Trump

[Oniya]

Keep in mind that many of these sentences will be served concurrently.  Even so, at 69, and having lived a cushy lifestyle before, serving even the minimum sentences is going to be essentially a lifetime.

[TheGlyphstone]

And of course Trump is making noise about his ability to pardon, again. What would be the consequences, hypothetically, if he did pardon Manafort?

[Deamonbane]

I don't think it's grounds for anything but more political outrage, and hopefully more isolation from the GOP.

Remember, remember to vote in November.

[legomaster00156]

Republicans would moan quietly and nothing would change.

[HairyHeretic]

I saw a news story saying his lawyer had announced he wasn't willing to accept a pardon from Trump.

[Cassandra LeMay]

First of all, I have to correct myself. I thought Manafort had been charged under 26 USC 2701, but it was (far as I can now tell) 26 USC 2706, which carries a maximum sentence of 3 years - not 5, as I had originally assumed.

And of course Trump is making noise about his ability to pardon, again. What would be the consequences, hypothetically, if he did pardon Manafort?

I saw a news story saying his lawyer had announced he wasn't willing to accept a pardon from Trump.

Which really is a thing - you don't have to accept a pardon. You can, but the proclamation of the President alone isn't enough. The precedent is Burdick v. United States.

But, if Trump pardoned Manafort - and Manafort accepted the pardon - one consequence would be that Manafort could be forced to give testimony in cases related to his crimes. He would no longer be able to plead 5th Ammendment rights in any matter he was pardoned for. "The Fifth" protects you from incriminating yourself in criminal procedings. But with a pardon there can be no criminal trial against you for the events the pardon covers. Therefore you can not incriminate yourself. So if he were pardoned, Manafort could find himself under a subpoena to testify. If he then refuses to testify in court he could be held in contempt. If I am not mistaken, contempt of court could land him in prison.

Another question (to which I have no answer) is if some state law violations could be hung on Manafort. A presidential pardon only covers federal crimes, but he might be off the hook here, thanks to double jeopardy, i.e. the rule that you can't be tried for the same conduct twice. But, as with most legal matters, the old adage applies: It's complicated. 

[MasterMischief]

The 'law and order' president's defense is now "snitches get stitches".

[gaggedLouise]

If a man (Mananafort) accepts a pardon, doesn't that carry the implication of accepting that the charges he was sentenced on were valid, and that he was guilty?

[HairyHeretic]

I think so.

[gaggedLouise]

*giggles at the typo "Mananafort" for a man who is likely to be sentenced to at least fifty years in jail* :P

[gaggedLouise]

Asked about what happens after the midterms, Trump replied that if any impeachment of him started, the markets would crash.

Those people in Congress better just sit tight, he thinks.

[legomaster00156]

There was no Russian meddling.
My campaign didn't participate in Russian meddling.
Some members of my campaign accepted help, but I didn't know about it.
I knew about it, but it's legal.
You can't convict me, it would destroy the country.

At this point, the goal posts have been moved a hundred miles out of the stadium.

[Oniya]

If a man (Mananafort) accepts a pardon, doesn't that carry the implication of accepting that the charges he was sentenced on were valid, and that he was guilty?

According to Bob Woodward (one of the journalists that broke Watergate, now associate editor of the Washington Post), President Gerald Ford carried a portion of Burdick v. United States in his wallet, which suggested that the acceptance of a pardon implies guilt.  Woodward interviewed Ford about this approximately 20 years after Ford left office.

[Lustful Bride]

"When the President does it, its not illegal." ~ A Crook.

[gaggedLouise]

"When the President does it, its not illegal." ~ A Crook.

"FAKE NEWS!! It should say 'HC Crook'!"

  - Donald Trump

:D

[Cassandra LeMay]

If a man (Mananafort) accepts a pardon, doesn't that carry the implication of accepting that the charges he was sentenced on were valid, and that he was guilty?

In the eyes of the public, probably very much so.

In the eyes of the law, ... maybe. The relevant part of the Constitution says: "The president shall ... have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States..." [emphasis added] So it seems a pardon can only attach if there is an offense. But the offense alone does not mean that the pardoned party is guilty. In general that can be assumed, as the Burdick precedent states that accepting a pardon comes with an admission of guilt. On the other hand, a pardon can also be granted if the pardoner believes the person in question is innocent and has been wrongly convicted. That can be spelled out in the pardon, so if the pardon would be worded in a certain way, there might not be any admission of guilt. As with most legal matters, the answer is "it depends".

[Iniquitous]

Should also point out that if Manafort were to accept a pardon, he can no longer plead the fifth if he is subpoenaed for questioning concerning this whole Russia probe.

[Twisted Crow]

"When the President does it, its not illegal." ~ A Crook.

*Reads that in (Futurama) Nixon's head's voice.*  ^-^

[Norwegian One]

*Reads that in (Futurama) Nixon's head's voice.*  ^-^

I thought I was the only one ;D

[gaggedLouise]

Love the re-use of Edvard Munch's The Scream here, in reply to an almost panicky Trump tweet. :D

https://twitter.com/WomanResistorNC/status/1032859157085466624

[gaggedLouise]

If Trump's twitter feed and talk at Fox & Friends is anything to go by, then Sessions' days as Secretary of Justice may be counted.  ::)

[Cassandra LeMay]

If Trump's twitter feed and talk at Fox & Friends is anything to go by, then Sessions' days as Secretary of Justice may be counted.  ::)

We've thought that before, but I admit that realDonald's latest tirade sounds kinda serious - which is probably what he wants us to think. Just wait for the interview where he is asked if he will fire Sessions and he replies "I don't know. Maybe I will. You will see. Stay tuned." or something to that effect. That's his usual MO to spin the news into another frenzied cycle and distract from news about his own, personal (wrong)doings.

In other words: I'll believe it when it happens, but till then ... stay tuned.  ;)

[Callie Del Noire]

We've thought that before, but I admit that realDonald's latest tirade sounds kinda serious - which is probably what he wants us to think. Just wait for the interview where he is asked if he will fire Sessions and he replies "I don't know. Maybe I will. You will see. Stay tuned." or something to that effect. That's his usual MO to spin the news into another frenzied cycle and distract from news about his own, personal (wrong)doings.

In other words: I'll believe it when it happens, but till then ... stay tuned.  ;)

Of course, firing the evil vindictive Keebler elf might be the mistake that does him in. As AG, he is constrained by being part of the White House cabinet. Firing him might up end a huge steaming pile the likes of which the President might regret.  My bet if he goes it’s after the midterms IF the GOP says in control

[Various]

Another question (to which I have no answer) is if some state law violations could be hung on Manafort. A presidential pardon only covers federal crimes, but he might be off the hook here, thanks to double jeopardy, i.e. the rule that you can't be tried for the same conduct twice. But, as with most legal matters, the old adage applies: It's complicated.

You can't be charged twice by the same sovereign. The federal government and the state governments are considered different sovereigns. That being said, from what I've heard, New York, where most of the alleged crimes occurred, takes a narrow view of what it can do after the Feds have already weighed in.

[gaggedLouise]

Trump and his cronies at Fox are trying to pull the Hillary Card again, to change the topic from his own self-inflicted woes:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1033339636343549952