Dragon Age 2

[NightBlade]

Im not really sure if im allowed to post on the Off Topic place yet. If im not allowed im sorry lol

Well anyways is anyone looking forward to the new Dragon age coming out this March

[Beguile's Mistress]

Hi, NightBlade.

You can post in any thread that's open to you and shows a reply button.

I'm not too well acquainted with Dragon Age.  From what you may have heard is 2 better than the original?  What are the differences?

[NightBlade]

Well the main difference is that its following in the footsteps of Biowares other game Mass Effect in the sense that you lose the ability to chose a race.

You start off as a guy named Hawke who is human. Bioware did this for its Cinematic Benefits

[Moon Hound Hati]

Like with Commander Shepard in Mass Effect, Hawke can be either male or female and will be fully voiced. The conversation system will also resemble that of ME. The battle system is getting an overhaul to have a faster pace and be more action orientated, but on the PC version you can switch to a more strategic and slow style, similar to that of the original game. Graphics will be better too, which is good, since the console versions of the original game looked like crap.

[NightBlade]

Im looking forward to it really. It looks well thought out and ive already pre-Ordered the Special edition lol

[Moon Hound Hati]

Yeah, I really need to find a new part-time job so I can afford all the great games that come out this year...

[NightBlade]

Yah March is gonna be one hell of a month lol

[Wyrd]

What else is coming out in march??

[NightBlade]

Well on March 1st
Mortal Kombat
Rift
The Sims Medieval
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldier

March 8th
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
Dragon Age II
Homefront

March 18th
Shogun 2: Total War
Okamiden

March 22
Crysis 2
F.3.A.R.

March 29
Darkspore
Child of Eden
WWE All Stars

March 31
Bodycount
DC Universe Online
The Witcher 2

[Wyrd]

Oh? O.O

[NightBlade]

im big on games lol

[Hemingway]

After seeing the "Rise to Power" trailer, Dragon Age 2 went from a game I was going to get, but wasn't really excited about, to one I'm really excited about. Dragon Age was ... well, I waited years for that game!

I'm worried about the combat system, but everything else seems brilliant. I don't mind that they're making it one character instead of a custom one. It's just easier to make a personal, coherent story.

Oh, and NightBlade - that list doesn't look up-to-date. Deus Ex, FEAR 3 and the Witcher 2 have all been pushed back, I think.

[NightBlade]

hmmm I could look back up lol. Those are a list from a while ago.

The only thing I fear about the Battle system is that its gonna turn into a Medieval Version of Mass Effects Battle System

[Wyrd]

I'm trying not to get my hopes to high for this. It does look like it;s going to be really good and well made but that's also what I thought about DA:O, and that was a little less then enjoyable. For me at least. All I can see is that I hope this sequel redeems it's self from the first one

[NightBlade]

thats all we can hope for lol

[Wyrd]

Right. I mean, I'd rather have a medieval mass effect then a medieval KoTOR like Origins. :P

[Inkidu]

A few things:

Fight Night Champion is also slated to debut in March. I'm a boxing fan, and it's EA Sport's first M-rated title. Mainly because they don't have to answer to the MLB or the NFL. They got the guy who wrote--crap I forgot! Well it was a major series to do the story. So I'm looking forward to that one.

On Dragon Age. Honestly I liked the first. The combat was hit or miss at times especially on console. So the console/PC branching philosophies idea is great. I like a bit more action in my role playing games. Pause in play is for strategy games.

On Hawke. I know a lot of people are irked about it, but the Bioware guys say that it's not about the Gray Wardens it's about the land Theadas. So if you take it kind of like Oblivion it's not about one person or one group it's about stories.
Also, The story takes place over a period of years. This means your actions have present ramifications. This is also a departure from the Bioware story-writing format which I'm eager to see.

[Hemingway]

I just hope they keep that literary assassin David Gaider away from actual writing. Keep him tied to a chair, let him offer his ideas, but don't let him pick up a pen or keyboard. Dammit.

[NightBlade]

LOL ill get the rope you get the chair?

[Inkidu]

I just hope they keep that literary assassin David Gaider away from actual writing. Keep him tied to a chair, let him offer his ideas, but don't let him pick up a pen or keyboard. Dammit.

Who 'dat?

[Hemingway]

Who 'dat?

He wrote The Stolen Throne, one of the few books so atrociously written I advocate its burning.

No, not really. I'm not for burning books.

But I'm almost tempted to make an exception.

On a brighter note, I finally looked up some gameplay footage on YouTube ... and it does play like Dragon Age. Or, well. I guess it's more action-oriented, but you still have the option to pause and all that. Thank god.

[Jag]

I've never played Dragon Age, but the hubby does. We pre-ordered Dragon Age 2 for him a few months ago. He's really looking forward to it.

[NightBlade]

There keeping it somewhat strategic battle system

[Wyrd]

He wrote The Stolen Throne, one of the few books so atrociously written I advocate its burning.

No, not really. I'm not for burning books.

But I'm almost tempted to make an exception.

On a brighter note, I finally looked up some gameplay footage on YouTube ... and it does play like Dragon Age. Or, well. I guess it's more action-oriented, but you still have the option to pause and all that. Thank god.

He;s also the DA:O head writer (I crime with in it's self). He wrote most of the main characters, and he was a big part of writing the story and dialog to KoTOR, neverwinter nights and Balder's gate 2. And I think we wrote the other DA book as well. lol! Was it really that bad?

[Inkidu]

He wrote The Stolen Throne, one of the few books so atrociously written I advocate its burning.

No, not really. I'm not for burning books.

But I'm almost tempted to make an exception.

On a brighter note, I finally looked up some gameplay footage on YouTube ... and it does play like Dragon Age. Or, well. I guess it's more action-oriented, but you still have the option to pause and all that. Thank god.

Never heard of that book. Is it based on a video game franchise? Because I wish they wouldn't do that. Comic books fine, novels no...

I pre-ordered mine from Game Stop and if you did so before the New Year they upgraded you to the collector's edition for free. So why not.

[Wyrd]

Never heard of that book. Is it based on a video game franchise? Because I wish they wouldn't do that. Comic books fine, novels no...

I pre-ordered mine from Game Stop and if you did so before the New Year they upgraded you to the collector's edition for free. So why not.

I thought that about video game novels too until I read the Mass Effect novels. My god they were good reads. I've just started the third one this week. I don't have any interest in the Dragon Age books though.

[NightBlade]

lol I did not know that I was just joining in with the suspense :D

[Hemingway]

He;s also the DA:O head writer (I crime with in it's self). He wrote most of the main characters, and he was a big part of writing the story and dialog to KoTOR, neverwinter nights and Balder's gate 2. And I think we wrote the other DA book as well. lol! Was it really that bad?

I didn't find the story that bad. I mean, it's one thing to have a lot of ideas, and write something that gets turned into a video game. A book ... a book requires a certain quality of writing. Quality I did not find in that book. It was like it was trying to be A Song of Ice and Fire, in three hundred pages, without research.

Oh, and the Mass Effect novels are pretty good. Drew Karpyshyn can actually write, apparently.

The Stolen Throne is a prequel to DA:O. It tries too hard.

[Wyrd]

Well of coarse Drew can write. He's the main mind behind the Mass Effect universe. But Dragon Age's background and world and story just felt so bland. I did not care about what happened and I was a little distracted by the fact that it felt like "Warcraft of the old Republic." I really do hope that Bioware knows what they are doing with this franchise.

[NightBlade]

We will find out if they do know what there doing when Dragon age 2 comes out. This game either gonna be a big hit or a big disappointment for me

[CmdrRenegade]

I recently took another hiatus on Dragon Age.  The learning curve for the game is rather aggravating and I feel like I may have to start fresh again.  I need to set traps? That stuff costs money! Money I don't have! I think this game should have come bundled with a strategy guide like Earthbound did back in the 16 bit days.  I just hate playing 'guess what the programmers were thinking' when it came to successfully employing tactics as well as keeping my party well supplied and equipped. 

