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Author Topic: Trump  (Read 124066 times)

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Offline Arianna

Re: Trump
« Reply #2475 on: December 25, 2017, 01:26:58 PM »

Offline Verasaille

Re: Trump
« Reply #2476 on: December 25, 2017, 05:39:41 PM »
This was kind of funny, and I got a chuckle out of it. Was going to post it in the 'giggles' thread, but thought maybe you all could use a laugh.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/12/25/a-gift-wrapped-package-of-poo-why-a-man-left-a-box-of-manure-for-steven-mnuchin/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.f4f758c28dc5

Offline Various

Re: Trump
« Reply #2477 on: December 25, 2017, 10:57:32 PM »
Gah! Better:

Trump thinks he has reclaimed the "Merry Christmas" greeting for the USA from some ban by the PC crowd.

 ::)   :D

Read in an article that pointed out that this is an insidious and specific soft-core dog whistle to white/Christian nationalists because people who celebrate anything else or nothing at all aren't supposed to be part of the American fabric.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #2478 on: December 26, 2017, 09:57:06 AM »
Read in an article that pointed out that this is an insidious and specific soft-core dog whistle to white/Christian nationalists because people who celebrate anything else or nothing at all aren't supposed to be part of the American fabric.
It's either that, or Trump really believes that Obama never said Merry Christmas. Trump's first instinct seems to be to attack everything Obama did and do the exact reverse of it, and Trump probably still believes that Obama is a Kenia-born Muslim. Sometimes what Trump does may allign well with what his base feels, but that doesn't necessarily mean what he says is the result of clever political calculation. Yes, the end result may be the same, but with Trump I sometimes think we might assume his motivations are more intelligent than they really are. Perhaps we shouldn't read too much cleverness into his actions when malice or temper tantrums can explain his actions just as easily.

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Trump
« Reply #2479 on: December 26, 2017, 10:14:03 AM »
It could be somewhere in the middle - he does seem to be keenly aware of what things his supporters like to hear, since saying them brings him praise. He could very well know that people like hearing him say stuff like that without understanding the deeper subtleties in why they like it.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2480 on: December 26, 2017, 10:35:25 AM »
He is a person who very clearly demonstrates the need for approval from others; this seems to drive his actions more than any other personality flaw he has.  There's no subtlety in him, and there's a reason why psychiatrists have broken their unspoken rule and decided to point out his flaws that are incredibly dangerous in a world leader.

Offline Arianna

Re: Trump
« Reply #2481 on: December 26, 2017, 12:26:01 PM »
He is a person who very clearly demonstrates the need for approval from others; this seems to drive his actions more than any other personality flaw he has.  There's no subtlety in him, and there's a reason why psychiatrists have broken their unspoken rule and decided to point out his flaws that are incredibly dangerous in a world leader.

Absolutely agree to this.

Offline Various

Re: Trump
« Reply #2482 on: December 28, 2017, 06:32:06 AM »
Not strictly Trump, but a guy he full-throatedly endorsed, so I suppose it counts.

Moore is challenging the results of the special election. The article I read paraphrased his lawyers:

Quote
In the complaint, Moore's attorneys noted the higher than expected turnout in the race, particularly in Jefferson County, and said that Moore's numbers were suspiciously low in about 20 Jefferson County precincts.

They turned out BECAUSE of him, and not in the positive sense. They saw a man who was accused (with a mountain of evidence to back it up) of touching children and voted in droves against him. They saw a man who believes that the post-Bill of Rights amendments are superfluous. That people would be inclined to vote against a man who therefore believes slavery ought to be allowed and that there should be no federal protections for voters denied that right because of "race, color, or previous condition of servitude" or for having ovaries, or that poll taxes should explicitly come back (and not just in fig leaf 'voter ID') seems surprising to him.

That Republicans of conscious could not vote for such a man and stayed home is somehow voter fraud.

I'm sure that the human horror show occupying the White House embraced him when he's 50-50 in fucking ALABAMA didn't help him either.

Offline Various

Re: Trump
« Reply #2483 on: December 28, 2017, 06:33:42 AM »
Conscience. I blame being up since four. Generally one must be awake and aware to move a felt pen across a piece of paper.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #2484 on: December 29, 2017, 01:07:39 PM »
Not strictly Trump, but a guy he full-throatedly endorsed, so I suppose it counts.

Moore is challenging the results of the special election.
The motion got denied, i.e. Moore failed in court. See here for the MSNBC tweet on it (including the one page order of the judge) and the Atlantic for a bit more on the case.

Also note that the case is dismissed "with prejudice". My understanding is that in a civil case like this, "with prejudice" means that the case can not be brought again. I suspect there might still be a way to apeal, procedural matters like that being out of my sphere of knowledge, but a former judge like Moore should realize that this case is pretty much over and done with. Then again... when did Roy Moore actually care about the law?

