The Gauntlet Has Been Thrown: The Future of Superhero Movies

[TheGlyphstone]

I don't see that a plot hole at all, but something rather in character for Thor as he's been portrayed. He's tough, strong, brave, and loyal, but the MCU Thor is not exactly the sharpest cookie in the shed when it comes to mental multitasking. He's not stupid, but he does have a one-track mind, especially when Loki is involved. With the post-battle fatigue of saving New York, and fixated on getting Loki home to be punished/redeemed/whatever, it's not unreasonable in my mind for the scepter to have just slipped Thor's mind entirely. And as soon as he gets home, he's hit with the events of The Dark World, and the poor scepter just got forgotten. The main characters made a mistake that'll bite them in the ass in a gigantic way if it hasn't already, but while it wasn't actually answered in the movie, it's not completely out of nowhere IMO.

[Beorning]

By the way, folks - the teaser to the new Fantastic Four has been released:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-BVs-KCSiA

[Mathim]

Yeah with how events played out in Thor the Dark World I can definitely see Thanos now in a position to get the cube. Heck we already know Hydra is definitely going to get screwed over the second they reveal they have Loki's scepter if the rumors are true of it also containing an Infinity Gem which seem likely.

Truth be told I always considered the fate of the scepter a plot hole. I mean think about it. Thor knew full well Black Widow had the scepter in her possession at the end of the Avengers.  Thor deliberately left the very thing that was responsible for Loki being able to unleash an army of aliens on Earth on the planet after learning they were going to use the Tesseract to make WMDS. Who knows what someone can unleash with a weapon that can brainwash people and shoot plasma blasts.

I really doubt that Thor was aware of the possibility of the scepter containing an Infinity Gem and would not have taken it back to Asgard over the fear of keeping it near the Tesseract. Leaving the Aether in the Collector's possession was rather questionable too since it was clear he collected people along with relics for a living and tried to get the Gem from the Guardians of the Galaxy's possession.

Well I didn't like the idea of the scepter containing a totally unrelated Infiniti Stone to the Tesseract; Selvig said about it, "You can't protect against yourself" when he told Black Widow how to break the shield around the wormhole generator, which suggested that the power cube in the scepter was either the same thing, or merely contained the same energy, as the Tesseract. They're also the same color and have the same little energy bolts fluttering around inside them. I'd rather see all the different gems (which, since the Aether, seem more like mere containers for the energy within) looking distinct from one another, or I'm not buying that this one from the scepter is really its own thing.

[SapphireStar]

I think they mentioned that the scepter was powered the same way as the Hydra weapons from Captain America: First Avenger. That it was made up of Tesseract energy. What will come back to bite them is they fact they gave the Aether (Red Infinity Gem) to the Collector. Wouldn't be surprised if he is working for Thanos. In the chaos of the battle, the other heroes could have forgotten about it, or Hydra agents within S.H.I.E.L.D. swiped it after the battle of New York giving it to Von Strucker.

[Mathim]

I think they mentioned that the scepter was powered the same way as the Hydra weapons from Captain America: First Avenger. That it was made up of Tesseract energy. What will come back to bite them is they fact they gave the Aether (Red Infinity Gem) to the Collector. Wouldn't be surprised if he is working for Thanos. In the chaos of the battle, the other heroes could have forgotten about it, or Hydra agents within S.H.I.E.L.D. swiped it after the battle of New York giving it to Von Strucker.

There's no way the Collector is working in any way for Thanos. That would make zero sense as far as Ronan having to tear Knowhere apart getting that purple gem. My point is though that the never made it perfectly clear that the Tesseract itself was not merely a larger (if only slightly) version of the staff's gem which one would logically conclude that it was the exact same color and design AND was given to Loki by a guy who wanted him to retrieve the original fucking thing in the first place. The Cosmic Cube was not actually the thing itself, just the energy within, at least in the comics, and the Aether makes that point clear. They never really addressed how that thing worked, either. I just assumed that the Asgardians had their Dwarf friends from one of the other 9 realms forge a powerful container for the Aether, otherwise in what way is that floating blood-like stuff a 'gem'?

Speaking of Infiniti Stones and lacking in logic...Why would Thanos gamble away one Infiniti Stone he already had in his possession on the off-chance it would net him the other one he was gunning for? Now he's lost both, and vicariously a third because of his piss-poor strategy. Maybe if he'd get up off his floating throne like in the HISHE movie, he'd be able to find them and not keep losing them. That's another reason I really am not into this 'it's another different stone' thing with the staff.

