Obama releases fake document to quell the angry masses who are onto him

[Jude]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110427/ts_yblog_theticket/white-house-releases-obama-birth-certificate

Why he thinks us good, decent Americans will buy his PDF document and cast aside our concerns over him turning this country into a communist-socialist-dictatorship is something I can't understand.  You can't buy my complacency with a faked document Mr. President!

(P.S.  The above is me roleplaying a birther.)

[Beguile's Mistress]

Sarcasm?

[Silk]

disclaimer below leads me to beleive it to be a satire

[Beguile's Mistress]

Okay, because it's a stamped, signed and dated certified copy that is as legitimate as the original and because the state retains the original in its possession a certified copy is all you'll ever get to replace the original given to the parent(s) at birth.  I've dealt with certified copies of real estate documents from the same originator and they are accepted as true and legal documents.

[Noelle]

OMG IT'S WHAT EVERY BIRTHER HAS BEEN WAITING FOR FINALLY THE TASTY MORSEL THAT CONFIRMS OUR FEARS ABOUT BARACK BIN LADEN HUSSEIN JIHAD OBAMA--



Oh, right, it turned out to be nothing.

[Remiel]

I'm not buying it.  It's obvious to me that this "Obama"  guy is a genetically-engineered clone, artificially implanted into a surrogate parent.  My guess is that he has been cybernetically enhanced as well.

[Vekseid]

There's apparently a Cyborg Palin comic. Obama's name is, naturally, Robama.

[HockeyGod]

I just read something pretty funny. Evidently Donnie Trump said he would tie the release of his tax statements to the release of Obama's birth certificate. The big rumor is that Trump actually isn't worth that much.

I do have to say that the request of the birth certificate has a very sad, quasi-Fascist feel to it. As though you need to prove your pure-blood American.

For a bit of sarcasm, since this thread has a bit...I didn't need grade transcripts to prove Bush was an idiot.

[Yorubi]

Darn that Obama! Obviously Trump knows what he is talking about. He is a man who is completely successful on his own (given his father basically giving him the chance which most people won't get) and he wants to support everyone in the US and let them live in prosperity (specially himself with his extra tax cuts he can give) and he knows full well the birther's are right (since they give him extra votes). Now excuse me while I get ready to go to the polls. Down with Death Councils (because free health care for all will kill you much more then no healthcare at all will) and taxing us americans (that 95% of us probably would not get with those taxes, nor would be effected at all by those taxes).

@Bush Comment: Honestly Bush is a cool guy, I don't mind him. He just wasn't really for being a president is all. Wait... I thought Cheney was the president? *Insert further puppet bush statements here*

[Beguile's Mistress]

Trump is a businessman and a celebrity.  He also has a very high opinion of himself.  He's been up and down so many times in his financial career it's hard to count. 

His final words today after he took credit for the release of the copy of Obama's birth certificate suggested that now we need to investigate this document to see what's on it, whether it's real and that the information it gives is true.

I'm afraid he's not going to let this go and neither is the media.

[Remiel]

For a bit of sarcasm, since this thread has a bit...I didn't need grade transcripts to prove Bush was an idiot.

Actually, not to nitpick (okay, to nitpick), but Bush's transcripts from Yale  show that he was clearly not an idiot.  His grades weren't exactly stellar, true, ranging in the 70s and 80s; but Gore's were little better, and John Kerry's were about the same.

Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine.  You can say that Bush was an ineffective and incompetent President; you can disagree with his policies or what he stood for.  You can even point to one of his various malapropisms.  But to say he was a "moron" is incorrect.

[Brandon]

I really dont understand why he didnt do this during his campaign when the issue first came out. I mean there have been protesters across the country asking to see it. Why wait over 2 years to correct them? It just doesnt make sense to me but whatever the issue of his place of birth was never an issue for me so it means little except showing his delayed action to American citizen's concerns

[Beguile's Mistress]

The document he produced earlier is the document used in the state of Hawaii for proof of birth.  It should have been sufficient for any reasonable person.

