Pirates vs. Ninjas whos your pick?

Started by Brandon, May 29, 2005, 01:20:06 AM

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Brandon

Ok, a few minutes ago I got into a discussion on whether ninja's or pirates were cooler. Ive seen a few discussions like that before and I like to consider myself well armed for this one. However I wanted to bring this discussion to Elliquiy. We're going to settle this once and for all.

Who is your pick and why?

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My pick is the ninja's. With a smoke bomb they can disappear and reappear anywhere, they get ninja magic, they get some kick ass weapons, they can 1 shot a person with a shuriken, and people are acctually scared to admit theyre part of history because the ninja assasins will come after them.

You also have famous ninjas out there who we know and love. Like Ryu Hyabusa (Nina Gaiden), Shinobi, and especially the Ninja turtles.
Brandon: What makes him tick? - My on's and off's - My open games thread - My Away Thread
Limits: I do not, under any circumstances play out scenes involving M/M, non-con, or toilet play

Bayushi

It is obviously the "Ninja". Ninja was only the commoner's word for the real thing, otherwise known as Shinobi.

The Shinobi were masters of the arts of stealth, disguise, thievery, spying, and assassination. Pirates, as they are known, were nothing more than romanticized thugs and sailors.

Should the two want to have a go at each other, the Shinobi would obviously win. The Pirates wouldn't even know the Shinobi were there, for the most part, before they died.

Just as well, Shinobi also had "day" jobs, usually as bushi.

Lancis

NINJA!

Get to wear the cool black outfits and hardly ever lose any limbs! How often do you see a pegleg ninja? or an eye patched one for that matter... You never know who the ninja is either so Ninja can be infamous.. but its always "The Ninja" and not "The Dread Pirate Roberts" :) never know who is coming for you!

Lancis
I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

Amberghylles

Ok, I have to weigh in on with a few words about pirates.

One, eyepatches and peglegs are cool. 

Two, ninja's never make someone walk the plank, nor do they ever shiver thar timbers!

Three, Shoulder Parrots

Four, Sea chanties.  There are no jaunty ninja tunes played on the hand organ about dead men and rum

Which brings me to point five... RUM. 

And finally, pirates get busty tavern wenches.  Lots of busty tavern wenches. 

Lancis

i have to point out for ninjas

1. they get pert little geisha girls...
2. and SAKE!

Lancis :)
I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

Bayushi


Spookie Monster

Given their total sweetness, wouldn't ninja be more likely to face off against the MPAA and the RIAA?

Spel
Like Elliquiy?
My ONs and OFFs
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Bayushi

Quote from: Spel on May 29, 2005, 04:54:45 AMGiven their total sweetness, wouldn't ninja be more likely to face off against the MPAA and the RIAA?

It would be nice if they did. The MPAA and the RIAA are making life suck for the normal, law-abiding people to do ANYTHING with the lawfully purchased movies and music they own.


.....morons!

Vandren

Well, I suppose given thechoice, I'd have to go with ninja . . . partialyl because there's no "Pirate Burger" out there, but there is http://www.ninjaburger.com/
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Lilac


Pixie

Pirates -- they get puffy shirts. *L*

Hunter

Quote from: lancis on May 29, 2005, 03:59:03 AM
i have to point out for ninjas

1. they get pert little geisha girls...
2. and SAKE!

Sold.  ^_^

Lilac

Quote from: lancis on May 29, 2005, 03:59:03 AM
i have to point out for ninjas

1. they get pert little geisha girls...
2. and SAKE!

Lancis :)

Now, there are stories of some dressing up like geisha...

Ninja crossdressers! ^_^

Lancis

i agree Lilac,
And just as many stories of Geisha Assassins!


:)

Lancis
I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

Zaer Darkwail

I vote ninja because Jubei (ninja scroll) is ninja and he haves NO problems get women intrested on him. But problem is that most want try kill him some reason and along jumping and dodging blades and napping in field he kinda haves no time courtship XD.

kat

Pirates, definately pirates. They're much, much sexier.