[Vorian]

There's no way the Collector is working in any way for Thanos. That would make zero sense as far as Ronan having to tear Knowhere apart getting that purple gem.

That and it would be totally out of character for the Collector ... he'd never let anything as valuable and unique as an Infinity Gem out of his hands voluntarily.

[SapphireStar]

What if he was traded something of equal or greater value? He could be persuaded that way. It was just the way he appeared in the clip when presented with the contained Aether that there was more of an ulterior motive brewing.

The emphasis seemed to have been placed on the Tesseract cube itself more then the gem in the scepter at least by the filmmakers. The cube itself might not be important. Like the container used to contain the Aether. It merely houses the  Tesseract energy. Before the Aether was contained within the obelisk. The Tesseract energy itself is important. And, as shown it can be siphoned off into other containers: The Hydra weapons, the gem of the scepter.

[Mathim]

What if he was traded something of equal or greater value? He could be persuaded that way. It was just the way he appeared in the clip when presented with the contained Aether that there was more of an ulterior motive brewing.

The emphasis seemed to have been placed on the Tesseract cube itself more then the gem in the scepter at least by the filmmakers. The cube itself might not be important. Like the container used to contain the Aether. It merely houses the  Tesseract energy. Before the Aether was contained within the obelisk. The Tesseract energy itself is important. And, as shown it can be siphoned off into other containers: The Hydra weapons, the gem of the scepter.

Seeing how the collection of Infiniti Stones is sort of pointless without all of them, I'd say it would be only less likely if the Collector would be asked to give ALL of them to Thanos instead of just one or all but one. So it's still an extremely unlikely scenario.

I know the emphasis was on the stone itself but what I'm saying is, if the stones are supposed to contain the different types of universe-creating energy and they all supposedly have a different color scheme according to how the Gauntlet looks, why are the Tesseract and the one in the scepter identical?

[Beorning]

Hm. I happened to watch Guardians Of The Galaxy today...

What do you guys think of that movie? Personally, I'm not sure if it was that great. For once, I feel that that the characters weren't too true to comics - Drax was virtually unrecognizable, for once, as well Star-Lord and Yondu. Also, the first half of the movie was a bit of mess, with a lot of things happening quite chaotically. On the other hand, the battle for Xandar was quite well-done...

[Mathim]

Hm. I happened to watch Guardians Of The Galaxy today...

What do you guys think of that movie? Personally, I'm not sure if it was that great. For once, I feel that that the characters weren't too true to comics - Drax was virtually unrecognizable, for once, as well Star-Lord and Yondu. Also, the first half of the movie was a bit of mess, with a lot of things happening quite chaotically. On the other hand, the battle for Xandar was quite well-done...

Well let me start by saying that, at least according to Wikipedia, Guardians' main competition for the Oscar for Best Visual Effects is Interstellar which I haven't seen but which will probably win just because the film was trying to be more artsy. Still, wouldn't that be a fucking awesome thing, for a MCU film to win an Academy Award? But about the actual movie and what I thought of it...first, let me contrast what I thought and what you thought. The chaotic stuff, I didn't get. Star-Lord steals mysterious thing, gets chased, escapes. Standard fare. Bad guys send someone more 'reliable' after him. Again, standard fare (if you're into comics and such, you'll be used to this). The battle for the orb and Rocket and Groot trying to capture Quill, absolutely priceless. The lock-up, things get a chance to cool down, no problems there. Prison break time, what does anyone expect, nay, demand, other than chaos? From there, everything's pretty much what you'd want in an MCU film. Okay, now just my standard review:

I was laughing my balls off for most of it and totally dug that soundtrack, especially the one where Star-Lord was dancing around Morag. I never read the Guardians comics and never saw any TV adaptations of them so I was pretty much willing to let Gunn have his way with it and see if he did it WELL rather than as a truly faithful version of the comics since I was pretty much like everyone else, a total newcomer to the whole thing. He made the characters charming and flawed just like the Avengers and it wasn't a bad thing like I originally thought that we weren't getting treated to a 'proper' origin story like the rest of them, since most of the Guardians were more like Black Widow and Hawkeye, not really needing that much since their powers aren't that fantastical, minus Groot of course but since he can't talk, we couldn't reasonably expect him to get his own origin movie.

