Trump

[Deamonbane]

*dies*

[DominantPoet]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2000

Why is this pertinent?

During that conference today where he was talking about "he so smart"...he mentioned that he ran for President one time...and won. Now, you could take that as he's just bragging about his win again.

Buuuut, no, this is Trump. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/949619270631256064

He actually believes he did it on his first try!! I smell fake news!!

[persephone325]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

[Ket]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

Not joining the TPP.

Giving the asshats in our society the feeling that they are free to be the bigoted, multi-phobic people they truly are in their hearts and wearing their hatred on their sleeves, allowing them to be called out on their crap.

That's about it.

ETA: keeping my aunt from talking to me for more than 5 minutes at a time, praise jeezus

[TheGlyphstone]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

Honestly? He was the poke in the eye the old-guard establishment in both parties needed to wake them up and remember they have to pay attention to their base instead of spoon-feeding chosen candidates to the voters, and if we're lucky, he'll be the catalyst to shake off the malaise of voter apathy that has taken hold of the country.

[Lustful Bride]

Honestly? He was the poke in the eye the old-guard establishment in both parties needed to wake them up and remember they have to pay attention to their base instead of spoon-feeding chosen candidates to the voters, and if we're lucky, he'll be the catalyst to shake off the malaise of voter apathy that has taken hold of the country.

+1 and it made people more politically active and might serve as the right scare to the young and old.

Quote I feel is appropriate

[HannibalBarca]

Mark Hamill would be ten times the President Trump will ever be.  The man has a heart of gold.  Not to mention, his reading of Trump's tweets in his Joker voice are priceless...

[persephone325]

I love Mark Hamill. Lol

[RedEve]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

Between him and Brexit, he has strengthened the EU somewhat.
Not that they still don't have problems, but they are in a better place than they were a year ago.

[Aiden]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

Unifying states against him.  (His immigration policies, climate change, etc etc.)

Inspiring younger (and former non) voters and spurring them into action. Which we need to start turning the house and Senate in the upcoming years.

[Shores]

Up to Chapter 2 now. Here are my notes on Fire and Fury:

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Prologue: Ailes and Bannon
Introduction of Ailes and Bannon, major players in the book and old friends of Trump. Both right-wingers, Annual profits - Ailes’s Fox News at 1.5billion, Bannon’s Brietbart News at $1.5million. Brietbart was aligned with Trump and helped get elected. Trump had asked Ailes to takeover campaign, but was turned down, Ailes now regretful.

Ailes and Bannon discuss Trump and his cabinet choices, including Bolton’s mustache making Trump think he doesn’t look the part. “Well, rumors were that he got in trouble because he got in a fight in a hotel one night and chased some woman.”
“If I told Trump that, he might have the job.”

They discuss Israel, Russia, CIA, Obama, China, Jared Kushner, Rupert Murdoch. Nothing too substantial


Chapter 1: Election Day
Introduction of Kellyanne Conway and her preparations for after Trump loses. Only Bannon had believed Trump would win, but he was an odd man so not taken seriously. Trump expected to lose and start a Trump Network. Talks about the chaos of the election, people being replaced, and Trump saying they had the worst people. Trump refused to invest his own money into his own campaign, and only loaned it $10mill when they needed $50mill.

Billy Bush affair: “It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything. . . . Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”

Reince Priebus didn’t even want to go to Trump tower and had to be coaxed by Bannon after that.

Distance between Trump and Melania. Calls her a “trophy wife”, seeks approval from her. Believes he will win, though the thought is horrifying to her. Nude photoshoot leaked, “everybody other than Melania assumed could be traced back to Trump himself.” He told her it would be over in Nov.

Trump has little friends in politics. His staff has a lot of conflicts that could cause problems. Mike Flynn took $45k from Russians for a speech. Paul Manafort ““had spent thirty years representing dictators and corrupt despots, amassing millions of dollars in a money trail that had long caught the eye of U.S. investigators. What’s more, when he joined the campaign, he was being pursued, his every financial step documented, by the billionaire Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, who claimed he stole $17 million from him in a crooked real estate scam.”

No president and few politicians have come out of real estate business - depends on govt favour and has money laudering. Charlie Kushner, Jared’s dad, “had already spent time in a federal prison for tax evasion, witness tampering, and making illegal campaign donations.”

Trump disregard potential conflicts of interest, and does not release tax returns.

Chapter ends with how everyone would benefit from Trump losing, but then he wins, and Trump starts to believe he can be President.

