In case of apocalypse...

[Mathim]

Mathim: So the French Revolution was a good thing, even though so many hundreds, maybe even thousands, of people who had nothing to do with oppressing anyone were also brutally killed?

I'm saying I blame the aristocracy and the government for oppressing the people to the point where they would resort to that, and that's exactly the direction this country is headed. So yes, I think those behind the oppression of the masses deserve to be righteously slaughtered.

[Moondazed]

'righteously slaughtered'?  That sounds like the language of zealotry to me. 

You guys need to keep your cool here, please and thank you.

[The Overlord]

It's a good thing He didn't then.

Indeed, it might imply that Shakespeare was right ... All the world's a stage.

[Mathim]

My friend is very insightful and into a lot of mystic stuff and he got me thinking about the Mayan Calendar predicting that the world will end in 2012. I don't necessarily believe that it'll end in some biblical manner, since the world is going downhill already. I think they might have just been able to accurately predict when our stupidity finally kills us and everything (except cockroaches.)

[Apple of Eris]

Wow, so as a lawyer am I one of the people going to be 'righteously slaughtered'?

And on Free Will since that seems to be a popping up theme here: How do you know we have Free Will? Several protestant christian groups argue that we do not. How do you -know- they are wrong and you are right? I mean if God is omnipotent and oniscient it knows everything that is going to happen before it is even going to do anything so it knew what would happen to humanity before it created the universe. *shrug*

And yeah, sometimes we do some terrible stuff to survive, but then again you all argung that point can point to 'donner party' and a few other handful of instances that things like that happened, sure. But what about the hundreds/thousands/millions of instances where we don't turn on each other? When we help one another instead of falling into some stupid every man for themselves bullshit.

Honestly I'm pretty disgusted by this entire topic by now and this self-righteous sounding shit spouted in some sort of effort to pre-justify killing other people or whatever you want to do. Sure, go ahead and try to reassure yourself that you'll 'just be doing what everyone else is doing' and totally miss that YOU are part of the problem and not the solution. If you think things are going to be that bad, why wait around? Just get it over with now.

Personally, I think we'll pull together as a family/village/city/state/country/race and show the best we can be.

[The Overlord]

If you're that disgusted then best step off the topic, before one us says says something we regret.

[Moondazed]

Careful there :)  You can be blunt and express your disgust but no one else can?  Sorry, that's not how it works.

[Apple of Eris]

If you're that disgusted then best step off the topic, before one us says says something we regret.

If you're that disgusted then best step off the planet, before one us says says something we regret.
*shrug*
We can cut both ways with that one.

[Inkidu]

Because the Bible clearly states that humans are given free will. Predestination is flawed in its very idea and not even a part of the Bible. John 3:16 is pretty much the verse that lets you into heaven.
Now that being I believe that God is like a process, always becoming more perfect. That's how we are in his image. Humans have the capacity to become perfect good. In this process he is like massive ripples in a pond, and every one of us is another set of ripple. Satan is a third set of ripples. Each of the two ripple influence us little ripples as we interact with each other. God sees all those ripples and what the can or might do.

Then everyone always rebuttals with, "Why doesn't God just alleviate all the suffering in the world?" Well God is like a parent. As parents you'd love nothing more than to protect and coddle and tell your children what to do in every aspect of their lives because it wouldn't bring suffering. Now this messes with free will. However, any good parent knows they can't do this. They know their children are going to get hurt and hopefully learn from that pain.
So I can imagine God being very sad indeed...
I believe the world will come to an end in much the way Revelations describes. I believe there is no real post-apocalypse, but it is said in the Bible that there will be a time of horrible war, and it makes this one look like a paintball fight.

[RubySlippers]

I have a simple view of this God person in the Judeo-Christian sense ...

If God created Satan and He is al-knowing then He created evil so He then must be more evil than Satan.

If God Hates Satan and is stronger why doesn't He come down and kick Satan's ass?