[Inkidu]

Well of coarse Drew can write. He's the main mind behind the Mass Effect universe. But Dragon Age's background and world and story just felt so bland. I did not care about what happened and I was a little distracted by the fact that it felt like "Warcraft of the old Republic." I really do hope that Bioware knows what they are doing with this franchise.

Actually it reminds me a lot of the first Mass Effect.

Seriously. There were times when Mass Effect was one pointless side-quest, one (non-story-planet) Mako ride, and one God-damned long elevator ride from never being completed for me. Honestly, ME 2 has instilled the urge to go play ME 1 again but I know I'm just not going to get through it mechanically. Though the fact that the game's story only consists of a few planets and locations would make the game a breeze to just power through. They even left the ending to ME 1 with sequel potential. It could be the only one in the series if sales had done bad. Not that they would but you can tell Bioware covered base.

You can tell with ME 1 that they kind of took the "let's see what sticks approach". Bioware is good at having solid first games. Not perfect, or jaw dropping all the time, but solid. They then take that and make the sequel exponentially better.

DA 2 is going to have:

More artistic delineation. No more confusing it with Lord of the Rings (which happened when I showed the Ostagar darkspawn attack. cutscene) it's going to branch out on it's own artistic legs more.

Refined combat.

The first non-Bioware-style Bioware story.

I mean that's kind of what they did to ME 2. Fixed game play problems (by making it more shooty) and tightened up the story (and the narrative rewards for completing that story and made it bigger).

[Heaven Sent Blossom]

I recently took another hiatus on Dragon Age.  The learning curve for the game is rather aggravating and I feel like I may have to start fresh again.  I need to set traps? That stuff costs money! Money I don't have! I think this game should have come bundled with a strategy guide like Earthbound did back in the 16 bit days.  I just hate playing 'guess what the programmers were thinking' when it came to successfully employing tactics as well as keeping my party well supplied and equipped.

Really the only learning curve to the combat of Dragon Age is learning that there is literally no encounter that cannot be trivialised by having a mage in your party. Cone of Cold is the most obviously broken thing about their tree, but there are other such delights as Arcane Warrior, mana clash and more broken combinations than I can really be bothered to mention.
The more mages the better at the end of the day, however with judicious application of Cone of Cold you can steamroll pretty much everything without ever branching out from Morrigan (maybe Wynne, if you roll that way.)

I have beef with Dragon Age 2. I'm going to wait and see how it all pans out, but I don't think I will ever be able to get past the decision to name the PC "Hawke". Ugh.
Granted that's the most minor of the concerns I have about the game, but funnily enough it's also the one that bugs me the most.

[Inkidu]

Really the only learning curve to the combat of Dragon Age is learning that there is literally no encounter that cannot be trivialised by having a mage in your party. Cone of Cold is the most obviously broken thing about their tree, but there are other such delights as Arcane Warrior, mana clash and more broken combinations than I can really be bothered to mention.
The more mages the better at the end of the day, however with judicious application of Cone of Cold you can steamroll pretty much everything without ever branching out from Morrigan (maybe Wynne, if you roll that way.)

I have beef with Dragon Age 2. I'm going to wait and see how it all pans out, but I don't think I will ever be able to get past the decision to name the PC "Hawke". Ugh.
Granted that's the most minor of the concerns I have about the game, but funnily enough it's also the one that bugs me the most.

Yeah, Hawke. But look at the criteria it had to fulfill.

It has to work for Male and Female characters. (It's ambiguous enough)
It has to work for warriors. (It does)
Rogues (Best)
Mages (not so hot)

So how many names can you think of that fit all that well? You can only have one name.

[Heaven Sent Blossom]

I would happily sacrifice any and all voice work from the game to never, ever hear my character called "Hawke".

As a side note I will happily take this back if it's a ruse and you're character is actually a giant, shape-shifting hawk.

[Inkidu]

I would happily sacrifice any and all voice work from the game to never, ever hear my character called "Hawke".

As a side note I will happily take this back if it's a ruse and you're character is actually a giant, shape-shifting hawk.

I always thought Shepard was pretty lame. Now that I think back on it there's all sorts of symbolism. He shepherds humanity blah blah blah.

Hawke is not the worst one I can think of, especially not from the DA universe.

[Hemingway]

Hawke seems perfectly appropriate if you ask me. Just my opinion, though, no need to go spreading it around.

[CmdrRenegade]

Shepard is generic because he/she has to be.  Trying to write and voice act for a character that can be almost anything is difficult even at the best of times.  If you take the Elder Scrolls approach, your character, just feels like it's sort of there.  If you give people a specific character, they feel limited.  Revan, the Jedi Exile, Shepard, Hawke or any other are the compromise between these two extremes.  It's either this or to avoid instances of unnatural sounding "BILLY EVERYTEEN" or something like that. 

[Inkidu]

I agree. They give you a balance.

The conversation wheel in DA 2 is also getting a small upgrade. I personally spied a central symbol (which Mass Effect leaves blank in their interface) that displayed a fist. Maybe that lets you know what your reply will intone.

[ambrosial]

I have a ambivalent relationship with Dragon Age 2. I was so, so excited about the first one that I followed its development for years, and I think I got slightly burned out on spoilers, even though I tried to avoid them.

I also have a strange desire to wait longer for DA2, haha. I waited so long for the first one....I feel almost like I should wait that long again for a sequel or something. I haven't had enough time to play DA like I want to either, so I haven't gotten tired of yet it.

All that said, I'm staying intentionally clueless about DA2. All I know is that the protagonist is named Hawke - a name I'm also ambivalent about.

[Inkidu]

DA was good, it was solid, and it set up the sequel. What more can you ask from a new IP?

[Wyrd]

DA was good, it was solid, and it set up the sequel. What more can you ask from a new IP?

I some what disagree. It felt like a step backwards for RPG gaming and me and most of the people that I've talked to said that a sequel was a little un wanted. I do hope that 2 is at leats playable, but for me and most of my RPGing friends, it was unenjoyable and left a bad taste. I know this will not change any ones mind but I just have to get it out their and vent a bit.

[Hemingway]

How was Dragon Age a step back, except in the sense that it tries to emulate old school RPGs, rather than be something modern?

Dragon Age was, for me, lacking in some ways. I felt the overarching story, with the Darkspawn, was weak. I don't know what about it, exactly, but it just didn't work as well as it could have. The Darkspawn are interesting enough, with the theories concerning their origins and such.

I just enjoyed the political parts of the story much more. For me, playing a human noble, I felt like the business with Loghain and Howe was much more interesting than the Darkspawn.

Also, two words: Deep Roads.

I enjoy length in a game. I enjoy it somewhat less when I'm sent on a quest, then as part of that quest, I have to go on a different one that I have to finish in order to be able to finish the first one. It draws things out too much. It's nice when it works, but DA sometimes had too much of that.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Going to the Mages as part of the Redcliffe story ( which was easily my favorite part )? I like that. Being pulled into a different world and having to complete a nightmarish dungeon the size of the tower itself in order to complete the tower? Eh ... not so much.

The Deep Roads were just ... a drag. Easily the worst part of the whole game.

When the game works, though, it works well. I disliked many of the characters at first ( still do some! Sten, Zevran, I'm looking at you two ... ), as they seemed dull ... until it occured to me that, hey, they actually have depth. Alistair may be whiny and annoying, but actually talk and listen, and he becomes more sympathetic. Leliana and Wynne remain my favorite characters. Wynne, in particular, surprised me.

Uh.

I no longer have any clue where this post is going. xD

[Wyrd]

lol!

[Hemingway]

I did succeed in giving myself the urge to play DA:O.

I have a problem, however.

See, I beat the game once. I got close a second time ( I think the Deep Roads stopped me, after finishing Redcliffe, the tower and the forest ), and ... I have a feeling the same thing will probably happen again. If I get that far. Because I have a different problem, too. See, I suck at playing anything but "good" characters. And Dragon Age basically gives you the choice of either playing an asshole, or having Morrigan hate you. And I'd like to have a character romance Morrigan. In other words, I have to play an asshole. Which I don't like! And as if that weren't bad enough, Leliana is so easy to like, I just feel bad playing that way. It's like ... I want to be nice so she'll like me, and ... ack! Confusion!

