American serviceman gunned down by Muslim extremist

[Zeitgeist]

If conservative pundits, commentators, and protesters share responsibility for Tiller's murder, as some believe, then the liberal media, Obermans, Murthas and Pelosies are just as responsible for this man's murder when they rabble rouse on about how our soldiers are killing and torturing indiscriminately.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gQACNshVFYt6M9CDykHq6DKqPhiwD98I5FFG1

Where is Obama's call of condemnation and prayers for this man's family?

Where is the outrage?

chirp, chirp...chirp, chirp...

That's right.

[HairyHeretic]

If conservative pundits, commentators, and protesters share responsibility for Tiller's murder, as some believe, then the liberal media, Obermans, Murthas and Pelosies are just as responsible for this man's murder when they rabble rouse on about how our soldiers are killing and torturing indiscriminately.

I trust you can back that up with some verifiable quotes?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gQACNshVFYt6M9CDykHq6DKqPhiwD98I5FFG1

Where is Obama's call of condemnation and prayers for this man's family?

Where is the outrage?

chirp, chirp...chirp, chirp...

That's right.

Given a quick search has shown some 800+ news stories covering this event, and the handfull I looked at all condeming it, there seems to be plenty of outrage.

The one who carried it out is a murderer, and should face the full extent of the law for his actions. It doesn't take much in the way of courage to open fire on two unarmed men having a quiet smoke.

[Avi]

I agree with HH on this one.  I watch Olbermann on a somewhat-regular basis, more for entertainment purposes than anything else, and I have never once heard him use rhetoric about the legitimate concerns about our interrogation policies that is nearly as inflammatory as O'Reilly, Hannity, and their ilk have used to attack Dr. Tiller.  (Tiller the Baby Killer, Baby Murderer, etc.) 

Now, I'm pro-life, and proud of it, but I was sickened by what happened to Tiller, regardless of his views on abortion, and I am just as disturbed by this incident with the military recruiter in Arkansas.  Neither man deserved to die in the way that they did, and the people responsible for their deaths deserve to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

If you can supply quotes from Olbermann and others being as vicious toward American soldiers as O'Reilly was toward Tiller, then you have made a valid point.  Until then, I'm going to stand behind the coverage of this incident, because, like HH, I've seen plenty of it, and it has been very, very much about condemning the attack.

[Zeitgeist]

I think you both need to re-read what I wrote.

For one, I asked where is Obama's statement on the serviceman's death? He sure did leap up to the opportunity to condemn Tiller's death.

How about some love from the serviceman's commander in chief?

And Murtha for sure I know has leaped to all kinds of conclusions in public statements, claiming marines were killing people in Iraq indiscriminately. If memory serves me those marines were found not guilty.

[Zeitgeist]

Just as an example, take a look at MSNBCs website.

No front page mention of the serviceman's murder, but more than one link to a story titled:

"Kansas is deadly epicenter in abortion debate".

Have there been any calls by the DOJ to raise security around recruitment centers?

[Vekseid]

You know, it would be appreciated if you linked to a more informative article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/us/02recruit.html

It's been two days - more details are available.

Also, please explain what this adds to the discussion:

chirp, chirp...chirp, chirp...

That's right.

[Zeitgeist]

Look, I never said the story about the murder of the serviceman wasn't covered. I'm only saying there isn't the same volume of coverage, nor the same level of outrage.

There is no question in my mind the murder of Tiller fits more nicely into the liberal media's agenda than the murder of a serviceman by a domestic Muslim extremist. And I argue the volume and nature of the coverage demonstrates this.

I came to this determination by what I saw and heard on cable news and reading newspaper headlines. Sorry, I'm not going to appease anyone's sensitivities by spending more time pouring over online links to find a comparison of articles that further demonstrates this point.

Feel free to disagree.

Also, please explain what this adds to the discussion:

My apologies, I'll refrain from any further sarcasm or snarkiness in the future.

[Vekseid]

My issue wasn't so much that you linked, but it looked like you were drumming up assumptions - your link doesn't make any reference to the man or his religion. That is obviously a problem - you shouldn't even support dodging like that, because the more you do the more support the world you claim to ridicule gets.

I think the media is just a sack of spineless curs who aren't willing to actually face the direct threat of fundamentalism, myself. GE and Disney are not models of 'liberalism' no matter how you try to paint them. At their heart, however, they are cowards - that's how companies work and stay in power.

