Living in a semi-authoritarian country

[Beorning]

I have written about it before, so let me apologize beforehand if I'm getting boring, annoying or otherwise excessively negative... It's just that I need to get it out of my chest.

Basically: how the heck do you deal with living in a country that spiraling toward authoritarianism? With said country being, in my case, Poland?

Seriously, looking at the state of affairs here, I can only despair. Our current government has made outright lies into its policy - with our PM having lost at least one court case regarding speaking falsehoods. Also, the ruling party's politicians seem to be exempt from any accountability - for instance, our the defacto ruler, PiS chairman Kaczyński, has been officially accused half a year ago of swindling a business partner... and, across the last six months, the prosecutors in charge of the case didn't take any deposition from him (instead, they keep taking depositions from the man who reported the supposed crime... and fining him for various supposed procedural infractions). Also, our government keeps breaking the Constitution also, recently, went as far as declining to execute a lawful court ruling (basically, after a lengthy trial, the court ordered for the government to release some important documents... and the government is currently saying that they won't do this, because the court was simply wrong)!

Aside from it, we have the government hounding the opposition through the media they sponsor. For instance, the government is currently in conflict with the mayor of Gdańsk... and the government-sponsored media accuse her of being a sympathizer of the Nazi Germany! The government also keeps riling up hate against the LGBT community - with the local governments in various towns that are controlled by PiS officially declaring these towns as "LGBT free", and the main officials of the ruling party accusing the LGBT people of being dangerous to our culture etc. Heck, the PiS chairman went as far as suggest that the LGBT people are, basically, evil!

And the parliamentary process is non-existent, too. The opposition has been stripped of any law-making power in the parliament, with important laws being passed in the matter of hours and any proposals from the opposition being thrown to the trash without any discussion. I still remember the scene from one parliament sitting when the opposition presented a whole package of modifications to one bill being voted on... and the speaker rejected the whole package in a matter of minute or so. Proclaiming loudly: "Modification 1 - unrelated, rejected from proceeding. Modification 2 - unrelated, rejected from proceeding..." etc. This is a parody of democracy!

And the scariest thing? This government won't be voted out of power in the coming elections. It still is the party with the highest support, ranking at 30% - 40% percent. Why? Quite probably because they keep giving out free money to people due to their extremely wide social programs. So, many people seem to simpy ignore how corrupt this government is - because, you know! Free money!

Seriously, this is insane. Poland is becoming another Turkey or Russia... I need hugs, guys :(

[TheGlyphstone]

Poland is still part of the EU, IIRC. Is there really no way you can just...leave? I know that's basically the nuclear option, but is it even on the table as a last resort for you?

[Tolvo]

Essentially I just am prepared to die at any moment. Not in a "Go out guns blazing" way just a "Yep they may just decide to start executing people or a fascist may kick down my door and show up at my house as they have in the past and kill me" way. Any day a war may break out, things may go to ruin as thousands or millions die, and there's really nothing I can do about it. Probably all that can bee done if one can't protest or do anything to fight the rise of authoritarianism is to turn to mental health services and therapy. Which usually in such countries are really lacking. I might be a bit more adjusted to it though since my entire life I've lived with a father who talks about how all gay people should be hanged, that black people need to be exterminated to eliminate crime, that women are inferior, that mental illness and disabilities don't really exist, etc. So that sort of stuff has been ever present in my life every single day. And if somehow things get better that's a pleasant surprise.

[HannibalBarca]

I'm sorry to hear how much of a spiral it's becoming in Poland, Beorning.  It's much the same in Brazil, getting there in the US, among other places.  I still feel, in some ways, that it's a reaction to time passing these kinds of people by.  As they bury their head in the sand and refuse to move forward with social changes, they fall further and further behind, and become more and more terrified of the world around them not being what they want it to be.  Some of it is driven by antiquated religious beliefs, which are often deeply rooted and combined with ethnic or cultural traditions.  It makes them more driven to vote.  There are few choices of what to do: 1. Do nothing.  2. Continue to engage them and let them know others out there do not believe what they believe.  3.  Move to a city, region, or nation that is more accepting, if able.  4.  In extreme cases, experience a revolution, with varying degrees of upheaval, violence, and effectiveness.

With Poland...it has a very deep history with the Catholic Church, and I don't know how much the church supports the current leaders.  It stood against the Soviets, but does it stand up for human rights like many individual priests and nuns do in South and Central America?

[Beorning]

Poland is still part of the EU, IIRC. Is there really no way you can just...leave? I know that's basically the nuclear option, but is it even on the table as a last resort for you?

