Vampire the Masquerade - Interest Check - Players and STs wanted

[Kirinis]

Very late in chiming in, but the option for both seems to be the most interesting.  Like Sasha said, it'll be fun to see what happens after the end of official canon and see what crawls out of the flaming wreckage of Gehenna.  Ideally, I would prefer play on the forums as IRC and I aren't on speaking terms although I might be able to swing a messenger program.

[RubySlippers]

I vote Canon, or Post-Gehenna if not too freaky (a post global depression one world government situation or something decent to get my head around).

EDIT: There is one flaw for a vampire that can allow sex the flaw 15th generation it does hurt vampire powers and limits them but since a vampire that thin of blood can have children it presupposes they can enjoy it. After all a man can't shoot the baby makers without having fun. But its a 4 pt. flaw for a reason. I might go that route since it has built in naturally thinned blood and add the merits Blush of Health, Eat Food and another minor merit for an even 4pts. If your allowing merits and flaws? 15th generation has a small blood pool of 6 points of kindred vitae our of ten and save for rising must use two points to power disciplines, cannot sire or blood bond and is limited to 3 Dots in any discipline. But sunlight does lethal damage, they can have children likely not as fertile as a mortal and can eat food and drink holding it down for a time without needing vitae. So it lends itself to the merits and being vampire trash.  Just thinking things out in either case a canon or non-canon it should be an interesting option for me.

[Hellion000]

I edited the list post.

At the end of the day, it appears we have 12 players, with the following breakdown in voting:

Both: 5
Canon: 4
Post Gehenna: 2
Abstained: 1

So, it looks like we're doing both. Those of you who voted only on a canon game are welcome to play until we're ready to fast forward into the post- Gehenna game and then drop out if you'd like.

With 11 players and myself running it, we have 12 (N)PC slots.

I'd like to get some numbers from you guys. In order 1,2,3 what Sect would you like to start in? (IE: 1.) Sabbat, 2.) Indies, 3.) Camarilla.) I'll determine where you start and who you start with based on that, and I'll be running sub-games for each faction.

[TheHangedOne]

On a second thought, I think I'm going to drop out. Don't think I'll be able to give all my attention to this game once it gets going.  Sorry, folks.

[Blitzy]

1.

[AndyZ]

3.) Camarilla

[RubySlippers]

Camarilla, Caitiff may be scum on the heels of the vampire elite but the Sabbat scare the crap out of her and Independents are just to unpredictable.

[Sabriel]

It actually looks like you now have more votes for Cannon, since two of the people who voted for both have dropped out.

I think I maybe going the way of giving this a miss myself as it is at the moment I don't particularly want to get involved in a multi player faction game, that could be awkward and weird I think I tend to prefer it when everyone is the same or at least of factions that may tolerate one another and it sounds like it might end up with groups of every sect.  I find it far more fun when focus is on a particular sect or none at all and the characters joint struggle/existence/whatever in that.

One of my main reasons for this is well is it no fun when there is a Camarilla group which only consists of you and a bunch of NPC's and a Sabbat pack which is basicly much the same, then you have a bunch of Independents who are all doing there own different things.  It could lead to awkward starts and lack of interaction between the players as well as difficulty for you as a Storyteller trying to keep all the different things going and try to encourage some sort of joint story.  It works well on chats sure when there are lots of players but for small games I think it is just hoping for a bit too much, unless you could have equal members of say a Camarilla/Anarch/Independent and Sabbat divide.

Given others involvement I am not sure the character concept I have been plotting to try for a while would work or fit well in this game anyway, so id have to think of something else now based on wherever this was going.  I hope that the game goes well anyway even if I do not get involved in the end :)

Ill still be keeping an interested pair of eyes on things anyway, if you get my interest you will keep it :)

[RubySlippers]

You could just make it a Camarilla game ST, after all they claim dominion over all vampires as the legitimate government even independents that can be represented as sect members. Just to keep things simple.

[abandoneddolly]

camarillia.

[Blitzy]

I wont play myself if it is strictlly Camarilla. I could go indie or Anarch... which, actually, Anarch might be a fun thing because of the chaos...

[RubySlippers]

Anarchs are not necessarily chaotic in fact they have leaders and hold territory when they can get it, I likely will play more "this is where I hung my cape until something better comes along". Just its hard to do that in Sabbat territory.

[Kirinis]

Indie.  I've done straight Camarilla before so I want to try something different.

[Blitzy]

I never said that Anarchs are chaotic, I said they would be fun because of the chaos from post-gehenna.

[Phyrfaerie]

my vote is Sabbat. (duh)

[Hellion000]

Alright.

I know I'm going to catch some flack from the people who chose Sabbat over what I'm about to say, but... having talked to more than one person about the innate clash and conflict between the Sword of Caine and all other Vampires, I think I'm going to retract the choice to play Sabbat, and stick with Camarilla and Indie.

