Israel / Hamas Conflict in the West Bank

[Chulanowa]

No, you didn't.  Allow me to quote:

Israel bombed al-Ahli baptist hospital in Gaza, killing at least 500
Claim by Hamas presented as fact.

By the sources I just noted, which was the current understanding when posted. When Reuters and Médecins Sans Frontières and AJ and AP are on the same page about something, I'm inclined to find it credible.

Of course Israel has blamed this on a "misfired rocket from Islamic Jihad," which the group denies. Well they should because it's a frankly absurd claim, especially when you consider that Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari also claims that "there was no direct hit" and the strike "a kind of hit in the parking lot."

Counterclaim by Israel (supported by evidence) dismissed out of hand as "absurd".

You did not "posted the facts", you pushed a narrative.
No amount of backpedalling will change that.

And by the information available at the time, from Israel's prior strikes at the hospital to the level of destruction that seemed apparent at the time of reporting, it did in fact seem like an absurd claim. 

This is your periodic reminder that X/Twitter and Facebook are flaming dumpsters as far as reliability.  Elon has gutted the 'Trust and Safety' department at X/Twitter, and the blue check-mark only means that someone is forking over a monthly fee to make their posts look more legit.  Facebook really isn't much better.

As a result, using a tweet or a Facebook post as a source can be very risky.  Bad actors will re-caption videos and images, present clips out of context, or pretend to be 'journalists'.  The posts they make will tug at all of your preconceived ideas about what's going on, enrage you, and urge you to spread their message.

Don't fall for it.  Especially if the post you're about to quote confirms all the terrible things, and especially if 'no one else dares to show this'.  Many news sites include Fact Checking pages these days.  Reuters has one.  So do CNN and AP News.  You can also take matters into your own hands.  If someone claims to be a journalist, Google their names.  Look for their byline.  Check the news outlet they claim to work for to see if they even show up there.  Use TinEye to verify stills (something uploaded in 2021 can't be something that happened this week.)

The rules around Elliquiy cover all the forums. This means - being civil, polite and respectful of participants is just as important in discourses as it would be in a social thread.  Be aware of what you post and how it is phrased so that it is less likely to seem confrontational.  If you spot a false claim, feel free to notify Staff of the specific claim (especially if multiple points are raised in the post you are reporting).  If you have a link to a fact-check site, that's also awesome - it saves us having to search through the proliferating B.S.

Please do not take the bait and rather let staff handle the matter in order to keep the threads civil and respectful towards everyone.  This message is not intended as a 'gotcha' moment.  It should not be used as a 'gotcha' moment.  This is a reminder that we are all human, and all fallible.

Thanks for this Oniya,

I avoid the Musk Hole in general, but especially for a topic like this. The potential value of by-minute updates is VASTLY outweighed by the garbage potential; everything from as you note, old videos / images used as current events, to hysterical claims of ritual sacrifice on either side to - most disturbingly to me so far, AI edits of killed children to make it seems as though the actual photograph is the edit.

And just to be very clear; both Israel and Palestinian factions lie. A lot. We could all fish up a laundry list of stories about this fact. For myself though, yes, I do have an opinion. And that opinion will generally fall on the side of the less powerful, more oppressed, and clearly-aggressed party. Especially when that position is reinforced by multiple major outlets.

[inkybus]

This is your periodic reminder that X/Twitter and Facebook are flaming dumpsters as far as reliability.  Elon has gutted the 'Trust and Safety' department at X/Twitter, and the blue check-mark only means that someone is forking over a monthly fee to make their posts look more legit.  Facebook really isn't much better.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I stopped logging into facebook nine years ago: still no regrets to this day. Same for twitter: occasionally I will get an update on what kind of cesspool it is and be glad that Stockholm Syndrome did not affect me for those platforms.

[Chulanowa]

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I stopped logging into facebook nine years ago: still no regrets to this day. Same for twitter: occasionally I will get an update on what kind of cesspool it is and be glad that Stockholm Syndrome did not affect me for those platforms.

I only go there to see what family's up to and to get cute parrot vids 

Even then it's packed full of garbage in between (in my case, mostly fraudulent archeology. You engage in ONE argument about Zechariah Sitchen and the algorithm taints your feed for life, I guess)

But, yeah, I've been clean off Twitter for two years and counting. Healthier, happier, and more productive than ever!