I don't know. Moving to another EU country is a possibility, but... I admit I'm not very capable when it comes to life-managing skills. I have a job, living arrangements and medical care organized here, thanks for some longtime efforts. Moving to another city might be a problem - and moving to another country? Sounds... very tough, I admit.

Essentially I just am prepared to die at any moment. Not in a "Go out guns blazing" way just a "Yep they may just decide to start executing people or a fascist may kick down my door and show up at my house as they have in the past and kill me" way. Any day a war may break out, things may go to ruin as thousands or millions die, and there's really nothing I can do about it. Probably all that can bee done if one can't protest or do anything to fight the rise of authoritarianism is to turn to mental health services and therapy. Which usually in such countries are really lacking. I might be a bit more adjusted to it though since my entire life I've lived with a father who talks about how all gay people should be hanged, that black people need to be exterminated to eliminate crime, that women are inferior, that mental illness and disabilities don't really exist, etc. So that sort of stuff has been ever present in my life every single day. And if somehow things get better that's a pleasant surprise.

Sorry to hear that :\

Here's an anecdote regarding mental health service: I once admitted to a psychiatrist that I was feeling down because of what the current government is doing. Her response was: "What are you talking about? We finally have a good government! So many things are changing for the better!"  :o

With Poland...it has a very deep history with the Catholic Church, and I don't know how much the church supports the current leaders.  It stood against the Soviets, but does it stand up for human rights like many individual priests and nuns do in South and Central America?

Eh, not really. Actually - not just "not really", more like "not at all". Polish Catholic church - at least the hierarchy - seems to be quite satisfied with the current government. Some of the bishops are supporting the ruling party quite openly... I recall one archbishop who was speaking against it - but he died not too long ago. Aside from him, I don't think I've heard any voices of dissent - if anything, our bishops seem to be currently joining in the government's anti-LGBT campaign. We have all those archbishops who preach about the threat of "LGBT ideology", about a "flood of deviancy coming from the West" etc. They claim they don't support anti-LGBT violence - but they certainly stir up the anti-LGBT sentiment. Aside from that, they also tried to pressure the current government into instituting the total ban on abortions...  So, no - the Church hierarchy doesn't defend the human rights and freedom at all (unless we're speaking of religious freedoms of the Catholic taken to the extreme, like the supposed right of pharmacists not to fulfil the patients' prescriptions for contraceptives etc.).

The Polish Catholic church is sick, IMHO - not only the hierarchy, but also some of the individual priests. For example, the monks at the Jasna Góra monastery are quite supportive of the gatherings openly nationalist groups conduct there, which include public hatemongering, marches with torches etc. Ugh. Another example of the mentality of portions of Polish clergy is here, in this FB post at the official profile of a Polish Franciscan publishing house:

(warning: child photo!)

https://www.facebook.com/wydawnictwo.niepokalanow/photos/a.316954285036840/2486653751400205/

The quote under the photo is Proverbs 31:10 and it seems to extoll the virtues of the "noble character" of the girl... which is displayed by her bearing a machine gun.  :o When some people started making a stink about it in the comments, the Franciscans from that publishing house started claiming that "there's nothing wrong about guns", that "pacifism isn't a Christian notion" etc. Insane...

[Tolvo]

It's sadly pretty standard for Catholicism. Individual Catholics can be very fine, but the organization is generally awful with a long history of genocide and destruction. There's a reason why in very Catholic areas violence against queer and trans people surge whenever the Pope speaks of the evils of either.

[Beorning]

On a related note: on Thursday, one of our most visible archbishops, Marek Jędraszewski, delivered a sermon where he mentioned that Poland is being threatened by a "neo-Marxist rainbow plague". He also compared this "rainbow plague" to "the red plague" of Communism...

All this after the recent happenings in Białystok... I can't help wondering: is Jędraszewski są disconnected from the current social reality that he doesn't realize the danger such language creates for LGBT people? Or, maybe, he doesn't care?

A point of note: Archibishop Jędraszewski may be hard on LGBT people, but he's certainly not hard on Church-related child abuse. A few months ago, during an official press conference of Polish bishops regarding the topics, he said that the Church must be merciful toward child abusers and pray for them. Later, on another Catholic conference, he defended Australia's Cardinal Pell (who has been found guilty of child molestation) as victim of the persecution of Christians...

[Skynet]

On a related note: on Thursday, one of our most visible archbishops, Marek Jędraszewski, delivered a sermon where he mentioned that Poland is being threatened by a "neo-Marxist rainbow plague". He also compared this "rainbow plague" to "the red plague" of Communism...