[CmdrRenegade]

I did succeed in giving myself the urge to play DA:O.

I have a problem, however.

See, I beat the game once. I got close a second time ( I think the Deep Roads stopped me, after finishing Redcliffe, the tower and the forest ), and ... I have a feeling the same thing will probably happen again. If I get that far. Because I have a different problem, too. See, I suck at playing anything but "good" characters. And Dragon Age basically gives you the choice of either playing an asshole, or having Morrigan hate you. And I'd like to have a character romance Morrigan. In other words, I have to play an asshole. Which I don't like! And as if that weren't bad enough, Leliana is so easy to like, I just feel bad playing that way. It's like ... I want to be nice so she'll like me, and ... ack! Confusion!

Morrigan ALWAYS disapproves.  She likes ever increasing power when it comes to magic and dislikes blatantly selfless actions.  Though that's based on what playing I've done.  I have yet to finish the game once to be honest. 

[Hemingway]

Morrigan disapproves of everything I do. I mean, even when being selfless doesn't inconvenience me in the least, she doesn't like it. WHAT.

Leliana may be batshit insane, but at least she's a nice person. I have this feeling like, if I could just make myself do it for long enough to get to know Morrigan and all that, she'd reveal a depth of personality and character that would make it worth it, just to see it. It is sort of a challenge, after all, and completing a challenge tends to be rewarding in and of itself. But then Leliana shows up and fucks it all up! Dammit!

... yeah, I tend to relate to my character, to a very high degree. I basically play my character as though it were me.

[CmdrRenegade]

Morrigan disapproves of everything I do. I mean, even when being selfless doesn't inconvenience me in the least, she doesn't like it. WHAT.

Leliana may be batshit insane, but at least she's a nice person. I have this feeling like, if I could just make myself do it for long enough to get to know Morrigan and all that, she'd reveal a depth of personality and character that would make it worth it, just to see it. It is sort of a challenge, after all, and completing a challenge tends to be rewarding in and of itself. But then Leliana shows up and fucks it all up! Dammit!

... yeah, I tend to relate to my character, to a very high degree. I basically play my character as though it were me.

I think we're both like that.  When I played as in this game or in Mass Effect, I take a 'what would I do' approach? I even based the Human characters I made and Commander Shepard after my own appearance. 

[Hemingway]

I think we're both like that.  When I played as in this game or in Mass Effect, I take a 'what would I do' approach? I even based the Human characters I made and Commander Shepard after my own appearance.

That's my approach. I'm stuck wondering if it says something about how my personality has changed over the past few years, that I originally played a renegade Shepard, and now go almost exclusively for Paragon. Does this mean I've become a more balanced, calm and rational individual, not as prone to punching people to get what I want, but rather using diplomacy? WHO KNOWS?

That said, DA disappointed me in that regard. Mass Effect's dialogue system is amazing, and ... well, basically, seeing my choices worded out completely, it just ... some of them sound so awkward to me. A lot of it just felt poorly written, and I felt like I wasn't given much of a choice at all. It lacked nuance, I guess? The game doesn't track morality, but it might as well have, because the lines were usually very clear-cut, either "good" or "evil" ( normal person or sociopathic asshole ). When your choice of response is either "Sure, I'd be happy to help" or "I have more important things to worry about, you pathetic worm, how dare you ask for my help, I'm going to kill you" .. I'm like .. why? WHY?

[Bentley]

With Morrigan you don't have to play an asshole, you just have to leave her at camp where she can't possibly disapprove. It kind of sucks, but that's what I did so I could romance her and still be a good guy. I also agree that parts of DA:O dragged. I'd like to go and replay so I could make different decisions, but the Deep Roads and the Circle Tower are so long that it's enough to make me choose something else.

As for DA2, I'm happy about Hawke. Sure, in the first game the Warden had an origin and whatnot, but for the most part he/she was a non-expressive statue.

[CmdrRenegade]

I can see that, but the assumption is that people want to bring her along at least a few times. 

[Inkidu]

In a rather ambiguous game like Dragon Age: Origins (Why the flipping first game needed a subtitle I'll never know.) a straight up selfish character in your party is annoying. Morrigan got left at camp and wooed.

That's something they're fixing with DA 2. Now you no longer have to have someone like you oodles to get their nice big massive stat boosts. They say (the developers) that having a party member disapprove of Hawke's actions will also garner some reward. They're working hard to foster that, "How would I play?" game style.

[Serephino]

I get Morrigan to like me by giving her gifts and talking to her.  It's easy if you know how to respond to her.  Getting her mother's grimoire from the tower makes her like you a lot, as does killing her mother.   

[Wyrd]

I just gave her the gifts that the strategy guide told me to and Wham Bam Sex. Easy, easy, easy

[Inkidu]

I just gave her the gists that the strategy guise told me to and Wham Bam Sex. Easy, easy, easy

Isn't it though. I can literally get her in the sack like right after Lothering. Lilianna on the other hand is like a freaking puzzle box of crazy!

[Hemingway]

Isn't it though. I can literally get her in the sack like right after Lothering. Lilianna on the other hand is like a freaking puzzle box of crazy!

She's all adorable until you find out she's a highly trained assassin. But it's okay, that happens to me all the time.

[Inkidu]

She's all adorable until you find out she's a highly trained assassin. But it's okay, that happens to me all the time.

Nothing so plebeian, my friend. She's an agent. She's like the James Bond of the fantasy world. She does a lot more than kill people.

[Hemingway]

Nothing so plebeian, my friend. She's an agent. She's like the James Bond of the fantasy world. She does a lot more than kill people.

Technically, she's a bard. ; D

[Inkidu]

Technically, she's a bard. ; D

And she can sing too!

[Hemingway]

And she can sing too!

Apparently, she came up with the main Dragon Age theme ... thing.

Anyway. Adorable, and dangerous. Sexually .. open. Red hair! Weirdly likeable accent.

What's not to love?

I mean, aside from being batshit insane.

[Wolfy]

Has this not been posted?

Buy Dead Space 2 and get Sir Isaac Clark's armor:

Dead Space 2 - Armor for Dragon Age 2 Trailer (HD 720p)

[Inkidu]

Apparently, she came up with the main Dragon Age theme ... thing.

Anyway. Adorable, and dangerous. Sexually .. open. Red hair! Weirdly likeable accent.

What's not to love?

I mean, aside from being batshit insane.

French equals weird accent? I can't wait to see the Chantry Seeker character for DA 2. It's supposed to be like Templar Internal Affairs.

EDIT: Thanks, Wolfy, thanks a lot. :(

[Hemingway]

French equals weird accent? I can't wait to see the Chantry Seeker character for DA 2. It's supposed to be like Templar Internal Affairs.

It's weird because sometimes she doesn't sound French at all. It's puzzling. I do like her accent, don't get me wrong, but if someone had that accent and there was no indication at all that they were from a place inspired by France, I would not immediately identify it as a French accent.

[Wolfy]

French equals weird accent? I can't wait to see the Chantry Seeker character for DA 2. It's supposed to be like Templar Internal Affairs.

EDIT: Thanks, Wolfy, thanks a lot. :(

...:/ Ya know, you could just hook your 360 up to the internet to download it... You don't need a gold account for that, ya know.

[Inkidu]

...:/ Ya know, you could just hook your 360 up to the internet to download it... You don't need a gold account for that, ya know.

I can't, I don't have a hardline. I don't have wireless I Virizon mobile broadband. I don't think it hooks the Xbox up.
Plus those cards have expiration dates.

[Wolfy]

I can't, I don't have a hardline. I don't have wireless I Virizon mobile broadband. I don't think it hooks the Xbox up.
Plus those cards have expiration dates.

:/ Why don't you buy a router and hook your xbox and computer up to that, then? You know, split the connection?

[Inkidu]

:/ Why don't you buy a router and hook your xbox and computer up to that, then? You know, split the connection?

How would I go about doing that with a broadband modem that creates a wi-fi hotspot? I have no internet out here, none. I have to get it from a cell tower basically.

I have no hard lines or anything. Where would I route it from?

