People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals Kill Rate

Started by LtRipley, July 12, 2013, 11:57:57 AM

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LtRipley

So I'm an animal lover, as are most of my friends. As a result it's not uncommon for me to see animal rights stuff in my feed on facebook. A good few of my friends are also involved in animal adoption, two of which directly work for local shelters, not just volunteer. I adopted my dog through a network of people who use facebook to find homes for dogs in need. I love animals, I don't think they should ever be harmed, but I still eat meat.

And I hate PETA. I hate them so much. They're just a bunch of media hounds looking for attention in my honest opinion. For example: They'll boycott and protest the big name rodeos that treat their horses and bulls like living gods (not kidding, go look into it), but don't even look at the small time rodeos that are way more prone to cruelty. I've heard so many horror stories about them from people who had gotten involved. They take a good message and twist into this horrible freak show. But people think they're so wonderful, that they're doing so much good.

Most people also don't realize that PETA isn't just against using animals for agriculture or industry purposes (ie meat and fur and leather) they're against owning animals at all. That includes cats and dogs. They think that when you own a pet dog, you're keeping that dog as a prisoner, and that that dog would be better off dead than enslaved and subjected to such cruelty (yeah, my chubby little corgi mix sleeping on her own giant bed right this moment after eating her breakfast sure is mistreated).

I know this, so I'm not surprised at all by the recent stir in the media about how incredibly high their kill rate it at their Norfolk, VA, facility is. I've known about this for years and years. They kill nearly every animal they get, and not just at the Norfolk location, every location that takes in pets. They kill 90% of them. They don't even try to find them homes, just take them into the back, gas them, and dump them. Their Las Vegas (I believe... I could be wrong, I'll try to find the article) location got fined for improper disposal of animal carcasses because they were just tossing them into the dumpster behind the building. I had a friend who was involved with PETA briefly who went with a bunch of volunteers out to a puppy mill to take all the dogs that spent their entire lives in cramped cages, with the understanding that the dogs would be cared for and then rehomed. She took almost all of her savings and donated it to PETA to help cover the costs, but a month later, almost all of the dogs had been put down, they only adopted out three or four. And when she asked what was done with her donation money, they told her it was none of her business.

This is a statement from the AKC (though I find their stance on this pretty hypocritical but I'll go into that another time) about PETA's policy on euthanizing pets instead of rehoming them. http://links.mkt2242.com/servlet/MailView?ms=NTM0MTIxNwS2&r=MzQyNTE1Njg5NzIS1&j=MTU1NjcyNDcyS0&mt=1&rt=0

and an article a friend posted today on the issue http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/us/peta-finds-itself-on-receiving-end-of-others-anger.html?pagewanted=all&_r=3&

Trieste

I don't actually know anyone who thinks PETA is doing good. Maybe it's because my circles are animal rescues, I don't know, but PETA is to animal rights activism what that church is to Christianity - they assume the mantle of it but they are extremists who give the whole thing a bad name.

Any good that they manage to do in the course of their extremism is secondary to their destructive goal (which seems to be the destruction of all people so the animals can rise up and rule the world, free from the bondage of human masters). They see themselves as an underground railroad for pets, of sorts, and the larger organization disgusts me.

Volunteering, donating, and working with smaller local animal shelters is really the best way to help homeless pets in general.

LtRipley

They're more like the Westboro Baptist Church really... seem intent on spreading their message through hate. I always get a little disgusted when I see a celebrity endorsing them. They should be endorsing rescues and shelters if they really care, not some big extremist organization. But they're just doing it for the PR I guess.

Trieste

Who did you think I meant when I said 'that church'? >.>

Blythe

I just don't like PETA for one reason:

All the money they spend on hate-mongering and villifying organizations over what they perceive as unethical treatment of animals (via advertising in magazine/internet/etc.) could actually be used to...I don't know...directly help animals by focusing on donating to and providing for shelters, supporting organizations like PAWS, supporting outdoor parks and other places where animals can play, etc.

As for me, I've always wanted to see the equivalent of a "food bank" for animals where an owner can stop by and get food for their pets if they're having trouble feeding them.

Just my two cents.

Oniya

Quote from: Blythe on July 12, 2013, 04:56:00 PM
As for me, I've always wanted to see the equivalent of a "food bank" for animals where an owner can stop by and get food for their pets if they're having trouble feeding them.

I think we actually have something like that here.  The little ice cream shop that we go to periodically is some sort of donation-collection place for pet food and such.

You know why PETA goes after little old ladies in fur coats?
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It's safer than going after the big guys in the leather jackets.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
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Kythia

Watching 28 Days Later at the moment.  The major problem with animal rights people, which everyone seems to be dancing around, is that they caused the zombie apocalypse.

Dicks.
242037

Trieste

That's a zombie movie I can actually watch! ;D

Actually, I saw Warm Bodies last night and I didn't have the triephobia meltdown. It was actually a really cute movie.

What was the topic again?

Sel Nar

PETA and their being giant assholes that act (and honestly believe) that anyone who owns a pet, or uses any sort of animal-based product deserves prison, combined with their 90+% kill rate for animals they're supposed to re-home?

I still think that the most... clear example of their insanity is that their CEO, who is diabetic, was asked once about her stance on her use of insulin derived from animals (Ie; what she needs to live). Her response was that if it's her, it's okay, but anyone else can go die in a fire. (She's also been on record as stating that, if a cure for HIV/AIDS was found, and it involved even the hint of animal testing, that she'd protest and try to destroy the cure.)

Oniya

Too late.  Most of the testing they've already done started with the SIV virus that HIV evolved from.

(I'd tell you how I know this, but then I'd have to - well, not shoot you, but probably more like wipe your hard drive or something.  IT people don't get a very good threat list.)
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Trieste

Quote from: Oniya on July 12, 2013, 07:05:29 PM
Too late.  Most of the testing they've already done started with the SIV virus that HIV evolved from.

(I'd tell you how I know this, but then I'd have to - well, not shoot you, but probably more like wipe your hard drive or something.  IT people don't get a very good threat list.)

All you have to do is read Google Scholar for a bit to know that. >.>

<.<

Everyone does that, right?

