What do we all think of Bioshock infinite ending then? (WARNING: Spoilers)

[DarkShadow]

You know what.. one word from me Game of the Year ending. I know that there are many more decent games to come but that ending was just such a shock.

[Inkidu]

It was a good deconstruction for story-telling, but it doesn't have the same punch as the failing of ultra-objectivism Bioshock.
I figured they were doing something like it with the trans-dimensional tear thingy.

It was still a good ending, and it's probably the best use of Schrodinger's Cat in recent media.

[DarkShadow]

Oh I loved it I mean in order of how I liked the games I feel that one came first then Bioshock then Bishock 2, to be honest number two had no story I feel, It was rather boring but number one when you find out you are being controlled that was a good twist to it also.

[Chris Brady]

The problem of the Ending for me is that...  I means nothing.  Booker's sacrifice is meaningless.

Elizabeth said it:  There will always be a man, a city and a light house.

So in the end, they choose the coward's way out and nothing changes.

[Inkidu]

Oh I loved it I mean in order of how I liked the games I feel that one came first then Bioshock then Bishock 2, to be honest number two had no story I feel, It was rather boring but number one when you find out you are being controlled that was a good twist to it also.

Two's got a story, it's basically what if objectivism was pure socialism. It wouldn't have been bad if it weren't in Rapture.

All though the order of the games is irrelevant.

Also, I like to think that Bioshock Infinite has a happy ending, it might seem a downer at first but if you think about it. There has to be one reality where the Choice never had to be made in the first place and Booker gets to live his life with his daughter.

[Geeklet]

The problem of the Ending for me is that...  I means nothing.  Booker's sacrifice is meaningless.

Elizabeth said it:  There will always be a man, a city and a light house.

So in the end, they choose the coward's way out and nothing changes.

There may always be a man, a city, and a lighthouse, but as they were in Rapture at one point, it shows that that man is not always Booker, and the City is not always Columbia. So by Booker's sacrifice, every single universe where Comstock existed never was, and at the very end of the game, shows a universe where there was never a choice, and Booker is still in New York, still with his daughter.

[CmdrRenegade]

Overall, I liked the game and liked the ending.  However, I do miss the philosophical deconstructions of Bioshock 1 and 2.  It was still a crazy ride and I'll definitely be playing it again and recommending it to others. 

[Chris Brady]

Overall, I liked the game and liked the ending.  However, I do miss the philosophical deconstructions of Bioshock 1 and 2.  It was still a crazy ride and I'll definitely be playing it again and recommending it to others.

And that's the problem I have with BI.  There was no choice, there was no twist, it was all predictable.  It was nothing but a brainless summer blockbuster ride with over the top, extreme violence that we've been seeing since Call of Duty came out and became the God of Shooters.

BI lacked the heart of Bioshock.

[Inkidu]

And that's the problem I have with BI.  There was no choice, there was no twist, it was all predictable.  It was nothing but a brainless summer blockbuster ride with over the top, extreme violence that we've been seeing since Call of Duty came out and became the God of Shooters.

BI lacked the heart of Bioshock.

Not buying it. There's deconstruction there, but it requires you to actually have the knowledge of pure Deconstruction Theory. Perhaps the point behind all the small choices you make is poking fun at the supposedly meaningful binary choices that games tend to tack on nowadays? It sure feels that way to me. Sometimes you don't change things with the little stuff I didn't think it was all predictable. I think a lot of things become obvious in hindsight, but it was hardly predictable.

Also, I'm actually starting to think that anyone who uses Call of Duty as a point of reference to the total decay of the shooter genre or gaming itself is just re-skinning http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodwinsLaw. Seriously, I think CoD of could produce the most awesome story about hero complexes and the remote, removed nature of warfare in this modern day and age while simultaneously making you sympathize with the plight of the post-colonial nations of the world and they'd still fail because hur-hur it's CoD.

That aside, no it's not a mindless shooter, it's deep and thought provoking, and did a thorough job of confounding me at several point. It takes a lot of good jabs at the whole idea of American Exceptionalism.

[Chris Brady]

Inkidu, are you seriously telling me that 'I don't get it' because of what?  I don't know what this 'deconstructionist theory is'?  And how do YOU know that it is?

Because Bioshock was? 

Smacks of elitism to me.

Bioshock has quite a few plot twists, and a major choice.  The most famous of which is:  Would you kindly...

And the famous choice is:  do you harvest the Little Sister or do you let her live?

But in BI the combat was, arena fight, corridor to next arena, corridor to next arena to corridor...

The pacing was too Call of Duty, and violence was gratuitous as if that's the only way they could have sold it.

