Beyond Two Souls [Spoiler tags please!]

[Inari]

Since this was announced at E3 two years ago waited and now I finally have it and have been playing it. (5 hours and counting!) So far I am finding it very interesting indeed although as I have played it the other half has read a few reviews out to me that have basically panned it. I really don't understand what their problem is to be honest. Although the main issue seems to be the way the story is told and the fact it is quick time heavy. Both of these points were raised at the damn E3 conference... I guess I was the only one awake when Beyond Two Souls was introduced to us for the first time. =/

This game is a psychological thriller and mostly relies on quick time events just like in it's predecessors Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) and Heavy Rain. The story telling is done in a rather unique way to say the least and the graphics are simply amazing. It is also a muti-outcome game, so pretty much everything you do has a influence. While it holds your hand at first it then heavily relies on the audience to pay attention to all the hard work the creators put into it to truly get the fullest experience.

So far I have been enjoying travelling to different points in Jodie's life and controlling Aiden. (Although he can be fiddly.) The battle scenes with other world monsters are simply beautiful... something I never thought I would ever say about an intense fight. I have also been enjoying the music score which has definitely added to the atmosphere of the game.

All in all I am really enjoying playing this game and seriously don't understand the problems people are claiming to be wrong with it. Unlike a lot of games these days this one has the hallmarks that the creators actually cared about what they were making.

Anyway, enough from me. What do you guys think of it?

[Shjade]

The PC port's pretty terrible. Unplayable, in fact.

[Sabby]

There's a PC port? Whats wrong with it? o.o

[SinXAzgard21]

There is no PC port.

[Inari]

I think he was thinking of Dark Souls. To my understanding it has been patched it works fine now.

[Chris Brady]

Fan patched at first.  Off topic.

I've tried the demo of David Cages latest 'work', and frankly, it's just as bad as Heavy Rain was.  A Quick Time Event fest, with little to no actual interaction with the characters.

Worse, I feel hypocritical about it.  I mean, I LIKE QTE's when done well.  God of War, in MY opinion has some of the best in the gaming industry.  And I actually like 'scripted' characters, because I find that the silent protagonists doesn't really work outside of the old 16 bit era RPGs (And only Chrono Trigger and the various Breath of Fires did it well enough for me) because I find that the other NPCs talk AT you, rather than WITH you.  But with this?  It's...  I came in with an open mind, at least, I hope I did.  I'd like to think I did...  I just... Can't like it.  I'm trying, but it's...  Dull.

[Inari]

My other half corrected me after I made the post and it is sad that it had to be fan patched. D:

The thing all of their games have been quick time event ones. (Apart from Omikron The Nomad Soul) The best way to describe this is it is an interactive movie that requires the players attention to detail. I would say unless you want to play a game that pulls someone in with the story and has no real work then don't bother with it. I am really enjoying it.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

They class my Aiden as an possessive, unforgiving, violent entity because of my actions in the game so far. I also enjoyed trolling myself. XD

[Shjade]

There's a PC port? Whats wrong with it? o.o

There isn't one. Thus its unplayability.

[Sasquatch421]

I'm enjoying it myself and I love the fact they brought Willem Dafoe in on it... The birthday party is still my favorite part so far. I know it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I'm one of the few anymore that prefer story.

[Chris Brady]

Actually, I've heard that the party is the best part of the game.  The rest sort of...  Peters out.  Then again, what do I know, all I tried was the demo.  So I could be very wrong.

[Inari]

I tried the two player with a friend. I downloaded the app for my Android... at first it was fun but after a while it stopped working. Luckily we have a special connector so I could play it with the 360 controller (our other PS3 controller is broken) and for the time we played it it was hella fun. I knew what was going to happen and was cooking dinner while my friend played as Jodie and I played as Aiden. Once she was at the party I heard her yell "Wha... those fucking wankers!" I then ran to her side got her out and asked what she wanted... revenge it was! I ended up knocking them all out... though I am wishing I stabbed one of them and burned down the house instead. D:

[I dont know]

Good movie, bad game.