LtRipley

Quote from: Blythe on July 12, 2013, 04:56:00 PM
I just don't like PETA for one reason:

All the money they spend on hate-mongering and villifying organizations over what they perceive as unethical treatment of animals (via advertising in magazine/internet/etc.) could actually be used to...I don't know...directly help animals by focusing on donating to and providing for shelters, supporting organizations like PAWS, supporting outdoor parks and other places where animals can play, etc.

As for me, I've always wanted to see the equivalent of a "food bank" for animals where an owner can stop by and get food for their pets if they're having trouble feeding them.

Just my two cents.

Like I said, they're just glory hounds, they don't actually want to do any work. They just want to get attention and make money.

NiceTexasGuy

#12
Maybe I'm a little biased -- okay, maybe I'm a lot biased, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. 

It looks to me like PETA is all about clueless out-of-touch-with-the-real-world celebrities who need to throw their weight around by espousing various "causes" they feel are suitably politically correct, and the adoring fans who hang on every word they say, every move they make, and follow all the other lemmings as they dive into the Coolaid.
What a shame -- The money you spent on those tattoos could have gone toward a boob job.
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Retribution

Let me weigh on from another point of view....as most of you know I am an avid outdoorsman. My family lives on wild game and fish and we have farm animals. Four horses, a rabbit, more barn cats than I can count that are all well fed and mice fear my feed bin! Three outside dogs all of which hunt a lab, an 11 year old beagle, and a treeing fiest (squirrel dog though she is more my kid's run around the yard dog). I am a board member of a Delta Waterfowl chapter, member of Ducks Unlimited (though I prefer Delta, DU has forgotten the hunters), member of National Wild Turkey Federation (you would not have turkey in the US if it was not for NWTF). Just so you get my background and as I have said before I hate animal rights.

I love PETA, they show the whole movement for what it is a bunch of wackos. The Hollywood types who back them honest to god my impression is they feel guilty for being rich and famous and are trying to atone. The thing I find disturbing is the ungodly amount of money donated to PETA as it shows that there are some deluded people out there and a lot of them. But PETA does people like me who are into -responsible- land usage and animal ownership a large favor in giving the movement a black eye. In short if it were not for organizations largely funded by hunters there would be much less wildlife. DU saved ducks before conservation was cool way back in the 30s. NTWF transplanted turkeys nation wide when they were extinct except for a small pocket in the Ozarks. You get the idea I think. Outdoors men and women put their money and time where their mouth is.

Now you want to talk dangerous animal rights Humane Society US on the -national- level. Note I said national, there are many, many, local chapters that are no kill shelters that do good work as others on this thread mentioned. But just for grins sometime I encourage you to do a Google search on HSUS. Look at their web pages then read some of the other articles written about them. You will find most are slanted one way or the other, but my general impression is that on a management level. I mean at the top president so on not rank and file they have just as radical an agenda as PETA they just have brains enough to hide it. Now that is something that worries me.

LtRipley

I don't hunt, but not out of moral reasons, just because I find nothing interesting about sitting in a tree stand or a duck blind waiting for something to happen by, tracking might be more interesting for me, but no one around here does that. Most of my family are outdoorsmen, especially my uncle and his family, and I grew up in the middle of the woods and have always loved wildlife. And having grown up around hunters and worked around them (I worked at Bass Pro Shops for a good two years) I always get annoyed when people act like hunters are just out to kill everything. Yeah, there are some ignorant pricks out there who are (like the time in one of my high school classes we were watching a documentary about endangered species and there was some redneck talking about how he'd shoot something even if it was endangered because that just made it even cooler to mount on his wall), but for the most part hunters are usually also environmentalists who understand the importance of land and resource management to keep up healthy population numbers of wild animals. Also since humans have removed most of the apex predators from most areas hunters are important for keeping population sizes from getting out of control.

I don't trust any of the big national organizations involved with animal welfare, not the AKC, not the HSUS, and I'm also very skeptical of the ASPCA, when an entity reaches that level there's jsut so much corruption. People would do better donating to local animal shelters, not these big corporations that have become more about power and public relations.

Most celebrities though are pretty out of touch with reality. So I'm not surprised they do stuff like endorse PETA or donate to them.

Retribution

Ironic you mention population management. That is where Delta Waterfowl and Ducks Unlimited are at odds. Delta backs predator management (duck nest raiders coons, skunks so on) DU is appalled by the idea because it is not politically correct. Delta has science that shows things that control coons and other nest raiders have been removed so the only control is well trapping. Double politically incorrect! But nest raiders are decimating ducks and other ground nesting birds such as quail heck kildeers which are non game. I may have misspelled the later, but the anti fur  and anti trapping movement has lead to a population explosion of coons, skunks, possums ect... and they eat a lot of eggs.

Beguile's Mistress

My Grandy used to say the animals don't care about politics.  They just want to breed and eat.  His friend, Eagle Feather, had his own philosophy.  The best way to protect animals is to get rid of people.  The animals did fine before we started taking over the world.

Retribution

Quote from: Beguile's Mistress on July 13, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
My Grandy used to say the animals don't care about politics.  They just want to breed and eat.  His friend, Eagle Feather, had his own philosophy.  The best way to protect animals is to get rid of people.  The animals did fine before we started taking over the world.

True, but as a people I kind of like my place in the world  :-)

LtRipley

Quote from: Retribution on July 13, 2013, 03:26:17 PM
Ironic you mention population management. That is where Delta Waterfowl and Ducks Unlimited are at odds. Delta backs predator management (duck nest raiders coons, skunks so on) DU is appalled by the idea because it is not politically correct. Delta has science that shows things that control coons and other nest raiders have been removed so the only control is well trapping. Double politically incorrect! But nest raiders are decimating ducks and other ground nesting birds such as quail heck kildeers which are non game. I may have misspelled the later, but the anti fur  and anti trapping movement has lead to a population explosion of coons, skunks, possums ect... and they eat a lot of eggs.

yeah unfortunately we've kind of gotten the food web all sorts of screwed up. They don't need to be supporting the population of secondary predators without having the presence of apex predators to keep them in check. That's exactly why my dream job is wildlife biology with a specialization in large predators, especially wolves. People really don't understand how important apex predators are for keeping everything under them in balance.

Trieste

"I hate animal rights and I'm glad PETA gives you all a bad name!" seems kind of inflammatory, especially since the majority of those concerned with animal rights are concerned with humane treatment and general kindness to animals. I don't know that you realize that most people concerned with animal rights are pretty well sane and who realize that overpopulation is a problem that affects quite a few species.