[Wolfy]

How would I go about doing that with a broadband modem that creates a wi-fi hotspot? I have no internet out here, none. I have to get it from a cell tower basically.

I have no hard lines or anything. Where would I route it from?

Well then...I'd say buy the little Wireless thing for the Xbox, but that's way too expensive. >_>

[Inkidu]

Well then...I'd say buy the little Wireless thing for the Xbox, but that's way too expensive. >_>

I doubt it would still work. I really do.

[Wolfy]

Well if you have one of the newer models, they can just hook up wirelessly automatically. o3o

[Samael]

Not sure I like what I've seen of the new game so far.
It's like they tried to "actionize" it, and I don't think that'll go over so well (it won't with me), I also don't care for that they took out the relationships and tried to give your character a preplanned direction. Will have to see how it goes... That aside, I totally dig the pieces of the new soundtrack though.

[Hemingway]

It's like they tried to "actionize" it, and I don't think that'll go over so well (it won't with me)

I was uneasy about that as well, but judging by the gameplay videos, the changes are an improvement. Combat in DA:O felt clunky at times, and what I saw really looked more like ... like fights will be shorter, more frantic so to speak. It's so of hard to describe. But the bottom line is, whatever they did, it didn't look like it was at the expense of planning. In fact, I think planning ahead rather than rushing in will give you more of an edge in this game, than the last one.

I also don't care for that they took out the relationships

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by this. I'm curious, though, so any chance you could elaborate? : )

and tried to give your character a preplanned direction.

I guess this is a fair point. I'm a huge fan of character creation and all that myself, but ... considering how much I like Mass Effect, and how well the same formula worked there ... I'm excited about it. But that is a question of personal taste.

[Inkidu]

Is it preplanned in that you go from point A to point B? Yes.

I actually think it allows a really interesting and large amount of freedom to be honest. Dragon Age isn't about the Gray Wardens, it isn't even about Fereldan. It's about the whole whopping shebang.

So, you get to decide how the tale of Hawke, The Hero Of Kirkwall becomes the hero of Kirkwall. It's a story that's told from the present and sure you go into preset areas and do stuff, but it's the stuff that you do while there that makes the freedom. Seriously, is it any worse than choosing which stand-alone area you go to next when it doesn't matter when you go to them? I always thought that was a bit clunky to be honest.

So yeah, you're a human, yeah you've got a name, but it still allows you a lot of freedom. I would think more than Mass Effect really. Because the actions Hawke makes will be felt for years to come, and the narrative setup makes it where you will feel those choices later in the story instead of some text blurb at the end.

[Apple of Eris]

I can't wait! I don't like most games since I'm not much of a gamer, but I LOVED Dragon Age, and some of the expansion stuff. I hope they didn't go too action-y since the combat was the hardest part for me. I had to keep pausing just to get my bearings. I so miss turn based.... still the story was really good in the first, and I absolutely adored the setting... [Dragon Age RP anyone? ;-) ] so I have high hopes for part the second, and I hope they kept all the party companion chatter and what not, that really made the first game. My only complaint is that I want to be a dalish elf again dangit! :-(

[Inkidu]

Actually being a human is not that irksome to me. I never beat a Dragon Age game unless I was human. Male or female, didn't matter. I just could only play it as a human. Maybe because I don't like elves, and dwarves should remain lovable comic sidekicks. (Ogren anyone?) I have to give credit to the DA staff though, elves were well done and not the perfect pointy-eared bastards that they always seem to be.

Look at the party though:

Alastair: Human.
Lilianna: Human.
Morrigan: Human.
Wynn: Human
Dog: Canine.
Sten: Qunari (sp).
Ogren: Dwarf.
Zevran: Elf.

So my bias may be more engineered than I think. Seriously, no city-elf party member?  Literally half the party is human. So it actually comes out half and half. Even the plot was human-centered. Less than half actually lets not count the dog.

While I'm at it. I might as well say that. They're supposedly (this is from what I've read in Game Informer) making it more action-y in the following ways. i.e. If you're a warrior instead of dumbly running up to your intended buyer of a sword slash he does a little dash. They've taken out the clunk. The attack animations are also getting some more variety.

Possible Spoilers ahead if you've never played Dragon Age:

Also: My least favorite part of Dragon Age has got to be the Sloth Demon part. Oh my God, root canals have got to be more fun than that stupid part. I always do the tower first because of that part. It even beats out the Deep Roads part. (Which only redeems itself because of the horror-like atmosphere as you near the broodmother.

[Apple of Eris]

I agree, I hated that part myself

[Inkidu]

Anyway, I hope they clean up a lot of the journal section. The side-quest and quest thing got way out of hand.

[Wolfy]

I hope they make battles cleaner. Seriously, do you know how much time it takes for blood to wash off of armor? Jeez...Not to mention people's unrealistic reactions to you looking like you just slaughtered your way through a city, covered in blood and gore, only for them to talk to you like normal. :/ You'd think they'd be slightly nervous.

[Inkidu]

I hope they make battles cleaner. Seriously, do you know how much time it takes for blood to wash off of armor? Jeez...Not to mention people's unrealistic reactions to you looking like you just slaughtered your way through a city, covered in blood and gore, only for them to talk to you like normal. :/ You'd think they'd be slightly nervous.

Yeah, the blood thing was neat but they either need to make it work with physics or just remove it. Of course if you play as a range rogue or a mage you never get a fleck of blood on you.

[Wyrd]

I can't wait to dress up like Isaac Clarke.

[Inkidu]

I can't wait to dress up like Isaac Clarke.

I can't wait to play the game. I can't believe they pushed it to March 8th, but at least I hear that L.A. Noir is coming out in February so I'm not in an oasis of boring or stuck nerd-raging against Dead Space 2's Hard Core mode. 

[Wolfy]

Yeah, the blood thing was neat but they either need to make it work with physics or just remove it. Of course if you play as a range rogue or a mage you never get a fleck of blood on you.

Hah hah..Bull Crap!...I was a mage and I had blood on me all the time...only some of it mine! xD....Of course, it was especially ridiculous at the end, cause I was a battle mage (You know, Swords and Armor based on Int/Mag rating, not strength) so I was REALLY bloody. xD

[Inkidu]

Hah hah..Bull Crap!...I was a mage and I had blood on me all the time...only some of it mine! xD....Of course, it was especially ridiculous at the end, cause I was a battle mage (You know, Swords and Armor based on Int/Mag rating, not strength) so I was REALLY bloody. xD

Arcane Warriors don't count. When I say mage I mean as part of the base class of warrior/rogue/mage. I have cast cone of fire and never once gotten myself bloody unless I got knocked out. It's not like a warrior who just looks at an enemy and gets all goopy.

Seriously though, they need to physics that crap. Remember the scene where Duncan kills Jory (Holy crap Jory is an actual name.) Duncan gets blood on his back. How does that happen?

Edit: Oh, my God. I'm watching all the awesome trailers and I can't wait. Thankfully February is the short month.

[Braioch]

Am I the only one who loated Leliana?

She annoyed me, from her voice to all her preachy, insipid little ways. Though her stories were entertaining.
Sten also annoyed me.

Morrigan and Alistair have to be my favorites, though I was quite fond of Wynn as well.

Here's hoping this game is as entertaining the the amusement factor.

[Hemingway]

You're probably not the only one.

Sten didn't annoy me, but the character was just so dull and unnecessary. I can't remember a single time I had him in my party. Oghren, too, I only used in the Deep Roads. Where he displayed his uncanny knack for dying.

In other news, there's apparently a demo coming on the 22nd.

I'm slightly torn about that. On the one hand, it would be great to get to try it out early, even though my initial doubts have now vanished. On the other hand, I have a feeling if I did try it out, the rest of the waiting would be all the more unbearable. Oh, but I read something about being able to unlock a weapon in the demo, that you can use in the full game. I'm not a fan of unique, promo-like items myself ( in Mass Effect, for instance, I never used the Collector Assault Rifle, thinking it would be overpowered or something ... but at the same time, the pieces I'm missing make the game feel ... incomplete ), but ...

Ahhh. My head just exploded. Oh well.

