Mass Effect 3 Release!!!

[Hemingway]

Ending Question

Did Anderson say anyone else made it up to the Citadel? I thought he said that apart from Shepard, no one else made. When you first wake up and grab the pistol, the radio chatter says something to the effect of the ground team getting decimated by, presumably, Harbringer.

Answer

It's unclear. I just played the ending over, in part because I was wondering about the same thing. You're absolutely right: the radio chatter says nobody made it there. It's part of what makes Anderon's appearance so mysterious - enough so to suggest that it's not actually happening.

To answer your question, Anderson doesn't say if "I" or "we" followed Shepard. He answered with an incomplete sentence, actually. I'm almost positive he just says "Followed you up". However, he does say "we didn't end up in the same place", or something to that effect - emphasis on "we". In that context, it can mean one out of two things: either Anderson came with someone else and they ended up elsewhere, or he's saying he and Shepard ended up in different places. It's just one more thing that doesn't add up.

[Callie Del Noire]

Whats even more fun is there is an online petion being run to CHANGE the ending.

[Hemingway]

Whats even more fun is there is an online petion being run to CHANGE the ending.

It's so cute how 25000 people have voted for that. And every journalist out there is being a condescending dick. With a few notable exceptions, though.

[Inkidu]

It's so cute how 25000 people have voted for that. And every journalist out there is being a condescending dick. With a few notable exceptions, though.

I honestly think it's kind of... how do I put it? Immature. Like I said, bad writing happens. If you don't like it don't buy anymore of their games. You don't see or hear about people petitioning people to redo TV shows, books, or movies. It smacks of spoiled behavior. I know, I felt the same way, but I realized how petulant I was being.

[BrokenShards]

Got my ME3 a little late. The company I pre-ordered with lost the right to sell the game (boo).

My FemShep is a seasoned veteran. Has done ME1,ME2 and only lost one squad member. Poor Kaiden, he will be remembered for his sacrifice. I just hope Ashley was worth rescuing.

[Hemingway]

I honestly think it's kind of... how do I put it? Immature. Like I said, bad writing happens. If you don't like it don't buy anymore of their games. You don't see or hear about people petitioning people to redo TV shows, books, or movies. It smacks of spoiled behavior. I know, I felt the same way, but I realized how petulant I was being.

I'm not sure I understand.

Bad writing happens. It's possible to fix it. Without even having to undo the bad writing - good writing following the bad writing would negate the bad writing. It's been done before ( either once, if you just consider Broken Steel, or many more times if you consider all retcons ever ). It would make literally tens of thousands of people - at the very least - a lot happier with the game, and that's a very conservative estimate. Yet somehow it's immature to ask for. Immature, of all things.

Disagree if you like, I'm not saying you can't. Just don't insult nearly 30 000 people because you have a view of how things ought to be.

[Cold Heritage]

Thanks for the response, Hemingway.

As an aside, I was on another board, and someone linked to some endgame dialog with Shepard/Anderson that apparently got cut.

Anderson

Would've been nice if they'd left it in.

[Callie Del Noire]

Thanks for the response, Hemingway.

As an aside, I was on another board, and someone linked to some endgame dialog with Shepard/Anderson that apparently got cut.

Anderson

Would've been nice if they'd left it in.

Sounds a LOT like what I heard in my first ending (except for a few bits)

[Hemingway]

There definitely is audio that's cut from the ending.

However, I know an extended Anderson dialogue unlocks if your readiness rating is high enough. Is that it? I didn't actually listen.

[Cold Heritage]

It is an extended talk with Anderson, but if it unlocks I didn't get my readiness high enough for it. :/

[Callie Del Noire]

There definitely is audio that's cut from the ending.

However, I know an extended Anderson dialogue unlocks if your readiness rating is high enough. Is that it? I didn't actually listen.

The scene is just after they finish up with TIM (The Illusive Man).. I got to hear the FEM-Shepard version of it. That music in the background is driving me nuts.

[Inkidu]

I'm not sure I understand.