Could it have been better? Frankly almost every other film in the MCU needed way more improvements than I could have feasibly wanted to see in this one. If I had to gripe about anything I'd say Ronan's character, the Kree in general, and relative Kree strength and so forth would have needed to be expanded on. Like, I would have wanted a scene after Nova Prime called the Kree leader a prick, where the Kree leader is all smug about his refusal to condemn Ronan and he turns around and sees Ronan there, startling him. While the leader tries to play it off like, "Yeah, I signed the treaty, but that just keeps them off our back until you crush them." But then Ronan's like, that's not good enough, you should be true to your ancestors and declare total war, thus Ronan sets upon the leader with murderous intent. That way, if Ronan has to tangle with the leader's guards, we can see whether or not Ronan's strength, which dwarfed that of Drax, is typical for a Kree or if he's an outstanding one. That sure would have helped put things in perspective. Also maybe a flashback of him during some big war where he loses his parents to the Xandarians, thus putting him on his path to fanatical religion, maybe because he'd been taken in by a religious Kree orphanage or something. Just that little bit more that would have helped. I would have liked at least that much for Ivan Vanko's character in Iron Man 2, for that matter, but hey, that movie needed way more improvement than Guardians ever could.

So yeah, it's a given that it could have been better, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and I appreciate that Gunn tried very hard to keep it in the spirit of the MCU continuity. Which is more than can be said for one of the other upcoming releases. From the sound of things, Ant-Man as it was originally scripted would have failed spectacularly to do this, ergo Edgar Wright opted not to let his own take on it be made to fit the overall scheme of things; while I respect that, I wish he would have been more aware of this being a strong possibility from the very start so as not to get everyone's hopes up. Shane Black did this same thing and got away with it, severely fucking the whole Iron Man franchise up the ass with every fatal move he crammed into that travesty of a threequel. Obviously they're taking greater care in not letting this happen again and with any luck Peyton Reed hasn't been handed a project with a no-win formula. Frankly no amount of good story or characters can make up for Ant-Man being limited to shrinking and controlling ants. There HAS to be some Goliath/Giant Man action as well as a team-up with Wasp. I know I said I was going to see it regardless, but if it really gets enough negative reaction, I might just give it a miss. The only other MCU film I didn't see in theaters was Captain America The First Avenger, but that was only because I couldn't afford it at the time.

[Deamonbane]

Huh, Nathan Fillion had a cameo appearance in Guardians of the Galaxy.

[mia h]

I think he did the VO for one of CGI prisoners

[Deamonbane]

It was the blue guy that Rocket and Groot intimidate....

[Mathim]

The one that was gonna cuddle with Star-Lord? LOL. But you'd think that, since Fillion is so tight with both Joss Whedon and James Gunn, he'd have gotten a role a little more substantial, maybe actually physical, right? Hell, he could have played the same role as John C. Reilly or Peter Serafinowicz easily, might have even come cheaper than one of them to save a little money on the budget. But then I guess that frees him up to appear as someone else in a future Marvel pic (not that I'm a big fan of his, this just kind of went against expectations is all; plus Reilly and Serafinowicz were really underused, so I'd rather have seen them replaced so something more substantial later on could be claimed for them.)

[Beorning]

Regarding the "chaotic" thing... well, it's hard to explain, really. But, for me, there was a lot of things happening in the first half of the movie. Star-Lord getting the orb. The tussle on Xandar. The prison break. The visit at the Collector's place and the initial fight against Ronan's forces... I don't know, it was all "too much too fast" for me. I could use some character development or world-building instead. For once, they could take a few minutes to explain the Kree - Xandar conflict. Or Thanos, for that matter - who appeared for two scenes then disappeared from the movie altogether.

The thing with Thanos worries me a little, as it shows one problem with MCU movies: the fact that the producers seems to expect from the viewers to watch every single of them. I feel that Thanos' appearance in Guardians was one with no explanation, no build-up and no resolution. He was a guy who played no actual role in the story - and yet, he was given focus... with no actual introduction. He just showed up, spoke a few sentences and disappeared. Yes, longtime Marvel fans know who he is. Also, people who watched Avengers most probably recognized him as the guy from the epilogue. People who keep in touch with MCU news know that he's going to be a villain in Phase 3. But other viewers? I suspect they just were confused. For them, Thanos could be just a guy who appeared for no reason.

The problem with all MCU movies being mandatory to watch actually appeared before, in Avengers. In that movie, there was no explanation given as to what the Tesseract is, why it's being in SHIELD's hands etc. It was just an object that appeared and immediately became a plot point, as if the audience was expected to know what it was. Well, I *didn't* know what it was and I was confused. And I am a Marvel fan who is accustomed to comic-style MacGuffins (also, it helped that the Tesseract looked like a Cosmic Cube, which I *was* familiar with)...