If Satan is as powerful as God as it seems to me then how can we be sure Hell is bad, all we have as evidence of that is the Bible and religions. Hell could be a fun place after all aren't all the fun sorts going there as well as the bad ones like prostitutes, drug dealers, hedonists, gluttons and the like.

[Moondazed]

Does this topic need to be split again?  Please stay on topic or start a new thread.

[RubySlippers]

Ok lets keep this simple like I pointed out our species like any to advance must have pressures to advance - or we will stagnate. Its due time for our species to have a major shock to see if we can advance to the next level and I believe we will. And what do we in the US have to be concerned about North America is the largest food producer pretty much in the WORLD, why should we starve or have problems. If we need oil and another nation needs food we will have the leverage to get what we need or they starve. China fine they are a threat but also a third world nation in most areas and a huge population that guess what - needs FOOD. Our nuclear arsenal is enough to assure invasion is never going to happen and we can use martial law if necessary for a time to enforce order and ration food, fuel and resources just like WWII.

And when it blows over our species that which is left will be stronger. Its not the US or the industrialized nations in trouble here in the end its the poor nations and I say fuck them if they can't do anything for us. Social evolution will make the best nations and peoples survive the ones fit to survive.

[The Overlord]

Because the Bible clearly states that humans are given free will. Predestination is flawed in its very idea and not even a part of the Bible. John 3:16 is pretty much the verse that lets you into heaven.

Not to try to invalidate all of Christianity, but ultimately, the bible is just a book, and this is just an opinion. Despite claims to the contrary, the book was written by many mortal authors, each with their own agendas. There’s no real evidence to prove this one, some believe their faith is enough to believe it’s true, but believing and knowing are apples and oranges.

Then everyone always rebuttals with, "Why doesn't God just alleviate all the suffering in the world?" Well God is like a parent. As parents you'd love nothing more than to protect and coddle and tell your children what to do in every aspect of their lives because it wouldn't bring suffering. Now this messes with free will. However, any good parent knows they can't do this. They know their children are going to get hurt and hopefully learn from that pain.
So I can imagine God being very sad indeed...

Again, this all fits very conveniently with all the men that wrote the bible could see, and couldn’t see. It’s an easy way to try and explain what they can’t truly understand, and an effective way to peddle it to the masses.

The circumstances as we see them can just as easily direct you to the conclusion that there is no active god in existence at all. I’m not saying no creator at all, just not one in the biblical classic sense, that is this all-knowing, loving father figure that’s watching over us from a distance but doesn’t intervene for the most part. There’s nothing substantial to support this view, and again it just comes down to faith.

[Inkidu]

Not to try to invalidate all of Christianity, but ultimately, the bible is just a book, and this is just an opinion. Despite claims to the contrary, the book was written by many mortal authors, each with their own agendas. There’s no real evidence to prove this one, some believe their faith is enough to believe it’s true, but believing and knowing are apples and oranges.

Again, this all fits very conveniently with all the men that wrote the bible could see, and couldn’t see. It’s an easy way to try and explain what they can’t truly understand, and an effective way to peddle it to the masses.

The circumstances as we see them can just as easily direct you to the conclusion that there is no active god in existence at all. I’m not saying no creator at all, just not one in the biblical classic sense, that is this all-knowing, loving father figure that’s watching over us from a distance but doesn’t intervene for the most part. There’s nothing substantial to support this view, and again it just comes down to faith.

Of course, it comes down to faith. I was just providing an interpretation. 

[Sherona]

*smiles* I believe a SIrens asked you guys to stay ontopic, or move make a new thread if you were going to continue arguing about religion :)

[The Overlord]

Of course, it comes down to faith. I was just providing an interpretation. 

I understand.

[Mathim]

Wow, I missed a lot since my last post.