[Inkidu]

I don't think I actually have a least favorite character in Dragon Age. They all had their ups and downs, no wait, actually Morrigan is my least favorite only because she is like the most natural evil character ever created. Even selfish reasons for helping people piss her off. She's the most poorly thought out character where morals are concerned. Especially in the ambiguity that was all over the Dragon Age universe.

[Hemingway]

I don't think I actually have a least favorite character in Dragon Age. They all had their ups and downs, no wait, actually Morrigan is my least favorite only because she is like the most natural evil character ever created. Even selfish reasons for helping people piss her off. She's the most poorly thought out character where morals are concerned. Especially in the ambiguity that was all over the Dragon Age universe.

Something just struck me. Morrigan is an objectivist!

[Wolfy]

I just hope we don't have another brood mother boss....cause that thing was a bitch. >_< I got killed at least 8 times trying to get past that damn thing.

[Hemingway]

Was that the one in the Deep Roads? Or the Awakening boss?

Because the former was a pain, as if the Deep Roads weren't already nightmarish enough.

[Wolfy]

I never played Awakening, so yeah, it was the first one.

[ZK]

From my understanding, Darkspawn are not the main enemies this route, seeing as the majority of the game also takes place in a large city (for ten years). Also the events you do during DA:O happen alongside the game until it hits year 3 (so that means DA:O took a three year campaign? Then again, I think it may be taking DA:OA in account).

Also, your actions from the first game from what the devs say, carry on in their add-ons too.

[Inkidu]

Was that the one in the Deep Roads? Or the Awakening boss?

Because the former was a pain, as if the Deep Roads weren't already nightmarish enough.

The Broodmother is difficult until you realize that the cone of broken coldness works wonders like it does every uber boss. Even a ghost dragon.

I want to see them implement more spell combos. Sure they said that Dragon Age had a unique system of spell combos, but how often did anyone see a shatter? Which by my reckoning was the only one you could do and that was still rare.

Take it out or make them a warrior/rogue/mage kind of team up deal. (i.e. Freeze an enemy and use an arrow or something.) because otherwise its just pointless.

[Wyrd]

So? What did you guys think of the game?

[Hemingway]

Overall a great game, with a pretty good story ( that was, at least for me, overshadowed by the fantastic companion quests/stories ). It's not an old school RPG, so anyone expecting a modern Baldur's Gate is going to be disappointed. I know I was. But it passed. I don't know what else to say, really. Maybe not one of my all-time favorite games, but it gets pretty close.

[consortium11]

Basically a good game in itself but a horrible RPG.

Gameplay is essentially hack and slash... the technical side of things basically only appears on Nightmare and then it's pretty much simply getting your characters out of your own AoE spells as friendly fire is off and micromanaging where your support character are as virtually every battle contains multiple waves of creatures that spawn on top of your weaker characters. Add in that the threat system appears to be either broken or require immense micromanagement and the "tactical" side of it is an exercise in frustration.

Graphics are more than adequate... it won't wow you but neither are there any real howlers in there (and I'm playing without any high-res mods or addons) with the only criticism being poor draw distances... far too often on a flat plane your minimap will show an enemy that doesn't appear on your game screen and leads to a "warp" effect where they suddenly appear and charge and over-stylised attacks; if a mage is doing its normal staff projectile attack is there really any need for them to twist round repeated like they're doing gun-cata? It's cool the first time but already grating by the 5th. Voice overs are generally solid... none really stick out as incredible but likewise none seem terrible either.

Talking of "warp" and waves of enemies one of my major criticisms is that virtually every quest plays out the same way. You're told to go somewhere, you march through, you take on a weak mob, as you defeat them a stronger mob immediately jumps down/abseils/rises from the ground/warps in, defeat them, go to the next room, repeat, repeat again, have a short cutscene with a minor boss, repeat once more etc etc. While the plot does a decent job of separating them out the gameplay itself gets pretty monotonous.

What really doesn't help is that they reuse environments. I'd heard of this issue before I played it and assumed it meant they reused some rooms and possibly you revisited places later in the game. Nope. Almost from the off you'll find that every cave, every warehouse and often every open land area are exactly the same with the only changes being that occasionally a route with be blocked/opened or a door closed off. If you complete all the side quests during the first chapter you'll have visited the same cave about 4 times and the same warehouse about 3... and it doesn't get better later on.

The plots fairly standard heroic fantasy faire but is well presented. The key issue is that it's hard to really get invested in either side of the main conflict (and you do basically have to choose) because each side is presented as being completely unlikeable with perhaps 2 sympathetic characters. There are outrageous plot holes throughout (made worse by the fact Bioware dealt with virtually the exact same plothole incredibly well in earlier games) but unlike say Fallout 3 they didn't completely pull me out of the game. Choices and consequences are limited but there are nice nods here and there to it. The plot does tick over nicely and its an improvement to have a more mundane start than the "Only you can save the world!" of the first game although it is guilty of trying to squeeze too much drama out of certain situations. I was worried after an intro that quickly included two "dramatic" deaths but it thankfully tones itself down. There are a couple of interesting characters, most manage to avoid being offensively bad although the majority are slightly over the top.

The proper boss fights are generally fantastic although there's a slight overuse of the "take set percentage of opponent's life, it disappears, mob appears, beat them, boss reappears, repeat" mechanic. The skills and talents are a little unbalanced, especially between passive and active and at times it can feel unfortunately like an MMORPG with you essentially just waiting to see which of your special abilities buttons has cooled down so you can spam attacks.

Overall it's a solid game. Play it as a pure RPG... or even as an Origins type RPG and you'll be incredibly disappointed, play it as hack and slash action RPG and it's pretty good. You'll get pretty good value from it although the lack of meaningful C+C does somewhat limit that. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who wasn't already interested but if you go in with eyes open and having read some of the criticisms you shouldn't find yourself regretting the choice.

[Wyrd]

What the heck is a "Pure RPG"?

[Wolfy]

What the heck is a "Pure RPG"?

Ultima and Wizardry.

The very first "console" RPG's.

Course, we can go further back, if you like, and Just say Dungeons and Dragons.

Which I mean, come on...when it comes down to it, that's what Dragon Age is. Dungeons and Dragons. :D

Same with Mass Effect...Dungeons and Dragons. IN SPACE.

[Wyrd]

Except its not crap, like  Dungeons and Dragons. :P

[Wolfy]

Except it not crap like  Dungeons and Dragons. :P

.....Oh damn, he went and said it. *prepares the bomb shelter*

[Wyrd]

The video games I meant. lol! I haven't played the board games.

[Wolfy]

The video games I meant. lol! I haven't played the board games.

It doesn't matter now. You've angered the gaming gods. D: Flee!

[consortium11]

What the heck is a "Pure RPG"?

As with any genre term they're slightly vague but I generally use it to refer to the likes of Ultima, Wizardry, the Gold Box games, the Illusion Engine games, Fallout, Realms of Arkania etc. It doesn't necessarily mean games with an emphasis on either combat or dialogue/plot (Planescape and Fallout being games where the emphasis can be taken almost entirely away from combay, ToEE and Icewind Dale being games where the emphasis is almost entirely on combat). They're games which are unashamedly RPG as opposed to tying it with other genres... such as the third person/cover based shooter of Alpha Protocol/Mass Effect or the hack and slash brawler tendancy DA2 sometimes shows. Origins was a "pure RPG"... if not a great one... DA2 clearly isn't.

[Hemingway]

Pure RPG sounds like a really dodgy term. If Planescape and Fallout are "pure RPGs", and Dragon Age 2 is not, then why label Origins as pure? Granted, there's more emphasis on action in DA2, but you can play through Fallout virtually without killing anyone; the same is not true of Origins.

That is all.

[consortium11]

It's a vague term, but then all genre terms are. What makes something a cRPG in the first place? Vast numbers of games include things that were once seen as existing only in RPGs... improvable stats, talent trees, experience, party members with different talents etc etc without people labelling them RPGs. Taken at its most basic isn't pretty much every video game a cRPG... after all they nearly all involve you playing a role even if it is badass space marine number 7. Trying to put a precise definition on it is an exercise in futility but I believe there is a reason to use such terms. Perhaps "traditional" would be better to use... but that's a whole separate can of worms which could be just as problematic.

