WH40000 - what's your opinion?

[wander]

I'll be doing a small test game using Pure Custodes tomorrow. I plan to take notes on each turn so I shall have some opinions to give on the units when I'm next about. It'll be a smaller force than the one I've detailed here most probably.

Oh!
Also on other news, I managed to find and get a hold of the FFG 40k rpg books that are out of print... I am seeking as a player groups mainly for Only War (hoping mainly for a mechanised game in a Chimera for this one, either Cadians or current fluff Armageddon regiment tweaked to have a Chimera) and/or Rogue Trader atm.
I still wish to play a Nurglite in Black Crusade and now I have supplements to Deathwatch I wouldn't mind giving that another spin too for old time's sakes.

[Cold Heritage]

I finished reading Dark Imperium. I was pleased that it did not go Full Matt Ward, but I was left with one inescapable conclusion:

Nurgle is the worst. He's just so gross. All of his stuff is gross.

Khorne is fine. Blood and skulls. They even put the skulls in a neat pile. Tzeentch's whole "I love it when a plan comes together!"/just as keikaku* *translator's note: keikaku means plan routine gets wearying, but it is not too onerous. And Games Workshop won't let Slaanesh actually get to the level of Space Cocaine memery that I encounter on a daily basis.

In short. I can live with those three. But Nurgle is unrelentingly gross and happy about it. And that's the worst part. There's no shame to it. Except for that one demon. But he's not ashamed that he's gross; he's ashamed that his existence might somehow have made the universe just a little less gross and is trying to compensate by spreading as much grossness as possible.

Everyone needs to go full Salamanders now. Flamers and meltas for all.

[wander]

Bu... But... Nurgle loves you!  XD

As a Death Guard player I am triggered!  :D



As an aside, I took my 50 Power/999pts Pure Custodes Patrol Detachment and did some gaming and they fuckin' dominated the field. The Custodian Guard squads defended two objectives the entire game and I only lost one stormshield dude from them. The Guardian Spears are crap shooting and they never got into melee. Though they HELD THE LINE and that's what I needed them to do.

The real MVP was the Dawneagle Shield-Captain. The salvo-launcher's melta missile was a good enough threat to suppress enemy forces and gain board control, never once needed to advance as 14" movement was good enough to get whereever needed atop of the charging phase. With their Interceptor Lance they managed to wipe out a stealth suit team of three unaided (twice!), scare off a Ghostkeel and even slew Shadowsun.  8-)

The Vertus Praetor Jetbikes were similarly very good. Melta missile thrown out to be anti-tank and the occasional punt with the Hurricane Bolters when not using them to sweep away the blob trash. One single jetbike took out an entire squad of 10 Fire Warriors with a single volley of it's Hurricane Bolter at rapid fire range. A lucky set of rolls, though notable nonetheless!

Finally, deepstruck the 3 Wardens with Castellan Axes down in Turn 3, they immediately fired into the Ghostkeel and got the charge in, playing Monster Hunter versus the thing. Chased it down and slew it, taking only one Warden casualty to make it happen. I love the Castellan Axes.  ;D

A note on the 4pts Misericordia; they look a bit meh on paper, being S5, though they are -2ap, which is awesome balls and you don't realise until enemy saves need to come in. When you're turning Power Armour into Flak Armour t-shirts with a bloody Knife that has the Strength of a Heavy Bolter round... That's badass. Though in the fluff they are literally used as hunting knives against the Chaos Space Marines now, so there's that.  ;D

The Custodes are pretty powerful. Short on CPs, though I sorta don't mind that as I tend to forget I have them in games half the time and choosing strategems and knowing when to use them can be a bit much in the middle of a chaotic battle. Premium points for a premium force. More to come as I fight more battles with them. :)

[Arkaniel]

I experienced similar results, but in the usual 2000 points games here, the custodes lack board control against the more top tier armies. Storming a space marine castle of devastators with a captai nand Lieutenant is suicide as you can’t get enough hard hitting units close enough to hurt them. Melta is also very expensive and so far, I can’t get enough anti vehicle and anti t7 or t8 in my list to make them a versatile enough army for competitive play. The shield captains are good and the -1 to hit banner is awesome, but I need to finetune my list more to be able to dominate in 2000 points games.