Online Regina Minx

Re: Trump
« Reply #2485 on: December 29, 2017, 01:10:44 PM »
The hilarity of a former Alabama Supreme Court Justice filing a motion with the incorrect court is not lost on me.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #2486 on: December 29, 2017, 01:46:33 PM »
The hilarity of a former Alabama Supreme Court Justice filing a motion with the incorrect court is not lost on me.
I am not sure if the venue was the problem. Alabama Code 17-16-44 specifies:
Quote
No jurisdiction exists in or shall be exercised by any judge or court to entertain any proceeding for ascertaining the legality, conduct, or results of any election, except so far as authority to do so shall be specially and specifically enumerated and set down by statute; ...
I could be very wrong here, but my impression is that the court denied the motion because it failed to specify the relevant "authority set down in statute..." that would give the court authority to decide the case. Moore's (or rather his lawyers') motion is very strong on allegations, but very thin on legal substance. (And yes, I did read it. Gave me a few good laughs inbetween shaking my head in disbelief.  ;D)

If I were a cynic - and I guess I must be to come up with the thought - I would say Moore just threw this out so he can claim "the courts stole my victory" next time he runs for office.

Online Regina Minx

Re: Trump
« Reply #2487 on: December 29, 2017, 02:14:38 PM »
Right: 17-16-44 bans any court or judge from contesting, halting, or decertifying an election unless another statute exist allowing it. The statute that allows that is Section 17-16-21...but that only allows people seeking recounts to be those “with standing to contest the election under Sections 17-16-40 and 17-16-47.”

And if you look at those sections, they do not allow candidates for federal office to request such a recount or to contest the election (presumably because these would be done in the U.S. House or Senate.)

Under 40, the ones who can contest are: “The election of any person declared elected to the office of Governor, Secretary of State, Auditor, Treasurer, Attorney General, Commissioner of Agriculture and Industries, Public Service Commissioner, senator or representative in the Legislature (that is, STATE senators and representatives, not federal ones), justices of the Supreme Court, judges of the courts of appeals, judge of the circuit court or district court, or any office which is filled by the vote of a single county, or to the office of constable.”

Section 47 only allows a contest “of any person declared to be elected to the office of senator or representative in the Legislature (STATE senators and representatives, not federal ones), judge of the circuit court or district court, any office which is filled by the vote of a single county, or constable.”

Moore is not those.  Since he doesn't apply under existing statutes, the state law of Alabama doesn't let him contest the results in state court. And being a lawyer and former judge, you would think he'd know that and filed his lawsuit with the correct court (I'm sure there are federal courts where it would be appropriate, but I don't want to research this already more than I already have).

Offline Orval Wintermute

Re: Trump
« Reply #2488 on: December 30, 2017, 04:14:41 AM »
I think his Orangeness was trying to break a World Record https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/29/in-a-30-minute-interview-president-trump-made-24-false-or-misleading-claims

Personal favorite has to be this one.
Quote
I was for Strange, and I brought Strange up 20 points. Just so you understand. When I endorsed him, he was in fifth place. He went way up. Almost 20 points.
There were only 3 people in the race but Trump's support brought Strange up from 5th place.

Offline Cassandra LeMay

Re: Trump
« Reply #2489 on: December 30, 2017, 06:25:25 AM »
...
And if you look at those sections, they do not allow candidates for federal office to request such a recount or to contest the election (presumably because these would be done in the U.S. House or Senate.)

...(I'm sure there are federal courts where it would be appropriate, but I don't want to research this already more than I already have).
Thank you.  :-) That does clarify matters. I must admit I didn't delve that far into the Alabama Code.

Far as I can determine, the only venue for Moore would, indeed, be a complaint to the Senate itself, under the Federal Contested Elections Act, given that the Constitution (Art 1, Section 5) states that each House shall be the judge of its own elections, the procedure for such "judgement" laid out in the FCEA. I suppose it might be possible for the Senate to delegate authority for judging such matters to state courts, but it seems it never did so.

Guess now we'll just have to wait a month and see if Moore files a petition with the Clerk of the House of Representatives. It wouldn't be a smart thing to do IMO, for two reasons: (i) His claim doesn't have much substance, and (ii) if this went all the way it would come down to a vote in the Senate, and I doubt there are all that many Senators, even among Republicans, who would be willing to hand the victory to a candidate as toxic as Moore. Then again, Moore doesn't seem to have much common sense. (Part of me actually hopes he tries to file under the FCEA, given how rarely one gets an opportunity to watch a proceeding like that.)