*rowr*
Good sex is like good Bridge... If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.

A hard man... is good to find

-Mae West

Silk & Steel

I agree, when was the last time you saw a ninja disrobe a buxom bonny young lassy with a flick of his saber, while saying "Argh matty".

Pirates get all the good birds. Yup, I vote for Pirates (besides who wants to play with a guy that still wears pajamas? huh)


Lyria

Ohhhh,

Pirates Pirates Pirates
[/size]

Swashbuckling, witty remarks, sexy bared chests, and long hair! Masculinity to the tee!!!!!

And think about the sex drive and testosterone. So much of the whole pirate image is the sexual prowess and lust! Ninjas, while cool, are silent assasins. Nothing sexy about Ninja's, not to me anyway.


All you have is your fire
And the place you need to reach
Don't you ever tame your demons
But always keep 'em on a leash.           ons/offs

Rett Butler

I'm sick and ashamed of you people! Bagh! Pirates? They shouldn't even be allowed to be compared to the ninja.

What could a pirate posses that is better than the shroud of ninja debonaire mystery? Not to mention there awesome martial arts, code of honor, all around greatness.

Pirates were greedy, dishonorable, lazy and smelt funny.(Don't ask me how I know that.)

Ninjas on the other hand were uber cool, philisophicaly intelectual, and all around better than any pirate.

Comparing pirates to Ninjas is like comparing an uncultured swine to the upmost of gentlemen.

Yes, you say pirates get all of that wonderful arrrse, but that's not entirely true. The got the cock-eyed, missing tooth, village hoochiemama that would put out for a cow.

It basically all comes down to who would win a fight? Because that's how all of us men solve the most complicated of problems. Ladies and gentlemen I'm not going to even answer the question for you all know the answer. But I will anyhow becuase I can. Before a pirate could even comprehend that a ninja was out to kill him he would already be dead. And the ninja would probably comit hara-kiri becuase he stained his eloquent blade with such filthy and unrefined blood.

Zaer Darkwail

I point out tha tpirates drink alot rum, so high alcohol mixture can actually clean the blade ;). But I think ninja perfomrs hara-kiri for evne doing such bother tough. Plus pirates suffer most pwoerfull major hangovers and when you do that in sea, it is twice more worse!

Vandren

Quote from: Lyria on May 31, 2005, 04:06:06 PM
And think about the sex drive and testosterone. So much of the whole pirate image is the sexual prowess and lust! Ninjas, while cool, are silent assasins. Nothing sexy about Ninja's, not to me anyway.

'Course, ninja are better at sneaking into bedrooms in the middle of the night . . . the surprise element can, I'm told, be quite . . . arousing.  :)

Keep in mind too, that the ninja were more than just "silent assassins," they were also spies.  With a pirate, well, he's a pirate all the time.  A ninja, though, can be anyone and anything.  ;)
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Lilac

Quote from: Rett Butler on May 31, 2005, 08:59:55 PM
I'm sick and ashamed of you people! Bagh! Pirates? They shouldn't even be allowed to be compared to the ninja.

What could a pirate posses that is better than the shroud of ninja debonaire mystery? Not to mention there awesome martial arts, code of honor, all around greatness.

Money.

Honor.  Crossdressing and stabbing someone in the back with a poisoned dagger is not honor.  Knife duels are honor.  You can't run away, you can't avoid the fight, you face your opponent on equal footing.

Historical weight.  To put it bluntly, ninjas, shinobi and whatever you wish to call them did not get murder named after them.  A threat of ninjaing is a joke, hun.

Pirates, on the other hand, got piracy named after them.  They stole money, supplies, and women.  The order depends on the country of origin.

Silk & Steel

Lest we not forget buggering....Pirates are the king of buggering.....Somehow I always thought of ninjas being on the recieving end of that and not the giving ;)

Lilian

I'll take all three in equal order and quantity... everything! XD

kat

Bah, once a pirate always a pirate my foot.