I really hope that this doesn't cause people to flee the game, and as incentive to the pro- Sabbat faction, I'm willing to entertain the option of either running a side game on here or one on messengers for those who want a Sabbat game.

Sorry for the backtracking, but... I genuinely believe its for the best.

[RubySlippers]

I'm fine with Cami or Indie. I will note all clans are represented among the Indie some Licks just want to be left alone or do their own thing.

[Blitzy]

I hate Camarilla so I'm not really sure I want to play in a game that has more focus on that. We'll see. =/ I'll have to think if being indie is worth it.

[Sabriel]

Personally I think the Camarilla is quite key to Vampire the Masquerade, I mean without it many of the elements of Vampire just get ignored and well it becomes different from what it was intended.  In a sense I think playing a Sabbat campaign is not really playing cannon Vampire because it was always meant to focus on humanity and dealing with the condition and intrigues of Kindred society, its a totally different focus and approach really not that there anything wrong with that of course. That tends to all fly out of the window with the Sabbat although that is usually because people just want to make silly concept characters who revel in there conditions and well just want to be badass, they tend to also ignore most of the things about the Sabbat that actually makes it interesting too hehe mind you just as many people seam to do that with the Camarilla and game in general just its easier to avoid.

Ive always liked all the Sects but I do see the Sabbat as the bad apple that tends to attract some of the most idiotic character concepts and blatant abuse of the game not to mention the general ignorance of its core themes. Sabbat has great potential when done properly as does the Camarilla and the Anarchs It's just harder to do I think, If anything Sabbat was done it have to be very interesting and True to the Sabbat rather than just some Dusk Till Dawn esq thing for me anyway.

So I would imagine that a Camarilla/Independent/Anarch thing would work best myself, those three groups can and do interact and tolerate one another to an extent.  Where as the Sabbat well the Sabbat yeah tolerance and patience is not there strong point is it even with each other, there an alarm clock  that just can't wait to go off and wake the antediluvians already.

I think if your doing anything involving the Sabbat it has to be with everyone being just that and well works good if its one pack or co-operating packs etc.

[Hellion000]

... I will note all clans are represented among the Indie some Licks just want to be left alone or do their own thing.

Yes and no. The word you're looking for there is 'Autarkis'. While it's true that all Clans are represented in the Independents, not all Independents have a Clan. Right off the top of my head, the Gangrel, Ravnos, and Setite are the only canon groups of Independent Vampires to be 'Clans' because only those three have a 3rd Gen Progenitor.

The Giovanni, the Daughters of Cacophony, ect are all Bloodlines at best, and the Vampires of other Clans who have walked away from Coterie/Pack/Clique, Clan, and Sect no longer have a Clan to call their own, and thus are (as I mentioned above) Autarkis- or worse, Antitribu.

I hate Camarilla so I'm not really sure I want to play in a game that has more focus on that. We'll see. =/ I'll have to think if being indie is worth it.

I'd just like to point out that, to me, the Anarchs are not a completely divergent Sect. They're a sub-Sect of the Camarilla, and as such if you choose to play an Anarch you'll mesh in (loosely) with the Camarilla or, if you can get enough people to play with you, your own Anarch Clique.

Personally I think the Camarilla is quite key to Vampire the Masquerade, I mean without it many of the elements of Vampire just get ignored and well it becomes different from what it was intended.  In a sense I think playing a Sabbat campaign is not really playing cannon Vampire because it was always meant to focus on humanity and dealing with the condition and intrigues of Kindred society, its a totally different focus and approach really not that there anything wrong with that of course. That tends to all fly out of the window with the Sabbat although that is usually because people just want to make silly concept characters who revel in there conditions and well just want to be badass, they tend to also ignore most of the things about the Sabbat that actually makes it interesting too hehe mind you just as many people seam to do that with the Camarilla and game in general just its easier to avoid.

Ive always liked all the Sects but I do see the Sabbat as the bad apple that tends to attract some of the most idiotic character concepts and blatant abuse of the game not to mention the general ignorance of its core themes. Sabbat has great potential when done properly as does the Camarilla and the Anarchs It's just harder to do I think, If anything Sabbat was done it have to be very interesting and True to the Sabbat rather than just some Dusk Till Dawn esq thing for me anyway.

So I would imagine that a Camarilla/Independent/Anarch thing would work best myself, those three groups can and do interact and tolerate one another to an extent.  Where as the Sabbat well the Sabbat yeah tolerance and patience is not there strong point is it even with each other, there an alarm clock  that just can't wait to go off and wake the antediluvians already.

I think if your doing anything involving the Sabbat it has to be with everyone being just that and well works good if its one pack or co-operating packs etc.

