What are you playing? [SPOILER TAGS PLEASE]

[Inkidu]

I have this to say for pc based tbs games.

Starcraft.

Uh... I've played RTSs on consoles. I've beaten RTSs on consoles, and the interfaces aren't bad. It's just a learning curve is all. Once you get it down it's easy to set numbered groups, place rally points and all that good stuff. Command & Conquer 3, in case you were wondering. Also Read Alert 3.

I even worked out how to play Shogun 2 on consoles. I agree with Brandon. It's all about how much care a developer puts into their port.

[Hemingway]

Someone playing Starcraft on a console would not be able to compete with someone playing it on a PC. It is, quite simply, impossible. As for playing Starcraft on a console against someone on a console? Sure, it's doable. I prefer strategy games on PC over consoles any day, but ... I mean, Halo Wars? Pretty good game.

[Inkidu]

Someone playing Starcraft on a console would not be able to compete with someone playing it on a PC. It is, quite simply, impossible. As for playing Starcraft on a console against someone on a console? Sure, it's doable. I prefer strategy games on PC over consoles any day, but ... I mean, Halo Wars? Pretty good game.

Yeah, I'm not saying that consoles handle as well, but you could have console vs. console it's fine. They'll never cross unless consoles start selling keyboards and mice.

[Sabby]

Hey, they have USB ports...

[Inkidu]

Hey, they have USB ports...

I know, and you only need to put a USB port on the keyboard for the mouse so it doesn't use up both of them. No one ever thinks of this stuff.

[Sabby]

Yup, hardcore PC users are a lot like devout Creationists. They want proof of your wild claims? Here, take my transitional fossils and connect my keyboard and mouse to my Xbox.

Next day, they're back on webcam declaring there is NO EVIDENCE that an RTS can work on an Xbox, and we're still 6000 years old.

[Inkidu]

Yup, hardcore PC users are a lot like devout Creationists. They want proof of your wild claims? Here, take my transitional fossils and connect my keyboard and mouse to my Xbox.

Next day, they're back on webcam declaring there is NO EVIDENCE that an RTS can work on an Xbox, and we're still 6000 years old.

And that PCs did not evolve from monkeys! D:<

I think I might be losing the analogy. Nah! No PC monkeys!

[Hemingway]

And that PCs did not evolve from monkeys! D:<

I think I might be losing the analogy. Nah! No PC monkeys!

You lost it when you said "evolve from monkeys". Monkeys are humans are both descended from a common ancestor. Ahem.

I was going to rant about how Syndicate is a terrible game. Instead, I ended up with more evidence that PCs are superior to consoles. I think I mentioned mouse lag in Syndicate. It's a pretty big problem. It means you have to "time" your aiming, and even if it's only a few milliseconds, it makes playing the game feel ... it feels slow and ... just wrong.

Well, I looked it up, and there's an easy fix. All you need to do is go to your video card's settings in the controls panels, find the settings specific to the game, and force it to disable vsync ( which isn't possible in the game's settings ). Problem solved. No mouse lag.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that PCs have a lot of advantages. One of those is being able to change the game's settings via tools and config files, in a way that a console doesn't let you.

[Oniya]

And that PCs did not evolve from monkeys! D:<

I think I might be losing the analogy. Nah! No PC monkeys!

Don't be silly.  They evolved from toasters.

[Bayushi]

The problem isnt people playing on cosoles, the problem is the industry considering the PC market a 3rd wheel of sorts. Every game needs to be optimized for each platform but they arent. This is why we get the majority of games without FoV options and with horrible UI's on PC.

The problem is also the massive number of console monkey lemmings. These lemmings eat up every sequel/sub-sequel to a shitty franchise like it's water in a desert (see Modern Warfare and Halo), and that's the people that game makers are aiming their games for.

Consoles have sub-standard hardware and go five-plus years between real updates/upgrades. PC games improve significantly yearly, if not faster. Well, they do now. They may not continue to do so now, considering that what few new PC games we get now tend to be terrible console ports (Syndicate is one of them).

I'm not a fan of all of my games being simplified to a point a retarded, one-flippered sea lion could faceroll the game with little trouble.

