Interest: D&D 3.5 Gestalt (Seeking GM/Group)

[NicciKotor]

It is certainly lively here. Looking forward to starting sometime soon, it looks like we are upto 5 ready characters now, the last one I am waiting for is from the abandoneddolly, and if she isn't available, we now got Aether on the waiting list, and Zaer.

Reading previous posts, we had RubySlippers along for the ride but she dropped out. Lots of turnover in the game.

That happens all the time. The important thing is we need more meat shields and people to do a slow motion midair lunge to protect Horo the Wise Wolf.

Also more pictures:

[Zaer Darkwail]

Hmmm, tank you say. Well I have concept for classic knight, prefering for half-elf because it does not get Con penalty and get all elf good looks ;).

Basically Knight 6|Figther 2/Paladin 4

(paladin got nice immunities and party friendly abilities and Cha mod to all saves nice as I do need Cha for knight side, just two levels of figther get all nice feats for tanking)

[NicciKotor]

Hmmm, tank you say. Well I have concept for classic knight, prefering for half-elf because it does not get Con penalty and get all elf good looks ;).

Basically Knight 6|Figther 2/Paladin 4

(paladin got nice immunities and party friendly abilities and Cha mod to all saves nice as I do need Cha for knight side, just two levels of figther get all nice feats for tanking)

I'm CG, and pallies would be a turn off. Law abiding citizens of petty human cultures is not at all sexy!

[Zaer Darkwail]

I'm CG, and pallies would be a turn off. Law abiding citizens of petty human cultures is not at all sexy!

Hmmm, how shield using singin barbarian then? Barbarian 6/Bard 6.

Anyways if I do play the knight he is not lawful stupid (well, expect he plays too fair in combat). After all the law applies how it's implemented by the person. So this case his lawful behavior is always keep his word, be honest (only lie if it's meant for good and even then a white lie) and not do criminal activity (altough breaking in enemy stornghold quietly sounds criminal but it's all for good cause).

I am not a paladin who asks; 'Can I do diplomacy check vs these mindless skeletons who are poking those poor goblins we killed hour ago?'

[Kate]

"Law abiding citizens of petty human cultures is not at all sexy!"

- Unless you like pirate-pirates ... those who steal from pirates, but to give back to whatever kingdom the stolen goods were taken from.

Good thing is if the hopefully grateful people don't feel inclined to pay you for the favor, its likely goodwill could be used for trade
contacts for you would have shown yourself to be trusted worthy with high valued treasures.

Next time they are in trouble ?
Who are they gonna call ?
Your friendly neighbourhood pirate sharks of course

stealing their treasure that they stole from others - wherever they have hidden it :), or to where what they want us to beleive it is anyway.

But its worth taking the risk, for if one thinks of it for a while they will realize that
ships are used to move the best of things nations have,
making a pirate's treasure hold
... a treasury,
of other ships,
other nations,
treasures.

literally.

We beat up the bullies
have a nose through what they have,
and if we like what we see ? .. then we have a lot of options  :)

If that isn't ethically, financially, romantically, adventurously, poetically a fun thing to try ... what would be ?

Arrrrr !

[Kate]

Rope Trick
Transmutation
Level:    Sor/Wiz 2
Components:    V, S, M
Casting Time:    1 standard action
Range:    Touch
Target:    One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long
Duration:    1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw:    None
Spell Resistance:    No

When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.

Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot by 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.

Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.
Material Component

Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment.

That's 8 tonnes !

For the spell to be permanent:

  3rd level caster x 2nd level spell x 2000 = 12 000 gp.

  cost of material x 50 normal cost (need to as a spell component)

   typically silk rope = 10 gp for 60 ft - price wise
   assume using same amount of silk but pleated to into 6 feet or so of much
   stronger rope   (10 times as strong as used as normal silk rope)
   => 500 gp for the rope
   12 000 gp for it to be enchanted permetantly.

   12 500 gp to lift 8 tons

[Wintercat]

You might fix something to hang from the sky with that set of spells. The question is, will that truely benefit you? The ship would be affixed to a certain place in the air by those ropes, I don't think the 'anchor points' are made movable, at least I don't see that in the description. I might be wrong but it does make me wonder a little. Creative idea I wont argue that, just curious to hear others comments.

Anyway, it might be useful in some cases but I don't think its the key to having a ship flying around.