Whatever the case.

Quote from: Beguile's Mistress on July 13, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
My Grandy used to say the animals don't care about politics.  They just want to breed and eat.  His friend, Eagle Feather, had his own philosophy.  The best way to protect animals is to get rid of people.  The animals did fine before we started taking over the world.

Doesn't this miss the fact that people are an animal, too? ::)

Retribution

Quote from: Trieste on July 14, 2013, 10:34:00 AM
"I hate animal rights and I'm glad PETA gives you all a bad name!" seems kind of inflammatory, especially since the majority of those concerned with animal rights are concerned with humane treatment and general kindness to animals. I don't know that you realize that most people concerned with animal rights are pretty well sane and who realize that overpopulation is a problem that affects quite a few species.

Whatever the case.


Ah but I happen to differentiate between animal rights and animal welfare. As I mentioned before I have nothing but respect for say the local shelter....animal welfare. I have nothing but contempt for the goal of setting the cattle of the world free as they were meant to be. Minor detail a domestic cow could not survive in the wild for example. Animal rights, so in my vocabulary the people concerned for animals would be into animal welfare. Those are the sane people. I should have expressed that better, but I thought it was a common understanding shows what one gets from assuming.

Retribution

I wnet back to my original post because I thought I expressed my understanding and support of local shelters so on. I think this quote shows that.

Quote from: Retribution on July 13, 2013, 08:34:46 AM

Now you want to talk dangerous animal rights Humane Society US on the -national- level. Note I said national, there are many, many, local chapters that are no kill shelters that do good work as others on this thread mentioned.

And since terminology seems to be an issue here is an interesting little historical and legal bit on the issue.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Animal+Rights

Mera1506

Well animal welfare is important. The PETA is just a bunch of jerks who don't seem to understand that animals who have lived among humans might not survive in the wild. A sad example was the killer whale Free Willy who died of lonelyness once completely cut on from humans. He didn't know how to talk to his own kind anymore. This is where organisations go overboard, the welfare of animals should come first and if an animal is happier in captivity with humans that's fine.

Though I would like to see the number of test animals reduced because their treatment is inhumane.

Callie Del Noire

I once read the will of the PETA founder. I can't articulate how creepy those folks are.

Add in their 'kill' shelters and other antics, and sanctimonious attitudes.. I look for other ways to help animals. Anyone that runs ANYTHING with ties to PETA gets lots of scrutiny

Shjade

#24
Quote from: Sel Nar on July 12, 2013, 07:00:06 PM
She's also been on record as stating that, if a cure for HIV/AIDS was found, and it involved even the hint of animal testing, that she'd protest and try to destroy the cure.

Jesus.

Just...I have no words. The fuck.

Westboro I can understand. They're the absolute height of real life vile trolling, hate-spewing, self-righteous dickery, fine, whatever. But that? That's...I mean, assuming she's serious, that's psychotic. Like, not even borderline. She's crazy.
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Oniya

Considering how many cleaning products involve toxicity testing somewhere along the line, I'd hate to see the condition of her house.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
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Sel Nar


LtRipley

While I'm not for animal testing in general, I realize that at times, it's a necessary evil.

I have a very good friend who lives in Calgary, Canada, and they have the Calgary Stampede there every summer. It's basically the biggest rodeo in North America, I was lucky enough to go last year. Every year they have PETA protestors trying to make things difficult, making it out like the bulls and horses are being tortured, and not just the broncs but the privately owned horses that are ridden in like barrel racing and reining and the like. Uh. The bulls and broncs owned by big rodeos like this are treated like ROYALTY. They get massages, regimented diets of organic foods, heated and cooled stalls, and when they're not being ridden and having to work, are very well-behaved and actually love people. PETA doesn't care about the smaller rodeo where actual abuse takes place, because protesting those don't get them any attention. They don't care about actually helping animals, just getting the media to put a camera on them.

Deamonbane

Sounds like a politically based organization, if you ask me...
Angry Sex: Because it's Impolite to say," You pissed me off so much I wanna fuck your brains out..."

Oniya

Quote from: Deamonbane on September 16, 2013, 03:50:38 PM
Sounds like a politically based organization, if you ask me...

That about sums up the current incarnation.  I think way back in the early days of their creation they might have had a reasonable brain cell in there somewhere.  Today - not so much.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

WindVoyager

PETA used to do good when it first started but now its all a bunch of loonies and the like that use shock tactics and attack everyone for the littlest things. Some of their employes were caught dumping the bodies of dead dogs and cats they killed in dumpsters, the dogs and cats people surrendered to them believing they would be adopted out and instead they were all killed. Because PETA nutters believe pets are
slaves and are better off dead then owned

They are even against fishing of any sort. While Im against shark fishing and really do believe that commercial fisheries are doing a lot of damage and need to be heavily regulated, I still am going to fish. Its partly fun and partly for substance. But there are somethings even I agree with hem on, like the banning of de clawing and banning horse dawn carriages given all the injuries and deaths of both the horses and people.


Visit their home page sometime if you want a good laugh.

I heard this a while back and given the source of it I don't know if its true or not....the founder of PETA wants her remains to be cooked and served when she dies................

They have an income of about 42 million and most of it goes right into the pockets of the higher ups





Callie Del Noire

Quote from: WindVoyager on September 30, 2013, 03:14:44 AM
PETA used to do good when it first started but now its all a bunch of loonies and the like that use shock tactics and attack everyone for the littlest things. Some of their employes were caught dumping the bodies of dead dogs and cats they killed in dumpsters, the dogs and cats people surrendered to them believing they would be adopted out and instead they were all killed. Because PETA nutters believe pets are
slaves and are better off dead then owned

They are even against fishing of any sort. While Im against shark fishing and really do believe that commercial fisheries are doing a lot of damage and need to be heavily regulated, I still am going to fish. Its partly fun and partly for substance. But there are somethings even I agree with hem on, like the banning of de clawing and banning horse dawn carriages given all the injuries and deaths of both the horses and people.


Visit their home page sometime if you want a good laugh.

I heard this a while back and given the source of it I don't know if its true or not....the founder of PETA wants her remains to be cooked and served when she dies................