Francis Drake was a pirate in the eyes of the spanish - The english knighted him!

Henry Morgan was a pirate and ended up the governor of Jamaica, rich, and with a knighthood.

Besides, most pirates (and buccaneers) had their own codes of honor, especially those that raided in the West Indies. A majority of european pirates had fierce reputations but rarely mistreated their prisoners. For instance, when a ship surrendered without a fight the people were usually not harmed and most pirates actually refused to steal the posessions of any ladies on board.

Of course the Barbary Pirates and those in Asia had their own rules and were a lot less kind honorable.

But then, I don't find the idea of 'honor' sexy, give me a long haired, powerfully built man who has been at sea for a few weeks... mmm. He can board my ship anytime.  ;)
Good sex is like good Bridge... If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.

A hard man... is good to find

-Mae West

Silk & Steel

Quote from: kat on May 31, 2005, 10:50:39 PM


But then, I don't find the idea of 'honor' sexy, give me a long haired, powerfully built man who has been at sea for a few weeks... mmm. He can board my ship anytime.  ;)

So you wanta take me up on that ;) - seriously if interested in a one-to-one pirate game let me know ;)

Arggh matey...(then I can tell you my one real true life argh matey story- although not many people find it that funny)

Cheers,

Vandren

Quote from: kat on May 31, 2005, 10:50:39 PM
Bah, once a pirate always a pirate my foot.

Over a given length of time, it still holds up.  :)

QuoteFrancis Drake was a pirate in the eyes of the spanish - The english knighted him!

True . . . but Drake wasn't a true pirate.  Officially he was a privateer.  Unofficially, he was the Elizabethan era's version of a special forces soldier, seeing as most of his "piracy" involved attacking Spanish ports and ruining their war making materials.

QuoteHenry Morgan was a pirate and ended up the governor of Jamaica, rich, and with a knighthood.

After he gave up piracy.  He was no longer a pirate when he became governor.  On the other hand, in a classic ninja legend, Morgan would simultaneously be governor and knight by day and a ninja (assassin/spy) by night.  :)

(Honestly, I think both have their strong and weak points and neither is better or worse than the other.  It's effectively comparing apples and oranges, but I'm playing devil's advocate for the ninja, just for fun.  :) )
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

kat

V> I'm just pushing for pirates because of personal preference. Ninja's just don't do it for me. *shrug*

Besides, a lot of pirates had letters of Marque (and were thus technically "privateers"), privateers, buccaneers, etc. are all just types of pirates.

Of course I could talk about this all day, the topic of pirates interests me, which is why I did my Western Civ. term paper on them (and finished up my history minor, yay).

S&S> I don't know if I'm up for a one on one game just now, maybe another time.
Good sex is like good Bridge... If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.

A hard man... is good to find

-Mae West

Vandren

Quote from: kat on May 31, 2005, 11:14:01 PM
Besides, a lot of pirates had letters of Marque (and were thus technically "privateers"), privateers, buccaneers, etc. are all just types of pirates.

Very true.  Which is why I pointed out Drake as an Elizabethan spec ops type rather than a "real" pirate.  To me, at least, a pirate is someone out boarding ships, pillaging, etc. for his/her own gain and that of his/her crew.  Someone doing it for "King and Country" is simply just another soldier, in my eyes.  Like the difference between a freelance mercenary and a U.S. Marine.

QuoteOf course I could talk about this all day, the topic of pirates interests me, which is why I did my Western Civ. term paper on them (and finished up my history minor, yay).

Ah, a fellow history minor!  Focused mine on the medieval & Renaissance periods.  Dovetailed nicely with my graduate work in medieval/Renaissance English literature.  :)
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

kat

My minor focused more on central and eastern euopean development from the renaissance to the late 1800's. I've actually been considering changing my minor into a double major, but that would mean at least another semester and more likely another full year of college. And with only another year to go, I'm not sure I want to prolong it any further - and well, I've got grad school after this too. Yikes! :)
Good sex is like good Bridge... If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.