[NicciKotor]

So we are going with the boat and island hoping campaign setting? I was hoping for the monster hunter route. Oh well, it just means I need to change around my domains and spell selection.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Yay for ocean going!  I hope my survival and profession (seamanship) will come into use.

[NicciKotor]

Horo the Wise Wolf going out to sea. With Fharlanghn as a god and travel and weather as domains. Muwhahaha, I get to fly AND cast call lightning. That will help wonders with the tedium and stark boredom of being stuck on a boat with smelly humans.

[Wintercat]

"Oi, I just bathed last month." One of the sailors muttered in a grumbling tone, scratching the armpit of his once-white shirt, the earthly brown and black stains along it having made it hard to tell what it once was, but as he walked away with the worn old boots the elvish man leaning to the mast nearby chuckled. "Don't mind him, he's just pissed because last time at the shore he ran into some real trouble. The lass he tried to woo told him of this wonderful invention, soap, and then her boyfriend slugged him in the jaw."



Anyhow, little jokes aside, it looks like people are getting ready at a good pace. I'm waiting for 1 person anymore it seems, and we got 2 ready to take her place if she drops out.

[Kate]

You might fix something to hang from the sky with that set of spells. The question is, will that truely benefit you? The ship would be affixed to a certain place in the air by those ropes, I don't think the 'anchor points' are made movable, at least I don't see that in the description. I might be wrong but it does make me wonder a little. Creative idea I wont argue that, just curious to hear others comments.

Anyway, it might be useful in some cases but I don't think its the key to having a ship flying around.

It is implied as there is only mention of the rope is lifted veritcally, thus if the bottom moved the point about it verically would move. I also think because the spell was cast on the rope ... not enchanting an area to attract ropes, or an area to attract a specific rope. It is cast on the rope.

But there are additional complications .. the strange part about extradimentional beings to me is a little silly - would love the idea of the gm dropping that a portal you can create as a low level mage which opens into a dimention of creatures hungry to pull ropes... but only ropes ? ... really. Treating it as a "rope trick" from an effect point I think could work... but it does have addtional issues that doesnt solve the problem on their own.

For a ship to be viable it has to be able to vary how much these things as a whole effect the ship, and be able to turn them off and on at will.

So its more likely there has to be a cerntal point or plague or something that can enable you to command these ropes to dance for the ship or not... and they can't be simply attacked to the deck - but more likely linked to other ropes and each other indirectly in a system of pulley's which would be like a "loom" in a deck below - that mainly balance loads when different ones are being turned on or off at will.

So even if the storyteller was ok with it you would need  6-8 of them... all linked with a elaborate pulley and rope system
that takes up the better part of some level on the ship.

So probably 20 000 gp or more on that network of under-deck ropework, perhaps the same for a plaque that can turn individual ones off and on easily.

So realistically (assuming my rope trick view is acceptable).

12500 gp x however many sets of 8 tonnes you want to lift
? gp for a plaque to control them
? for silk-rope linked-loom for distribution their individual tensions.
? For re-rigging or creating a new ship that uses this strange under-deck rigging methodology.

This doesn't help with forward locomotion though, but i thought would be one way to have literal flight feasible.

[NicciKotor]

If you want to give us a kick ass boat, just go to Stormwrack. In there is a magic paddlewheel boat that only requires one person to operate.

[Kate]

I don't want us to have kick ass boat.

I want us to have a kick ass flying-ship :)

We don't even have to be on it - its just an option we have, that frees us to do stuff or exploit otherwise unreachable areas.

Some weird mine at the top of a mountain ?
Or anything cool beyond those insanely dangerous waters ?

We could be the first there.

Or the first to have been there in a very ... very ... very ... very long time.

The idea wasn't "how cool it would be to role play being on it" more

"How could would it be to role play in the places this could could get to?"

What is within a days journey or two is a LOT more options,
resettling a group of (hopefully grateful) mis-placed people
or a lot of supplies quickly is feasible.

If the "rope trick- lift" idea is deemed ok, the ship would groan a lot and lurch in similar ways it does with waves at sea.
For waves at sea would come from about the same angles, lift an area suddenly or the opposite, and ships hulls are designed to deal with that.

We just would be making one that that can happen on the inside of the hull as well.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Also note Explorer's Guide (from Eberron setting) sourcebook list price for air or fire elemental powered airship. It is 100,000gp and has storage space and room for small crew (around 12 crew members + passengers). Ofc it has ruling you need control the elemental with charisma and either have rebuke elementals ability or bear dragonmark but those reguirements could be waved off.