I think what happened is that Trump appeared to be implying that people born in Hawaii weren't legal citizens of the US.

The document the President released today is something Hawaiian law doesn't provide in the normal course of events.  A special court order was needed to obtain it and a lawyer had to travel to Hawaii to received the copy.

Why should the president be forced to provide something no one else does?  Why do people think they have the right to bully someone into doing something just because they think they're so powerful?  It wasn't necessary unless you're an unreasonable person like Trump.

[HockeyGod]

Actually, not to nitpick (okay, to nitpick), but Bush's transcripts from Yale  show that he was clearly not an idiot.  His grades weren't exactly stellar, true, ranging in the 70s and 80s; but Gore's were little better, and John Kerry's were about the same.

Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine.  You can say that Bush was an ineffective and incompetent President; you can disagree with his policies or what he stood for.  You can even point to one of his various malapropisms.  But to say he was a "moron" is incorrect.

1. Note sarcasm.
2. "Moron" can be synonymous with "incompetent." However, I didn't use the term "moron," I said "idiot" defined as a "foolish or stupid person." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
3. Bush was an ineffective and incompetent President. I disagree with his policies and what he stood for.

I really dont understand why he didnt do this during his campaign when the issue first came out. I mean there have been protesters across the country asking to see it. Why wait over 2 years to correct them? It just doesnt make sense to me but whatever the issue of his place of birth was never an issue for me so it means little except showing his delayed action to American citizen's concerns

There is no requirement that a President must produce a birth certificate showing his citizenship. We honor the word of a Senator/Governor/President when they say they are American. Why in this instance? I never saw Bush's, Clinton's, Bush's, Reagan's, Ford's, Carters, Eisenhower's, Lincoln's....birth certificates. Why is there a faction that require President Obama to show his?

[Serephino]

Well, George Washington wasn't born an American citizen.  Neither were John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, and a bunch of others I can't remember the names of anymore.  That would mostly be because they were born well before the Revolutionary War, therefore, they were born as English citizens in English colonies.  But maybe we should get all upset over that too.... 

[Vekseid]

I really dont understand why he didnt do this during his campaign when the issue first came out. I mean there have been protesters across the country asking to see it. Why wait over 2 years to correct them? It just doesnt make sense to me but whatever the issue of his place of birth was never an issue for me so it means little except showing his delayed action to American citizen's concerns

He didn't wait. He released the short form certificate, which was all even he had access to, and is supposed to be legally sufficient for proof of birth. He had to make a special request to get the long form certificate released, against Hawai'i's normal state procedures.

[Noelle]

Can we request Sarah Palin's school transcripts? I want to see Donald Trump's birth certificate. Or how about Ron Paul? Was he even born on this earth?

[Beguile's Mistress]

Can we request Sarah Palin's school transcripts? I want to see Donald Trump's birth certificate. Or how about Ron Paul? Was he even born on this earth?

I'd like to see Donald Trump's tax returns.  That's a requirement anyway.  Imagine the feeding frenzy when those documents are released.

[Oniya]

There is no requirement that a President must produce a birth certificate showing his citizenship. We honor the word of a Senator/Governor/President when they say they are American. Why in this instance? I never saw Bush's, Clinton's, Bush's, Reagan's, Ford's, Carters, Eisenhower's, Lincoln's....birth certificates. Why is there a faction that require President Obama to show his?

Because they voted for somebody else, and they think his name and skin color are enough to make their position sound reasonable.  Personally, I think they need to put their big boy and girl pants on and deal with the rest of his term, the same way that those of us who voted against any other sitting president did.

[Beguile's Mistress]

Because they voted for somebody else, and they think his name and skin color are enough to make their position sound reasonable.  Personally, I think they need to put their big boy and girl pants on and deal with the rest of his term, the same way that those of us who voted against any other sitting president did.

+1

[TheGlyphstone]

Does anyone know where I can find a copy of this Cyborg Palin and Robama comic? That sounds hilarious.

