DnD 3.5 Unlimited: Legendary Monsters Recruitment part2!

[Zaer Darkwail]

If monster side of gestalt has spellcasting which allows it qualify for PrC's, like raksasha which has cleric levels in mystic side can take mystic theurge levels (but mystic theurge levels go to mystic path than monster path). So you cannot take spellcasting based PrC's to monster side unless they are specific PrC's for said monster (example vampire lord progress spellcasting and if you take monster side the PrC levels then spellcasting progresses in mystic side).

Snake; Looks quite vicious dragon lady :). Okay so far what I can tell. Just need pics and background written out (as besides sheet you need most important part; legendary story about the said char).

[Snake]

Legendary Story, *thinks on that*. Can it be as simple as being one of the first Hybrid Dragons from when dragons first started showing up and as a result is quite possibly way more powerful than any other dragon and Ao; fearing something that powerful breeding sealed her away in stasis?

I'll have to give that some thought. It doesn't have to be overly complex does it?

[Jefepato]

As long as I'm asking weird questions, can the monster side be an advanced creature (assuming the HD and CR still fit the limits)?

For example, would it be possible to play a Huge-sized phase spider (which would be at least 9 HD and at least CR 8 from the advancement)?

Also...are awakened animals allowed?  I'm vaguely tempted to play a psionic dinosaur or something.

[Snake]

Any animal above an Int of 3 would probably be considered Awakened as they gain human level intelligence. Basically anything that bumps INT would cause it I'd think.

*still ponders Legendary Story*

[Zaer Darkwail]

Legendary story can be simple or even short. But most players who have played longest also have longest background stories and well detailed. Indeed it's possible Ao sealed your dragon up as it was first hybrid (and perfect hybrid at that) of dragon kind.

Anycase you can have advanced monsters (add more HD to increase size yes, but levels taken are determined by HD or CR whichever is highest). Awakened animals are okay chars and as note some templates push int of animals to 3 and thus have human inteligence (and slap in paragon template and you have Int 18 animal, assuming Int 3 is not max cap for the inteligence somereason).

[Snake]

I'll go with that. But Ao Sealed her away after she began to become known because of her ability to raid large cities for loot and was almost unstoppable by virtually anything less than her own power level.

I've had the human version of this character for a long time but her story doesn't mesh well with this set up. As originally she's a a Lvl 0 Deity (which is still really strong defensively. and are immortal.) But I'd like to create this one's legend as she goes in a way. Is that ok? 

[Zaer Darkwail]

It's okay, such dragon is sort already a deity in itself with sheer power she has :P

[Jefepato]

Zaer, you mentioned non-spellcasting variant rangers in the other thread.  What source are those from?  It sounds familiar but I can't find the class description anywhere.

[TheGlyphstone]

Ao is the primary route by which DvR0 is gained in the first place, it's entirely possible he could have decided to strip it away in the process of sealing the monster, leaving a super-powerful but otherwise mortal dragon in stasis. At least two existing characters have made obtaining divinity a short-term goal in their story arcs (plus one who went for Demon Lord instead), so re-gaining divine status would make for a good short-term goal for this character too.


Non-spellcasting rangers are in Complete Warrior, if I remember right.

[Snake]

Once again: Thanks Glyph! That's a good short term goal to seek. XD  But one for her also is to find out what happened to her mother while she was sealed and what happened to the small empire she ruled during her initial active time before being sealed.

She was a pretty big badass with nicknames like:

Kapraliv di Ibafarshan (empress of flame)
Daariv di Hatibahu Bekilip (queen of ultimate destruction)

[PhantomPistoleer]

After reviewing the homebrew rules, I wanted to pose a question:

I am interested in using the Rogue for the Martial/Skill side of the gestalt.  I've discovered that you've combined the Monk/Swashbuckler, Ninja/Spellthief, Fighter/Knight, and Marshall/Paladin, among other things.

But there hasn't been any class meshing for the Rogue.  Would it be possible to either mesh the Rogue with the Fighter?  Or with the Swashbuckler?

[TheGlyphstone]

I think Zaer merged all of the above because they're fairly weak classes, not because they're martial - nothing that got blended is above the T4 level. Rogues are strong T4 into T3 on their own, they don't really need to blend with anything.