All this after the recent happenings in Białystok... I can't help wondering: is Jędraszewski są disconnected from the current social reality that he doesn't realize the danger such language creates for LGBT people? Or, maybe, he doesn't care?

A point of note: Archibishop Jędraszewski may be hard on LGBT people, but he's certainly not hard on Church-related child abuse. A few months ago, during an official press conference of Polish bishops regarding the topics, he said that the Church must be merciful toward child abusers and pray for them. Later, on another Catholic conference, he defended Australia's Cardinal Pell (who has been found guilty of child molestation) as victim of the persecution of Christians...

It seems to be a commonality among fundamentalist conservatives, strangely. I have to wonder the mental justifications going through someone's mind to see two grown men having sex as a crime against humanity but can justify raping little kids.

[Alhanna]

I have written about it before, so let me apologize beforehand if I'm getting boring, annoying or otherwise excessively negative... It's just that I need to get it out of my chest.

Basically: how the heck do you deal with living in a country that spiraling toward authoritarianism? With said country being, in my case, Poland?

JFC, I didn't know it was that bad. :(

It looks like me getting a Polish Passport via my grandmother will only be a formality to justify a trip to better EU countries and not an actual stay in Poland!

I swear, we Americans hear so little of this... unless we do some deep digging in the media. (Not that we don't have some serious problems of our own.)

Stay safe, Beorning.

[Beorning]

I posted this over at the News thread, but it's worth repeating here - a government-related scandal that just went off in Poland:

https://www.tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english,157,m/polish-deputy-minister-resigns-over-judge-trolling-scandal,962560.html

Basically, it turns out the Deputy Minister of Justice was personally orchestrating a smear campaign against about 20 judges that opposed the current government's judiciary reforms. "Smear campaign", as in: having a troll send out e-mails and anonymous letters to various judges and their colleagues, accusing them of various dirt. The troll supposedly received donations from some Ministry of Justice employees to compensate for her expenses - and there are also hints she also received a regular payment for her services. If anything, the Deputy Minister was senting the woman personal details of the judges (like e-mail and home addresses) and was advising the woman on what kind of smear to use, as well as whom to send these letters so. He also promised the woman legal immunity: at one time, the woman expressed fear of being prosecuted for her actions and the Deputy Minister assured her that "we don't arrest people for doing good deeds".

The Deputy Minister resigned and the PiS government claims that matter is closed.  ::) Opposition politicians, as well as prominent members of the judges' community, point out that it might be just the beginning of the scandal, as it quite improbable that the Minister of Justice himself didn't know about his deputy's actions. Especially as the Deputy Minister stated in his communication to the troll that he was forwarding her work's results to "the boss"...

Nice, huh? That's the kind of country Poland has become under the PiS government...

[Bezukhov]

That's an interesting subject, Beorning! Living in Italy (and having lived lived in France until recently), I can say we're probably not quite there yet, but things are evolving in a rather disturbing way in both countries.

Is the supposedly anti-EU stance still a thing in Polish government?

[Beorning]

Is the supposedly anti-EU stance still a thing in Polish government?

Oh, of course. Not that they admit it currently... Recently (especially since the latest EU parliament campaign) PiS started claiming they absolutely love the EU. It's just a smokescreen, though - they want to counter the opposition that accuses them of wanting to cause a Polexit.

The truth is that PiS really does dislike the EU. I'd say their stance toward it could be summed up as "Give us your money and stay away". Basically, they treat the EU as an ATM, aren't really interested in active participation in it and are really furious whenever the Union reminds them of Poland's obligations of any kind or tries to intervene on behalf of the rule of law (which is really threatened right now due to the PiS government's actions).

[LostInTheMist]

It's frustrating, honestly, living in the U.S. since it's always been kind of a dismissive "it can't happen here" sort of point of view, and yet more and more we're seeing a strong executive branch, an ineffective legislature and a judicial branch that is more and more right wing, granting more and more authority to the executive branch. The executive's constant attacks on journalists, either charging them as being fake news or even actively asking if it is treasonous for them to criticize him, and the xenophobic attitude towards immigrants that is becoming more and more evident by the day, including the creation of concentration camps at the border where children are still being ripped from their parents arms. New news reports that the President is ending the immigrant exception that allows critically ill immigrants who desperately need medical care to receive it. This is literally a death sentence to some of them.

Everyone is banking on the 2020 election at the moment, but at least for me it's an open question of if the current President would step down in January 2021 if the election went against him, particularly if it were a close one, and what would happen then.

People think this is paranoia, but I really think it's a reasonable concern that we could be headed to a Russian-style plutocratic state, or a white-supremacist dominated fascist state.