[Zakharra]

Well, George Washington wasn't born an American citizen.  Neither were John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, and a bunch of others I can't remember the names of anymore.  That would mostly be because they were born well before the Revolutionary War, therefore, they were born as English citizens in English colonies.  But maybe we should get all upset over that too.... 

The Founding Fathers got a pass on that because they were born in the Colonies. Anyone after that generation died, had to meet the requirement of being a natural born citizen.

[Belle33]

This entire matter is idiotic.  Trump is a blow hard and a jackass.  Why we pay such attention to him is beyond my understanding.  And to now hear him demanding to understand how Obama got into Columbia and Harvard is insanity.  If he has questions about the admissions practices of these institutions, shouldn't he ask them - not the students.  Are we now supposed to blame Obama for having dared to apply? 

[Sabby]

I'm not buying it.  It's obvious to me that this "Obama"  guy is a genetically-engineered clone, artificially implanted into a surrogate parent.  My guess is that he has been cybernetically enhanced as well.

Thanks for the new background

[itsbeenfun2000]

Cobert and Stewert had a field day with this tonight in their shows

[Brandon]

He didn't wait. He released the short form certificate, which was all even he had access to, and is supposed to be legally sufficient for proof of birth. He had to make a special request to get the long form certificate released, against Hawai'i's normal state procedures.

I stand corrected then. When the issue came up during his campaign I heard many people shouting for the birth certificate. I never heard of a birth certificate of any kind showing up

To those who would say something like why not ask for so and so's birth certificate as well? I have this to say: If there is any doubt whether a person has the legal right to run for office then we should all be calling for it. I dont care if its Obama, Trump, Palin. They should all be held to the same standard, let them release their information that proves they have the legal right to run for office and move on to the next issue.

[Trieste]

Unfortunately, the 'next issue' is even more ludicrous than the last one. Despite the fact that he released his birth certificate years ago, several individual states have continued to try to pass legislation requiring extensive documentation of citizenship and more (I think Louisiana wants you to prove your birth as well as your residency for 14 years; there's nothing in the Constitution about residency damnit). The legislation got so far in Arizona that the governor had to veto it. If you'll recall, Jan Brewer is not known for her temperance when it comes to legislation, considering the immigration legislation she's signed, supported, and defended. When even she says 'It's too much', you've got a problem.

And then he releases the full birth certificate and instead of taking a step back and gracefully issuing mea culpas, Trump and his lackeys are now demanding school grades.

Really? Really? There were several of us that wondered how a gem like Dubya was able to graduate from Harvard, but to my knowledge nobody demanded his grades. Why? Because they're fucking private. So, for that matter, was his birth certificate. Obama has had everything, everything brought into question: his experience as a senator, his citizenship, now his academics. Only the first of the three has anything to do with the Presidency, especially after he released the certificate of live birth. It's a witch hunt, and it's another sign of how absolutely ridiculous our government has gotten. We have a sky-high unemployment rate, and all they can think about is a fucking report card?!  >:( >:( >:( >:(

[gaggedLouise]

This entire matter is idiotic.  Trump is a blow hard and a jackass.  Why we pay such attention to him is beyond my understanding

"Trumpie, come on, now I want you to blow!"  :D

I remember hearing about these claims a few weeks after Obama had won the election - from a U.S. exchange student - and I was thinking: "It's a joke, nobody can be that dumb!" But after finding the ObamaCrimes web site I realized some people really were pushing this so-called question. Gah...

Unfortunately, the 'next issue' is even more ludicrous than the last one. Despite the fact that he released his birth certificate years ago, several individual states have continued to try to pass legislation requiring extensive documentation of citizenship and more (I think Louisiana wants you to prove your birth as well as your residency for 14 years; there's nothing in the Constitution about residency damnit). The legislation got so far in Arizona that the governor had to veto it.