[Jefepato]

Actually...if monks are merged with swashbucklers, does that give monks full BAB?

[Lockepick]

Ixrixs
(ICKS-ricks)
Beholder
Beholder Mage / Cleric / Mystic Theurge // Paladin of Tyranny

Description

Ixrixs has the body of a slender young woman, but is unlikely to be mistaken as one in the light. Her skin is a soft blue shade, pristine and evenly colored across her entire body. Her eyes are oversized, a solid red that don't seem to move or focus, as if somebody tried describing humanoid eyes to somebody who had never seen them before. Where one might have hair, she has long tendrils of that hang down behind her head, but actually contain eyes on the end of each one. In the center of her chest, right below her collar bone, is a horizontal slit, sewn closed with a single X of thread, but red light sometimes still manages to escape through. Her legs are even more slender, and given that she's always floating above the ground, it may be atrophy from misuse.

Ixrixs is actually Large, but has Reduce Person Permanency'd to make her Medium. Her Sheet lists Medium simply because of the auto-calculations.

History

Beholders already believe themselves to be superior. Even if each of them is some twisted, horrifying form, they believe that their form is correct, and all the other quirks in the other are lesser. Ixrixs was unique in that she thought otherwise, that the options were infinite, and only a fool would trust the genetic lottery to finding perfection. It was the pride of other beholders that allowed her to move freely and amass her own skill and power, and it was a curious archmage, believing that her unique point of view was humility, that exposed her to a world she wouldn't have seen in the tunnels on her plane. She worked alongside the archmage, who was blinded by his own pride at 'domesticating' a beholder, not to see that she was only playing along in order to learn more.

He succeeded in crafting her a new form, and he was eager to show off his new creation to the world. He called a caucus of other mages from across the planes to see and discuss Ixrixs' new form, but organizing such an event took time. In the months it took, Ixrixis' prowess increased exponentially in her new form, her salvaged beholder traits evolving to something new. Even if the archmage was nervous about her growing greed and power, he couldn't risk cancelling and losing his reputation. Ixrixs' attended the caucus, and was on her best behavior. She was hoping that a meeting of minds such as this would allow new insight, further developments.

The assembled mages had no usable input, or nothing that was usable enough. Ixrixs quickly grew upset, and gave a full demonstration of her power in slaughtering as many of the mages as she could. The same safeguards that were designed to protect the mages from each other had kept them trapped in with her. Just enough escaped to warn the world about what had been created, rumors of her spreading while she explored the tower uninhibited, explored all the information that the other archmages had brought to the caucus. She was about to leave, to track down the others and collect more information, until Ao himself stepped in to answer the calls before she could be a blight. She was imprisoned, and her memory remaining as a threat to any other wizards out there: a boogeyman that would strike any wizards who had too much hubris.

Personality

Personality:
- Ixrixs' is hungry for more power, more magical might, and she doesn't care what is required or what the cost is; assuming it's a net gain.
- Ixrixs' body is temporary, and it should be explored. She understands that she can die, as unlikely as it is, but soon she'll find a new vessel, and she mind as well enjoy this one while she can.
- Worship is a means to an end; both in her own pursuits, and demanding it from others. It is not an act of pride for her to demand worship, to assemble a cult, but simply part of her rise to divinity.

Goals:
- Amass more magic: arcane or divine. Master 'Epic' Magic.
- Suffuse her physical form with more magic; attain divinity or a more powerful form.
- Amass more spells in a more literal sense; increase her spellbook further

[TheGlyphstone]

Actually...if monks are merged with swashbucklers, does that give monks full BAB?

Yes. Treat it like the two classes have been gestalted before you ever looked at them. Best of each for BAB and saves, all class features.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Yes. Treat it like the two classes have been gestalted before you ever looked at them. Best of each for BAB and saves, all class features.

That's not quite true.  Swashbuckler is missing a few features, and the monk has been extensively modified.  You can practically pick up four exotic weapon proficiencies at the get go, which is pretty cool. 

Monk

Swashbuckler is no more a class (it merges with monk). Monks gains simple weapon proficiency and then 4 exotic melee weapon proficiencies (and these weapons count as monk weapons for the monk class feature purposes). Monk does not get Improved Flanking, Lucky nor Acrobatic Mastery features. However he gets other features instead.