This is well said, though only partially true. I've been lucky enough in my time playing in the oWoD online to have found people I can consider friends who also understand that the Sabbat isn't all about MKD MKD MKD! The Sabbat has an integral part to play in the oWoD, and sometimes as a counterpoint to the 'Oh woes me, wherefore has my Humanity gone!" attitude of the Camarilla game, it's nice to switch over to "I've lost my soul to save yours, why do you hate me?" attitude of the Sabbat game.

While VtM is the flagship of the oWoD and the Camarilla is the flagship of VtM, it's not quite fair to say that there's no politicking or dealing with the nature of being undead in the Sabbat game. There's a lot of politics in a good Sabbat game, they're just handled differently- instead of a knife in the back, you get a claw to the gut! Likewise, there's much more spiritualism in a well run Sabbat game- for a couple of reasons- that you'll never see in a Camarilla game.

Anyway, I'm not saying you're wrong on any particular level in your post because taken as individual points you're correct. But your assessment as a whole is, to me, apparently skewed by bad experiences where the Sabbat are concerned...

[RubySlippers]

Well the Sabbat are not all crazy if that was the case the sect would have dies out its origin is simple to defeat the antedelluvians before they rise and supposedly took out two of them the Tzimisce and Losombra ones. If they stuck to that they would likely be heroic in a way defending the species and ending Gehenna. I just don't get how killing and torturing humans gets you there they should be going for the Camarilla that protects at least six Antedelluvians assuming Ventrue was killed in ancient times. Five if the Gangrel are gone in the campaign from the Camarilla. But they lost their way.

When I run the game the Sabbat want to take out the Camarilla and the five Antedulluvians they protect its not personal I made them no different they maintain the First Tradition, they tend to be decent stewards of cities just are going after the ancients. I had them eliminate five over the centuries - Tremere, Brujah, Toreador, Set and Nosferatu (with the help of the Technocracy and an experimental earthquake bomb it took out Japan but did take out the ancient vampire so was a fair trade). Overall they are just doing what they were supposed to be doing over time and successfully as well. But they are not nice think of the old Spanish Inquisition on steroids they are nice to vampires that side with them or stay out of the way and if your protecting the ancients they show no mercy.

Its just how the ST visions them Canon or Canon (but following its primary purpose).

[Sabriel]

Hehe  ;D

it's not quite fair to say that there's no politicking or dealing with the nature of being undead in the Sabbat game.

At no point was I trying to say or suggest any of this btw quite the opposite, I like the Sabbat and it can be very good as I think I said but it does have a different focus and approach and it a wonderful part of the WOD. It can "sometimes" play victim to just being focused on other base elements or violence however etc, with all the other rich elements being shunned. I am just more picky about when ill play the Sabbat because well it tends to play victim more to those people who just want to focus on certain elements and ignore all the other bits which does not interest me much.  I was not generalizing or suggesting everyone does that nor that the majority does or even that it's wrong, just that I am always wary about the Sabbat because its all or nothing with me where thats concerned.

My experience with the Sabbat is actually pretty good too, because I am very picky with them and becoming involved. Just I have seen so many bad concept characters and proposals for Sabbat games that I always want to be sure it will be a "Sabbat" game and not a "Shovel festival".


In cannon Ravnos are technically no longer a clan with that whole "week of nightmares" thing ::)

Giovanni I think do class as a clan however since they do have a progenitor, they where a bloodline that became a clan I would think.

[Phyrfaerie]

I'd like to add my own two cents for whatever its worth.

I have been playing Sabbat since I started gaming. Back in the days when unmods were the thing to DO on any given night.  I enjoy the up front mentality of the Sabbat over the behind-the-scenes mentality of the Camarilla. However, literally because I love Hellion IRL, and because I know him to be a worthy ST of my time and patience, I will play anything he asks me to play in.

The debate that Sabriel and Ruby seem to be having with Hellion is based more on the facets of the sects, the generalizations if you will, and perceptions will be altered accordingly.

Im down for playing under you Hellion. Run whatever kinda game you want. If you go Indie, Im down for playing Gio (properly, for once. yay.) Gangrel, or even Setite. If you go Cammie, Ill try and play a Rose or maybe a Fug. *shrugs* I got ideas for all.

[Sabriel]

Nothing I have said was anything to do with Ruby or what she has said or really directed at anyone in particular even. In fact what inspired my response as it was is simply the fact someone else mentioned there opinion on a particular sect, I thought id just give my own two cents and why I am picky about involvement if the themes and elements I like are ignored in favor of other base things. That was very silly thing for me to do on a forum I realize that now, I forgot my sense and reason and I should of kept to the code  :P

I am sorry I wrote anything at all heh   

[RubySlippers]

Why not just pick a faction then if people want to opt out they can, you're unlikely to make everyone happy so go with what might work best.