UFOlogy

[Beorning]

(I'm not entirely sure where a topic like fits - here, Elliquiy U, PROC? Mods, feel free to move it if needed...)

When I was a kid in the elementary school (it was in the 80s), I got introduced - by the way of the books, as well as the Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World TV show - to the subject of UFOs and related subjects, like the Ancient Astronauts theory and the Bermuda Triangle mystery. They immediately captured my imagination... I kept reading about this stuff later on, when I was a teen. And, as I was a teen in the 90s, I've had great time - UFOs were the subject of shows in serious TV channels like Discovery, there was this huge Alien Autopsy controversy, Roswell seemed to be mentioned everywhere... also, we got TV shows like The X-Files and Dark Skies. Overall, UFOs were *big* in the 90s.

As I grew older, my interest faded, as I started to critically evaluate all this stuff and came to realize that it was, well, bogus. The Internet surely helped, as I found really interesting stuff in there, like the sceptical follow-ups to the Alien Autopsy documentary which revealed it as a hoax. I also learned of how the myth of the Bermuda Triangle and the story of Roswell came to be and so on... Overall, I stopped believing in this stuff. And the general public's interest seemed to decline, too.

These days, I don't believe in UFOs, either. As they years rolled on and the aliens weren't coming, and I came to realize that, if they were real, we'd have *some* proof of them by now. Meanwhile, there seems to be even fewer and fewer *clues* - no new sightings, no new photographs (that aren't obvious fakes). Even the conspiracy theorist on the Internet seem to be more concerned with their Illuminati / New World Order scares than with the aliens.

Out of simple curiosity, I'd like to ask: is the field of ufology dead? Has it been debunked completely? Or, maybe, are there some new sightings and other happenings still being reported that I'm just not aware of?

[Mathim]

Well, what I've read is that, should there have been foreign spacecraft anywhere near our planet, there would be energy signals and the like that we would be able to detect, and no such things have been detected. It makes sense, of course, so I'm inclined to believe that we've been left to our own devices by any and all intelligent life that did not arise from our own little speck of cosmic dust. Not that I don't love the Ancient Astronauts theory, it makes more sense than us just pulling religion out of our asses, but as to its credibility, I think it's pretty much debunked. That's not to say there are no lifeforms on other planets-that is statistically very unlikely. But as to their ability to travel interstellar distances with technology that dwarfs our own? Well, the odds are probably only slightly different than the probability of just plain existence, but whether they want to go anywhere near our crazy-ass planet...I surely wouldn't blame them for giving us a wide berth.

[Far eyes]

I would say it has a very basic problem of there being a lot of crackpots in it.

There is also some problem with our ability to spot/identify correctly something. Any space craft that could travel here from even out closest star would have a massive technological advantage. I am not sure how well a bunch of Greek Philosophers would do at trying to identify and quantify correctly if a modern Jet Fighter was to flash over there city at low altitude brake the sound barrier and then leave.

Or how sure i am that we could identify communication, i mean its assuming a whole hell of a lot. 

   

[AmberStarfire]

I think if aliens were sufficiently technologically advanced, UFOs might not be limited to our own particular laws of space-time. I would view the difference as being a dimensional one, but that might not be the most precise way to explain it. Only that we might be limiting the possibilities by limiting the definition to the 3 dimensional (4 including time) physical world. I also think UFOs might not necessarily imply aliens. There could be many different types of unidentified flying objects (they may have different sources).

Sightings still happen. You see them cropping up on the likes of Youtube sometimes, and there have been one or two reports on the news that looked interesting.

[Sabby]

I used to be a full blown conspiracy theorist. I just soaked up any and all information about ghosts, aliens, cryptids, other dimensions... if it was strange and had a single voice conveying it, it was in my mind. Things like David Icke were not even the strangest.

Thankfully, I'm recovered. I couldn't tell you where the change happened, but lets just say my understanding of rationalism and skepticism grew over the years, and once you question one belief, the others can go as well.

Right now, I'm of the opinion that life on other planets most certainly exists in some way, and that intelligent, technologically advanced life forms already exist in the universe. They're called humans. We're proof that 'aliens' aren't impossible. The question is and always has been have we encountered them, and we simply do not have enough information on that.