Chapter 2: Trump Tower
After announcement of results, meeting with Rupert Murdoch. All the rich people have to rethink strategy. Grapple with how Trump knew only building construction, not much else, not even negotiating. Forceful personality.
“What is this ‘white trash’?” asked the model.
“They’re people just like me,” said Trump, “only they’re poor.”
Pursued his friend’s wife.
Start transitioning. He wanted to redirect funds earmarked for transitioning but was told he couldn’t.
Forced others to go to Trump Tower. “perp walk”.
Trump offered “people jobs on the spot, many of whom he had never met before, for positions whose importance Trump did not particularly understand.”
How Trump chose Chief of Staff:
Wanted Tom Barrack, who had helped bail out Trump, but Barrack “I’m just too rich” couldn’t untangle holdings, including big investments in Middle East.
Wanted Jared Kushner, but Ann Coulter told him he can’t hire his children.
Wanted Chris Christie, but Republican estab did not want, so got the job of leading transition and promise of attorney general or chief of staff. However, he had sent Charlie Kushner to jail. Ivanka did not want him.
Wanted Bannon but non- Tea Party Repubs did not. Extremely disorganised man.
Made Reince Preibus Chief of Staff. Went to talk to Trump - says the man keeps repeating himself. Trump was letting no one have power. Only CoS in name.
Jim Baker advised Preibus not to take the job.
Trump says the Billy Bush incident wasn’t him, to revise history. Trump is simple - flattery yes, calumny no.
High level delegation from Silicon Valley came to visit Trump Tower. Need H1-B visas, at odds with Trump immigration stance. “We’ll figure it out.”
Trump had been elected cos of business acumen, now has to deal with conflicts of interest.
Russia, Steele dossier, and CNN issue.

Initial impressions of the book and writing are that the writing is extremely incendiary and almost tabloid-ish. I'm not a fan of Trump being President (I think he was fine being his reality star self.) but the book causes more questions rather than producing more answers.

For example, the starting premise is that Trump never wanted to win and be President, and that he had plans for a Trump network. But if he's the narcissist that the book seems to imply, that would run contrary to expecting to lose.

I think the middle ground was left out, where Trump was aiming for President, but in the event that he lost, he had an exit strategy to make himself into a media mogul like the friends he knew - Ailes and Bannon.

The portrayal of Melania crying because Trump won and so her whole world was ruined is a lot of author speculation. There are winners who cry after winning, because it's a relief.

I think what the book is missing are proper interviews with the key personnel and questions being asked. Author was more like a fly on the wall, recording things in a biased manner against Trump. Book would also have benefited from investigating and reporting on Trump's childhood and past, and how it affected his decisions now. It seems to graze the gist of Trump without delving deep at the moment (Chapter 2).

Some of the writing and formatting is also a bit confusing. And the author refers to Charles Kushner as Charles or Charlie at times. Where is the Editor? This is bad for a worldwide release since overseas audience might not get that he's referring to the same person. Book would have benefited from going through an editor a few more times, but I understand they were pressed for time.

Would have been more impactful if there were more editing and balance.

[Arianna]

Unifying states against him.  (His immigration policies, climate change, etc etc.)

Inspiring younger (and former non) voters and spurring them into action. Which we need to start turning the house and Senate in the upcoming years.

+1

After going through the grief stages when he got elected, that was my first go to: first it was the Women's March, then the SC ruled against the immigration ban and ACLU was phenomenal in that course, then the major cities and most states went against him to fight against Global warming, and good things keep on arising from it, in spite of his crap.
That is definitely a positive. Maybe the U.S. needed an enema. And he's just that.

[Cassandra LeMay]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

It - almost - entirely depends on what you define as beneficial. While I, presonally, am tempted to agree with people who have posted here to the effect that it hasn't been much (if anything), your milleage may vary considerably, depending on what you consider an accomplishment or a worthwhile goal. It's entirely possible to view something as a loss or a win or neither, depending on where you are coming from. Just that some of us come at this from one direction does not mean our perspective is "correct".

Trump can actually win by losing. As long as he appears to be doing something his base cares for, that might well count as an accomplishment. If he fails achieving what he starts to do but can blaim that failure on the lamestream media, liberal justices, whomever else he dislikes, it might still count as a win. Perhaps not a policy accomplishment, but still a public relations accomplishment, as far as his base is concerned. He may have accomplished little that is beneficial to the people, but he may have accomplished at least a few things that are beneficial to him.

Writing off his first year as having accomplished little concrete as far as policy goes may be selling his wins slightly too short. Never underestimate the ability of a demagogue to fire up his base with whatever he does, no matter if it counts as a win or a loss.

[persephone325]

Fair point, Cassandra. Thank you everyone.

Something that I thought was funny yesterday; I caught a bit of Trump talking to some reporters really quickly. I don't know where he was, but he looked to be by himself outside somewhere. He was saying "taxes are good", and something else was "very good" (I forget what he said), and I think he said something along the lines of "everything is good". He ended it with "We're making America great again".

I looked at my mom and said "Making America great by making everything 'good'!" and she chuckled. I think that should be his new phrase. lol

[Trieste]

Wikileaks is rumored to have released the full text of the book online in an effort to bring down sales.