It’s the lack of models and cannon fodder that starts doing you in once the enemy has enough points for plentyof las cannons and such. A single roll of one or two on the save and you lose a very expensive model... and I played against someone with twelve las cannons and twenty mixed plasma guns and cannons in his list, not to mention 3 dreadnought.

Thinking of playing more contemporary in my list myself.

[wander]

Yeah, the lack of anti-tank is a bit of a bastard. Though in melee, the Misericordia even put a bit of work in, it's of course getting into melee often that can be an issue. Luckily I find the 2+/4++ and min of 3 wounds on a model helps. Castellan Axes on Wardens are the big way to go if you don't want to overload on salvo-launchers for your Jetbikes (I recommend getting as many Jetbikes as you can though, they're silly OP right now).

Today Warhammer Community put up beta rules for the Forgeworld models from Legio Custodes, I have yet to look (so no opinion on them yet), they're clearly atm marked as for more casual gaming and not the tourney scene, they're basically beta playtest datafiles.

[Arkaniel]

Yes, I read those rules.

The achilleus dreadnought seems a tiny bit overpriced in my opinion, even though it looks good on paper. I have three of them, though you’re only allowed to deploy one. They have the d3 las cannons in their spear. The caladius Grav tanks seems to solve the anti vehicle bit with 8 S8 ap -3 shots I believe if I read it right (only checked it out a minute on my phone).

Yeah, I bought 3 bikes last week and I’m adding 3 more on Thursday. They are good, but still incredibly vulnerable to things like melta, las and missiles or their none marine varieties. A single shot can take out a 80 to 97 point model if you fail a single 4++.

I like the custodes and they’re a pretty decent army for sure, but if you play them in any configuration that can be considered fun or fluff wise correct, they are definitely not top tier for the simple reason they lack the bodies. They just can’t last in full on competitive battles. Every model you lose is big loss in itself. Still dangerous, of course, but due to points cost, you have to limit to three man squads if you want to get a nice pool of command points. I play in a region with a lot of top tier tournament players, so I usually have to battle competitive armies of the Eldar Dark Reaper variety, the Tyranid genestealer turn one charge variety, the grey knight mortal wound spam, the pox walker spam, the dark angel auto cannon dread spam, the roboute lascannon And Grav cannon castle spam... stuff like that. All things custodes are ill equipped to handle, unless you roll far above average for your invulnerable saves.

The caladius might be game changing there.

Of course, you can play shield captain spam with seven or so shield captains on bike and then pool the cheapest imperial guard detachments for lots of CP so you can equip as many relics as possible and can deep strike two warden squads.


Currently, I’m thinking of testing out a list with:

2 shield captains
1 shield captain on bike
2x3 jetbikes
Praetor with the magnifica banner
3x3 custodians
3 contemptors

[wander]

I go Wardens over Contemptor, though I realise you probably got that in due to it's higher Toughness and it's ranged anti-tank.

I highly recommend sticking a stormshield in each Custodian Guard squad, just one for each should cover you... You can direct all the -2ap n' worse shots at that shieldbearer for it's 3++ and the -1ap and 0ap shots at your other dudes (until you fail a save and have to direct all damage onto the injured party of course), which makes them last that lil bit longer (also watch as you lose your friends to that! ^^).
Some people like to take a few stormshields for the security, though I'm not a fan of that... If you do that the sentinel blade is 12" pistol range so you're killing your ranged potential which isn't going to be very good as Guardian Spears are 24" rapid fire 1, which is shit. Trimming down one Guardian Spear away is a bit painful, though if you're suffering keeping the Custodes on the table, the 3++ is worth it for +7pts over a regular spearstodes.

[HairyHeretic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgMDlkg2zv0

[Chrisking777]

Magnus did nothing wrong.

that is all.

[TheLaughingOne]

[Drowdeviant]

Magnus did nothing wrong.

that is all.

Damn straight he didn't! xD

[Cold Heritage]

Magnus did nothing wrong.

that is all.

Damn straight he didn't! xD

[wander]

It's somewhat quiet on the western front for 40k atm, it seems. The Orlocks for Necromunda have been released, with some new tiles and rules to add onto Necromunda games, which is kinda neat.

But then, we got leaks for the upcoming T'au codex, right here... ;)

http://www.3plusplus.net/2018/03/tau-leak-stratagems-warlord-traits-signature-systems-point-values/

[TheGlyphstone]

GW has remembered that xenos exist?