[Chulanowa]

And just to be very clear; both Israel and Palestinian factions lie. A lot. We could all fish up a laundry list of stories about this fact. 

And just as an addendum to this; it's not always lying, either, they can just be wrong about stuff, too. Make mistakes (like the heptagon thing upthread, where it's probably just someone right-click spellchecking the actual word they wanted)

[Al Terego]

Quoting from the WSJ:

Israel has agreed, for now, to a request from the U.S. to get its air defenses in place to protect U.S. troops in the region ahead of an expected ground invasion of Gaza, according to U.S. officials and people familiar with the Israeli planning.

The Pentagon is scrambling to deploy nearly a dozen air-defense systems to the region, including for U.S. troops serving in Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, to protect them from missiles and rockets. U.S. officials have so far persuaded the Israelis to hold off until those pieces can be placed, as early as later this week.

Israel is also taking into account in its planning the effort to supply humanitarian aid to civilians inside Gaza, as well as diplomatic efforts to free more of the hostages held by Hamas, officials said.

[Keelan]

Quoting from the WSJ:

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-palestinians-news/card/israel-agrees-to-delay-invasion-of-gaza-so-u-s-can-rush-missile-defenses-to-region-wFU3kduhruPhm6e8OM7b

From here, I presume? Can't see past the paywall but it looks like the first part you can see.

[elone]

Why? Over 7,000 Palestinians dead in Gaza.  One shot point blank in the West Bank others murdered there, on film, total impunity so far as the IDF stood by watching. Nothing but retribution. What about the Palestinians (around 750,000) who were forced to flee in 1948, had their homes destroyed, children murdered, goods looted and women raped by Israeli forces. Palestinians have endured 75 years of Israeli aggression with no peace. 

Israel started the 1967, war and more Palestinians fled or were forced out. Many PM's of Israel were terrorists. Don't forget all that history. Zionists goal seems to be  the eradication of the Palestinians for the establishment a purely jewish state. There is no excuse for what Hamas did, there is no excuse for what the Israeli's are doing now!

Ridding Hamas is just an excuse to kill more people, mowing the lawn, another group will just take their place and there will be more hatred on both sides.

Biden, Netanyahu, Trump, put these assholes in jail where they belong.

I am incensed by this relentless slaughter.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/26/al-jazeera-gaza-bureau-chief-family-members-killed-mclean-nr-vpx.cnn

[Al Terego]

I was under the impression that this thread would be used for aggregating and sharing information about the ongoing conflict, not as an outlet for toxicity.

There is nothing of value here.  I'm out.

[elone]

Giving information on the continuing Israeli killings of journalists and their families is information about the ongoing conflict Al. Stating the number of Palestinians killed is also ongoing news of the war. What we do not know is the exact breakdown of deaths of soldiers versus civilians. Neither side only killed armed or unarmed soldiers. Background information to attempt to explain the plight of Palestinians is not toxic information unless it is against your beliefs. So far, Israel seems to have killed many more civilians than Hamas. Reports are that over half of the Palestinian deaths are women and children. That is what I have read anyway.

One side is organized and in uniform, the other not as many. Who is who is hard to tell.

I admit the comment on Netanyahu, Biden, and Trump was a bit toxic. It should not be here but they are a large part of the confrontation.

It is unfortunate that you find it all of no value, all information is valuable.

[elone]

There is little love lost between the Palestinians and the neighbouring Arab countries.  The (short-lived) annexation of the West Bank by Jordan gave them Jordanian citizenship and parliament representation, but the PLO had their own ideas, even trying to assassinate Hussein a couple of times.  This led to a civil war, at the end of which the PLO was expelled to Lebanon.  The Lebanese were not too happy about that either, and eventually managed to expel them to Tunisia.

On a different topic:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-releases-horrifying-images-of-infants-murdered-by-hamas/

This I suppose is completely current and non toxic

[Chulanowa]

I admit the comment on Netanyahu, Biden, and Trump was a bit toxic. It should not be here but they are a large part of the confrontation.

In all fairness your estimation of them is far more charitable than mine. 

But then... I have opinions.

[MiaKage]

What about the Palestinians (around 750,000) who were forced to flee in 1948, had their homes destroyed, children murdered, goods looted and women raped by Israeli forces.