They have an income of about 42 million and most of it goes right into the pockets of the higher ups

Ohh.. yeah..

http://www.peta.org/features/ingrid-newkirks-unique-will.aspx

It's a nasty little bit of BS (to me)

Oniya

...  The utterly tasteless puns I could come up with...

And that's before delving into the 'Stranger in a Strange Land' references.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Kythia

Will the umbrella stands be available to buy?  One of those would go sweet in my front hall. Next to the lampshade made of human skin, near my necklace of ears. 
242037

Oniya

I was going to riff on the similar sounds of the acronym and a certain pocket-shaped bread for starters.  ;D
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: Oniya on September 30, 2013, 01:05:25 PM
I was going to riff on the similar sounds of the acronym and a certain pocket-shaped bread for starters.  ;D

I pissed off one nut job.. 'People for Eating Tasty Animals'. But they were yelling at me for wearing a uniform made of worsted wool. (Sheep exploitation)

Oniya

That was actually a legit website for a while.  Had wild game recipes.  And wool-sheep need to be shorn, because they don't lose their coats when the weather warms up.  It can get pretty messy after a while
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Florence

PETA hardly care, if a human touches an animal for any reason, we're causing them untold suffering :P
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Deamonbane

Quote from: WindVoyager on September 30, 2013, 03:14:44 AM
...and banning horse dawn carriages given all the injuries and deaths of both the horses and people.
Say what?
Angry Sex: Because it's Impolite to say," You pissed me off so much I wanna fuck your brains out..."

DarklingAlice

Ah animal rights activists. Some days they make me smile.



I mean, when they aren't engaged in acts that are immoral, criminal, and/or otherwise disgusting.
We have a strong moral obligation to look out for animal welfare, and ironically the animal rights folks tend to forget that.
For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant, and wrong.


TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Oniya on September 30, 2013, 10:35:32 AM
...  The utterly tasteless puns I could come up with...

And that's before delving into the 'Stranger in a Strange Land' references.

Would the puns really be tasteless, or would they taste like pork? :D

Oniya

"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Kythia

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on September 30, 2013, 10:20:23 PM
Would the puns really be tasteless, or would they taste like pork? :D

Puns: the other other white meat.
242037

Skynet

Even some of the more passionate animal rights activists I know do not like PETA, for many of the reasons listed here.  I also think that their "sexy vegetables" marketing is very ineffective.  A lot of straight guys aren't going to give up their delicious meat just because they see almost-naked women fondling carrots.

WindVoyager

PETA is a bunch of nutters and the members brain wash their kids with all the PETA nonsense. They made some games that are rips offs of pokemon that feature animals being killed and like so they can' try to brianwash kiddies into thinking all fastfood joints are evil. They act like No Kills are the best thing since sliced bread and think all dogs can be saved.

Most no kills are limited intake and only take pets that are very adoptable and keep them in cages for months even years and won't put them  down even if the dog is mentally unstable from bang in a cage for too long. Some even hoard animals like that so called Pitt bull recuse that has hyper aggressive dogs they keep in cages and refuse to put them down.

persephone325

When I was younger (MUCH, much younger), I used to think that I was a bad person for eating meat because of PETA. I love animals so much, and I haven't been without a pet that I can ever remember. Our pets are spoiled rotten, and grow old and live happy lives. They tend to get fat and lazy, but hey; at least they have a nice warm, comfy bed to pass out on.

I thought that because I loved animals so much, that I shouldn't eat them because that required killing them. I've tried going vegan/vegetarian for a while, but I just can't. My doctor even said it wouldn't be a good idea for me to do that. So, I looked around on the internet and found that it's normal to love animals but eat meat.

Now, when people try to shove their "no-meat" lifestyle down my throat... That's when I have a problem.
This doesn't have to end in a fight, Buck.
It always ends in a fight.
You pulled me from the river. Why?
I don't know.
"Don't dwell on those who hold you down. Instead, cherish those who helped you up."

Oniya

PETA doesn't like people to have enslaved animals pets either. 

Of course, I think they're just denying cats their right to have the proper number of worshipers.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

persephone325

Quote from: Oniya on October 17, 2013, 12:04:59 AM
PETA doesn't like people to have enslaved animals pets either. 

Of course, I think they're just denying cats their right to have the proper number of worshipers.

^^ I'm a cat worshiper, and I'm damn proud of it. Haha.
This doesn't have to end in a fight, Buck.
It always ends in a fight.
You pulled me from the river. Why?
I don't know.
"Don't dwell on those who hold you down. Instead, cherish those who helped you up."

WindVoyager

QuoteNow, when people try to shove their "no-meat" lifestyle down my throat... That's when I have a problem.

Ever notice a LOT of vegans and vegetarians look sickly and really pale? The have to heavily supplement their diets with vitemens and the like and eat far too much over processed fake meat and far too much over processed tofu. And don't forget fake cheese and everything else. Ever read the ingredients? Almost nothing natural in that stuff. I've even seen something called palo bread that had nothing natural in it, no grain, no yeast, no soy, no eggs, no nothing. It was all artificial ingredients.

Last I heard PETA was even against the eradication of feral animals like feral hogs and cats despite the fact feral cats are directly respoible for putting many species on the extent list and many more on the endangered list and feral hogs do a lot of damage to the environment and have attacked people

Retribution

#49
Quote from: WindVoyager on October 17, 2013, 12:35:01 PM
Last I heard PETA was even against the eradication of feral animals like feral hogs and cats despite the fact feral cats are directly respoible for putting many species on the extent list and many more on the endangered list and feral hogs do a lot of damage to the environment and have attacked people

Another thing they are against is extended hunting of say snow geese that are extremely over populated and destroying their habitat http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-04-04/news/bs-ed-geese-20110404_1_snow-geese-snow-goose-brilliant-bodies

Or while I am on my soap box fur. Fur is politically incorrect and evil in the popular press. We also have an overpopulation of furbearers that are decimating other species http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/what-we-do/management.html  And then add to that real fur is also better for the environment than synthetic garments http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2010/01/a_hairy_situation.html

So one is left to ask if letting a snow goose starve rather than hunting them is more cruel? Or is letting a rampant raccoon population decimate ground nesting birds before contracting distemper and spreading it to family pets and other wildlife more "kind" than taking a few pelts? Biology and animal life are all one big system. Effect one thing you effect another into infinity. A Hollywood type who joins PETA because they feel bad about having a lot of money is really not a very good source for reference on viable ecosystems. But if they feel bad they should feel free to give some of their money to me.