I really enjoy the story and graphics, but the gameplay is so limited. You can't control your character in fights and while driving.

[Sabby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im7ZegcoJLM

My opinion of David Cage.

[Chris Brady]

"David Cage has mistaken holding his dick in his hands for having his finger on the pulse of the video game industry." Troy Baker, Voice Actor, latest known role, Joker in Batman:Arkham Origins.

[Suiko]

I enjoyed Heavy Rain and I'm enjoying Beyond, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking they're games.

I'm enjoying them as interactive movies, and I'm getting a bit more out of Beyond because me and a friend can 'play' it together. The characters are pretty fun, the story is interesting enough that I'm enjoying nyself... but I wish I hadn't spent £35 on it.

Also there is no doubt that David Cage is an idiot, but still. Hehe.

[Chris Brady]

Ellen Page and Willem Defoe are very well written, the problem is that the rest of the characters are not.  That's jarring.

[Suiko]

There's not enough Defoe so far for my liking. He's brilliant.

[Koren]

I think the problem that people are having, is that they are thinking about it specifically within the very restrictive confines of the stereotypical definition of a VIDEO GAME

Its not. Its an experience. Just like heavy rain is. And personally, I hated heavy rain, but I understood what it tried to do and I appreciated the fact that they tried it and that they were willing to broach the topics in the way that they did.

But honestly, at least you can see that they have learnt going from Heavy Rain to Beyond: Two Souls.
The controls are updated and for the most part improved, as is the level of interactivity.
And if nothing else, Beyond: Two Souls does an amazing job of broaching topics that not games, or films, or anything really get near breeching so easily and publicly, such as homelessness, and powerlessness and even abandonment.
I do think that it messes up in the fact that the timeline isnt linear, and while that serves it in some parts, as its interesting to go back and see where things went wrong, in other parts it does break the tension. I do think in part this was aided by the fact though that people didnt realise that before each chapter you get shown a timeline of her life and it shows where the current chapter lies.

And please, do not start hating on David Cage. I will be the first to admit that there are a lot of egotistical idiots out there who are making games because they think its cool, and just want to give it a shot, but really, game design is an art, and a damn difficult one at that, and its hard enough being involved in that industry without every consumer who doesn't understand or fully enjoy a game jumping on you every time they can, and when you are still developing or even trying something new.

And personally, I really dont understand the hate for this game when The Last of Us which had far more broken mechanics and story, even if its controls were smoother, got so much love where it was pretty much just a bundles of cliches that you can see a mile off.

Im sorry for the mini rant, but its really starting to bug me how much people, especially indies, get attacked for TRYING something new, over and over.

[Hemingway]

I love it. What's more, my girlfriend loves watching me play it, for the story and occasionally to shout out "KISS!! MAKE THEM KISS!!" ( think internet meme )

I'd have to say the winter bit of the game was especially good, and powerful, too. It's something I think a lot of people would benefit from seeing.

It's also got far fewer QTEs than Heavy Rain. And if that somehow makes it less of a 'game', then you're missing the point.

[Chris Brady]

I think the problem that people are having, is that they are thinking about it specifically within the very restrictive confines of the stereotypical definition of a VIDEO GAME

This argument always gets a WTF??? from me.  'Stereotypical'?  Seriously?  A game is pretty well defined, and this 'game' skirts the wrong side of the line.

Im sorry for the mini rant, but its really starting to bug me how much people, especially indies, get attacked for TRYING something new, over and over.

Night Trap wants to have a word with Mr. Cage, then.  It wants it's 'gameplay' back.  Oh, and Dragon's Lair is also asking for a cease and desist.  This is not new, just underused.  And for good reason.  (And for the record, I LIKE QTEs, when done well.)