Palestine declared war on Israel for declaring independence, the fact that they declared war caused them to lose territory once it was finished. Keep in mind this was right after the holocaust, so the Jewish population had been going through a lot. Also keep in mind that the Jewish people have been getting kicked around the world for centuries.



1967 the war was started by Egypt when it closed the Suez canal. This was after Israel had stated that doing so would be considered an act of war.

Palestine has always hated the fact that a Jewish population was in what it considered it's territory, seeing it as more colonialism and lies from the western nations after not getting exactly what was promised to them. 

[Chulanowa]

Palestine declared war on Israel for declaring independence, the fact that they declared war caused them to lose territory once it was finished. Keep in mind this was right after the holocaust, so the Jewish population had been going through a lot. Also keep in mind that the Jewish people have been getting kicked around the world for centuries.



1967 the war was started by Egypt when it closed the Suez canal. This was after Israel had stated that doing so would be considered an act of war.

Palestine has always hated the fact that a Jewish population was in what it considered it's territory, seeing it as more colonialism and lies from the western nations after not getting exactly what was promised to them.

Oof. i'm sorry Mia but nearly everything you said was wrong.

First, the "War" between Israel and Palestine - or rather between Jews and Arabs in Palestine, at the time - began in 1946. This is the "Palestinian Civil War" though it was mostly an ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Arabs. At that time it was the responsibility of the UK to intervene and secure civil order (As per their Mandate) but they uhhh didn't.

On may 22 1948, three things happened pretty much simultaneously (if one considers ~4 hours to be effectively simultaneous); the British mandate over Palestine ended, Israel declared its independence, and the Arab League declared an intervention into the civil war. Since the Arab League was about as organized as a herd of chickens, and aside from soem Egyptian flyovers of Jaffa / Tel Aviv, didn't actually advance into claimed Israeli territory, it was a big fuckin' mess that ended up with the 1949 armistice lines that some mistakenly call "the pre-1967 borders"

Territory cannot change hands as you describe, without a treaty securing the exchange. 

The hardships of the Jewish people do not justify not excuse what has been done to  the Palestinians. If you're going to try to use the Holocaust to justify the Nakba, that's pretty gross and exploitative. 

You're confusing the 1967 war and  the 1956 suez crisis. Both instances were aggression by Israel, and both were instigated by foreign powers. 

The Suez Crisis was when Nasser nationalized  the Suez canal, basically just taking it out of British control (and good for him.) Israel declared war, and it became apparent very quickly that Israel was acting as a catspaw for the UK and France - a fact which led both the US and USSR to issue a lot of threats to all three antagonists (mostly financial towards the UK and France, IIRC the Soviets threatened military action if Israel didn't draw back) and left the Suez Canal in Egyptian domain (again, good for them.)

The 1967 war was mostly the effect of horseshittery; Basically the USSR informed Egypt that Israel was planning an attack on Egypt and Syria. In response to this Egypt parked its military in the Sinai, blockaded t he Straits of Tiran, and began scrambling for allies in a defensive pact. Israel claims this was an act of aggression and launched an invasion of Egypt and Syria. As revealed in archived files from the Polish Communist Party this was not in fact a manipulation by the Soviets, so much as an oopsy-doopsy fucksy-wucksy, where the Soviets underestimated Israel's military capability and over-estimated Nasser's

Brezhnev's report shows that Moscow had no intention of inciting an armed conflict in the Middle East and that the June 1967 war was the result of grave miscalculations and of Soviet inability to control the Arabs, rather than a conspiracy. The brief documents that throughout April-May, 1967, the Kremlin suspected that Israel was planning an act of aggression against Syria. Determined to forestall the Israeli offensive and to rescue the new radical-left regime in Damascus, the Soviet government informed Egypt that Israel had mobilized its armed forces on the border with Syria. By doing so, Moscow hoped to manipulate Nasser into assisting Syria by concentrating his armed forces on Egypt's border with Israel. The Kremlin estimated mistakenly, as if turned out – that Israel was militarily weak and could not cope with a war on two fronts. Subsequently, Moscow consented to the ejection of United Nations (UN) peacekeeping forces from outposts on the Israeli-Egyptian border, and to the concentration of Egyptian troops on the Sinai Peninsula and the Gaza Strip.