[Idej]

Apparently so lol

Still waiting to see when they release Dark Eldar and Harlequins

And still hoping that they will expand upon the Ynnari some more

Former Tau junky so happy about that codex, but the Ynnari drew me to Eldar.  In particular the Dark Eldar who have joined the Ynnari.

Curious about the Farsight Enclaves and their place in the Tau.  And what the heck is the Startide Nexus.  Is it sad I would like to have it be something like the Mass Relays of Mass Effect?

[Arkaniel]

I want a dark eldar  Codex, too.

The wife wants to play them. We did some games with them, but unfortunately, I’m a far better player and without actual rules, the dark eldar just can’t handle an average marine army. They have no staying power whatsoever and basic marines are basically their complete antithesis. Splinter rifles and cannons don’t do a lot if you have a steady 3+ on everything against them. Venoms are pretty awesome, though, but everything has very, very low toughness and it has cost her every game where I didn’t purposefully aim to lose. Besides lacking toughness, they also lack AP- weapons, big time. Sure, there are dark lances and blasters, but you can’t easily deploy a lot of them, except on scourges squads, but those are glass cannons. If they fail their alpha strike even somewhat, they’re a lot of thrown away points

They should get a major boost to their power from pain at the very least for more durability.

[Idej]

A strategy I have been working on is mostly all vehicular combat detachment

I am using a Vanguard Detachment as my basis

Not mentioning points because well, it ain't cheap but this is just a dream detachment anyways :P

Keep in mind this is Narratively speaking a group of Dark Eldar that are with the Ynnari so while yes, I am handicapping myself by not having Haemonculi Covens, it is for the purpose of a future Ynnari army and hoping for generic HQ choices for Ynnari besides just the Triumvirate lol

HQ - 1 Archon

Elites - 4 10 man Kabalite Trueborn with as many blasters I can stuff them with and shove them in Raiders (admittedly you get more for your buck with a five man squad, but I am doing this for my own effed up ideas)

1 10 man Hekatrix Bloodbride Squad
1 10 man Incubi Squad

Fast Attack

1 12 man Reaver Squad with as many Blasters and Grav Talons I can shove in them
1 10 man Scourge Squad

Heavy Support

2 Ravagers with all dark lances

Flyers

1 Razorwing Jetfighter with Dark Lances
1 Voidraven Bomber with Void Lances and Voidraven Missiles

[wander]

Dark Eldar codex has been announced, whether that comes in before Necron one, I think it's gonna be the last of the three personally. I haven't seen any Dark Eldar spoilers, though there have been some Necron ones already.

The Farsight Enclaves are pretty simple to explain; Farsight rebelled against the Ethereal between moustachio twirling top hat wearing villians and decided to do his own thing on the outskirts of Tau space. He's also notable as he quite anti-Tau in that he uses his battlesuit to wield a blade and enjoy the glories of melee combat!  ;D Farsight Enclave armies were extremely elitey battlesuit armies back in 7th edition as the other battlesuits were characters and Farsight's entourage.

Yeah, I could see the Startide Nexus as a Mass Relay, given the Tau aesthetic. Some people are also considering it may be some way of using the Great Rift/warp travel or even a discovered element of the Webway (my personal fave) to venture across the galaxy now.

Back to the Dark Eldar;
Yep they don't have staying power outside of Haemonculi shenanigans and you pay top points for that. It's not their thing though. They're 'hit and run' and 'alpha strike' combatants. They hit first and hard and because they're a glass cannon, they get behind cover before the return fire comes. On the tabletop they have the movement ability to get to prime places for funnelling, flanking and setting up efficient killzones to bait the enemy, which is how they should be played. Each unit should have a goal, either to hold objectives or take out a specific enemy unit.

I don't see the Codex doing much for them aside from cheapening a few things, then using strategems to get by their weaknesses of a lack of cheap AP whilst still doing some cool things with their barge vehicles. Your Relics and Warlord Traits then should make your chosen Warlord into some death incarnate if equipped correctly.

[Arkaniel]

Dark Eldar codex has been announced, whether that comes in before Necron one, I think it's gonna be the last of the three personally. I haven't seen any Dark Eldar spoilers, though there have been some Necron ones already.