Something tells me that the US needs fit for purpose laws similar to the UK so we can really stick it to the companies who dont make proper ports for the PC platform.

Indeed!

Syndicate is a glaring example of the problem. In fact, TotalBiscuit answered a question in one of his Mailbox videos (on YouTube) regarding the problems with the game (like the fixed FoV giving people nausea and/or vertigo), and that neither developer nor the publisher is willing to put in any work to update/patch the game. He also brought up the Fit for Purpose law that the UK has, regarding the fact that people should be suing Starbreeze and EA under the Fit for Purpose law.

[Brandon]

Well that law isnt the same as suing someone. Basicly it states that you have a right to a refund if your product is not fit for purpose. So arguably, FoV options are one thing that make a game unfit for purpose (that purpose being playing it on the PC). You could go to a retailer and excersise your rights to a refund, unlike most retailers in the US who will only refund if you have an unopened box

What this does is, when there are refunds the retailers go back to the publisher (and by extension developer) and say "What the hell? We're having to refund all these copies because your game isnt fit for the platform". This also makes retailers think twice before buying these products again from the same company. Too many refunds on to many products will mean a retailers will refuse to do any business with them.

[Inkidu]

The problem is also the massive number of console monkey lemmings. These lemmings eat up every sequel/sub-sequel to a shitty franchise like it's water in a desert (see Modern Warfare and Halo), and that's the people that game makers are aiming their games for.

Consoles have sub-standard hardware and go five-plus years between real updates/upgrades. PC games improve significantly yearly, if not faster. Well, they do now. They may not continue to do so now, considering that what few new PC games we get now tend to be terrible console ports (Syndicate is one of them).

I'm not a fan of all of my games being simplified to a point a retarded, one-flippered sea lion could faceroll the game with little trouble.Indeed!

Syndicate is a glaring example of the problem. In fact, TotalBiscuit answered a question in one of his Mailbox videos (on YouTube) regarding the problems with the game (like the fixed FoV giving people nausea and/or vertigo), and that neither developer nor the publisher is willing to put in any work to update/patch the game. He also brought up the Fit for Purpose law that the UK has, regarding the fact that people should be suing Starbreeze and EA under the Fit for Purpose law.

Oh please. Some PC gamers eat up crappy sequels just as badly. That's hardly something exclusive to the console market. However, I'll point out that you've kind of foisted yourself here in pointing one of the big reasons consoles are dominating PCs right now. PCs are an unstable platform. While a console provides 5+ years of stability. Now ask yourself what's easier to invest in and easier to develop for. Now, I'm with you. I should not be getting crappy ports for console no more than you should be getting crappy ports for PC. 

The PC is already a diverse platform that requires a much larger run of tests, but when you add in updates in hardware and software... well I imagine there are developers who cry themselves into a corner at night over it. Honestly, I've never seen graphics good enough to justify a PC. That might be my heathen tastes. I don't care if Mass Effect 3 on PC has 30 extra fps. (I just picked it because it was the last factoid of hard data I know about PC/Console difference)

Graphics aren't why I play games. :) So don't go all stabby on me or you're no better than the console lemmings you despise. ;D

Brandon: Actually, if that law were passed and I were a developer I would never make a game for PC again. Again, the varied performance specs for PCs and there constant updating. I'd be more than willing to play it safe on the console with its uniform specs. That just strikes me as more pragmatic.

[Sabby]

You lost it when you said "evolve from monkeys". Monkeys are humans are both descended from a common ancestor. Ahem.

Hmmm... now that I'm caffeinated and thinking way too much on things that don't matter (in other words, GOOD MORNING =D) wouldn't consoles and modern gaming computers share a common ancestor as well? Just one has settled into a much more static environment and so doesn't need constant evolution to keep alive. The Xbox is the sturdy old crocodile who will probably still be here in 65,000,000 comparative years where as the PC is an early primate that's probably going to go through a dozen more evolutionary transitions because it just can't keep it's nose out of strange, threatening environments.

[Hemingway]

Just one has settled into a much more static environment and so doesn't need constant evolution to keep alive.