Bad writing happens. It's possible to fix it. Without even having to undo the bad writing - good writing following the bad writing would negate the bad writing. It's been done before ( either once, if you just consider Broken Steel, or many more times if you consider all retcons ever ). It would make literally tens of thousands of people - at the very least - a lot happier with the game, and that's a very conservative estimate. Yet somehow it's immature to ask for. Immature, of all things.

Disagree if you like, I'm not saying you can't. Just don't insult nearly 30 000 people because you have a view of how things ought to be.

Okay, maybe I have to give you the reverse example.

George Lucas and the Star Wars films. Everyone hates that he diddles with it. They don't want him to change it. You can petition him all you like, and I'm sure people have, but he hasn't. Just because thousands of people want the writers for ME3 to rewrite the ending or add in something extra doesn't mean they have to, or that they should. The author is note beholden to a bunch of upset fans. I'd lose all respect for any author who caved to internet petitions to change the ending of his work.

Basically it's the demand of, "We don't like, change it" While yelling loudly in large groups. It's a bad ending, and I doubt any amount of whining and yelling over the internet is going to get Bioware to do anything about it; honestly, I'd lose all respect for them if they did.

[Hemingway]

Okay, maybe I have to give you the reverse example.

George Lucas and the Star Wars films. Everyone hates that he diddles with it. They don't want him to change it. You can petition him all you like, and I'm sure people have, but he hasn't. Just because thousands of people want the writers for ME3 to rewrite the ending or add in something extra doesn't mean they have to, or that they should. The author is note beholden to a bunch of upset fans. I'd lose all respect for any author who caved to internet petitions to change the ending of his work.

Basically it's the demand of, "We don't like, change it" While yelling loudly in large groups. It's a bad ending, and I doubt any amount of whining and yelling over the internet is going to get Bioware to do anything about it; honestly, I'd lose all respect for them if they did.

Have to? Hardly. Should? Debateable. Entirely subjective.

I think your position is a highly arrogant one. There's evidence that this controversy is actually hurting BioWare - costing them sales and causing sharp price drops. BioWare is a business, not a writer. I'm sure they can afford those lost profits - but then again, in the long term, they might not.

You say you'd lose all respect for a writer who changed something because of "a bunch of upset fans". Which, again, is sort of insulting, considering the popular polls show only 2% of those who vote are happy with the ending, while something like 85% are very unhappy. A few people have tried to dismiss this on grounds that "only" 30 000 people out of a few hundred thousand have voted, but they clearly don't understand how polls or statistics work. It's fairly reasonable to assume that, even if 85% of the total players aren't totally dissatisfied, a large chunk of them are. And suppose they're right? Is it always wrong to give in to fan pressure, even if you think it over and decide they're right? Like I said, an arrogant position.

[Inkidu]

I'm sorry you think it's arrogant, but I think Bioware should live with the fact they wrote a bad ending. It should reflect in their sales. They should learn a lesson. Not a, "Done worry we can fix that later."

[Hemingway]

Fans who invested hundreds of hours into the games disagree. When a fix would be that easy and please that many people, general principle isn't enough. It's going to hurt BioWare a lot more than offering a better ending would.

[Inkidu]

Fans who invested hundreds of hours into the games disagree. When a fix would be that easy and please that many people, general principle isn't enough. It's going to hurt BioWare a lot more than offering a better ending would.

I put in my hours, too. I just think they should have to live with it.

[Hemingway]

I put in my hours, too. I just think they should have to live with it.

Why?

[Inkidu]

Why?

Because I'm sick of this behavior. "Don't worry how good the ending is, we can change it later. Don't worry about getting the bugs out. We can fix it later."

No, at the end of the day the writing staff at Bioware thought the ending was adequate. It's not broken, it's just bad. It's called owning up to your work. If it's crap, it's crap. If they wanted to fix it they shouldn't have published it.

[Hemingway]

Because you're sick of it. Yeah.

You could make exactly the same argument for not fixing bugs in a game, you know. So what if the dragons in Skyrim fly backwards - it's still playable, we messed up, we have to live with it.

Or is it different because it's not "art", and so exempt from the rules?

Edit: For the record, BioWare are dropping hints that the endings might not be the "endings", too. It's all very cryptic at this point, but still.