Brezhnev's account suggests that after the situation in the Middle East deteriorated in May 1967, Moscow was no longer able to control the crisis. The Soviets were taken aback when Nasser blocked the Gulf of Aqaba without having consulted them. Israel's surprise attack and rapid victory within six days alarmed the Soviet leadership. Moscow, however, was not inclined to take any military action against Israel. Nor it was willing to airlift weapons to its Arab clients while hostilities continued. The Soviet leaders doubted that their Arab clients were capable of fighting any further. They concentrated instead on the diplomatic front and sought cease-fire agreement mediated by the UN. Such an accord would stop the Israeli offensive, restore the status quo ante in the Middle East, and force Israel to withdraw to the prewar border. It was only when the occupation of the Syrian capital by IDF seemed imminent that the Kremlin sharply increased pressure upon Israel and even resorted to military threats. At that point the President Lyndon B. Johnson intervened in the conflict and persuaded the Israeli Government to stop the fighting.

Nations don't actually get to arbitrarily decide what is and isn't an "act of war," belligerent acts are pretty clearly-defined in the laws of war.

Palestine has always hated the fact that a Jewish population was in what it considered it's territory, seeing it as more colonialism and lies from the western nations after not getting exactly what was promised to them. 

I mean that's exactly what it is, though. It's not the Jewish population; there's been a notable Jewish population in and around Palestine since the ottoman sultan welcomed refugees from Iberia and Djerba in the 15th century (there were Jews prior to that, but a much smaller population, mostly in Jerusalem) it's the violent ethnonationalist movement backed by western powers that has committed ethnic cleansing and repeatedly violates international law, again with the full backing of western powers... who are manifestly liars and hypocrites about it.

[elone]

In all fairness your estimation of them is far more charitable than mine.

But then... I have opinions.

Toxic as far as information in this place goes. Not toxic as a statement.

[MiaKage]

THE 1967 MIDEAST WAR
A decade later, at the outbreak of the 1967 Mideast war, Egypt closed the canal to international shipping as Israeli forces struck again at the canal zone and entrenched in the Sinai Peninsula. This time, the canal was shut for eight years. Accumulating mines, bombshells and sunken vessels, the waterway became a fortified trench in the war. It was only after peace talks with Israel that Nasser’s successor, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, reopened the waterway in 1975.

Also there was the 1949 Armistice Agreements that were signed between Israel and Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. that Armistice is how Israel occupied territory that had once belonged to Palestine.  

I'm not using the Holocaust as an excuse for poor treatment of Palestinians, it's just better to understand the mindset people are under when they do things.

[GloomCookie]

Ok tempers are flaring again, locking the thread for 24 hours again. Once everyone's had a chance to cool down, we'll resume again.

I am going to ask once more that you please be respectful and not share misinformation, toxicity, or bigotry.

[GloomCookie]

Thread is unlocked again but please be respectful.

[Chulanowa]

THE 1967 MIDEAST WAR
A decade later, at the outbreak of the 1967 Mideast war, Egypt closed the canal to international shipping as Israeli forces struck again at the canal zone and entrenched in the Sinai Peninsula. This time, the canal was shut for eight years. Accumulating mines, bombshells and sunken vessels, the waterway became a fortified trench in the war. It was only after peace talks with Israel that Nasser’s successor, Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, reopened the waterway in 1975.

Yes after hostilities began, Egypt closed the canal. They're allowed to do that as a matter of security, after all. The Suex crisis was a war started by Israel (with backing from the UK and France) immediately after Egypt nationalized hte Canal, so i thought that's what you were talking about - Egypt blocking the Canal in 1967 was not a cause of the war (nor could it be legally, but w/e) but was rather an effect of it.

Also there was the 1949 Armistice Agreements that were signed between Israel and Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. that Armistice is how Israel occupied territory that had once belonged to Palestine.

Article V section 2 of the armistice agreement:

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary, and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

Remember that occupied territory is, by absolute 100% definition, territory that is not your own that you are occupying. I went over this way way back in post #61

I'm not using the Holocaust as an excuse for poor treatment of Palestinians, it's just better to understand the mindset people are under when they do things.

Apologies, I have a habit - I suppose a bad habit - of using "you" in the general sense of "someone." [/quote]

[elone]

An Israeli perspective  on the Gaza invasion live on the news.

https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1713536716051554597

[Chulanowa]

And just in case anyone wanted some Saturday morning irony...