Thus ends my rant  :-)

Oniya

Quote from: Retribution on October 17, 2013, 01:05:00 PM
Or while I am on my soap box fur. Fur is politically incorrect and evil in the popular press. We also have an overpopulation of furbearers that are decimating other species http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/what-we-do/management.html  And then add to that real fur is also better for the environment than synthetic garments http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2010/01/a_hairy_situation.html

Remember what the rabbits did to Australia.  *nods*  I don't feel guilty at all for that massage mitt.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

WindVoyager

PETA likely thinks the population will just balance back out on its own. With a lack of natural predators that won't happen. Look at how deer are massively over populated in many areas and PETA pitches massive fits when they are culled for the sake of both the deer and humans.

They love to think fake fur is good when it produces MORE toxic waste then any tannery does. Not to mention fake furs just feels so ....fake.

Don't forget they love to support feral cats and the who trap, neuter and dump operations that are wrecking native and migratory wild life and the feral cats spread diseases and parasites to native wild life and cause all kinds of damage to property. All the money wasted on TNR could have been used to save the lives of adoptable cats in shelters and rescue and help support low cost clinics.

Last I heard they were campaigning to stop Australia from hiring people to shoot feral cats, foxes and rabbits due to the massive amount of damage they do to the local wildlife and many feral cat supporters refuse to believe that feral cats are directly respoible for putting so many species on the extinct list

I'm tempted to look at their website for a good laugh

Shadowclaw

Yeah, people who blindly support causes without looking into them... are tools. Sorry, but they are. I would NEVER give any organization a single sent or second of my time without doing a good amount of research on them. I've known about PETA for years, and those bastards are sick evil twisted psychos who breed other sick evil twisted psychos. They're actually worse than scientologists.

Shadowclaw

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have brought up Scientology. But I've heard of PETA doing some truly despicable awful things. I don't even like to think about it so I'm going to post in another thread somewhere. I'm a huge lover of animals, so stuff like this really bothers me. *shivers*

Silk

Just putting this out there for a few people, are you aware of just how strict the measures are? For a Comparative Psychology study that our university proposed about how odor having an effect on how long it took a rat to complete a maze and how it may relate to human sensory adaption to finding each other, (example between a female rat in heat to one who wasn't) needed a on site vet, a animal welfare officer, roughly £3000 worth of safety precautions (for 6 rats) weekly checks to make sure that the animals were well treated and all studies had to be recorded and done in the presence of said animal welfare officer.

We just wanted to have a rat run through a maze and time how long it took when particular smells were involved :(

vivaciousvixen

Quote from: Trieste on July 12, 2013, 02:00:33 PM
...they are extremists who give the whole thing a bad name.

That is exactly what I think of PETA. Extremists - the only word to describe them accurately. And they are breeding a lot of young extremist through their graphic advertisements and celebrity endorsements.

I am a proud pet owner who has always loved animals and wanted to be a vet in my early childhood (until i discovered how much blood is involved!). I currently own a wolf hybrid and a husky mix on my plot in a rural neighborhood. I hunt and fish and get dirty when necessary. I kill when I have to and even for sport, but I try to be as humane as possible and because I am a spiritual person, I say a prayer for each animal or bug I kill. A bit silly for some, but I don't bother anyone directly, and I also don't ask others to do the same. I just do MY own thing that makes me happy and comfortable with taking the life of the animal, or feeling like I caused it harm. I also try to ensure that the death is respected by making the most use of the animal as possible.

I recently posted an opinion on a public forum regarding the incident in which police shot a Rottweiler in Hawthorne, CA. I stated that the police were not in the wrong for shooting the dog, because factually, they were not. The slew of outcries against me ranged from people wanting me to be shot, all the way to that I would rot in Hell. That is what PETA breeds. When did it become okay to put animals before people? I think we should respect animals, but to go so far as to say you would rather a person get mauled by a dog, than shoot an attacking dog in defense is illogical.

Callie Del Noire

Re-reading thru their wiki article and a few news articles over this weekend, I was amazed to see how much of their cash collection is centralized. You donate to your local PETA chapter, it goes up the chain to national rather than staying in the area for the most part. I saw how the leader/founder of PETA has little to no oversight and felt a parallel between her and the founder of Julian Assange come into view.

Both are very charismatic characters with a very dictatorial leadership style. IE.. it's THEIR way or the highway. I find myself wondering how many special interests are like that now.

WindVoyager

QuoteI recently posted an opinion on a public forum regarding the incident in which police shot a Rottweiler in Hawthorne, CA. I stated that the police were not in the wrong for shooting the dog, because factually, they were not. The slew of outcries against me ranged from people wanting me to be shot, all the way to that I would rot in Hell. That is what PETA breeds. When did it become okay to put animals before people? I think we should respect animals, but to go so far as to say you would rather a person get mauled by a dog, than shoot an attacking dog in defense is illogical.

Every time a cop rightfully shoots a dog in self defense or in defense of public safety there is a massive out cry. Tazers don't work well on dogs and won't stop an aggressive one from attacking yet people insist they be used.

There was a new story were a pair of dogs were allowed to roam and pulled a child off his bike and mauled him and were stated to be destroyed but the public is demanding the dogs be returned to the owner. Some of the comments were stating how it was just a 'nip' and since the dogs were 'working dogs' (they weren't') it was perfectly exceptabel for them to maul a child. The kid needed over 30 stitches and was so badly mauled he had to be air lifted. Thats one hell of a nip

In every story you see about a cop shooting a dog beocuse its aggressive and its a threat to their safety and public safety, there will always be people whining that the offers be fired




Callie Del Noire

Quote from: WindVoyager on December 04, 2013, 11:07:25 PM
Every time a cop rightfully shoots a dog in self defense or in defense of public safety there is a massive out cry. Tazers don't work well on dogs and won't stop an aggressive one from attacking yet people insist they be used.