Mr. Cage is NOT trying anything new.  In fact, the man's obsession with photorealism brings his own games down.  See, there are two parts to a stereotypical video game, the graphics and the actual engine.  And the sad part of it is, if you focus on one, the other suffers.  A good game balances requires both, which means it's not quite as pretty to look at.  Thing is, the other half, the hidden half, AI, physics, collision detection and all things that make a game fun, that takes up the rest of the space, but you can't have both being super awesome, either you focus on one, or the other.  Or you make a decent looking game, with fun gameplay.

Nintendo games, for a while, focused mainly on gameplay, so the graphics tend not to be as good as they 'could' be, but the games were fun.  On the flip side, Square Enix has always made some really pretty games for the console, but really, most of their older RPGs, like FF7 to 10, it was 'push the button, watch the animation', which is enjoyable, but not very deep (arguably, you could say the story was part of the draw, but...  YMMV on that, people have differing views on what's a good story.)

Of his recent work, Mr. Cage is more the Square Enix side of it, making vapid, but pretty games that some people praise as 'innovative' when in reality we've had (and quite a few people, revile) Quick Time Events for decades.  In fact, we've had them longer than people want to believe (Like 1984 ish with Don Bluth's Dragon's Lair and Space Ace.)

Also, Mr. Cage has had Sony's backing for years, he's no 'struggling indie developer' trying to make a fair buck, he's (a self mentioned) disgruntled wannabe movie director who believes his stories are more interesting than they are.  There is no 'starting to hate' here, I've disliked the man's pretentious attitude for a very, very long while.  And I keep giving him some slack maybe he'll get better, he'll improve, and every time, he keeps disappointing me.

Really, as someone on the 'net mentioned, He and Kojima should just sit down together and make the movie they've always wanted and get it out of their system.

[Hemingway]

I can understand not appreciating the gameplay of Beyond and Heavy Rain, but the story? I mean, sure, if you're upset because you think the game trying to be smart and this somehow offends you, sure. But that doesn't change the fact they have better written and acted stories than most games on the market.

Also, where does the Kojima reference come from? I know Metal Gear has long cut scenes, since it's my favorite series of games. But they serve a purpose - a purpose that the 15 second cutscenes in games like Call of Duty really can't serve - and they're far from as "bad" as people seem to want them to be. Frankly, you seem to be confusing storytelling with lacking quality.

[Chris Brady]

Given that Kojima's recent games have had 8-20 minute cutscenes?  Yeah.  No.  He's obviously wanting to tell a story, and the game gets in the way.  Off topic, and I'm ending my side here.

As for Mr. Cage's 'story writing', the fact of the matter is the only woman character, Madison Paige is mostly used as rape bait or abused in some way.  Even the romance scene was incredibly onesided.  And for Two Souls, the only characters that feel 'believable' are Ellen Page's and Willem Defoe's, every other character are cardboard cut outs, which make it hard to actually get into the story, because it's jarring at how ridiculously flat every other character around them feel.

Call of Duty has it's own issues.  Like actually trying to do a Single Player campaign, that isn't just a pure tutorial, odds are you're there for the multiplayer and nothing else.

[Hemingway]

Yeah.  No.  He's obviously wanting to tell a story, and the game gets in the way.

I think this is the source of the confusion.

Games can do both.

[Chris Brady]

I think this is the source of the confusion.

Games can do both.

Yes, and most that do, aren't very popular, have complaints against them for it.  Metal Gear 4 is often cited has having cutscenes too long.  Not to mention that the original Xenogears, a lot of people loved the first disk, the problem is the second, with it's several 30 minute expositions.  People love those games, just wish those cut scenes weren't so long.

The issue with the last two David Cage projects is they a bunch of tiered cutscenes that barely allow you to do anything with.  It's nice for the multiple endings, I wish games would do this more, especially RPGs, but I also like to be given the illusion of control, Mr. Cage's don't even allow you that luxury.

[Hemingway]

Which is why it's wrong to compare those games, to more conventional games.

That doesn't make them bad, though.