I don't think that's really a healthy thing. A computer is like a disease, though only in the sense that it evolves very quickly to adapt to whatever challenges it meets. Consoles, they're like ... probably one of the 99% of all species that are now extinct. Small changes they're able to deal with, but anything major and you have to wait for the next generation!

[Sabby]

Yep. I'll enjoy my crocodiles as long as their swamps are here :3

[Inkidu]

Hmmm... now that I'm caffeinated and thinking way too much on things that don't matter (in other words, GOOD MORNING =D) wouldn't consoles and modern gaming computers share a common ancestor as well? Just one has settled into a much more static environment and so doesn't need constant evolution to keep alive. The Xbox is the sturdy old crocodile who will probably still be here in 65,000,000 comparative years where as the PC is an early primate that's probably going to go through a dozen more evolutionary transitions because it just can't keep it's nose out of strange, threatening environments.

I believe it's called the Commodore 64, that might be the common ancestor.

Hemingway: Actually it's more like a virus, becoming more resistant to modern developing styles an conventions so it gets harder to make software that effects it, causing developers to quarantine it.

Honestly though, even PCs are going to hit the glass ceiling with the graphics to cost ratio. In fact, it's declining sales over the last few years is kind of proof of that. However, the computer is more or less shifting directions from that big box in your study to that thing in your phone. The focus isn't on improving the computer these days, it's on getting the one in your pocket up to peak desktop performance. That's where the mainstream is dabbling, and we all know who gets the money.

There used to be a big graphical difference. It was obvious, but the gap is getting smaller. I've never seen graphics for a Modern PC game that really warranted the amount of cash I've seen my friends put into it. I just nod and smile and lie. Plato would be proud. We've only got one or two console generations left, unless someone discovers some kind of new, relatively inexpensive chip or video card we're quickly headed for a glass ceiling.

[Sabby]

Subscription based, streaming games are probably the next big change. I mean, companies like EA and Activision would probably cum rainbows once the technology becomes viable. Instead of a few hundred dollars blown per household to have the console, just pay the subscription fee, sign up to a service, and tap into the tower sized Mega Xbox being constantly upgraded in Cheyenne Mountain. All you'd really need is a controller, internet connections will one day be so common and so powerful that sending input back and forth wouldn't be a problem.

This would mean that shit like Gotham City Imposters would be the standard, and if you don't pay your monthly fee or they just decide to, you lose ALL your games. Not just the one you got in trouble on, you lose your service, and that's the only connection to your games you have. It's like Netflix, I guess. We're going there, and as much as I hate it, I can't see a way around it :/

[Inkidu]

Subscription based, streaming games are probably the next big change. I mean, companies like EA and Activision would probably cum rainbows once the technology becomes viable. Instead of a few hundred dollars blown per household to have the console, just pay the subscription fee, sign up to a service, and tap into the tower sized Mega Xbox being constantly upgraded in Cheyenne Mountain. All you'd really need is a controller, internet connections will one day be so common and so powerful that sending input back and forth wouldn't be a problem.

This would mean that shit like Gotham City Imposters would be the standard, and if you don't pay your monthly fee or they just decide to, you lose ALL your games. Not just the one you got in trouble on, you lose your service, and that's the only connection to your games you have. It's like Netflix, I guess. We're going there, and as much as I hate it, I can't see a way around it :/

Thankfully I think that's a long way away. I don't think there's enough high-speed internet, and there are other glass ceilings on the mount of data that can be streamed across a line at a time.

[Hemingway]

Syndicate is a rare type of game. Action games normally lack an interesting story and make up for it by being fun. Syndicate has poor gameplay, but a pretty interesting setting and story. I can't think of a lot of games like that.

[Bayushi]

Thankfully I think that's a long way away. I don't think there's enough high-speed internet, and there are other glass ceilings on the mount of data that can be streamed across a line at a time.

Not to mention that it would leave about 50% of the potential American out of the picture.

Broadband proliferation in the United States is poor, at best. Cities (which house about 30% of the population) tend to have great broadband infrastructure, where small towns are just starting to catch up (lived in a small town in Virginia who didn't even have digital cable television until 2001, much less DSL), and most rural customers have no broadband at all. In fact, I lived outside of aforementioned small town for a time, and both AOL or NetZero REFUSED to provide service due to our remote location.