Don't take it the wrong way: I love the fact that the MCU movies are connected. It's what makes these movies unique. But each movie should also stand on its own. Understanding one movie shouldn't be dependant on having watched another one... MCU could use some improvement in that matter.

[Mathim]

Regarding the "chaotic" thing... well, it's hard to explain, really. But, for me, there was a lot of things happening in the first half of the movie. Star-Lord getting the orb. The tussle on Xandar. The prison break. The visit at the Collector's place and the initial fight against Ronan's forces... I don't know, it was all "too much too fast" for me. I could use some character development or world-building instead. For once, they could take a few minutes to explain the Kree - Xandar conflict. Or Thanos, for that matter - who appeared for two scenes then disappeared from the movie altogether.

The thing with Thanos worries me a little, as it shows one problem with MCU movies: the fact that the producers seems to expect from the viewers to watch every single of them. I feel that Thanos' appearance in Guardians was one with no explanation, no build-up and no resolution. He was a guy who played no actual role in the story - and yet, he was given focus... with no actual introduction. He just showed up, spoke a few sentences and disappeared. Yes, longtime Marvel fans know who he is. Also, people who watched Avengers most probably recognized him as the guy from the epilogue. People who keep in touch with MCU news know that he's going to be a villain in Phase 3. But other viewers? I suspect they just were confused. For them, Thanos could be just a guy who appeared for no reason.

The problem with all MCU movies being mandatory to watch actually appeared before, in Avengers. In that movie, there was no explanation given as to what the Tesseract is, why it's being in SHIELD's hands etc. It was just an object that appeared and immediately became a plot point, as if the audience was expected to know what it was. Well, I *didn't* know what it was and I was confused. And I am a Marvel fan who is accustomed to comic-style MacGuffins (also, it helped that the Tesseract looked like a Cosmic Cube, which I *was* familiar with)...

Don't take it the wrong way: I love the fact that the MCU movies are connected. It's what makes these movies unique. But each movie should also stand on its own. Understanding one movie shouldn't be dependant on having watched another one... MCU could use some improvement in that matter.

Let me be the first to say this and it's not meant to sound rude or condescending: If you're not going to watch all the movies, in order, several times, do not even bother with the MCU. Sorry, but if the above is your feeling, then this is clearly not meant for you and you're going to be very disappointed indeed and wasting your time otherwise. That's just the truth of the matter, like someone showing up 3 weeks late for a physics class. No matter how big the market is for getting new butts in theater seats, they can't spare the time to recap every single little thing. That's what anime does and it's a big part of why I don't watch it anymore, I really only read manga because the flashbacking crap is at a minimum. The minute the end-credits scene of Iron Man showed Nick Fury bringing the Avengers to light, it became homework. If you're not signed on for the class, you needn't bother showing up. Their box office returns clearly are not going to be hurting by losing attendance from anyone not interested in putting forth the effort to keep up with the entire long-winded story, so they're not obligated in any way to accommodate them. This expectation therefore is ludicrous and the devoted fans get to giggle at seeing every little easter egg that goes over everyone else's heads. It's like a reward for being a nerd. And frankly, when it comes to other continuity films like X-Men, some of us fans want desperately to FORGET as much of it as possible (X3, The Wolverine, X-Men Origins) but their elegant solution in DOFP making everything squeaky-clean again enabled us to forgive them. If my guess is correct, whatever transpires in the 3rd and 4th Avengers films (I'm considering Infiniti War to be 2 separate movies instead of one broken up into two; if it weren't separated by two other films between them, I might not) is going to go down a similar road and let the whole shebang start over again. Then anyone who missed out on the full experience can start fresh if they want. If I'm right. And I know you said you're a fan but nothing in that statement makes me believe it.

Could the continuity be a little more continuity-y? Hell yes. It's just a hobby of mine to write little meta-scripts that fix this, add to that, scrap those, etc. A man can dream. I forced my best buddy to see every single one of the movies with me so he could at least have some semblance of an idea of what's going on and he's loving the hell out of them (except Iron Man 3) even though he's only seen them all once, but he's pretty easygoing. I'd say that's probably the minimum effort needed to even attempt to venture into this universe, otherwise...that's just not a good idea.