Offline Oniya

Re: Trump
« Reply #2490 on: December 30, 2017, 12:29:48 PM »
I think his Orangeness was trying to break a World Record https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/12/29/in-a-30-minute-interview-president-trump-made-24-false-or-misleading-claims

Personal favorite has to be this one. There were only 3 people in the race but Trump's support brought Strange up from 5th place.

'One... Two... Five!'
'Three, sir, three!'

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2491 on: December 30, 2017, 01:09:33 PM »
'One... Two... Five!'
'Three, sir, three!'

 :D

I'm almost hoping this guy goes unequivocally senile soon, so clearly senile that it will offer a case for urgent removal of him from the office.  O:)

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Trump
« Reply #2492 on: December 30, 2017, 01:17:44 PM »
:D

I'm almost hoping this guy goes unequivocally senile soon, so clearly senile that it will offer a case for urgent removal of him from the office.  O:)
How would we notice?

Offline Oniya

Re: Trump
« Reply #2493 on: December 30, 2017, 01:29:08 PM »
How would we notice?

When we see him squinting to read the teleprompter that only says 'I, Donald Trump'.

Offline gaggedLouise

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2494 on: December 30, 2017, 01:48:21 PM »
How would we notice?

When he tells the Pope: "Cardinal Spellman, you are fired!" :D

Offline Various

Re: Trump
« Reply #2495 on: December 30, 2017, 04:54:38 PM »
So the tin pot dictator did a survey. The omitted section is highlighted in red.

How would you rate President Trump's first year in office (2017)?
(O) Great
(O) Good
(O) Okay
(O) Poor
(O) Other

How would you rate President Obama's first year in office (2009)?
(O) Great
(O) Good
(O) Okay
(O) Poor
(O) Other

It reminds me of Hitler's reelection ballots in a history book in high school that they showed where the only OPTION was "Yes".

Offline TheGlyphstone

Re: Trump
« Reply #2496 on: December 30, 2017, 04:55:38 PM »
So the tin pot dictator did a survey. The omitted section is highlighted in red.

How would you rate President Trump's first year in office (2017)?
(O) Great
(O) Good
(O) Okay
(O) Poor
(O) Other

How would you rate President Obama's first year in office (2009)?
(O) Great
(O) Good
(O) Okay
(O) Poor
(O) Other

It reminds me of Hitler's reelection ballots in a history book in high school that they showed where the only OPTION was "Yes".

Where was this? Twitter?

Offline Various

Re: Trump
« Reply #2497 on: December 30, 2017, 05:01:10 PM »

Offline TheHighwayHitman

Re: Trump
« Reply #2498 on: December 30, 2017, 09:26:33 PM »
Is anybody here not ashamed to say that Donald Trump is the president?  Or is that a cardinal sin in these parts? I didn't vote for him, but I do sincerely like him better than Obama, Bernie, and Hillary.

He has no tact. I get it. He's a sledgehammer. Sometimes he smashes a mirror. Sometimes he smashes a door. Sometimes he smashes a puppy. Sometimes he smashes a rock, like he's supposed too. Every politician is useless. If they actually had any value, they wouldn't be politicians. I'm okay with a sledgehammer that occasionally breaks things it isn't supposed too. To me that's infinitely better than a weasil lying to your face, stealing when your back is turned, and then knifing you in the throat with tears in their eyes and a smile on their lips.

But, I also am the Ben Shapiro sort of right winger. As I said on my introduction, I am completely okay getting mean and nasty right back with people who want to go there. I'm also a Dave Ruben fan, and would be a liberal in the classical sense of the word. But I can't be anymore. In many ways, I've been pushed to the right side of the isle by the left. I don't buy the media. I loathe censorship. I detest mental illnesses and this strange phenomenon going on where everybody under the sun has one and it's okay. I cannot stand it when people do not accept responsibility OR consequences for their actions, and I absolutely want the least amount of rules, regulations, and government getting in my way or interfering in my life as possible.

I've recently watched Firefly and Serenity, and Malcolm Reynolds said two things that were like giant light bulbs for me that I completely agree with.

"Thats what governments are for, to get in a man's way."
"I just want to be left alone and go on my merry way."

Do I resonate with anybody in this thread? Or is this just a place to trash the American president? I'd like to find at least a few people with similar thoughts and beliefs as me to carry on with around here. :)

Offline Fury Aphrodisia

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Re: Trump
« Reply #2499 on: December 30, 2017, 09:55:50 PM »
I'm sure you'll eventually find people who do agree with you, no matter where on Elliquiy you find yourself.

However, I'm equally certain that if you come out swinging aggressively, you're going to find that there are people that take that badly, long before a kindred spirit. While I appreciate you sharing your point of view, I might suggest maybe not being hostile pre-emptively to everyone else. There are even some who might have felt the way you do, but are unwilling to lend their support based off of those hostilities.