4th: Ki strike (magic) and later improvements also apply when using monk weapons.

8th: Monk Weapon Mastery; Allows use wisdom bonus besides strength (or int if finessable) for weapon damage rolls with monk weapons and unarmed strikes. In 11th level damage dice grows by one with chosen monk weapons and it grows again in 15th level.

11th: Skill Mastery; Same as rogue talent but uses 1+wis mod formula to pick skills which monk can take 10 with.

Also monk gets bonus feats on 10th and 18th levels as well depending choices they made with earlier bonus feats (or ACF);

10th;
If took stunning fist = You get choose between Freezing the Lifeblood or Fists of Iron
If took draconic fist = You get ability to do breath attacks like dragons do! Once every 1d4 rounds you perform your unarmed strike damage amount damage on foes in 30'ft long cone or line (must choose which shape you took when gained the class feature, element damage is same as with draconic fist).
If took improved grapple = You get choose between Clever Wrestling or Close-Quarters Figthing
If took Soulwarp Strike = Your fists count to have ghost touched property and can use 1/5 monk level times per day Chill Touch as extraordinary ability. Save DC is based on wisdom.

18th; You have choice between Whirlwind Attack or Great Cleave feats.

From https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=210234.msg10329476#msg10329476

[Snake]

Question: as it pertains to bypassing DR

how are natural weapons handled? Are they all considered to be +6 value to bypass? or do we need to invest in that to work it up that high?

[TheGlyphstone]

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

[Snake]

Ah good. That's a relief to know for sure.

[PaleEnchantress]

Phantom, rogue is decent on it's own so it wasn't altered and probably won't be altered. However you can still use any official rogue variant like wilderness rogue or feat rogue if you feel the need to further customize it. If you can make a good case for racial substitution rogue levels Zaer is sometimes open to allowing it even if you arent specifically the race you're using the sub levels for.



PS: Look! I'm doing so good I haven't frightened anyone off yet! Does this mean I get a reward like one of the new PC's dismembered and delivered to me in a box labeled "Some assembly required?"

[PhantomPistoleer]

Phantom, rogue is decent on it's own so it wasn't altered and probably won't be altered. However you can still use any official rogue variant like wilderness rogue or feat rogue if you feel the need to further customize it. If you can make a good case for racial substitution rogue levels Zaer is sometimes open to allowing it even if you arent specifically the race you're using the sub levels for.

The rogue is pretty decent on his own, but I'm not really sure how much mileage someone will get out of the rogue class in this game.  As it stands, he just doesn't compare to the newly minted classes.  The monk/swashbuckler gets the best BAB, best saves, a 1d10HD, WIS to AC, WIS/INT to Dmg, plus various feats.  At level one, the monk gets four exotic weapon proficiencies, weapon finesse, stunning fist (or dodge, or combat expertise, or toughness, or something else), and improved unarmed combat.  Whereas the rogue only receives a mid-level BAB, good ref saves, and no solid "x stat to y" alternative.  It's just not comparable.

I know that the rogue is at the top of the Tier 4 and almost a Tier 3, but that's because he has UMD, 8+int skill points, and sneak attack per strike.  However, this game almost completely mitigates each of these.  The mystical side of the gestalt almost completely strikes UMD; the paragon template almost completely wipes out the usefulness of 8 + int skill points (and the nature of gestalt also strikes the diversity of the rogue's class skills); and most creatures at this level are immune to sneak attacks. 

The solution to all of this is obviously to just choose another class.  But, I just cannot agree that the rogue is a T4-->T3 within the paramaters of this game.  The class stands alone well, but it definitely doesn't gestalt well.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Rogues can sneak attack things which are immune to sneak attacks (if you take ACF variant). Also +13 insight bonus to special attacks applies to sneak attacks as well, you can add it to hit with sneak attacks or to number of sneak attack dices you roll. Think for a moment the burst damage potential of that sneak attack dice number. Sure shinobi (merged spellthief+ninja) can get similar high numbers with sudden strike which however does not work via flanking.