Russia says Israeli bombardment of Gaza is against international law

Israel’s bombardment of Gaza runs counter to international law and risks creating a catastrophe that could last decades, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has said.Lavrov made the comments, some of Moscow’s most critical of Israel yet, in an interview with the Belarusian state news agency Belta, which released them on Saturday.
“While we condemn terrorism, we categorically disagree that you can respond to terrorism by violating the norms of international humanitarian law, including indiscriminately using force against targets where civilians are known to be present, including hostages that have been taken,” he said.

It was impossible, he added, to destroy Hamas  – as Israel has pledged to do  – without destroying Gaza along with most of its civilian population.

“If Gaza is destroyed and two million inhabitants are expelled, as some politicians in Israel and abroad propose, this will create a catastrophe for many decades, if not centuries,” warned Lavrov.

“It is necessary to stop, and to announce humanitarian programmes to save the population under blockade.”

I mean he's right. ...But still.

[Chulanowa]

Well, my senile gremlin of a president just keeps
Biden questioned Gaza’s death toll, so Palestinians released the names

The list is stark in its simplicity: the victim’s name, age and sex. But great tragedies are inferred from within the margins of the more than 200 pages. It tells of entire families extinguished — infants, grandparents, mothers, uncles, cousins all sharing the same surname are grouped together. Lives cut short before they are even a year old. There are 6,747 names in total, all of them killed during Israel’s assault on Gaza. That number, reached in just 19 days, does not include the missing, making the true toll likely higher still.
The decision by the health ministry in Gaza to release the names of the dead appears to have come in response to comments from president Joe Biden, who abruptly declared during a press conference on Wednesday that he had “no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using” to count their dead
...
Mr Biden did not elaborate on what shaped his view of the ministry’s figures, but organisations with experience working in Gaza have used the numbers for many years. Omar Shakir, Israel and Palestine Director at Human Rights Watch, described the numbers as “generally reliable.”

“They have access to data that are difficult for other sources to have,” Mr Shakir told The Independent. “In particular, they aggregate data coming from different hospitals and morgues and compile them together. That’s why we, the UN, the US State Department have regularly cited their numbers.” Human Rights Watch had conducted their own independent investigations into particular strikes, says Mr Shakir, and they found the ministry’s numbers to be generally consistent, “with no major deviations from the figures that they have provided.”

...
The White House repeatedly declined to directly state whether Mr Biden’s remarks on the reliability — or lack thereof — of casualty counts coming out of Gaza indicated a change in policy by the US, despite the State Department’s use of Gaza health ministry data during past conflicts.

Meanwhile, al-Quds hospital may be in the crosshairs:
Palestine Red Crescent says Israel orders evacuation of al-Quds Hospital

The Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) on Sunday said it has received “serious threats” from Israeli forces to “immediately evacuate” the al-Quds Hospital in Gaza as it is “going to be bombed”.

The hospital, located in the Tal al-Hawa area of Gaza City, said in a statement on X, formerly Twitter, that “since this morning, there have been bombs dropping 50 metres from the hospital”.

The PRCS has reported that the hospital is currently providing care to hundreds of injured patients, including those in intensive care units and newborns in incubators. Around 12,000 unarmed displaced civilians, with a majority being children and women, have also sought refuge in the hospital building.

Given the number of people there both receiving treatment and seeking shelter, it's understandable that the administration of al-Quds hospital has refused  the order

Authorities at the Al-Quds hospital have refused to evacuate after Israel issued a warning on Sunday demanding immediate evacuation of the medical facility in the Gaza Strip currently housing several wounded patients.

Citing the hospital’s director, Bashar Murad, Palestinian state-news agency (WAFA) reported that the hospital received warning from the Israeli military, demanding immediate evacuation of patients and medical personnel, threatening them with bombardment.

The Al-Quds hospital administration, however, have refused to obey the evacuation orders and continue to provide treatment to critical patients, some of whom require artificial respiration and cannot be moved elsewhere, according to WAFA reports.

And of course Israel is justifying its  threats against hospitals by arguing "But there's Hamas tunnels!" (same source)

On Friday, the Israeli military accused Hamas of abusing hospitals in the Gaza Strip for military purposes, as bombs continue to rain on the enclave.