The Farsight Enclaves are pretty simple to explain; Farsight rebelled against the Ethereal between moustachio twirling top hat wearing villians and decided to do his own thing on the outskirts of Tau space. He's also notable as he quite anti-Tau in that he uses his battlesuit to wield a blade and enjoy the glories of melee combat!  ;D Farsight Enclave armies were extremely elitey battlesuit armies back in 7th edition as the other battlesuits were characters and Farsight's entourage.

Yeah, I could see the Startide Nexus as a Mass Relay, given the Tau aesthetic. Some people are also considering it may be some way of using the Great Rift/warp travel or even a discovered element of the Webway (my personal fave) to venture across the galaxy now.

Back to the Dark Eldar;
Yep they don't have staying power outside of Haemonculi shenanigans and you pay top points for that. It's not their thing though. They're 'hit and run' and 'alpha strike' combatants. They hit first and hard and because they're a glass cannon, they get behind cover before the return fire comes. On the tabletop they have the movement ability to get to prime places for funnelling, flanking and setting up efficient killzones to bait the enemy, which is how they should be played. Each unit should have a goal, either to hold objectives or take out a specific enemy unit.

I don't see the Codex doing much for them aside from cheapening a few things, then using strategems to get by their weaknesses of a lack of cheap AP whilst still doing some cool things with their barge vehicles. Your Relics and Warlord Traits then should make your chosen Warlord into some death incarnate if equipped correctly.

I had friends who play dark eldar mention that the Codex should be in the last week of March, but haven’t found anything on the subject anymore. Almost as if everything GW has fallen a little silent/delayed.

Still hoping for a sister Codex, but considering they just advertised the metal models in a box and no new plastic models, I don’t think that is going to happen anytime soon, especially since they brought the custodes Codex out. It is a shame, though, they didn’t at least add the sisters of silence to that Codex.

[wander]

My best friend has preordered the Tau codex, so he's gonna be getting it next Saturday.

I know from what connection I have with Geedubs that we'll see codex rules for the Sororitas before the Sisters of Silence. Take that as you will.

[Xunzar]

I mean, I love 40k, but I'm getting a little fed up with the constant codices. And the worst part is there's less and less stuff in them, but the price goes up. I love the fluff and the rules. I don't buy them to look at pretty pictures.

[Arkaniel]

My best friend has preordered the Tau codex, so he's gonna be getting it next Saturday.

I know from what connection I have with Geedubs that we'll see codex rules for the Sororitas before the Sisters of Silence. Take that as you will.

So far, sororities even with just chapter approved is strong already. They mostly just lack affordable models

[wander]

I mean, I love 40k, but I'm getting a little fed up with the constant codices. And the worst part is there's less and less stuff in them, but the price goes up. I love the fluff and the rules. I don't buy them to look at pretty pictures.

A very fair point. However with Chapter Approved annuals now, the theory is that there won't be a new edition or codexs out once everything is in place as the rules will be updated and errata sorted via Chapter Approved and the big FAQs on the Warhammer Community site. Though of course even though the one codex you get for 8th for your army will be the only book you need that way, once a year yourself or whoever you game with will need to pick up Chapter Approved if you find Tournament gaming and gaming in-store relevant.

If it's just you and your friends doing chill gaming with beer and pretzels, the codexs you need for your armies will be enough and Chapter Approved I'd say is completely optional (though it does have some cool things in there outside of the point updates).

[Idej]

Dude I know where you are coming from about those gripes. It's why I didn't get back into it until 8th Edition, nothing really changed lorewise.  I was like meh. Then I heard about Gathering Storm and it piqued my interests heavily.

And I do hear the same theory about the Chapter Approved being the way to go so far.  I think they won't make a new edition for a while but I could be mistaken.

Also, Yvraine is amazing lol

[TheLaughingOne]

... I am bored. and trying to work out a 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse style army.. Space marines, all dreadnoughts.

I would like to go, something like Venerable Chaplin Dread for HQ, or librarian dread,

then a Deredeo, Leviathan, and Redemptor.

Or some combination of the big insane ones, in lore fluff being them being remains of lost chapters entrusted to Death watch or some other organization..

War: Librarian of all things as they are kitted out heavily towards Melee with some good options of range for psyker powers, or conversely, Chaplin as they can do it good in a pinch as well.

Conquest: Deredeo, hammering from afar with their heavy long range weaponry to dismantle heavy vehicles

Pestilence: Redemptor with the mini and heavy onslaught cannons to mow down hordes of troops

And Death: Leviathan, kitted with ranged and melee options to handle bout any situation.