Much as I'm not sure how the DC cinematic universe is going to turn out, I'd at least venture that it's going to be the same case. If you haven't at least seen Man of Steel, and have no intention of, then don't bother with the rest of the films coming out. Even if you can follow the story, you'll be missing out on a lot of little things that enhance the overall experience. That's how they're intended to be seen, to maximize the experience.

[TheGlyphstone]

Does that really matter, anyways? No one cared what the Maltese Falcon did, the only important bit was that everyone wanted it. It's the original MacGuffin, and the Tesseract was just the MacGuffin of the Avengers movie. It was an extra bonus for fans who had watched the other movies and knew what it could do, but for the average moviegoer who was fresh into the MCU at Avengers itself, all they need to know or care about is that the blue shiny cube is important.

[Mathim]

Does that really matter, anyways? No one cared what the Maltese Falcon did, the only important bit was that everyone wanted it. It's the original MacGuffin, and the Tesseract was just the MacGuffin of the Avengers movie. It was an extra bonus for fans who had watched the other movies and knew what it could do, but for the average moviegoer who was fresh into the MCU at Avengers itself, all they need to know or care about is that the blue shiny cube is important.

Well, they are pretty important, more so as the universe expands, thus the necessity to really follow it closely and carefully from the beginning. But they could stand to increase the rate at which information about them is forthcoming.

[TheGlyphstone]

Sure, but I was trying to ask whether Avengers could stand alone, as well as part of the MCU. I think it can - knowing the whole saga makes the experience exponentially richer, but the actual Avengers movie itself is solid enough that it can be watched and enjoyed without having seen the various solo lines leading up to it.

That obviously doesn't apply to sequels - Avengers 2 won't work nearly as well without having seen Avengers, and Cap 2 makes almost no sense at all if you haven't seen Cap 1. But you don't need to have read Captain America comic books to enjoy the Captain America movie (or Iron Man, or Thor - pick your favorite Avengers team member, it's not really relevant to the specific point at hand), because Marvel knows how to make a good movie that isn't dependent on references only a dedicated fan would know.

[Mathim]

Sure, but I was trying to ask whether Avengers could stand alone, as well as part of the MCU. I think it can - knowing the whole saga makes the experience exponentially richer, but the actual Avengers movie itself is solid enough that it can be watched and enjoyed without having seen the various solo lines leading up to it.

That obviously doesn't apply to sequels - Avengers 2 won't work nearly as well without having seen Avengers, and Cap 2 makes almost no sense at all if you haven't seen Cap 1. But you don't need to have read Captain America comic books to enjoy the Captain America movie (or Iron Man, or Thor - pick your favorite Avengers team member, it's not really relevant to the specific point at hand), because Marvel knows how to make a good movie that isn't dependent on references only a dedicated fan would know.

I see, that makes sense. Although critics are becoming more and more critical of the nature of the series as it gets bigger which as I've explained is just simply not worth the effort if you're not there from the beginning. So the films on their own are regrettably going to be diminished for anyone who hasn't put in their clock-hours. But that negative review stuff from critics isn't going to do shit because the people shelling out the cash, for the most part, know exactly what they're getting into. Even just a 3-to-5 minute recap at the start of each movie would probably help orientate newcomers but for the vast majority, that would just be beyond tacky and a waste of time. I respect that they haven't gone down that route (yet). In fact now that, after Ant-Man (which also doesn't look like it's taking on the normal origin story format as it is) they're ditching the whole entire origin story format, meaning there's even less backstory going in (at least not int he traditional sense) so it really will be up to the faithful readers to just go with it. Good thing I already know a lot about Doctor Strange's and Black Panther's origins or I might be a little disappointed to not get that as part of their movies.

[CaptainNexus616]

Just throwing this out there but I want to see Marvel eventually do a Secret Wars movie

For those who don't know a large list of Marvel's heroes and villians were pulled to an alternate world by cosmic beings to do battle. It was this story line that originally introduced the infamous Spider-Man black suit that would later become Venom.

Sadly unless Marvel regains the right for Spidey and the Fantastic Four this idea will be impossible to do.

[Mathim]

Just throwing this out there but I want to see Marvel eventually do a Secret Wars movie

For those who don't know a large list of Marvel's heroes and villians were pulled to an alternate world by cosmic beings to do battle. It was this story line that originally introduced the infamous Spider-Man black suit that would later become Venom.

Sadly unless Marvel regains the right for Spidey and the Fantastic Four this idea will be impossible to do.