A hard man... is good to find

-Mae West

Vandren

Quote from: kat on May 31, 2005, 11:28:47 PM
My minor focused more on central and eastern euopean development from the renaissance to the late 1800's. I've actually been considering changing my minor into a double major, but that would mean at least another semester and more likely another full year of college. And with only another year to go, I'm not sure I want to prolong it any further - and well, I've got grad school after this too. Yikes! :)

:)  I know how that is.  Working on my third degree right now (3 more years to go), and I'm already planning my fourth (a second M.A., this time in History).  So, that'd be . . . 5+ more years of school, all told, plus the 7 I've already put in.  :)
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

kat

Well, I've only got 1 year left on my B.S. in Poli. Sci. and and I'll be done my economics minor by christmas. Then its off to work on my Masters in Poli Sci and then try for the PhD. I want to be known as Dr. Kat, heh. I think a bachelors of History would be nice too, if I can find the time for that I will do it since I love the subject (and I found out I have more books on Russian history than my local library system - scary).

But I digress from the pirate/ninja debate.

Uhm...

Pirates rule, Ninjas drool!

because... because pirates have bigger ships and 'cannons' *wink wink*  :D
Good sex is like good Bridge... If you don't have a good partner, you'd better have a good hand.

A hard man... is good to find

-Mae West

Vandren

Quote from: kat on May 31, 2005, 11:40:00 PM
Well, I've only got 1 year left on my B.S. in Poli. Sci. and and I'll be done my economics minor by christmas. Then its off to work on my Masters in Poli Sci and then try for the PhD. I want to be known as Dr. Kat, heh. I think a bachelors of History would be nice too, if I can find the time for that I will do it since I love the subject (and I found out I have more books on Russian history than my local library system - scary).

Ah, you've hit the book issue too . . .   :)  Three more years on my PhD in Lit.  Then I'll be Dr. Van, and finally Prof. Van.  Found out one nearby university would waive their B.A. in History requirement for me if I applied to their M.A. program because I took so much for my minor (two long projects shy of a double major).

QuoteBut I digress from the pirate/ninja debate.

Uhm...

Pirates rule, Ninjas drool!

because... because pirates have bigger ships and 'cannons' *wink wink*  :D

Sure, sure . . . typical pirate, always talk 'bout and thinkin' with their "cannons" . . .  ;)
"Life is growth.  If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Lilian

Pirates may have bigger ships and 'cannons', but the expertise, percision, and downright kinkiness of a ninja can stimulate FAR more than the basic intercourse of a pirate.

At least... this is in assumption. I'd love to find out.. myself..

Celestial Goblin

Ninjas attain their skill by discipline and training under a master that they have to obey.
Pirates don't answer to no man or god.
Pirates for me, improvised weapons, shoddy gear, and attacking in a big bunch.
Ninja's have to act all alone most of the time, pirates have comradery.
Ninja's have to serve, pirates are free.
And when it comes to combat, well, number will always decide, the side that has lesser men will win.
Imagine a lone ninja on a ship full of pirates, of course he wins.
But imagine a single drunk pirate that gets ambushed by a horde of ninjas. Unless he's ugly and evil he'll carve them up with his cutlass. If he doesn't have a weapon, better for him, bring out the chair and broken bottle.

Zakharra

 Pirates. They get the ships, cannon, the freedom to roam and had a government backing them at times. Plus they get the girls, booze, LOTS of loot and had fun.

Ninjas snuck around disquising themselves and generally tried to stay hidden. They did not get girls, booze or loot.

Pirates do it with style and a difient attitude. Ninja just do it and vanish in the night. When a pirate had been there, you know it.