[Kate]

thank for the thought but the idea of trapping something to help doesn't feel right.
It doesn't feel free.

I contemplated having a permanent summon vermin spell active within a hollow deck, and something below it that casts
"Repell vermin" below it.

Then I thought ... omg ... thats wrong ! ... i just think using ropes / wind keeps the romantic feel of a ship,
and the romance of being in the clouds.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Why not permament levitate spell on normal ship and let sails control movement forward and to sides like in sea? Only add lead weigths (or sand sacks) to add weight so the ship does not constantly float upward and drop sand sacks if you want more height. If want go down then lower anchor and just pull ship down closer to the ground.

[Kate]

Reverse gravity, Levitation, telekinesis, floating disk are much much more expensive than this option.

[Zaer Darkwail]

True, but the ship would not much move. As when you cast the spell on rope the 'dimensional' hole what it creates is on fixed location (it cannot move, even if tarrasque tries pull the rope and even then likely rope just snaps broken). Your simply anchoring the rope to other dimension where you can climb and take refuge. At least how I understand how the spell works but you can try prove me wrong ;). Anycase the bottom of the rope can be moved and pulled but the rope is still anchored to one location. As you can pull the rope in to the other dimension to prevent uninvited guests. But if you want find way how control ropes, animate rope spell on rope trick ropes could work.

[NicciKotor]

If we are going flying ship, then we need to go classic final fantasy. Classic as in before FFVII and everything became emo and shitty. Where airships where made out of wood and were moved by a lot of propellers!

[Kate]

When I read it to me it implies the ropes upward motion doesnt act like an anchor point.

If I cast it say on my horse to a rope strapped to its saddle ... because its a rope trick i would expect it to stay upwards vertical
while the horse is moving. It it didn't then as the horse could gallop away it would be come more horizontal (ie you could make a fence with it).

It is implied as there is only mention of the rope is lifted vertically, thus if the bottom moved the point about it vertically would move.

I also think because the spell was cast on the rope my take feels more right,
for one is not enchanting an area in the sky to to attract ropes, or an area in the air to attract a specific rope.

It is cast on the rope. (which has a vertical point that is directly below what its braced to.... ie the upward pull would move with the base... ie the rope trick on the horse would stay vertical ( can't create fences with it )

Also it says "A weight greater than that can pull the rope free." ... not

"A tension greater than x pounds is to be applied to tug the rope from the created ankor point"

[Zaer Darkwail]

Altough it says vertically it does not mean you can move it from that vertical point. Altough it does not say directly you cannot move it, it also does not mean you can move it. The wording of the spell is just lacking and leaving it up to imagination and GM decision does the rope let move the hole in any position. If you what speak is true, then why would not mages use that spell and make rope invisible and let some invisibile animal to pull it so they can fly invisible to enemy fort? Not to mention become stealth bombard plane basically with that tactic (if animal is strong and able to fly).

So far as I have met and talked about methods get cheap airship, none have considered this one because most all assume rope trick is stuck on fixed location. If it would not be, the spell would become quite a lot broken so many ways beyond concerns of making cheap airship.

At least my opinion about the matter.

[Kate]

hmm.

Well i guess we can leave it as the storytellers decision.

btw Z what do you mean

If it would not be, the spell would become quite a lot broken so many ways beyond concerns of making cheap airship.

[Zaer Darkwail]

'Broken' I mean several ways exploit said spell. You can use it as fishing net to capture enemies and throw in bag of holding for some dimensional warping fun example. Or simply snare foe in and then dismiss rope trick spell early (by just using spring attacking class). You can kidnap people in and carry them off without save. Also edges of any dimensional portals are extremely sharp (my own GM ruling mostly but mention it anyway). So with such sharp edges you can slice and dice foe who gets partially inside the rope trick space by just quickly flipping it around.

All above tricks; ask no saves nor SR. A common trait shared with broken spells.

[Kate]

the storyteller would permit a reflex save.

Personally a lot of this is the call of the storyteller.

The idea of things being "trapped in the extra dimensional stuff" just doesn't feel right. For creating a "portal to another dimension" level two spell ?

I do agree how how the spell "rope trick" works in the storytellers world is vital.

Even if it was permitted, with all the extra pulleys and stuff - still looking at 200 000 gp to be feasible.

... no wonder sky-ships are rare - if they do exist at all.

If a flying ship is something that interests others - cool, how that is done I am open on.

I am also open on role playing without it being feasibile / ie if we choose another option other than option a :)