Do I think we've been visited? I don't know. But I do take issue with many of the arguments against it being the case. Things like 'it's too far to travel', 'what would they possibly want with us?', 'we'd have detected their energy'. I consider these to be arguments from ignorance. If there are visitors in our solar system, we just don't know enough to even point at them, let alone guess the characteristics and limitations of their technology.

[Beorning]

Well, my opinion is that if aliens really were visiting us, we'd have noticed it by now. The idea of an alien craft covertly landing could be believeable a few decades ago, but these days? The world is soaked with technology that would make some sort of believeable observations unevitable. There are way too many people with phones, too many CCTV camers, too many satellites, too many planes in the air...

I mean, we're able to detect *gravity waves* these days. An extraterrestial craft would get noticed, too - especially if there were many of them making repeated visits. I realize that we have no idea what alien technology could be like, still... I just don't buy the idea of undetecable and invisible spaceships flying around the Earth and making themselves conveniently visible to groups of people.

BTW. Stranger than David Icke? Does a thing like that exist? ;)

[Sabby]

I just don't buy the idea of undetecable and invisible spaceships flying around the Earth and making themselves conveniently visible to groups of people.

Why would being open to visitations mean we have to believe those eyewitness testimonies? You're right, it would be strange for aliens to be able to avoid that much technology and still be seen by people just eyeballing them, but I'm not granting that those accounts are accurate. If aliens do visit us, it's entirely possible that first hand accounts are still bullshit.

And yes, David Icke wasn't the strangest. I believed the earth was hollow and had two small suns inside of it that orbited each other. I believed the whole story about Niberu, or 'Planet X', the mobile homeworld of the Annunaki, the lizard gods depicted in ancient Sumeria, who created humanity as a hybrid species of reptile and ape, and instilled in us a desire for gold, and that in 2012 Planet X would pass by us. The radioactive/magnetic tail and wings of gas and debris would strike the planet as it passed, disable all technology, and allow them to raid us of our gold reserves, which was a precious resource to them. I believed that Atlantis existed, that Jupiter was inhabited by a civilization of avian humanoids and Greys, and that switching vibrational frequencies could allow travel to that version of reality. I believed JFK was assassinated because he had in his possession a disc found on the moon that contained a message from the Greys, expressing disappointment in our progress as a species.

So, yeah, I was kind of an idiot. My brother is actually worse than this. I would highly recommend watching Spirit Science, or a good review series of it, to see the kind of nuttery he buys into. Martymers WDPLASS series is a great one.

[Beorning]

Why would being open to visitations mean we have to believe those eyewitness testimonies? You're right, it would be strange for aliens to be able to avoid that much technology and still be seen by people just eyeballing them, but I'm not granting that those accounts are accurate. If aliens do visit us, it's entirely possible that first hand accounts are still bullshit.

Ah, but I was strictly referring to these eyewitness testimonies that conform to the typical UFO mythos. I agree that, in theory, aliens could be some highly-evolved beings that cross the timespace unnoticed due to really advanced tech. But if we're talking about the typical UFO notions (flying saucers, the Greys etc.), then they just doesn't fly in today's world. If we were able to get occassional photographs of these UFOs in the 50s or 60s, then in today's world such alien activity would get completely exposed...

And yes, David Icke wasn't the strangest. I believed the earth was hollow and had two small suns inside of it that orbited each other. I believed the whole story about Niberu, or 'Planet X', the mobile homeworld of the Annunaki, the lizard gods depicted in ancient Sumeria, who created humanity as a hybrid species of reptile and ape, and instilled in us a desire for gold, and that in 2012 Planet X would pass by us. The radioactive/magnetic tail and wings of gas and debris would strike the planet as it passed, disable all technology, and allow them to raid us of our gold reserves, which was a precious resource to them. I believed that Atlantis existed, that Jupiter was inhabited by a civilization of avian humanoids and Greys, and that switching vibrational frequencies could allow travel to that version of reality. I believed JFK was assassinated because he had in his possession a disc found on the moon that contained a message from the Greys, expressing disappointment in our progress as a species.

You know, that's actually a pretty good storyline for an RP :)

So, yeah, I was kind of an idiot. My brother is actually worse than this. I would highly recommend watching Spirit Science, or a good review series of it, to see the kind of nuttery he buys into. Martymers WDPLASS series is a great one.