There was a new story were a pair of dogs were allowed to roam and pulled a child off his bike and mauled him and were stated to be destroyed but the public is demanding the dogs be returned to the owner. Some of the comments were stating how it was just a 'nip' and since the dogs were 'working dogs' (they weren't') it was perfectly exceptabel for them to maul a child. The kid needed over 30 stitches and was so badly mauled he had to be air lifted. Thats one hell of a nip

In every story you see about a cop shooting a dog beocuse its aggressive and its a threat to their safety and public safety, there will always be people whining that the offers be fired

Then there are the 'other cases' where a 15 year old dog with hip displasia and joint issues and a history of never barking, or being violent at all is shot down by a cop because supposedly the dog was 'trying to jump the fence' and moved to attack him in his backyard.

There are both pro and con issues on this. It's one thing that has to be done case by case..

Ivory11

The whole situation with Peta can be summed up nicely in this episode of "Penn and Teller's Bullshit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4D1godY4vI

Ivory11

Quote from: WindVoyager on October 17, 2013, 04:48:13 PM
PETA likely thinks the population will just balance back out on its own. With a lack of natural predators that won't happen. Look at how deer are massively over populated in many areas and PETA pitches massive fits when they are culled for the sake of both the deer and humans.

They love to think fake fur is good when it produces MORE toxic waste then any tannery does. Not to mention fake furs just feels so ....fake.

Don't forget they love to support feral cats and the who trap, neuter and dump operations that are wrecking native and migratory wild life and the feral cats spread diseases and parasites to native wild life and cause all kinds of damage to property. All the money wasted on TNR could have been used to save the lives of adoptable cats in shelters and rescue and help support low cost clinics.

Last I heard they were campaigning to stop Australia from hiring people to shoot feral cats, foxes and rabbits due to the massive amount of damage they do to the local wildlife and many feral cat supporters refuse to believe that feral cats are directly respoible for putting so many species on the extinct list

I'm tempted to look at their website for a good laugh

so true!

i remember when that dast twat "Pink" went on her crusade to stop Australia from docking sheep, which we now do with tight rubber rings, we clip the ring on a lamb's tail, in a couple weeks the tail falls off due to total loss of blood flow.

Of course a cunt like Pink has never seen or smelled a fly-blown sheep, who's flesh is rotting while it's alive and seen maggots festering IN the sheep's flesh.
Removing the tail does no harm to the sheep, and prevents them from getting fly-blown, which saves them from months or even years of horrible agony as maggots eat them from the inside out.

Peta is so "High and mighty" that they're even worse than Greenpeace in that regard.
Don't get me wrong, Fuck Russia's oil drilling and fuck Japan's killing of wales, and fuck excessive unsustainable foresting, but for example in the incident with Greenpeace members being arrested in Russia... they boarded the ship without permission with the expressed purpose of causing harm to the vessel and prevent it from carrying out it's duty, that is by the legal definition... Piracy.

I am so sick of these city-living university students who have never experienced nature themselves beyond a day-trip to a pretty tourist site, telling us who have experienced the harsh realities of living on the land, what to do and what we can't do!

We don't like noticing that a lamb has grown too big to put the ring on, so we have to hold it down while we cut it off with a red-hot blade, but we know that by doing it, we are saving that lamb from a life of horrible agony at the hands of flies, their eggs and maggots.

Hell last month I went hunting with my dad, shot a fox right between the eyes (his eyes FLEW out, it was hilarious) and you know what? by killing that fox i saved many chickens, sheep and others, by killing one i save dozens, and that is something PETA does not understand.

Oniya

Please remember that this board is for debate and discussion.  Points can be made without resorting to this level of venom.
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

Light Ice

PETA, in the past, has done a nice job with investigations that otherwise wouldn't be taken up by law enforcement.  I'll give them that.

Really, though, that's about where it ends.  Awareness is important, even today, but the general attitude and approach makes it more difficult for legitimate animal rescue organizations to do what they do.  They've created a stigma around the movement that doesn't exactly make the effort seem easy to sympathize with. 

Which is damaging, really, because in the end it is sympathy that sustains many shelters and rescues.
An excellent man; he has no enemies; and none of his friends like him.
-Oscar Wilde

HannibalBarca

#63
My wife, the gentle animal-loving soul that she is, got swept up by the heartstring-tugging (or stomach churning, whatever) advertising of PETA and supported them for a time as a young teen.  She even became a vegan.

Of course, when she actually went to live with a PETA couple and their 30+ dogs and 90+ cats to help care for the animals, she found out the truth.  The couple were about as maladjusted and sick in the head as you'd expect people to be that had 90+ cats living in a single-wide trailer in the middle of the California desert.  The amount of urine, feces, and vomit in the home was appalling, and while my wife spent an entire weekend cleaning the home once, it was dirty again even before she'd finished.  The couple sat in the living room on recliners crusted with the cat's filth.  The place made her so ill, she basically barricaded herself in her own clean bedroom with her microwave and mini-fridge, until she finally couldn't stand it anymore, and moved back to her mother's house.

Oh, and I convinced her to go back to meat again when I tempted her with a fried chicken leg.  I'm bad  >:)  Hey, humans are animals, too, and omnivores at that.  There's a reason I have canines. 

I don't look at humanity as above, better than, or separate from nature.  I see us ruining nature as a species in too many ways, but nature has a way of balancing things in the long run, and the Earth's biosphere will outlive us regardless of our decisions.  It is just sad to see rampant destruction of so many species due to humanity's poor choices in Earth husbandry.
“Those who lack drama in their
lives strive to invent it.”   ― Terry Masters
"It is only when we place hurdles too high to jump
before our characters, that they learn how to fly."  --  Me
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Lux12

Quote from: Atroxa on July 12, 2013, 11:57:57 AM
So I'm an animal lover, as are most of my friends. As a result it's not uncommon for me to see animal rights stuff in my feed on facebook. A good few of my friends are also involved in animal adoption, two of which directly work for local shelters, not just volunteer. I adopted my dog through a network of people who use facebook to find homes for dogs in need. I love animals, I don't think they should ever be harmed, but I still eat meat.


This is everything I had hoped was true about them. I was honestly holding out hope that this was not the case, but unfortunately the evidence before me reveals a rather sad truth.

It doesn't make sense to save even otherwise healthy animals from situations where they might die if left there for an extensive period of time just to kill them? How is it saving or protecting animals when they're killing more than many standard shelters probably do? The taking of life is an extreme act that should not be undergone lightly no matter who is doing it. I abhor killing in general, but if one is going to do so for any reason at all, they should not do it casually, without thought, or for any petty reasons. Despite their claims it sounds as if PETA is running a sort of animal concentration camp. If a dog loves its family and canines have frequently befriended humans throughout history and people even think of them as part of their family, how is it evil to re-home them? How is one a friend to animals if they rescue them just to kill them?