Down the line, you guys are going to need a nationwide, publicly issued ID card. Even if this goes against the grain of the American idea that "the state isn't to meddle with our personal lives" it's getting more and more inescapable it seems, to avoid more conflicts about which U.S. state or city recognizes what persons as legally themselves.

[Serephino]

The Founding Fathers got a pass on that because they were born in the Colonies. Anyone after that generation died, had to meet the requirement of being a natural born citizen.

Yes, but they're saying that Obama wasn't really born an American, therefore, is an evil terrorist plotting against us all.  I just wonder if those people know the first like 11 Presidents were born British.  Most of them were Founding Fathers, and were born before the US existed, but they weren't REAL Americans! Damned British bastards still trying to rule over us.... (I'm being a little sarcastic if you can't tell)  My point being if you use the very same arguments against past Presidents we know weren't born Americans, it sounds really stupid, doesn't it?

[Oniya]

Unfortunately, the 'next issue' is even more ludicrous than the last one. Despite the fact that he released his birth certificate years ago, several individual states have continued to try to pass legislation requiring extensive documentation of citizenship and more (I think Louisiana wants you to prove your birth as well as your residency for 14 years; there's nothing in the Constitution about residency damnit).

Um - actually:  Article 2, Clause 5.

The report card thing is completely uncalled for, though.  Education has never been a requirement.

It might be worth mentioning that one of the arguments being used against Obama was used against Chester A. Arthur:  The bit that his father owed allegiance to another power (British via the then-colony of Kenya in Obama's case, Ireland in Arthur's).  According to British Nationality Law, that may have made him technically a British citizen.  (It all looks very convoluted to me, especially with Kenya's colonial status back in 1961, and I still consider it a non-issue.)

[Zakharra]

(I'm being a little sarcastic if you can't tell)  My point being if you use the very same arguments against past Presidents we know weren't born Americans, it sounds really stupid, doesn't it?

I understand the sarcasm. :)  However the past Presidents were born Americans, in that they were born in the Colonies.  If you applied the standard that only someone born after the founding of the US was eligible to be President back then, it would have been about 1810 before anyone was old enough to run for the office. The Founders get a 'slide' on that  since it was the founding of the country. Since then it's been adhered to quite well.

[gaggedLouise]

Just pointing out that John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which was not a U.S. state at the time and never would be part of the United States proper - it was an overseas territory. The fact was pointed out during the campaign but it was never nearly as discussed as Obama's supposed African birth, and the Supreme Court (or one of its judges) indicated that the McCain matter, if he were elected, would most likely be seen as a nullitude.

I haven't heard of anyone questioning that Arnie was qualified to run for the office of Governor of California either, on the grounds of his being born in Austria - actually in the British-occupied zone of Austria, as the country didn't regain full independence again until 1955, when Arnold was seven. No one has suggested that this origin would make him suspect or disloyal in such a high office.

[Oniya]

Governors can be naturalized (as opposed to natural born).  There have actually been several suggestions to amend the rules of Presidential eligibility to allow people like Arnold and Kissinger (born in Germany) to be president if they chose to run.  All have failed so far.

[gaggedLouise]

Governors can be naturalized (as opposed to natural born).  There have actually been several suggestions to amend the rules of Presidential eligibility to allow people like Arnold and Kissinger (born in Germany) to be president if they chose to run.  All have failed so far.

Yes, but my point was that the argument about Obama's supposedly hazy birth isn't merely legal: the thrust of it is a *moralizing* argument that he is no true American - and of course, really a Muslim. Even though the point about his "African birth" (which by now should have found itself solidly debunked) is put up front, I think Serephino (who made a similar contrast argument about the first generation of U.S. presidents) is right that the real hotspot under this is the view that Obama isn't a genuine American, because he's black, because he's alien, because he's seen as anti-WASP etc.

[Oniya]

*nods*  I made a similar post on this as well.  https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=105107.msg4565077#msg4565077

The bit about McCain is a much better parallel, since McCain was an actual Presidential candidate.  To my knowledge, the closest Arnie's come to going after the presidency is having dinner with the in-laws.