I'll take a look, then ;)

[Sabby]

Ah, but I was strictly referring to these eyewitness testimonies that conform to the typical UFO mythos. I agree that, in theory, aliens could be some highly-evolved beings that cross the timespace unnoticed due to really advanced tech. But if we're talking about the typical UFO notions (flying saucers, the Greys etc.), then they just doesn't fly in today's world. If we were able to get occassional photographs of these UFOs in the 50s or 60s, then in today's world such alien activity would get completely exposed...

Not necessarily. Technology being super advanced doesn't outright imply being all encompassing. Lets say that their advancements in long range travel made them undetectable to our instruments. Them being undetectable to simple human observation or photography doesn't necessarily follow. I hate to drag video game plots into this, but I'm reminded of a scene in Mass Effect 2. The Normandy, Commander Sheperds ship, was capable of hiding itself completely from any scanning technology by literally holding in any heat or emissions it made for a limited time. It had to vent them eventually, of course. The problem was, sometimes they ran the risk of being seen out a window.

I do agree that it seems far fetched a species capable of travel that defies our limitations of physics wouldn't also be able to hide itself from simple view, but technology can take really uneven paths.

You know, that's actually a pretty good storyline for an RP :)

Funnily enough, I started reading a scifi book series that had much of the same stuff, word for word, after I stopped believing this nonsense. It was kind of funny. It's the Outlanders series, by James Axler, if you're interested. It's about 100 books in (Yes, I'm serious) and the first 50 were adapted (amazingly) by Graphic Audio, though I'm not sure if it's still available. It's not in my region.

I'll take a look, then ;)

If you only ever have time for one video, make it this one. You'll get the most concentrated dose. Jordons particular flavor of conspiracy nonsense involves a lot more new age stuff, like sacred geometry and chakras and such, which was never a part of my beliefs, though my brother buys it hook, line and sinker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMHos7BcG0g

Jews Aliens do feature heavily in this one, so I hope it's not too much of a digression.

[Far eyes]

Well technically we are already experimenting with crude versions of visual stealth, and i do not mean classic camouflage that has been around since well ww2 more or less in a military sense.

[Beorning]

I do agree that it seems far fetched a species capable of travel that defies our limitations of physics wouldn't also be able to hide itself from simple view, but technology can take really uneven paths.

Hm, maybe. Still, as you said: it's far fetched.

Funnily enough, I started reading a scifi book series that had much of the same stuff, word for word, after I stopped believing this nonsense. It was kind of funny. It's the Outlanders series, by James Axler, if you're interested. It's about 100 books in (Yes, I'm serious) and the first 50 were adapted (amazingly) by Graphic Audio, though I'm not sure if it's still available. It's not in my region.

Interesting! I'll take a look :)

If you only ever have time for one video, make it this one. You'll get the most concentrated dose. Jordons particular flavor of conspiracy nonsense involves a lot more new age stuff, like sacred geometry and chakras and such, which was never a part of my beliefs, though my brother buys it hook, line and sinker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMHos7BcG0g

Jews Aliens do feature heavily in this one, so I hope it's not too much of a digression.

Wow. Now that are some interesting theories...  ;D You say people believe that?

[AmberStarfire]

I've actually seen the video before that he refers to/debunks. One of my friends on Elliquiy sent it to me.

[Beorning]

I just took a peek at another of his videos, one about the Moon. A claim was made there that the Moon is artificial and hollow inside...

[Sabby]

I just took a peek at another of his videos, one about the Moon. A claim was made there that the Moon is artificial and hollow inside...

Yeah, a lot of those videos are more mystical than scifi. Aliens are usually involved, just not in the typical fashion. Higher beings, vibrational levels and such, Christ Consciousness. I know way too much about this x.x

[Lady Shadow]

I have huge fan of Ufology for many years. I too, was big into it in the 90s. I have many theories of my own that would be considered "crackpot" but its my belief. I believe the human race is advanced yes, but I believe we got help. That may be farfetched and a bit crazy but I don't think how we evolved is just "evolution"

I think we have been visited, and they are long gone. If they were to travel back and forth it would take a long time to do so if "light speed" really isn't a thing. But as far as them showing up now? I think they want to be remain hidden.

I don't care about what anyone thinks though, I rather just look up the stars and dream...let the world be cynical and skeptical, there is sure enough of that already.