HannibalBarca

It takes effort to find pets homes.  PETA would rather concentrate their efforts on raising outrage and stirring up shit rather than do the hard drudgery of actually making a difference in real animals' lives.  The height of hypocrisy.
“Those who lack drama in their
lives strive to invent it.”   ― Terry Masters
"It is only when we place hurdles too high to jump
before our characters, that they learn how to fly."  --  Me
Owed/current posts
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consortium11

Quote from: HannibalBarca on December 14, 2013, 11:04:21 AM
It takes effort to find pets homes.  PETA would rather concentrate their efforts on raising outrage and stirring up shit rather than do the hard drudgery of actually making a difference in real animals' lives.  The height of hypocrisy.

Isn't it also the fact that the higher ups in PETA are pretty fundamentalist in their animal liberty beliefs and as such view pets as a form of slavery and thus something to be opposed.

A sort of "better to die on their feet rather than live on their knees" style mentality.

Lux12

Quote from: consortium11 on December 14, 2013, 07:20:21 PM
Isn't it also the fact that the higher ups in PETA are pretty fundamentalist in their animal liberty beliefs and as such view pets as a form of slavery and thus something to be opposed.

A sort of "better to die on their feet rather than live on their knees" style mentality.

I would admire the "die on your feet" attitude in them if how they were applying it made any sense.

chaoslord29

It's interesting for me as a long-time lefty to find myself opposed to PETA and similar organizations on every count. I certainly don't hate animals (I have two very well pampered cats at home as I type), but morally, I can't rectify the implications of trying to coddle and provide for animals ahead of human beings. Because that's really what it comes down to for me. Their is something grossly wrong to me with devoting the amount of money, time, and passion in attempts to feed and house stray cats and dogs when their are people suffering just as much if not more, across the globe.

At the end of the day, I have to count myself a speciest, barring the discovering of sentient alien life or any of the higher primates (or dolphins, pigs, or octupi) developing calculus.
My Guiding Light-
'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'- Lord Havelock Vetinari
My ideas and O/Os:Darker Tastes and Tales

Lux12

Quote from: chaoslord29 on December 23, 2013, 03:26:23 PM
It's interesting for me as a long-time lefty to find myself opposed to PETA and similar organizations on every count. I certainly don't hate animals (I have two very well pampered cats at home as I type), but morally, I can't rectify the implications of trying to coddle and provide for animals ahead of human beings. Because that's really what it comes down to for me. Their is something grossly wrong to me with devoting the amount of money, time, and passion in attempts to feed and house stray cats and dogs when their are people suffering just as much if not more, across the globe.

At the end of the day, I have to count myself a speciest, barring the discovering of sentient alien life or any of the higher primates (or dolphins, pigs, or octupi) developing calculus.
I'm of the polar opposite mind set. I value the lives of animals more in a sense. They do not do the wicked things that humans do. Humans have actually gone out of their way to do things that screw things up for everyone. You can point out how the animal kingdom can be brutal, but it is not the same. They do not kill for malice. They are not wanton in what they do. They merely do what they must and follow their nature, fulfill their niches.

TheGlyphstone

Quote from: Lux12 on December 24, 2013, 01:36:27 PM
I'm of the polar opposite mind set. I value the lives of animals more in a sense. They do not do the wicked things that humans do. Humans have actually gone out of their way to do things that screw things up for everyone. You can point out how the animal kingdom can be brutal, but it is not the same. They do not kill for malice. They are not wanton in what they do. They merely do what they must and follow their nature, fulfill their niches.

Counterpoint: Dolphins. ;D

chaoslord29

Quote from: Lux12 on December 24, 2013, 01:36:27 PM
I'm of the polar opposite mind set. I value the lives of animals more in a sense. They do not do the wicked things that humans do. Humans have actually gone out of their way to do things that screw things up for everyone. You can point out how the animal kingdom can be brutal, but it is not the same. They do not kill for malice. They are not wanton in what they do. They merely do what they must and follow their nature, fulfill their niches.
Ah, see but you're positing some sort of agency that exists in humans that allows human beings to defy their "nature". I disagree, humans are ruled by their nature every bit as much as animals, it just happens that human nature allows for certain complexities, chief amongst them conscious thought, which allows us to assign things like 'malice' or 'evil' to what are otherwise exactly the same things animals do regularly.

Predatory animals hunt and kill in order to survive and humans do so for exactly the same reason: they just are able to create more elaborate chains of reasoning to justify why killing in a given scenario is necessary for 'survival'. Herbivores an less predatory animals exercise exactly the same capacities for greed and gluttony (and lasciviousness), it's just that they have less opportunities to exercise them without agriculture and sophisticated technologies. When they do have access to these resources (like say when humans make them available) they will gorge and feed themselves in reckless abandon, eating things that are otherwise unhealthy for them, and grow lazy and reliant on man-made food sources.

The simple fact is that 'malice' is an inherent, elemental force in the subsistence of life. In order to acquire resources to secure your survival you must deprive some other living thing of those resources, whether you're a microbe, a plant, a dolphin, a gazelle, or a higher primate. It is the nature of all things to kill other things in order to survive.
My Guiding Light-
'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'- Lord Havelock Vetinari
My ideas and O/Os:Darker Tastes and Tales

ladia2287

Quote from: Oniya on October 17, 2013, 02:15:10 PM
Remember what the rabbits did to Australia.  *nods*  I don't feel guilty at all for that massage mitt.

Funnily enough throughout Australian history, every time a 'pest' becomes a real problem the powers that be get it into their heads that introducing a foreign animal into the Australian wilderness will solve said problem. All the while the introduced species are decimating a very unique ecology and growing to plague proportions in the process. Rabbits and cane toads are perfect examples of this and now it's gotten to the point where Australia's Border Protection agencies have to implement some of the strictest controls in the world so that we don't accidentally do it again.

chaoslord29

For the record, higher primates (especially chimps and orangs) kill each other at a similar rate for what you see in similar sized populations of humans. They target smaller, weaker members of the community, especially 'loners', as well as killing over mates and food. They also band together when going up against rival chimps for land, setting ambushes and engaging in what very much resembles 'guerrilla' warfare (not strictly a pun I guess cause we're talking about chimps).