[TheGlyphstone]

*nods*  I made a similar post on this as well.  https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=105107.msg4565077#msg4565077

The bit about McCain is a much better parallel, since McCain was an actual Presidential candidate.  To my knowledge, the closest Arnie's come to going after the presidency is having dinner with the in-laws.

Arnie doesn't need the presidency anyways, he's got a superhero cartoon to work on. ;D

[itsbeenfun2000]

I can't believe that Trump is calling for his grades. I don't hear him or his likes calling for Scott Walker's

I also believe that FDR flunked out of law school. Columbia if I am not mistaken.

[Revolverman]

I can't believe that Trump is calling for his grades. I don't hear him or his likes calling for Scott Walker's

I also believe that FDR flunked out of law school. Columbia if I am not mistaken.

How many times has Trump bankrupted something? I've never understood why people think hes some kinda financial or business god.

[Brandon]

Trump is the rich man icon of our day and has been a few times over the years. Thing is hes fallen into obscurity more then a few times and after the first time he made his mention that he might run for president and Im pretty sure hes said the same thing every year since

Personally I think his involvment in all of this is purely a public relations move to pull him back out of obscurity. I dont believe for a minute that hes actually going to run for president nor do I believe for a minute that he would make a good one

Also to touch on the point for calling Obama's grades. Well he can but Obama is under no legal obligation to provide that information as it has nothing to do with his legal authority to hold office (unlike his birth certificate). Were I Obama I would meet with these people, toss them a copy of the constitution and demand they show me where it says my grades in any school has anything to do with my ability to hold political office.

[Noelle]

It's not what these people actually believe that matters, really...It's what they make the voting public believe. A lot of conservatives are especially disdainful of what they perceive to the 'educated elitists', so it makes sense that they would go after his college grades even though it is essentially hypocritical of them to both elevate and dismiss a college education at once.

Honestly, the guy was a law professor. They're making his whole life out to be one giant conspiracy -- if his grades were released, they'd ask for his teaching evaluations. If those were released, they'd dig up some scandal about some promising kid he flunked, and so forth.

[RubySlippers]

I'm looking forward to a Trump/Palin ticket in 2012, really who else could Obama beat?

Seriously we had a local man who questioned the document was typed and said they didn't do that in 1961, my grandfathers from the 30's was typed out as was one I saw from the late 19th century. It was the norm at hospitals.

[Will]

Well yeah, surely they would write the whole thing out longhand.  Doctors are known for their superior penmanship, after all.


Right?

[consortium11]

People are already calling the birth certificate a fake... apparently it's an obvious photo-shop with a dozen or so mistakes and inconsistencies. If nothing else it shows Obama's incompetence in leading the US; he's had so long to put together this blatant forgery and he can't even get that right...

[HairyHeretic]

I wonder if any evidence will be enough to convince them?

I'm inclined to think not, since their minds appear already made up.

[Remiel]

There will always be nutjobs and conspiracy theorists (7% of Americans apparently believe Elvis Presley is still alive, and 26% of us still believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy.)

Even Republicans realize that this is a non-issue.

"Yesterday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney called this issue a sideshow," said a spokesman or House Majority Leader Eric Cantor on Wednesday. "We fully agree. The White House shouldn't engage political sideshows, particularly at a time when the challenges facing our country are so immense. Despite the excitement caused by the media circus this morning, House Republicans remain squarely focused on the things that truly matter to families and business owners throughout our country."

"This has long been a settled issue," added a spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner, in a statement. "The Speaker's focus is on cutting spending, lowering gas prices, and creating American jobs."

[consortium11]

My favourite quote on this comes, somewhat surprisingly, from Rand Paul.

“I’ve come to New Hampshire today because I’m very concerned,” Paul said. “I want to see the original long-form certificate, with embossed seal, of Donald Trump’s Republican registration.”

“Seriously don’t you think we need to see that?” he said, adding that Trump had donated to Democrats such as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Source here.