Origins was in every way an attempt to make a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and other Illusion Engine games (even if it didn't really succeed) which in turn were spiritual successors to the likes of Realms of Arkania which in turn was a successor to some of the early God Box games. It was created as such, presented as such and advertised as such. DA2 can claim no such lineage... in fact the creators have expressly denied it's own connection to Origins in the face of criticism and if anything it owes more to the brand of 3rd person action rpgs such as Mass Effect then it does the likes of BG, Fallout, Planescape, RoA etc etc. If you play it expecting it to follow in their footsteps... or even particularly in the footsteps of Origins, you'll be disappointed.

On a side note you could actually complete Fallout without killing anyone (even indirectly IIRC)... and not just using the "sneak past everyone" approach.

[Inkidu]

What the heck is a "Pure RPG"?

Trick question. There aren't any.

*Waits for the audible shock of outrage to die away*

Ready to listen? Good.

Let us look at the word. Role-playing game. Hence, any game where the player takes on the role of a character. That means most of them. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Halo, Uncharted, Tomb Raider. These are all role-playing games.
This means that games like backgammon, checkers, maybe simulations like the Sims or flight sims, but that's sketchy.

But I can hear you saying: "But, Inkidu. RPG defines what one does in a game not what one controls!"
Lets look at Baulder's Gate or in fact Dungeons and Dragons.

These games' playing mechanics don't rely exclusively on the player character. You could call Baulder's Gate a tactical real-time strategy game (I've never actually played it because I've never been able to get into DnD) it relies on pause-and-play game play.

DnD on the other hand could be seen as a turned-based strategy. Players take turns moving and preforming actions. Both these example rely on what kind of character is created, but they're hardly purely based on role. There are a slew of other elements, but the mechanics are not purely determined by your character, your character is determined by mechanics.

Conversely, Legend of Zelda. You the player, step in to the one-size-fits-all Kokiri boots of Link (or what name you will). You are tasked with reuniting some crap somewhere and along the way killing lots of minions and a giant pig wizard. Now, link grows and develops as a character he gains items and hearts. He thus levels up in a way being able to take more damage and do more things with the items he's plucked from the cold, dead hands of his foes.

So while I'm happy to accept the moniker of RPG as a descriptor for a style of stat-based, grinding, loot-hoarding, genociding rampage across magic land. One must admit that every game has some kind of role-playing element, and that I'm not basing this on pure semantics.

It's like survival horror. The goal of most games is to survive, the horror aspect is just what the larger portion tries to do. 

[Wyrd]

I feel like the only person on the net who hated DA:O. I mean, come on guys! How could anyone want the Knights of the old republic mixed with Warcraft style? It felt like a step backwards in the genre. At first I thought the idea of a sequel to that Two Worlds lever NS was gonna be a waste but taking some of the ideas from the Mass Effect games and adding in WAAY more character progression and emotional development for the main Protagonist made DA2 somewhat special in it own little way in my eye. But I can understand that some people just don't like RPGs that are different then the O'l DnD PC ones.  :P

I also very much agree with everything written in your post, Inkidu. Very good thing to think about. 

[Callie Del Noire]

Dereailing attempt..

Anyone playing the Dragons Age Legends game in Facebook for more goodies? :D

[Inkidu]

I feel like the only person on the net who hated DA:O. I mean, come on guys! How could anyone want the Knights of the old republic mixed with Warcraft style? It felt like a step backwards in the genre. At first I thought the idea of a sequel to that Two Worlds lever NS was gonna be a waste but taking some of the ideas from the Mass Effect games and adding in WAAY more character progression and emotional development for the main Protagonist made DA2 somewhat special in it own little way in my eye. But I can understand that some people just don't like RPGs that are different then the O'l DnD PC ones.  :P

I also very much agree with everything written in your post, Inkidu. Very good thing to think about.

Origins is not as great as people think it is, but I doubt you really hateit. Hate being a word that is entirely overused in the English language. It's flawed no doubt, but a lot of Bioware's first games are unpolished. This further supports my thesis that they should just make Bioware Game 2 and get on with it.

[Wyrd]

It doesn't matter if you polish it or not, in the end we're still holding a piece of crap. :P And don't question what I hate and don't hate.

[Wolfy]

Ahem.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108826-Gay-Gamers-Want-Dragon-Age-2-Writer-Fired



.....Well, how about that?....Ya know, I'd love to get Sabby's opinion on such a matter...or another Gay E'er who played the game...

[consortium11]

Ahem.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108826-Gay-Gamers-Want-Dragon-Age-2-Writer-Fired



.....Well, how about that?....Ya know, I'd love to get Sabby's opinion on such a matter...or another Gay E'er who played the game...

Of all the issues with the writing in DA2 they go after this?

My mind screams troll...

[Wyrd]

Ahem.


http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108826-Gay-Gamers-Want-Dragon-Age-2-Writer-Fired



.....Well, how about that?....Ya know, I'd love to get Sabby's opinion on such a matter...or another Gay E'er who played the game...

Really? Sure Anders was a bit flirty but he didn't bend over and beg for it. :/  I'm going to have to side with consortium for this. Troll. Not the writing part, though... I liked the writing...

[consortium11]

It's hard to discuss the writing without putting up spoilers for those who haven't played yet but suffice to say there's a massive plot hole/logical inconsistency that rears its head almost as soon as the game starts and only gets worse throughout. It's not as bad as say Fallout 3 and didn't pull me out of the game the same way but it's still a pretty big issue that should have been dealt with... especially as it's a problem Bioware have actually worked round before.

[Wyrd]

I wanna say I know... But I have no clue. :/

[Hemingway]

If David Gaider should be fired, it's for being a writer of atrociously poor fiction. I mean, those novels ... *shudder.*

Fortunately, being a good writer isn't a requirement for making good games in the same way it is for writing good books.

As for spoilers. .. use spoiler tags! I'm curious, too!

[consortium11]

Ah... didn't realise we had the new spoiler tags.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

The central conflict of DA2 is Mages vs Templars with the Templars in a position of strength.

IIRC the very first guard you speak to when trying to gain entry to Kirkwall mentions that refugee mages coming into the city are automatically imprisoned in the Mage's Circle/Gallows Prison without exception. Yet you can happily use magic in the next fight scene (standing directly next to a guard) without an eyelid being batted despite the fact that even other NPC's mention it. At this stage you're also a penniless waif so you can't even hand wave and argue that you're too influential to be confronted.

The issue continues: throughout the game there are no penalties for using magic as an apostate despite Templar's being stood right next to you. As being able to use Blood Magic merely requires levelling up you can relatively quickly use Blood Magic (supposedly the worst of the worst) in sight of Templar's again without any of them commenting on it. You can side with the most fanatical Templar's while being an apostate Blood Mage and using it in their presence... which going by the plot and standard Dragon Age lore are pretty much the worst of the worst for the Templars. What makes it even more painful is having to listen to characters constantly warn that if you're a mage you will be discovered and found out... which is used as a tension to drive the plot on... despite the fact that gameplay completely ignores this.

It's no different playing as a non-mage. Your sister can happily use magic until the plot-induced time (if you leave her behind to go to the Deep Roads) when Templar's suddenly come to claim her. Why then and not when she started reigning fireballs down on the pack of thugs attacking a Templar who didn't even think to mention the point is left entirely vague and not even hinted at... it's simply that the meta-plot required her to disappear at that point.

[Wyrd]

Oh, is that all. Okay, good point. I still can't say I personally dislike the game. (Still hate DA:O with passion) But I can see how this is a Mass Effect 2 sized plot hole. I always assumed their was some reason for not being anal fisted by Templars as soon as you used magic but I see thats not the cae

[consortium11]

Oh, I don't dislike DA2 (or Origins). I'm slightly disappointed but I went in with my eyes open to what the game was and have been relatively happy with it since despite the flaws.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

What makes that particular plot hole worse is that in Baldur's Gate 2 Bioware (although it seems basically just the Black Isle guys) actually already dealt with the idea of a central city where you spent large amounts of time and couldn't use magic. The fact that they didn't even tip their hat at a similar system is pretty disappointing and leaves a big hole.