I'm ... honestly not sure that they realize that the general consensus is that people who pirate stuff also tend to be consumers of stuff if they like it ...

[gaggedLouise]

Something that sprung to my mind right now:

1. According to Wolff's book, Trump ran for presidency with no intention of winning.

2. Britain's former PM, Cameron, went through with the Brexit vote - with, as some sources suggest, no intention for Brexit actually to happen.

So, it seems that current global events are being shaped by irresponsible people who are unable of any kind of foresight regarding their own actions..?

When they're in a tight spot, with difficult, urgent problems that will affect all or most of us, they prefer the following course of action: keep kicking the can down the road.  ::)

The Eurozone debt crisis offers ample evidence of this, and so do (sadly) the handling of the European migrant crisis and the Syria war.

[ReijiTabibito]

Serious question; what beneficial (if any) thing(s) has he accomplished since taking office?

Accomplished?  Not a lot.

Caused?  Quite a few.

Glyph pointed this out, but Trump was basically the wake-up call the political establishment needed.  Him and Bernie Sanders, who I argue are two sides of the same coin, the coin being populist anger over the entrenchment of a class of political bodies that cares little to engage with the common voter and is more concerned with financing their next reelection campaign.  I've little doubt at this point that Trump is going to be a 1 term President, and that he himself will be a disastrous executive, but what he caused - not what he accomplished, what will be key to why he will be important in political history has nothing to do with anything he's done, I think - may bring a new revolution (of the Glorious sort) to the American landscape.

I think there's also one other beneficial thing...I can't really say whether or not he did it or caused it, but Trump got to the office by promising the people in the Blue Firewall that their vanished jobs would be staying or coming back, the economic thing they so desperately wanted to hear.  I think by now, the people who had voted for him for those reasons have realized, truthfully, that those jobs are not coming back, no matter what.  That they need to stop holding out for the right person to descend from on high and make everything better again for them.  The government - or this government, however you want to put it - is not coming to save them.  They need to get out there and figure out this for themselves.

[Shores]

Does the US have a fund to reskill workers? Our government gives working adults subsidies if they want to go for education in courses related to healthcare and IT, even if they're working in a different field currently. There's a lot of people doing mid-career switches over here.

[TheGlyphstone]

Does the US have a fund to reskill workers? Our government gives working adults subsidies if they want to go for education in courses related to healthcare and IT, even if they're working in a different field currently. There's a lot of people doing mid-career switches over here.

...we have to fight to keep giving out food stamps to people with no job at all. If the government over here tried handing out money to people who have a job just so they can get a different job, I think the GOP would have a collective aneurysm.

So let's try it, see what happens.

[Deamonbane]

The government doesn't do That, and if a company wants to pay for an employee's education, it is considered taxable income. That's to say, the employee has to pay the tax on that, while the company gets a tax break.

[Oniya]

Does the US have a fund to reskill workers? Our government gives working adults subsidies if they want to go for education in courses related to healthcare and IT, even if they're working in a different field currently. There's a lot of people doing mid-career switches over here.

We had (might still have) a thing for military folks to go to college, under the G.I. Bill.  I'm not sure if that's still a thing or if it got cut.

[Valerian]

We had (might still have) a thing for military folks to go to college, under the G.I. Bill.  I'm not sure if that's still a thing or if it got cut.

It's still a thing for the moment, but as of the last couple of years it covers far less than it used to.  You might be able to squeeze out four years at a tech college, but it's nowhere near covering four years at even the cheapest university.  When my dad left the Navy the G.I. Bill covered all his university tuition plus a little extra.  :/

[Mithlomwen]

We had (might still have) a thing for military folks to go to college, under the G.I. Bill.  I'm not sure if that's still a thing or if it got cut.

It's still a thing. 

My oldest is going into the Navy, and he asked about this to his Navy recruiter.  While he's active duty, if he wants to get any further education (like say he wants to go into the JAG program), the Navy will pay for it. Once he's no longer active duty, he can utilize the GI bill. 

[Cassandra LeMay]

With a heaping dose of forewarning: I AM NOT A LAWYER...

To have committed libel, Wolff and his publishers must have printed a claim of fact that is BOTH false, defamatory (did some kind of damage), ...

So if Trump and his legal team were able to meet the above-mentioned criteria, they can win a libel case. The hard part is proving damage, but since Trump's net worth is tied up in his 'brand' (and thus public perception of that brand), it's doable. ...

Spoiler alert: I am not a lawyer either.

That said, I think proving damages may not be necessary in this case. I could be wrong, but I think claiming that someone is unfit for an office they hold could count as defamation per se. In that case proving actual damage may not be necessary, at least until you want actual compensation instead of a cease and decist order.

[Oniya]

One of the aspects of libel/slander is that the claim is false...