Also rogues can serve as feat giving class in place of Knight (if you do not want wear full plate and wield big weapons but want to be skill monkey but want loads of feats, rogue is class to go to). Also paragon +13 insight bonus can apply to rogues abilities which they gain at 10th level and after (those which can be classified as special attacks that is and this applies to any ambush feats granted tricks where you sacrifice sneak attack dice to do something like bleed dmg).

I haven't modified ranger class because ranger stands fine alone and people have taken ranger even as single class, same to rogue and also gestalt builds. However nobody would take monk or figther without comboing it with something else in gestalt (and at best take 3 levels as swashbuckler). So I wanted give to the lower tier classes a upragde so their solid tier 3 or even tier 2 choice for this game. However intention is not upragde ALL classes to tier 3 or above. It's your choice do you want take rogue or not, I am not forcing you and if you think rogue is too weak to take for your build which does not support rogue sneak attacks (which it's main feature for this game mostly; insane burst dmg), then do not take it. We got invisible stalker (who dispapeared) who got rogue levels and amongst all legendary monsters he had highest amount of melee dmg potential (and EP dmg also).

lockepick: Ixris looks almost ready (after +13 insight stuff is added in), I answer your PM soonish.

[Muse]

  Hey Zaer.  There's an item in the Draconomicon that looks horificly overpriced, based on a fourth level spell that should probably be first or second.  Do you thnk we can adust these? 

The item in question is called Jaws of the Dragon, from the Draconomicon:  (Atarn doesn't believe me but it looks like a 3.0 book to me.  ^_^;;) 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Jaws of the Dragon:
This complex metal device is worn in the mouth, fitting over the teeth while allowing them to protrude. A row of metal teeth is set into the  jaws of the dragon behind where the dragon’s teeth emerge, increasing the damage dealt by the dragon’s bite. The dragon gains the benefit of the  sharptooth spell while the jaws are worn. The device resizes to fit any creature as normal for a magic item, but creatures with no natural bite attack gain no benefit from wearing it.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, sharptooth;
Price 40,000 gp; Weight 8 lb.

Here's the Sharp Tooth spell from the Spell Compendium: 

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

SHARPTOOTH
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 4
Components: V, S
Ca sting Time: 1 standard
action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level You cast this spell, and your jaws glow with yellow, eldritch power, your muscles grow more powerful, and your teeth become sharper.
Choose one of your natural weapons (or your unarmed strike if you have no natural weapons). For the duration of the spell, that method of attack deals damage as though you were one size category larger than your actual size. This spell does not stack with itself.

Here's a second level druid spell from the Book of Erotic fanatsy that has the same effect--not limited to a single natural weapon--and lasts hours instead of rounds: 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1psShy6V1nIhydqCUUKu8Cz-g-scciIT0j1j-PpFrxQQ/edit?usp=sharing

Can we reprice the item based off of Engorged Strike?  Or even make it a +1 boonie for an Amulet of Mighty Fists? 

If we do it wtih Jaws of the Dragon, could we pay the price for an adamantine weapon?  :D

[Zaer Darkwail]

I say we modify the Jaws of the Dragon item so that the bite is treated magical (as if magic weapon had been cast on it), plus one size category increase and also bite attacks count to have adamantine material bonus (meaning ignoring hardness and DR bypassed by adamantine). But if want make custom items based on Sharptooth spell or engorged fist, then use usual custom item creation rules in DMG.

[PaleEnchantress]

The solution to all of this is obviously to just choose another class.  But, I just cannot agree that the rogue is a T4-->T3 within the paramaters of this game.  The class stands alone well, but it definitely doesn't gestalt well.

Funny you say that, guess that the main part of Widow Queen Boleyn's martial side is? Not that you should take rogue if you don't like what it offers in comparison to other options.

That said I can see a reason who rogue for me would be a super powerful choice and for you would be mediocre at best. I focus entirely on my magical aspects. To me rogue provided the perfect support for a wicked deception and manipulation focused magical mastermind.  You want to be more martially inclined, yes? For you it's a mediocre fighter with a few tricks.

Anyway are you having trouble deciding what to take instead of rogue? What did you like about rogue in the first place, the skill focus? The sneak attack? Was it just for trapfinding? Was it just the theme? All these things can be accomplished with other options if you  like.