“Hamas wages war from hospitals” in Gaza, military spokesman Daniel Hagari told journalists, adding that the group was also using fuel stored in hospitals to help carry out its operations, the AFP reported.

Hagari specifically identified Al-Shifa hospital, the largest in Gaza, as one from which Hamas militants were operating, according to AFP reports.

“Terrorists move freely” in Shifa and other hospitals, he said.

[elone]

Of course if Hamas had weapons that were accurate and bombed an Israeli hospital under the guise that it was serving IDF persons. then all hell would break loose.

It is impossible to evacuate a hospital full of people and refugees and the Israelis know it, they just don't care.

West bank settlers and IDF  continue to kill Palestinians who are unarmed, attending funerals and harvesting olives. No citation needed, it is all over the news.

[elone]

More ethnic cleansing under the watch of the IDF. All this going on so say the Israelis because troops are needed for war on Hamas.  It has been going on for year.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/shin-bet-said-to-warn-settler-violence-could-cause-west-bank-eruption/

[Chulanowa]

Photos: Dozens killed in Israeli air attack on Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza

Dozens of people have been killed in an Israeli air raid on the Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza, according to a medical official and Palestinian authorities in the besieged territory.

The health ministry in Gaza said more than 50 people were killed in the attack on Tuesday and 150 others were wounded. The director of the Indonesian Hospital confirmed that more than 50 people were killed.

Images and video from the scene of the strike show buildings heavily damaged as rescuers and volunteers use their bare hands to search for survivors in huge amounts of concrete debris.

People can be seen frantically trying to pull people from the rubble – many of the victims women and children. Others are seen standing and crying, fearing family members and friends may be among the dead.

Hamas says it will release some foreign hostages in coming days

The armed wing of the Palestinian group Hamas has said that it will release some foreign hostages from Gaza in the coming days, without offering more specifics.




Qassam Brigades spokesman Abu Obeida announced the decision in a video address on Tuesday, in which he also promised to turn Gaza into a “graveyard” and a “quagmire” for Israeli forces amid increased ground operations.

“We have informed intermediaries that we will release a certain number of foreigners in the next few days,” Obeida said.

More than 230 people, including Israeli soldiers and civilians, as well as foreigners from numerous countries, were taken captive by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups during a deadly assault on Israel on October 7 that Israeli authorities say killed more than 1,400 people, most of them civilians.

Today's entry in the "What the absolute fucking fuck?" department...

Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry

The Israeli Ministry of Intelligence is recommending the forcible and permanent transfer of the Gaza Strip’s 2.2 million Palestinian residents to Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, according to an official document revealed in full for the first time by +972’s partner site Local Call yesterday.

The 10-page document, dated Oct. 13, 2023, bears the logo of the Intelligence Ministry — a small governmental body that produces policy research and shares its proposals with intelligence agencies, the army, and other ministries. It assesses three options regarding the future of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip in the framework of the current war, and recommends a full population transfer as its preferred course of action. It also calls on Israel to enlist the international community in support of this endeavor. The document, whose authenticity was confirmed by the ministry, has been translated into English in full here on +972.

...

The document recommends that Israel act to “evacuate the civilian population to Sinai” during the war; establish tent cities and later more permanent cities in the northern Sinai that will absorb the expelled population; and then create “a sterile zone of several kilometers … within Egypt, and [prevent] the return of the population to activities/residences near the border with Israel.” At the same time, governments around the world, led by the United States, must be mobilized to implement the move.

So, just to be clear, the Israel Ministry of Intelligence is just that, a ministry, not an executive body. It basically conducts research and offers recommendations to various offices as well as the governments itself, maintaining contact between Israel's intelligence organizations, and budgetary stuff.

But even with that in mind... this is a document literally outlining the ethnic cleansing and depopulation of Gaza, annexation of that territory by force, seizure of land from Egypt to enable that ethnic cleansing, and so much else that should get a lot of dudes involved with given desk jobs counting paperclips in a sub-sub-sub basement.

Fuckin yikes.

[Oniya]

Some of you may have noticed a post that was here earlier.  As it added nothing at all to the discussion, did not even reference the topic at hand, and seemed potentially incendiary so soon after Gloomy had reopened the thread, that post has been removed.