We will eventually reach that model, I'm sure, but it will be a long long time coming. Possibly not even before 2100, well after I'm gone.

[Hemingway]

I went old school. I fired up Baldur's Gate 2 again. I ground to a halt in the Underdark last time, so now I'm trying to make it out of that god-forsaken place.

On that note, apparently BioWare are re-releasing BG and BG2 in an updated version this summer. It'll be interesting to see what they do. I think it might turn out good. I like the old games, but they're seriously flawed in many ways. If they make combat less broken, that'll be a vast improvement.

[Inkidu]

I went old school. I fired up Baldur's Gate 2 again. I ground to a halt in the Underdark last time, so now I'm trying to make it out of that god-forsaken place.

On that note, apparently BioWare are re-releasing BG and BG2 in an updated version this summer. It'll be interesting to see what they do. I think it might turn out good. I like the old games, but they're seriously flawed in many ways. If they make combat less broken, that'll be a vast improvement.

Yeah, fuck BioWare and the horse it rode in on. I'm done. BioWare is now with Blizzard and Square-Enix on my List of Developers I Would Gladly Take an Active and Knowing Hand in Bringing to Complete and Utter Perdition! (TM).

[Hemingway]

Yeah, fuck BioWare and the horse it rode in on. I'm done. BioWare is now with Blizzard and Square-Enix on my List of Developers I Would Gladly Take an Active and Knowing Hand in Bringing to Complete and Utter Perdition! (TM).

I hate to say it, because I've been a huge fan of BioWare and I still can't quite believe they'd disappoint me so thoroughly, but they are no longer on the list of companies I trust to put out quality work that never fails to impress me. I'm definitely going to be more critical of the next game they put out. Baldur's Gate is different because everything's already in place - it's an enhanced remake.

*Sigh.*

First Bethesda, now BioWare. Who will go next?

And who remains, at this point? It might sound weird, but Obsidian might be the closest thing I have to a favorite company now. Which ... you know. It's Obsidian.

[Inkidu]

I hate to say it, because I've been a huge fan of BioWare and I still can't quite believe they'd disappoint me so thoroughly, but they are no longer on the list of companies I trust to put out quality work that never fails to impress me. I'm definitely going to be more critical of the next game they put out. Baldur's Gate is different because everything's already in place - it's an enhanced remake.

*Sigh.*

First Bethesda, now BioWare. Who will go next?

And who remains, at this point? It might sound weird, but Obsidian might be the closest thing I have to a favorite company now. Which ... you know. It's Obsidian.

Oh, I don't hate the story. Nope, I can live with the story. In a way it works and it doesn't. No, my problem is they (like Blizzard) have begun punishing people who don't have high speed, multiplayer supporting internet. Screw fixing the story, fix that you company of jackasses!

I don't think they lack quality as far as gameplay or story goes, in fact it's a good game save one bad design choice; and this executive fuckover from on high just is the straw the broke the camel's back. I have no need for companies who force the internet down my throat.

[Sabby]

Look, Bioware is owned by EA. Until I see proof that the Multiplayer thing was cooked up by Bioware employers, I'm going to pin it on EA forcing the matter. I'm open to it being the other way around, but really, what's more likely? Bioware, a company that has always done us right, (and it's only real fuck up was Dragon Age 2, which didn't get the attention it would have BECAUSE OF MASS EFFECT 3) or EA, that knows damned well half assed multiplayer has the market cornered and the greatest single player game ever is always a gamble when close to a new Call of Duty.

Do the math.

Also, putting it in spoiler tags, because like me, some of you consider gameplay elements spoilers, but there is no story stuff, if you wanna read :)

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Just upgraded the Claymore shotgun and Shockwave power all the way. Ya know what the Claymore is? It's the closest thing you'll get to an anti-dreadnaught round in portable size. The thing will one-shot a Cerberus Centurian in full armor from across the level, and Shockwave suspends people mid air after it collapses their organs and propels them into the ceiling. I just put 7 Cerberus soldiers into the air and killed all of them with one Claymore shot. One shot. Punted them all right out of the field. It's bloody amazing.