Another criticism that I should have mentioned earlier is one of the bane's of my modern cRPG existence... levelling enemies and equipment. Equipment is most blatant here; within a couple of missions you'll suddenly find your named equipment (so the stuff that's meant to be pretty special) being comprehensively under powered compared to generic equipment... which also means that you get the strange logical position where the named weapon of awesome you picked off the corpse of an early boss character is superseded by a sword carried by a thug you encounter on a street corner later in the game...

[Wyrd]

I never got that. :/ The best weapons I got were either in hidden creates in obscure places or at a vender.  But I went through the whole game dressed like Isaac Clark so I really didn't see to much an issue form my stand point.

[Hemingway]

Another criticism that I should have mentioned earlier is one of the bane's of my modern cRPG existence... levelling enemies and equipment.

I'm playing Baldur's Gate right now, and I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't always feel right, I'll grant you that, but ... better that, than walk into an area you're just not equipped for, wasting your time and forcing you to leave and level up before returning. I hate to think of what DA:O would've been like if, half-way through the Deep Roads, you couldn't progress any further because the enemies were too strong.

[Wyrd]

Please don't speak about the dreaded deep roads. The thought of such terrible gamplay combined with the horrid clunky deep roads give my flash backs almost as bad as that goddamn tower mages and GRIMDARK... The fade sucks. 

[consortium11]

I never got that. :/ The best weapons I got were either in hidden creates in obscure places or at a vender.  But I went through the whole game dressed like Isaac Clark so I really didn't see to much an issue form my stand point.

Put it this way... during one of the quests in Act 1 you get two named staves, one of which is a boss drop. Yet if you complete that quest early enough in the Act then by the time you're approaching the end the generic unnamed staves available either from vendors or from standard mob loot drops are significantly better.

I'm playing Baldur's Gate right now, and I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't always feel right, I'll grant you that, but ... better that, than walk into an area you're just not equipped for, wasting your time and forcing you to leave and level up before returning. I hate to think of what DA:O would've been like if, half-way through the Deep Roads, you couldn't progress any further because the enemies were too strong.

A well designed game generally avoids that. Taking the original Baldur's Gate as an example yes it can be dispiriting if you decided to immediately run to Baldur's Gate itself, surviving monsters that were far too powerful for your then party only to find that the gates are locked... but you're clearly warned of that almost from the start of the game. In contrast the plot directs you south towards the mines going through areas where your party is at an appropriate level (with opportunities for basically grinding if you want to power play) and only then brings you back toward BG itself when the monsters that once easily destroyed you are now beatable. I also find a certain sense of satisfaction of going to an area where I was getting completely dominated and finally beating it.

Put it this way... if you've gone through BG 2 and put the massive effort in to complete the Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyer... only to find that within an hour or two of playtime they were both basically redundant to weapons you picked up from a dead generic thug?

Or in Oblivion (a game I enjoyed despite myself) where because of the way the game levels it 1) makes it better power playing to never level up and 2) Named enemies that were sold as being a threat to the entire world itself are weaker both objectively and relatively to generic soldiers you encounter later on.

[Wolfy]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2978-Dragon-Age-II

:D

[Wyrd]

I love that guy!

[consortium11]

While I wouldn't agree with everything he says (I for one like that the main quest/plot isn't some over dramatic "save the world" type plot from the get go with a clear big bad who's virtually omnipresent) and wouldn't be quite as harsh he's also basically right.

[Wyrd]

Maybe you should go play Boulder's Gate :P. In fact! Lets all got play Boulder's Gate! I only play true RPGs anyway...

[consortium11]

As I've said a couple of times I'm actually enjoying DA2. I'm on a second playthrough now and while there isn't vast amounts of C+C leading to a different experience it's still fun for what it is. Do I see myself replaying it a decade after it's release like I do with the likes of Fallout (1+2), BG (1+2), Arcanum or RoA? Not really but then there aren't that many games regardless of quality that people will replay that much later.

Enjoying a game doesn't mean that I shouldn't notice or point out the flaws... I mean Fallout 2 certainly has enough... and some of my favourite other RPG games are deeply flawed to the extent that it's far too easy to simply give up on them then play them all the way through (Vampire: Bloodlines, KoTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol)... each of which is basically a broken, buggy half finished mess that even the best efforts of modders hasn't been able to completely help.

[Inkidu]

Maybe you should go play Boulder's Gate :P. In fact! Lets all got play Boulder's Gate! I only play true RPGs anyway...

I thought I already explained this to you. -__-;

[Wyrd]

Oh, I was only being a dick. With people over analyzing games I thought I'd spew out my own pile of crap. :P

[Inkidu]

Oh, I was only being a dick. With people over analyzing games I thought I'd spew out my own pile of crap. :P

Urp, guess my sarcasm detector needs retuning. Sorry.

[grdell]

I still haven't really made up my mind as to whether or not to buy this. I really enjoyed DA:O. I downloaded the demo for this, though, and absolutely hated it. I've read the reviews, both the good and the bad, and they talk about it as if it's two different titles. I'd like to play it just to experience the story, but the combat just rubs me wrong. I don't want to be annoyed by that - maybe I'll just play on Easy. Don't mind me - I'm rambling. Should I bother?

[Hemingway]

If you ask me, it's not that bad at all. It's not Origins, but it does so many things better, too. The combat is more fast-paced, but it's not "dumb".

[Wyrd]

It really isn't a bad game. I even find Hawke to be more enjoyable then his Mass Effect counterpart. And it really made up for the crappy mess that DA:O was.

[consortium11]

If you've got the money to spare then I don't think you'd necessarily regret buying it. I quite dislike the combat... it's repetitive (as I've set out a couple of times basically every combat scene starts with a weak mob, you beat them and a stronger mob warps in/drops from the ceiling/rises from the ground surrounding you and far too often right next to your support characters, you beat them and it repeats), pretty non-tactical (even on the higher difficulties it generally descends to micromanagement of your support characters to avoid them getting swarmed or their area of effect spells... of which there are a lot... hitting friendly characters) and there's a lot of it. The whole design principle of "press a button, something awesome happens" also annoys me... combat becomes massively over stylised most apparently with mages... if you simply set them to the attack then they use their staff in a way resembling Gun Kata which gets pretty grating... but despite all that I've enjoyed my two playthroughs.

The plot and writings pretty average overall... it's not quite as cliché filled as the first and doesn't rip off elements from other games as completely... but the quality rises and falls dramatically with some parts being exceptional while others are pretty poor. Some of the skills are poorly balanced, while there's a lot of superficial C+C none of it really changes the game, not being able to fully equip the NPC's annoys me and you'll rarely become emotionally invested... but it's certainly not a bad game and enjoyable for what it is. It's not a sequel to Origins, it's merely set in the same universe and while Origins openly tried to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and the like this game makes no attempts to do so.

[Wyrd]

How people look at Origins so highly and as some "spiritual BG successor" is completely stupid. It's more like a second rate Knights of the old republic clone with a lot of WoW stuff thrown in. 

[consortium11]

KoTOR of course basically being Baldur's Gate in space with a different camera position and using the Star Wars RPG ruleset as opposed to D&D...

[Wyrd]

God, Shuddup! BG is not even as great as you keep putting it. but its not a baaaaaad game, its just not that great. :p Then again, I havn't played the game since it came out so I barely remember the amazing experience. :/  Have you ever truly enjoyed an RPG the was not BG?

And with that goddamn logic, every RPG would be a slightly different version of BG. What a world!!!

[Hemingway]

Yeah, I'm playing through Baldur's Gate ( 2, which is ways better than the original, which I already beat ), and it's not this mind-blowingly amazing game. We've come a long way since then, thankfully. DA2 improves on a lot of the problems Origins suffered from with combat. I think it's wrong to say it's not tactical. It's no less tactical than Origins was, that's for sure. It's more fast-paced ( faster, more damaging attacks, more emphasis on AoE, charging out-of-range enemies ), but that's it.

The animations, I agree, are over-the-top. I would've liked for combat to look more realistic. But if that's enough to ruin your experience, then I don't even know what to say.