Ninja: sneakiness, remains in the background, generally poor and always attacked if found  out.
Pirates: sexy manly chests and swagger *cough*, open about what they are, lots of loot, booze, a willingness to spend said loot, able to be open about what and who they are, and a governmental backer at times.

TaurusMagi82

Being a martial artist myself, I'm definatly partial to the ninja for several reasons.

1: Ninjas were very knowledgeable in vital points to strike, making them vastly more effective in a fistfight.

2. Ninjas were skilled in the use of more weapons than I can count, including: Ninjato (short sword), spear, manrikigusari (Chain with weights), Kusarigama (chain scythe), Kama (hand scythe), tonfa, shuriken (traditionally used more for distraction than actual killing), Fukimi Bari (needles spit from the mouth), bagh naghs (claws), ashuko and Shuko (Hand and foot spikes for climbing), Kunai (throwing knives), Jo and Bo staves, Bows, Escrima sticks, nunchaku, san setsu kon Nunchaku (three sectioned, but smaller sections than a staff)... and a whole mess I'm sure I'm forgetting.

By contrast, pirates used flintlock pistols that were horribly inaccurate even at point blank range, and prone to backfires, misfires, and all sorts of mayhem. Pirates usually used a flintlock in conjunction with a saber or cutlass (though these were not strictly the only weapons they used). Their skill with a sword was limited to what they could learn from the best swordsman on deck, who essentially figured out how to use a sword himself, whereas Shinobi used techniques handed down for hundreds of years with rigourous accuracy.

3. Ninja were strictly sober when "working"... and pirates were definatly not. This hinders the pirates.

4. Shinobi used carefully laid out plans, and smart deployment of their numbers in large-scale attacks. Pirates used confusion and loud noises to startle their opponents, and shock them into defeat. As Shinobi usually attacked at the time where the least people were awake, they met with far more success on a "raid" than Pirates.

5. Shinobi were also masters of indirect fighting. A well-timed distraction with a swift followup attack works incredibly well. Pirates were far, far more direct, as one can see a boat comming from miles off, and it's hard to "sneak up" on someone at sea.

6. Use of poisons and disease puts Ninja ahead in the biological warfare game. Poisoning a ship's water supply will guarantee the death of the crew in just a few days, as Seawater is not very good for drinking, and ports were far away.

7. With proper training, a Ninja could win a straight fistfight without surprise in a few seconds, using simple techniques to break the knees, elbows, rupture internal organs, break the collarbone or sternum etc. Shinobi also trained in fighting several armed or unarmed opponents at once. Pirates rarely trained in such things. They just tried to overwhelm their opponents.

Overall, the question of who'd win in a fight is more than clear BUT that wasn't necessarily the question. The question was who is cooler, and pirates are still pretty damn cool. I impersonate them on a regular basis, usually while under the influence  ;D I'm partial to feats of skill and training, so I cast my vote for the Ninja, while raising my mug to the Pirates as a worthy runner-up.

Xerial

Pirates get my vote... why? Stayng power. There are simply more pirates than ninjas these days... they adapted with the times. Ninjas are so stuck on tradition that they got swallowed up. Meanwhile, as a sailor myself, I've been told the next forefront of Navy deployment may well be patrolling to combat Indonesian piracy.

You don't see them sending the army after ninjas, now do you?

Lancis

Well of course not... Ninjas have finesse and stealth.. although armies have been sent after them historically :)
I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

Hunter

Actually, ninjas are still around.  If you know where to look, you can still learn to be one.

Lancis

in the depths of the mountains in Asia somewhere, although i have seen ads for Ninjitsu schools here in the states i doubt it is true ninjitsu they teach :)
I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

Humble Scribe

Which kind of begs the question as to what 'true' ninjitsu is. In films and comics it seems to boil down to wearing black, even when it's totally inappropriate, having tabi shoes and carrying around a few shuriken. And dying in droves...

