably help you build a character that would fit along with your general character concept and yet be powerful enough to fit in with the rest of the monsters, if you wanted to try, but you're right that it would be a lot of work, and not having access to even pdf copies of most of the books will definitely hamper you quite a bit.

Zaer created the character creation rules in this game as a way for people who already knew the game pretty well to have fun challenging their mastery of the system by coming up with powerful and monstrous characters.  It sounds like character creation isn't really the part of the game that you enjoy, though, and between that and you not having played in a while, leaving you not as familiar with the system as you once were...  Well, I think that your assessment of the situation is about right.  This game isn't a very good fit for you, though I am sad to see you go.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Hey, Phaia -- I've been in the same boat.  I've been considering joining this game for more than a year.

May I recommend this monster?  [a href="http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Lilitu%7Calpha%7CL%7COutsider"]The Lilitu.[/a]

She's not amazingly complicated, is kind of like the Shabti in an around-the-bout sort of way, and she's an HD 14, meaning that you won't have to worry about applying templates until later.

Her stats are:  Str 17, Dex 26, Con 18, Int 19, Wis 20, Cha 30.  So, to develop your stats, you would do a 32 point buy, and then add the following bonuses:  STR +6 (+21 paragon); DEX +16 (+31 paragon); Con +8 (+23 paragon); INT +8 (+23 paragon); WIS +10 (+25 paragon), CHA +20 (+35 paragon).  To figure out the monster's stat bonuses, you just take the monster's stats, lower them all to the closest even number, and then subtract ten from each.  (So, if the monster has a 17 dex, you round it down to 16, and then subtract 10, resulting in a +6 bonus to the ability).

Skill tricks are kind of like feats, but acquired by giving up skill points.  You can check them out here.  They're to give rogues some non-magicky resources on the battlefield.  http://dndtools.pw/feats/categories/skill-trick/

LA and ECL are all complicated.  This group has special rules on them, I guess.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Overall XP does not matter at all (for item creation or spellcasting wise). So long you do not 'spam' it (say cast XP costing spell 100 times in row), you can pretty much ignore XP. I give level up as rewards or specific points in plots.

Also Kunoichi is true that the game char gen is meant for those who are keen on the subject and own lots of books. However, as I mentioned before, if you want guidance/advice/tips, other players can provide you needed info. Now, in 'past life' can be entirely fluff thing (albeit there is expensive template for such thing in DMG II but it's not very good). Only problem with your concept is to steal wishes from people (turning pair of twin girls to pair of wish granting blades is cool story behind your pair of short swords). No template/race or creature in 3.5 edition steals wishes, only close to it is spellthief class (and I merged said class with ninja class and turned it to new class called shinobi). Spellthief can steal later on spell-alike and supernatural abilities and so this way spellthief could steal a wish ability from a glabrezu example.

However, if you turn fluff around so you stole skills, wishes (metaphoric sense; steal other people's dreams/desires), then being chameleon is because of your unique ability how you stole people's skills and became so versatile.

Either case, important is to discuss your idea/concept and see how it works close to your vision :)

[LordRod]

For sheer perversity, I'd love to play a Spawn of Terrasque (assuming that is too difficult) or a Nilbog but I admit I'm having trouble following the whole thread but the idea interests me, especially 3.5...

[towerhouse]

Radiant Idol is more of a 'fallen angel that was stripped of its wings and decided to start up a cult dedicated to worshiping it as a deity' type of monster.  Movanic Deva also gives you more room to work with for template purposes.

Now then, let's see what we can work with in terms of realizing your character concept...

There is an actual half-golem template which I suspect you've already seen, but it doesn't really look like a very good template for anything other than a melee bruiser type, considering all the mental penalties it will hit you with.  Your highest base racial stats as a Movanic Deva are Dexterity and Charisma, so it seems like the template and the base race will be working at cross purposes to one another if you take this choice.

Dragon Magazine #355 has a variant half-fiend template called the Alu-Demon written up on page 10. It's supposed to represent a character who's half-succubus, but it probably wouldn't be hard to reflavor for your needs. It offers good bonuses to Dexterity and Charisma, too, so it complements your base race well. +4 LA.

Pseudonatural Creature would be +2 LA and would give you a tentacular alternate form and a free-action True Strike as a special attack.  That one can be found in Complete Arcane, Manual of the Planes, and a few other sources.

Chameleon Creature from Underdark is +1 LA and would give you a few racial bonuses to stealth skills, a climb speed, and a 10-foot tongue attack, which could lead to some fun roleplaying.

As another option for having had more monstrous bits grafted onto you, one of the printed versions of the Half-Illithid template can be applied to any creature type, granting you tentacles, brain-eating, and a few psionic abilities for LA +5.

As far as acquired templates for this game go, one of the homebrew templates we're using in this game is an outsider version of the Evolved Undead template.  You could even just fill out the rest of your monster progression with levels of Evolved Outsider, if you wanted to.  It would give you a bunch of spell-like abilities and a big boost to your Strength and Charisma scores.

I think that taking the Alu-Demon template would probably be one of the better fits for what you'd like to do, along with maybe using your starting gift on +1 extra level and taking a level of Evolved Outsider for maximum Charisma boost.  It would give you all the mechanical abilities you'd need to reflect a goodly angel who was tainted with evil. ^^

I did some research and everything you suggested looks pretty solid.  I did see Beast of Xvim though, which seems very appropriate as well.

[Kunoichi]

Hmm. No listed level adjustment that I've been able to find, so I believe you'd use the listed +1 CR for it...  You could get both Beast of Xvim and Alu-Demon if you took the +1 level option for your starting gift, and it would certainly give you an excellent starting charisma score and some nice racial abilities. ^^