As for the plot, I disagree there as well. It's far more interesting than DA:O, and doesn't have the standard Bioware structure. It's not the standard epic of the hero saving the world, but rather something more believable. It's not as straight-forward. There are actual peaks and valleys. I do think they could've given you a better sense of progress, but certainly toward the end it feels like much has changed.

There's also a much greater emphasis on characters, both Hawke and the companions. Firstly, Hawke is an actual character with actual emotions and such. I mean, he's not Shepard, but in some ways he's probably the more realistic character. The companions are what really make the game excellent in my eyes, though. Probably for the first time in any game I've played, the party members felt like genuine characters with their own lives, rather than a mob of people who for some strange reason all decide to follow the same person. Hawke is a strong influence on them, certainly, but their lives don't revolve solely around Hawke. Also, you get to have sex with a dusky skinned pirate with excellent taste in jewelry, so ... yeah, that alone would've been enough.

[Wyrd]

Plus, Hawke had something that Mr. Shepard has never been through... Character Development!! lol!

[Inkidu]

That's kind of not fair. Shepard's character development has more to do with you than the story. I had a straight-up renegade game, but when it came to killing or rewriting the Geth (and undermining what it means to be a sentient being) I still did the "renegade action" but I did it with other intentions. He changed within his role as a renegade.

Oh, and if you have problems with DA 2: "Fixing your mess is not the demand of the Qun, for which you should be grateful." That is all.

[meikle]

I still haven't really made up my mind as to whether or not to buy this. I really enjoyed DA:O. I downloaded the demo for this, though, and absolutely hated it. I've read the reviews, both the good and the bad, and they talk about it as if it's two different titles. I'd like to play it just to experience the story, but the combat just rubs me wrong. I don't want to be annoyed by that - maybe I'll just play on Easy. Don't mind me - I'm rambling. Should I bother?

Why play on easy?

Dragon Age Origins on Normal is a lot harder than Dragon Age 2.  (I played through both on Hard, and Dragon Age 2 is basically a total breeze in comparison, especially with a dedicated healer.)  It doesn't help that both games are totally inconsistent as far as difficulty goes, though.

I also really preferred Dragon Age 2, for what it's worth.  Most of the complaints I've seen were really non-issues, with maybe the constant reuse of areas standing out.

[Hemingway]

Plus, Hawke had something that Mr. Shepard has never been through... Character Development!! lol!

I'd think of it somewhat differently. Shepard is this awesome, larger-than-life, force-of-fricking-nature kind of guy who, no matter what, does not back down. Sort of an ideal person. A hero, basically. There are moments, of course, of doubt and all that. But they really only serve to emphasize the fact Shepard cannot be stopped.

Hawke isn't really like that. Hawke experiences loss and tragedy, but also success and glory. You know, like an actual person. And he reacts the way a person would, to a certain extent. Not always a tough guy. It works out well enough, I guess. I mean, this guy, despite his calm, gentlemanly voice and accent, he's not someone you want to mess with. It doesn't end well for most people. That is sort of scary.

Ahh, I don't know. But that's how it seems to me, anyway.

[Wyrd]

I can see your points you guys. But as much as I love ME, their just weren't many points of progression within the character of Shep. Hawke on the other hand was very interesting to flesh out and guide. 

[consortium11]

God, Shuddup! BG is not even as great as you keep putting it. but its not a baaaaaad game, its just not that great. :p

BG 2's better than the first one but I honestly think BG is a great game... and one that holds up fairly well to this day. Obviously, what makes a game "great" is subjective (see anything I say on Fallout 3, a game that if often regarded as an all-time great game) but outside of the incredibly hardcore RPG fans I don't think you'll find too many people who enjoy RPG's who wouldn't consider it so... especially for the time when the only thing that was even similar was Fallout, a fairly niche product at release.

Then again, I havn't played the game since it came out so I barely remember the amazing experience. :/

It's worth a replay... you should be able to pick up a big bundle (BG 1, ToTSC, DSoTSC, BG 2, ToB) relatively cheap and while the expansions aren't great taking a character all the way through is still a very rewarding experience. Even now that many of the things it basically introduced are RPG game staples and so don't have the impact they once did as I said above, I think it still holds up.

Have you ever truly enjoyed an RPG the was not BG?

I'm not sure quite where this question comes from... of course I've enjoyed RPG's that weren't BG (BG2)... I wouldn't even necessarily put it down as my favourite game. I've posted here pretty extensively about the other RPG games I've enjoyed.

I'm also not quite sure what "truly" enjoyed means. Even in games that I generally dislike or don't think a huge amount of there's been parts I enjoyed... despite it's best attempts to ruin me there were bits in Fallout 3 I found enjoyable. The Fall is an absolute mess but again, I enjoyed parts of it etc etc.

And with that goddamn logic, every RPG would be a slightly different version of BG. What a world!!!

Again I don't quite follow. KoTOR was developed by basically the same team, uses the same game structure and plot design, has the same real time with pause combat using the same system, has basically the same party system, basically the same quest system and otherwise borrows liberally... as we'd all expect it to. The only real differences are using Star Wars RPG as a base system instead of AD&D 2nd ed (although I believe the Star Wars RPG system is in turn based off 3rd Edition AD&D), less tactical combat (debuffing and buffing are far less important for example) and a different camera angle.

Obviously, many RPG's will have similar set ups and systems... but KoTOR (which I enjoy and is a stands up as a good game on its own merits) apes BG in many many ways. That's not necessarily a bad thing... and from Bioware, a team who are often not the most original (and why should they if what they did was good before), it's basically expected... hell, the Mass Effect series (especially the first one) owes a lot of its inspiration and structure to KoTOR...

[Wyrd]

Heh! I knew you liked Fallout. :D I like you Consotium, I really do, thats why I'm gonna drop this and leave it alone.

PS. When I say BG, I mean everything about it. (BG2 etc...) Plus, I've never played DnD or care about how the system works, so I don't really care at all how the game is structured and all that crap. As long as it's fun to play and to look at then Its by me. :P

[consortium11]

Oh, the system point was more to explain why despite having virtually the same game mechanics force powers and spells work differently between the BG/Icewind Dale games and KoTOR.

I've barely played any pen and paper RPGs and much like you couldn't care less about the system behind a game: when it was first announced and releases Temple of Elemental Evil was lauded for being the first cRPG based on AD&D 3.5 (I think). I quite liked it because it probably has the best and most tactical RPG combat I've ever seen... which I guess is a case of having a decent system and decent implementation... but I couldn't care less what system it actually is. Of course being a Troika game (who were basically Obsidian before Obsidian got their reputation) for it to be brilliant at one thing it had to be flawed pretty much everywhere else; so in ToEE you had great combat but a terrible plot, poor structure and tons of bugs, for Arcanum everything was brilliant but the combat... which was frankly horrible and virtually unplayable in real time and for Masquerade you got so many bugs and so much cut content that even Obsidian would blush....

[Inkidu]

I like DA 2. There's a lot to be said for polish, and there's a lot to be said for fight brevity. Let's face it the days where you spend long stretches of minutes fighting a boss are as archaic in gaming as fighting-game boss cheating. If your boss fight lasts more than twenty minutes you've done something wrong. It's annoying to spend forty minutes in a fight only to die at the end and have to restart. The only way you can justify long-ass boss fights is with mid-fight check points.

Bioware explained some things, basically: If you think it's too easy on normal play on hard or nightmare. They said the repeat environs were so they could give more quests, but I kind of disagree. I want different environs. You can leave out some stupid quests to facilitate that.

[grdell]

Why play on easy?

Because I played through the DL demo and absolutely HATED the combat system. I figure on easy, it wouldn't annoy me as much. I don't play games to be annoyed.

Most of the complaints I've seen were really non-issues, with maybe the constant reuse of areas standing out.

I don't consider the combat overhaul a non-issue. If it bothers me that much (and it did), it's enough to wait until the game comes down in price beofre I commit to it.

[meikle]

I'll be honest.  I don't know what 'the combat overhaul' refers to.  You have ... longer cooldowns on heal spells?