Apple, take a chill pill, please. When law and order collapses (not if, WHEN) who will punish the guilty? If people have to take the law and justice into their own hands then so be it. If the human race (not bloody likely) survives into the next few generations, those who are used to the haves and have-nots dichotomy and want to keep on being haves and separating themselves from the have-nots while they take advantage of them, then those haves need to be eradicated like the cancerous parasites they are. Not that the have-nots are much better, but still, if there is any hope of redemption for the species and the cosmos aren't just going to stamp us out and be done with it, we need to focus on equality and get rid of the idea that some are better than others. And the worst offenders are the wealthy elite. They need to go; and considering how much suffering they've perpetrated on others, how slowly and painfully is up to the person who ends up killing them.

But they'll be safe on their little private islands when money becomes worthless.

I don't know how we started talking about faith, but this topic shouldn't have much to do with it unless someone is saying that the end of the world is going to be caused by, like, the second coming of Jesus or something. Let's get back on track, shall we?

My friend down in the Bay Area, the ex-military gun fanatic just called me and invited me to join him when the shit hits the fan so I'll probably end up on the offensive rather than taking the easy way out. At least for a while. This might be fun after all.

[HairyHeretic]

If people have to take the law and justice into their own hands then so be it. If the human race (not bloody likely) survives into the next few generations, those who are used to the haves and have-nots dichotomy and want to keep on being haves and separating themselves from the have-nots while they take advantage of them, then those haves need to be eradicated like the cancerous parasites they are. Not that the have-nots are much better, but still, if there is any hope of redemption for the species and the cosmos aren't just going to stamp us out and be done with it, we need to focus on equality and get rid of the idea that some are better than others. And the worst offenders are the wealthy elite. They need to go; and considering how much suffering they've perpetrated on others, how slowly and painfully is up to the person who ends up killing them.

That worked out so well after they got rid of the Czar, didn't it?

Violence is not going to get you utopia.

[Valerian]

Violence will only get you more violence.  And Apple is definitely not the one who needs to take a chill pill.  If you're determined to go down shooting, please make sure you at least do it AFTER your predicted chaos happens and not before.  Otherwise you'll just be proving that you and your "gun fanatic" friend are part of the problem, not any kind of solution.

[Moondazed]

This might be fun after all.

Because what really matters is whether or not you're having fun  ::)  Let me guess... you enjoy first person shooters with lots of gore... :P

[Apple of Eris]

Apple, take a chill pill, please.

I think I'll voice my opinion on your opinion and others I view as disgusting when and how I please, so long as the moderators deem it doesn't violate the site rules TYVM.

When law and order collapses (not if, WHEN)

I'm sure you have a source for this wonderful flash of precognition?

...those who are used to the haves and have-nots dichotomy and want to keep on being haves and separating themselves from the have-nots while they take advantage of them, then those haves need to be eradicated like the cancerous parasites they are.

Yes, we should certainly eradicate anyone who has doen well for themselves. Lets kill Warren Buffet, he made a fortune investing. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs too, theymade TONS of cash with an idea and some business savvy. Etc... etc..

But wait! Why should we stop there? Lets kill all CEOs! Oh! And all upper level management. No, wait, better kill ALL managers just to be sure! And lets not forget people that own their own businesses because you know, they HAVE something. Oh and how about people with a college education? Lets kill them! Heck, anyone who went to school at all! And people with glasses, you only need glasses if you're going to read and if you read you MUST be educated!

Then, when we run out of bullets we'll just order some more from... oh... shit.

If only the government would take away your guns so -I- don't need to be afraid of the lunatics running loose that want to shower us all in a hail of steel jacketed death. I knew I should have become a prosecutor.

[Kazae]

In case of Apocalypse, the people who know what they are doing will establish little enclaves of sanity apart from the Idiocracy that will thereafter ensue, codifying them with terms that are completely opaque to the average consumer of typical broadcast TV and indecipherable to those who loathe literacy and those who 'talk like fags who have their shit all retarded'. 

Such will be lovingly referred to as Non-utopias, because they will in fact be everywhere.

I don't want the world to end, but I'd frankly see more opportunity than loss.