Again, whether you call any of this 'murder' or 'war' depends on philosophy, and whether you impart to animals a capacity for moral reasoning comparable to our own. If you make it simply about the cold hard facts for the situation though, it would seem to suggest that higher primates are every bit as capable of murder as we are.
My Guiding Light-
'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'- Lord Havelock Vetinari
My ideas and O/Os:Darker Tastes and Tales

Oniya

Actually, 'guerrilla' means 'skirmisher' (lit. 'little war').
"Language was invented for one reason, boys - to woo women.~*~*~Don't think it's all been done before
And in that endeavor, laziness will not do." ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think we're never gonna win this war
Robin Williams-Dead Poets Society ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~Don't think your world's gonna fall apart
I do have a cause, though.  It's obscenity.  I'm for it.  - Tom Lehrer~*~All you need is your beautiful heart
O/O's Updated 5/11/21 - A/A's - Current Status! - Writing a novel - all draws for Fool of Fire up!
Requests updated March 17

chaoslord29

Quote from: Oniya on December 26, 2013, 11:10:27 AM
Actually, 'guerrilla' means 'skirmisher' (lit. 'little war').

I did not know that, but I presumed it had an unrelated etymology to the eponymous Gorilla; hence the potential for a pun if I hadn't been talking about chimps  ;D
My Guiding Light-
'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'- Lord Havelock Vetinari
My ideas and O/Os:Darker Tastes and Tales

ladia2287

Personally, I believe in letting nature take its course. We should not go out of our way to be cruel or cause harm to other animals (for mankind is still an animal whether we like it or not), but sometimes intervening with the intent of 'protecting' certain animals from harm can make matters worse. If they have what it takes to survive whatever situation they're in, then they'll survive. If not, they won't. The last thing Mother Nature needs is for us to interfere when we can seldom see the big picture.

DemonessOfDeathValley

To be quite honest, I had never really thought much about PETA. On first blush they seemed like radicals to me. The type of people that seem to do what my mother called gagging at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

After reading the provided articles, I don't feel so bad about being interested in hunting or Taxidermy. My grandfather loved to fish and (provided that I don't have to clean it) I found it fun too.

I love animals. I've had several parakeets (Since I always lived in a place where anything but a caged pet wasn't allowed). I give to the local PAWS shelter and my cousin's second dog was gotten from that very shelter. I have to agree that welfare over rights is the way to go.

~Approximate response time - 1-7 days plus ~ Muse cooperative~

IStateYourName

PETA is another in a long list of examples of people taking a good concept (animals should have some rights and be treated humanely inasmuch as is possible) to unworkable, even destructive extremes.  And probably lining their pockets a bit along the way...

chaoslord29

Quote from: IStateYourName on January 08, 2014, 10:40:11 AM
PETA is another in a long list of examples of people taking a good concept (animals should have some rights and be treated humanely inasmuch as is possible) to unworkable, even destructive extremes.  And probably lining their pockets a bit along the way...
Fortunately, PETA's more or less misguided nature extends into their finances. No one ever got rich defending animal rights (except the sponsors).
My Guiding Light-
'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'- Lord Havelock Vetinari
My ideas and O/Os:Darker Tastes and Tales

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: chaoslord29 on January 08, 2014, 11:26:22 AM
Fortunately, PETA's more or less misguided nature extends into their finances. No one ever got rich defending animal rights (except the sponsors).

I'd rethink that.. there are DOZENS of ways they can make money off that.

Consider this.. ALL FUNDRAISING assets are centrally collected and disbursed. Every single donated cent goes through the central office. EVERY LAST one. When you have control of the flow of funds..that makes for impressive amounts money.

That doesn't even include what shorting stock on a protested company could do or other ways a PETA action can effect a company.

chaoslord29

Quote from: Callie Del Noire on January 08, 2014, 12:08:50 PM
I'd rethink that.. there are DOZENS of ways they can make money off that.

Consider this.. ALL FUNDRAISING assets are centrally collected and disbursed. Every single donated cent goes through the central office. EVERY LAST one. When you have control of the flow of funds..that makes for impressive amounts money.

That doesn't even include what shorting stock on a protested company could do or other ways a PETA action can effect a company.

I'm not saying that you couldn't, but PETA is a registered not-for-profit and they're revenue stream is several hundred million a year. That obviously sounds like a lot of money, but as an organization with hundreds of employees supporting a network of millions of supporters worldwide, they're pretty much exemplary as far as cost-effectiveness goes. The major players within the organization are by and large independently wealthy, and unlike many similarly sized not for profits, don't exactly enjoy the same 'company perks'.

PETA finances are monitored with unrivaled scrutiny by watchdog organizations, due largely to the fact that they have in the past given funds to the Animal Liberation Front and Earth Liberation front, both of which have claimed responsibility and been investigated for acts of domestic terrorism.

You want to see a not-for-profit that abuses their status? Investigate any evangelical minister syndicated television appearances, or hell, the church of scientology.
My Guiding Light-
'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'- Lord Havelock Vetinari
My ideas and O/Os:Darker Tastes and Tales

Callie Del Noire

Quote from: chaoslord29 on January 08, 2014, 12:25:25 PM
I'm not saying that you couldn't, but PETA is a registered not-for-profit and they're revenue stream is several hundred million a year. That obviously sounds like a lot of money, but as an organization with hundreds of employees supporting a network of millions of supporters worldwide, they're pretty much exemplary as far as cost-effectiveness goes. The major players within the organization are by and large independently wealthy, and unlike many similarly sized not for profits, don't exactly enjoy the same 'company perks'.

PETA finances are monitored with unrivaled scrutiny by watchdog organizations, due largely to the fact that they have in the past given funds to the Animal Liberation Front and Earth Liberation front, both of which have claimed responsibility and been investigated for acts of domestic terrorism.

You want to see a not-for-profit that abuses their status? Investigate any evangelical minister syndicated television appearances, or hell, the church of scientology.

I know.. I've seen it happen.. I'm just saying.. someone said they couldn't see how a group like Peta could be 'rich enough'. I was pointing out options. I know that several incidents that would kill a less prosperous charity have come up (disposal of animal carcasses for example)