In reality ninja and kunoichi were basically just spies and scouts, and only occasionally assassins. And stealth is stealth and disguise is disguise the world over. Apart from having a few specialised weapons and a knowledge of poisons, there was nothing especially remarkable about ninja. You could argue most spies and terrorists today effectively use the same techniques.
As for the schools today, I think you're essentially right. I have a friend who is a ninjitsu black belt, but he would freely admit that it's basically a made up martial art invented in Japan around the turn of the 20th century, and bears only a vague resemblance to anything medieval Japanese ninja would have done. Overall I'd go for yamabushi every time. They were (and are in some cases) real headcases.

Pirates - at least the ones from the 'golden age' of piracy (1715-25) were just out of work sailors who took to armed robbery. They were also pretty incompetent - mostly drunk, often with little idea of navigation, and they preyed on merchant ships who had much smaller crews, and got them to surrender by developing a reputation for brutality with anyone who didn't. As soon as they came up against naval ships, even much smaller naval ships than the pirate vessels, the effect of decent training and discipline usually became apparent. Pirates always ran away from naval ships if they could - they were crooks, not warriors, and they knew they wouldn't win.

I think both pirates and ninja have reputations that far exceed their actual effectiveness, in combat or otherwise. In both cases I suspect this reputation was deliberately cultivated and promoted (to frighten the opposition). They are the beneficiaries of medieval (or Georgian) 'spin'.
The moving finger writes, and having writ,
Moves on:  nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

Ons and Offs

Lilian

I still like the ninjitsu who were the defenders of thier homes and people, before they began to get that corrupted image. And I like pirates, yarrr, the less clothes the better! Raise my my mizzen mast, maties, yer booty's about to be plundered! XD  Lemme swab your poop deck! XD

I'm horrid, I know... but I'm on such a carribean binge. I've been hitting all oy mf pirates games..

Port Royale, Port Royale 2, Sea Dogs, Pirates! Gold, Pirates! 2, Sea Dogs, Sea Legends... -@.@  I've yet to get Pirates of the Carribean, it uses the Sea Legends engine, but makes some tweaks... really nice graphics tho... does some things right, some things wrong, eh. About to be expected.

I actually heard of this furry pirates RPG where they dont even allow any real non-furries, just lizards. No amphibians, nothing aquatic...  it pledges realism, yet steals history and makes it all cats and dogs and stuff... @.@   I couldnt believe it. x.x;

But.. erm... hmm. I do love pirates and ninjas, even a ninja who left her home after it was destroyed by a cruel lord and became a seagoer, driven to piracy by need and skill, the best of both worlds! Ninjapirates!

Seemingly abandoned ships, slowily floating through the fog have never been more dangerous. -grins-

Lancis

also notes that pirates have dressed like ninjas...

*points at the movie "The Princess bride."*


:D

I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

GoldenChild


Lancis

I do what my rice krispies tell me to!

Art is  not my work, its source online is now down, but it was a Romusz

Garth

#46
I'll throw in my two cents for pirates.

Pirate-talk is waaay cooler then Nijna-talk. (Spet 19 is National Talk Like a Pirate Day http://www.talklikeapirate.com/) There is no National Talk Like a Ninja Day.

Pirates hang out by the sea all the time. I love the ocean. Pirate life is on the beach.

In similar light, Pirates go and visit torpical Islands all the time.  Ninjas don't. I rather be laying naked on a beach on a tropical island then laying naked in the middle of Japan..

Top Ten Pickup for Pirates from http://www.talklikeapirate.com/

10 . Avast, me proud beauty! Wanna know why my Roger is so Jolly?

9. Have ya ever met a man with a real yardarm?

8. Come on up and see me urchins.

7. Yes, that is a hornpipe in my pocket and I am happy to see you.

6. I'd love to drop anchor in your lagoon.

5. Pardon me, but would ya mind if fired me cannon through your porthole?

4. How'd you like to scrape the barnacles off of me rudder?

3. Ya know, darlin’, I’m 97 percent chum free.

2. Well blow me down?

1. Prepare to be boarded.