Personally, that was what I was wishing Infiniti War was going to be instead before they announced all of their Phase 3 lineups. How better to let us cool our heels before getting into something that the current roster of heroes just isn't anywhere near ready to deal with than a confrontation with a legion of their worst villains on a hostile unknown alien world? Where the stakes aren't for the sake of others, but for their own survival? Now THAT would be an interesting idea. If they don't do a time-traveling 'reset' like DOFP, this could easily be Phase 4's Avengers movie.

And just because they don't have Spidey or the F4 or even the X-Men doesn't make it impossible. They have a kick-ass enough lineup, as of Phase 3 anyway, for this not to be a problem for them, especially if they draw from their pool of TV series heroes like Daredevil, Power Man, Iron Fist and of course, the others they haven't yet decided on what to do with yet (Blade, Ghost Rider, and the many, many others who didn't yet get the cinematic or TV treatment).

[CaptainNexus616]

You know I can see why they picked Thanos and the Infinity Gems to be the big plan for the end of Phase 3 and not something else like the Secret Wars. Thanos is one of the most powerful villains in all of Marvel. He has the menace and the look to put butts in chairs whether they be comic book fans or just people who want to watch the movies. Plus the whole wiping out half of life in the universe trick he did in the comics with the gems is definitely a memorable feat. However you don't need a really OP villain to tell a good story.

I'm sure a large majority here watched the original Teen Titans show correct? The team consisted of the Boy Wonder, Robin an expert martial artist with a lot of gadgets. Cyborg as his name states a human cyborg with a freaking awesome cannon arm! Beast Boy a teen who can shapeshift into any known animal including dinosaurs and on one occasion an alien animal and wolfman. Starfire an alien who can fly, has super strength and can use energy manipulation. Finally Raven a half demon sorceress who can also fly and cast spells.

Who was the main villain of the show? Slade aka Deathstroke a mercenary who has no powers but was extremely clever and a master manipulator. Heck he on two occasions manipulated two Titans into becoming his apprentice to do his bidding. Took over the city. Even died and came back as a demon, before regaining his humanity! There were a lot of villians who had powers on the show but Slade was the main guy because he could get under the Titan's skin like no one else with just his intellect alone.

If DC is worried about finding someone for the Justice League to do battle with on the big screen they should take a different route and instead of trying to do someone big and powerful. Try to do someone who can mess with the League's head and challenge them in a differnet manner than how hard he or she can hit or do some crazy stuff that needs CG

[Mathim]

You know I can see why they picked Thanos and the Infinity Gems to be the big plan for the end of Phase 3 and not something else like the Secret Wars. Thanos is one of the most powerful villains in all of Marvel. He has the menace and the look to put butts in chairs whether they be comic book fans or just people who want to watch the movies. Plus the whole wiping out half of life in the universe trick he did in the comics with the gems is definitely a memorable feat. However you don't need a really OP villain to tell a good story.

I'm sure a large majority here watched the original Teen Titans show correct? The team consisted of the Boy Wonder, Robin an expert martial artist with a lot of gadgets. Cyborg as his name states a human cyborg with a freaking awesome cannon arm! Beast Boy a teen who can shapeshift into any known animal including dinosaurs and on one occasion an alien animal and wolfman. Starfire an alien who can fly, has super strength and can use energy manipulation. Finally Raven a half demon sorceress who can also fly and cast spells.

Who was the main villain of the show? Slade aka Deathstroke a mercenary who has no powers but was extremely clever and a master manipulator. Heck he on two occasions manipulated two Titans into becoming his apprentice to do his bidding. Took over the city. Even died and came back as a demon, before regaining his humanity! There were a lot of villians who had powers on the show but Slade was the main guy because he could get under the Titan's skin like no one else with just his intellect alone.

If DC is worried about finding someone for the Justice League to do battle with on the big screen they should take a different route and instead of trying to do someone big and powerful. Try to do someone who can mess with the League's head and challenge them in a differnet manner than how hard he or she can hit or do some crazy stuff that needs CG

That's sort of what I'm getting at, though. Thanos is way too strong for someone like Cap, probably even Iron Man. Only Thor, Hulk and Captain Marvel could really be looked to as people with the tanking defense and raw power to put a dent in Thanos' defenses. Maybe Doctor Strange too. But throw the Infiniti Gauntlet into the works and it just goes too wacky. It just feels like, if they're going to have this ultimate confrontation, it shouldn't be this soon.

[mia h]

I don't think it's any big secret that they already chosen Doomsday as one of the main villians for Batman\Superman, and I think that they've already gone with Darkseid for the second Justice League film.