[Belle33]

My favourite quote on this comes, somewhat surprisingly, from Rand Paul.

Source here.

That is the funniest thing I've seen all week! 

[gaggedLouise]

My favourite quote on this comes, somewhat surprisingly, from Rand Paul.

Source here.

LMAO!

[MasterMischief]

Poisoning the well followed by moving the goalposts?

[Shjade]

Poisoning the well followed by moving the goalposts?

Pretty much. Add to that whatever official debate term describes having half of a party make a big fuss to force attention on an issue while the other half of the same party waits for that attention to come, then points out that while the responder might have time to play around with this nonsense, they are sticking to the important issues.

Seriously, the bit Remiel quoted a few posts back looks less to me like Republicans saying, "This is getting ridiculous, everyone should settle down and focus on the important things," and more, "Look at the President wasting his time with nonsense when he should be thinking about important things like WE are!"

He can't win.

I despise politics on the whole and refuse to get involved with it because of bullshit like this, but I have to admit, if nothing else, the Republicans are fucking brilliant when it comes to this kind of smearing. They really know their audience.

[Belle33]

Obama was hilarious on the birther issue at the White House Correspondence dinner.

Obama trumps Trump, again.

[gaggedLouise]

Poisoning the well followed by moving the goalposts?

Yes - and thanks for providing me with that expression: moving the goalposts. It's something one notices in public debate as well as in workplace promises and deals. I've long been aware of how useful (and deceptive)  it is as a means of keeping the upper hand and giving the appearance that the issue is still around and very urgent, and/or that someone has failed in what they were supposed to do, but I never had a shorthand word for it.

The nutjobs, of course, are unfazed by Obama's release of the birth document. At ObamaCrimes.com they're already putting up doctored birth records stating that Barack Obama was born in Africa, and delivered at an "unknown location in Kenya".

[Jude]

This is just classic cognitive dissonance at play.  When people hold beliefs strongly, those beliefs become part of their identity, to the extent that an attack on those beliefs becomes an attack on them.  The presentation of facts that contrast with that identity generates internal discomfort that must be resolved, either by painful reevaluation of their identity or rejection of fact that is causing them dissonance to begin with -- so it's no surprise that people's preconceived notions easily survive these tests of fact.  It really is incredible what feats of mental gymnastics that believers will go through to preserve their ideas, but they do it out of mental necessity, and necessity is the mother of invention.

[gaggedLouise]

Obviously no halt to the questions engine. Those guys will hold it for a fact that Obama was born in Kenya or is otherwise still uneligible to the presidency till hell freezes over.

[ReijiTabibito]

You know, I find all this extremely ironic (though that may not be the correct term) in the fact that this whole issue over Obama's birth cert (and now his grades), long considered to be a Republican/conservative attack on his legitimacy as president, got started by his SecState, Hillary Clinton.

Yes, you read that right.  Hillary.  Clinton.

[Callie Del Noire]

You know, I find all this extremely ironic (though that may not be the correct term) in the fact that this whole issue over Obama's birth cert (and now his grades), long considered to be a Republican/conservative attack on his legitimacy as president, got started by his SecState, Hillary Clinton.

Yes, you read that right.  Hillary.  Clinton.

I find it funny that everyone says the Republicans are the only ones that want to keep this going it..there are Dems who want to 'reclaim' the party (mostly in the South) who like using this.. usually from 2nd parties. And the Clintons are much nastier than their 'aw shucks'  southern folks image.

[MasterMischief]

You know, I find all this extremely ironic (though that may not be the correct term) in the fact that this whole issue over Obama's birth cert (and now his grades), long considered to be a Republican/conservative attack on his legitimacy as president, got started by his SecState, Hillary Clinton.

Yes, you read that right.  Hillary.  Clinton.

I do not really see it as ironic.  It is an attack on the person instead of that person's stance on issues.  When Hillary viewed Obama as an opponent, the same tactic was used. 

If anything, I think this should be an indicator that there really isn't anything of substance here.