[Inkidu]

Because you're sick of it. Yeah.

You could make exactly the same argument for not fixing bugs in a game, you know. So what if the dragons in Skyrim fly backwards - it's still playable, we messed up, we have to live with it.

Or is it different because it's not "art", and so exempt from the rules?

Edit: For the record, BioWare are dropping hints that the endings might not be the "endings", too. It's all very cryptic at this point, but still.

No, no, no. You see, bugs are lapses in function. They do impact the gameplay, and they're a mistake. However, in function the endings serve the purpose they were meant to.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Shepard stops the Reapers, and it happens in such a metaphysical (basically magical) way that plot holes don't work. You basically rewrote the universe.

Just because no one likes the ending doesn't mean they have to rewrite it. It's just bad. It happens all the time. I've read, seen, watched, and played so many bad books, movies, TV shows, and video games. However, no one complains about that. Sheesh next time I see a crappy movie I think I'll heckle the writers of it to rewrite it.

[Hemingway]

Let's assume that no book, movie, TV show or video game was ever rewritten - which is a patently false assumption, but it's irrelevant, so let's go with it.

Is that an argument against ever doing so? No. No, it's not. It's a statement of what has been done, not what can be done. You're still not giving a single good argument for why it shouldn't be done.

[Inkidu]

Let's assume that no book, movie, TV show or video game was ever rewritten - which is a patently false assumption, but it's irrelevant, so let's go with it.

Is that an argument against ever doing so? No. No, it's not. It's a statement of what has been done, not what can be done. You're still not giving a single good argument for why it shouldn't be done.

No one should ever have to cave to the requests of fans in a temper-tantrum. How about that? My point is that it's never been re-written because the fans throw hissy-fits. Creators diddle all the time. Again, George Lucas. He doesn't do it because of the fans. You've not not given one good reason why the fans have the right to demand a rewrite.

[Heaven Sent Blossom]

...There's evidence that this controversy is actually hurting BioWare - costing them sales...

I'm curious about this, I don't follow the sales charts as closely as I used to however it was my understanding that ME3 has outperformed both its predecessors week one sales combined and is still riding very high, numbers wise. Is this not the case?

[Hemingway]

I'm curious about this, I don't follow the sales charts as closely as I used to however it was my understanding that ME3 has outperformed both its predecessors week one sales combined and is still riding very high, numbers wise. Is this not the case?

Rumors of a sharp price drop due to cancelled orders and the backlash have surfaced, and a quick check of Amazon.com has revealed that new copies of the game are available at retailers for around 45$ brand new.

http://robotgeek.co.uk/2012/03/12/editorial-the-mass-effect-3-backlash/

It's only rumors, as you can see, so take it with a grain of salt. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if people - many people - have been discouraged from buying, however.

Or, for that matter, how many people are cancelling their SWTOR subscriptions ( which may seem weird, considering they're not directly related ) and swearing not to buy future DLC.

No one should ever have to cave to the requests of fans in a temper-tantrum. How about that? My point is that it's never been re-written because the fans throw hissy-fits. Creators diddle all the time. Again, George Lucas. He doesn't do it because of the fans. You've not not given one good reason why the fans have the right to demand a rewrite.

Even if said "temper trantrum" ( again, being condescending doesn't help ) is justified? I can hardly think of a better reason.

[Inkidu]

http://robotgeek.co.uk/2012/03/12/editorial-the-mass-effect-3-backlash/

It's only rumors, as you can see, so take it with a grain of salt. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if people - many people - have been discouraged from buying, however.

Or, for that matter, how many people are cancelling their SWTOR subscriptions ( which may seem weird, considering they're not directly related ) and swearing not to buy future DLC.

Even if said "temper trantrum" ( again, being condescending doesn't help ) is justified? I can hardly think of a better reason.

Everyone thinks their tantrums are justified, this is just one en masse. This isn't some great injustice, the game functions on a high degree, there's nothing fundamentally wrong, the endings are purely a matter of taste, a vastly unpopular one, but taste nonetheless. I hope Bioware puts its foot down. I'm not going to argue with it further.