[Inkidu]

You're comparing the game mechanics of Bioshock Infinite to the story of Bioshock. You've kind of got to do it on an apples-to-apples basis Chris.

I only say pure Deconstruction Theory because that's what it is. As Bioshock was a deconstruction of objectivism that explored issues like stem-cell research. Bioshock Infinite explores the ideas of choice and narrative and the multitude of paths that any given story can take. Rapture is just as much a part of Bioshock Infinite as it is Bioshock. There's always a lighthouse and a man, but you never know how things are going to be different this time around. Infinite sets itself up in defiance of things like superficial moral choices and point A B paths. In many ways the Would You Kindly and Infinite have just as much to do with each other. Booker is forever thrown into the events of Columbia without his own choice, not really. That's what I think it's exploring.

[Chris Brady]

The combat issue is part of the story issue to me.  It's the pacing of it.  In Bioshock there was a bit more exploration of both Rapture and the themes of Rapture.

In Infinite we're force fed the story one gory spoonful to another, with no time to relax or think on what's happening.

All I'm saying is that Bioshock (which I'm playing after trying out Infinite) is doing it better.

[Inkidu]

The combat issue is part of the story issue to me.  It's the pacing of it.  In Bioshock there was a bit more exploration of both Rapture and the themes of Rapture.

In Infinite we're force fed the story one gory spoonful to another, with no time to relax or think on what's happening.

All I'm saying is that Bioshock (which I'm playing after trying out Infinite) is doing it better.

Actually, I'd argue that the pacing and exploration through the city aren't important in Infinite. Columbia and its politics take a backseat to the Elizabeth-Booker relationship which is probably the best one since Ico. Exploration only matters in how the characters interact with it which would be most of the main story anyway. Though there is that fantastic rendition of "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" (which itself is thematic to the game) that you can hear if you go to a certain place.

Also, it's not Booker's interaction with Columbia (and therefore yours) that is as important, it's Elizabeth's.

[Chris Brady]

Elizabeth is another bone of contention with me.  Everyone claims she's a strong female character, and to me, she's not.  She helps Booker with ammo and change, yes, and she has useful skills, but most of the time, she's...  Like most other video game females.  Window dressing or a plot machination.  Especially when the bad guys completely ignore this cute, unarmed little doll dashing around the battlefield, and I don't mean whenever it's a long riange fight, no, they'll run RIGHT PAST HER, in the one spot that her hidey hole doesn't cover, and they don't act like she actually exists.

She's nothing new to the world of gaming.  Hell, she's even busty and displaying cleavage the entire time, she's nothing more than an ammo/cash dispensing machine wrapped in eye candy.

[Geeklet]

Would you rather she had a health bar and the enemies could interact with and potentially kill her, turning the entire game into one giant escort mission?

[Chris Brady]

Not really.  And I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is that she's not really different than all the other Video Game girls and she's not something special or new.

The only difference between her and most other sidekick females is that she's not romantically interested in Booker.

But that's not unique to her.  Booker isn't interested romantically in her either.

If anything we should be praising the story for not shoving another forced romance on us in gaming.  Not that Elizabeth is special or whatever.

[Inkidu]

Elizabeth is another bone of contention with me.  Everyone claims she's a strong female character, and to me, she's not.  She helps Booker with ammo and change, yes, and she has useful skills, but most of the time, she's...  Like most other video game females.  Window dressing or a plot machination.  Especially when the bad guys completely ignore this cute, unarmed little doll dashing around the battlefield, and I don't mean whenever it's a long riange fight, no, they'll run RIGHT PAST HER, in the one spot that her hidey hole doesn't cover, and they don't act like she actually exists.

She's nothing new to the world of gaming.  Hell, she's even busty and displaying cleavage the entire time, she's nothing more than an ammo/cash dispensing machine wrapped in eye candy.

She's strong, but in a way that's realistic. Asking someone to kill you rather than face imprisonment is something I don't think I could do. Also, even though it's a text-book abusive relationships, her killing Songbird is perhaps the strongest thing a women in her situation can do. Not only is she killing something she loves deeply, but she's also symbolically breaking away from the abusive relationship. Sadly, this is something not many women do, and more need to do.

She actually grows. She's not out to prove she's a bad ass, she doesn't have to compete with one of the guys. She just has to deal which is something not everyone can do. Also, if you're thinking about the ways she can help you in game as the major part of the relationship then you're probably not looking deep enough.

In point of fact, I read someone's comment soon after release and it went something like this:

She finds you ammo, she gets you health and salts, she revives you when you die most of the time. Let's face it it's Elizabeth's game and she's got to escort you.