[OldSchoolGamer]

If conservative pundits, commentators, and protesters share responsibility for Tiller's murder, as some believe, then the liberal media, Obermans, Murthas and Pelosies are just as responsible for this man's murder when they rabble rouse on about how our soldiers are killing and torturing indiscriminately.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gQACNshVFYt6M9CDykHq6DKqPhiwD98I5FFG1

Where is Obama's call of condemnation and prayers for this man's family?

Where is the outrage?

chirp, chirp...chirp, chirp...

That's right.

Here's an idea.

Why don't we blame the man who actually pulled the trigger for the crime.

Just a thought...

[Zeitgeist]

Here's an idea.

Why don't we blame the man who actually pulled the trigger for the crime.

Just a thought...

I couldn't agree more. Yet that is not what you'll hear from the media.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions, first and foremost. But those days are now long past. Now it is blame America first, or blame the 'cabal of white male power', or blame it on religion, and so on.

[Trieste]

I couldn't agree more. Yet that is not what you'll hear from the media.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions, first and foremost. But those days are now long past. Now it is blame America first, or blame the 'cabal of white male power', or blame it on religion, and so on.

Tits Sources or GTFO.

[Mathim]

If people were responsible for their own actions we wouldn't have mental hospitals...

[Avi]

One of the great debates in psychology is the classic question: "Nature or nurture?  Which has more of an effect on someone's actions, their genes, or their upbringing/environment?"

In my mind, while people need to take responsibility for what they did, you also need to consider third-party factors, so to speak.  People do not operate in a vacuum, and unless you are completely dense, eventually something in your life will change how you behave.  I'm pro-life, for example.  Have been since I really knew about the issue, but I have not been exposed to the radicalism that others I know have been.  They are incredibly stubborn and highly unreasonable, yet we both support the cause for the same reasons.

Environment, religion, social status, economic status, parenting, education, ethnic groups... all of these things have a profound effect on what people.  To claim that pointing to other outside factors as possible reasons for what they did is irresponsible or stupid is to claim that people should defy human nature.

[Trieste]

If people were responsible for their own actions we wouldn't have mental hospitals...

Whether you are right or wrong in the broader sense, this comment has nothing to do with the topic at hand and does not contribute to the discussion. Please feel free to make relevant commentary and leave the inflammatory statements at home. Thanks!

[Caehlim]

Where is the outrage?

I don't care that the victims were soldiers. I'm just outraged that someone would shoot two fellow human beings. I'm sure that he has reasons to justify it in his own mind, but to me it's still a horrible waste of human life.

[The Overlord]

Whoa whoa... Hold the bus folks...the updated article said the shooter had "political and religious motives". That also describes the conservative asshat that recently shot the abortion doctor in church.

Better wait and see how this one pans out...Muslim extremist is not mentioned in the article.

[HairyHeretic]

Actually most of the coverage I've seen stated quite clearly that he was a muslim convert, and the shootings were motivated by political views. I believe he stated that up front to the police when he was arrested.

[The Overlord]

Actually most of the coverage I've seen stated quite clearly that he was a muslim convert, and the shootings were motivated by political views. I believe he stated that up front to the police when he was arrested.

Well, it it’s verified, the fact that dude had the balls/stupidity to do this in the deep south as a Muslim…given the climate on this sort of thing I hope someone gets to him and sends his flayed corpse to Allah.

[HairyHeretic]

I don't.

I do want to see him prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Justice, not vengence.

[Avi]

I don't.

I do want to see him prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Justice, not vengence.

Agreed.  Responding to violence with more violence makes us no better than him.

[The Overlord]

Justice, not vengence.

No wish to take the thread in another direction, but that's extremely open to debate. The line between the two is often very, very fine, and those who argue otherwise want the mental safety zone of moral superiority.

Agreed.  Responding to violence with more violence makes us no better than him.

Really? So what do they do, give him the death penalty which is violence. Or they give him life incarceration, which virtually guarantees he's going to be subject to violence.


Again I ask, show me the difference.

[HairyHeretic]

No wish to take the thread in another direction, but that's extremely open to debate.

If you think it would make for an interesting discussion, open a thread on it.

The line between the two is often very, very fine, and those who argue otherwise want the mental safety zone of moral superiority.

It can be a fine line, I agree.

Really? So what do they do, give him the death penalty which is violence. Or they give him life incarceration, which virtually guarantees he's going to be subject to violence.

I don't know if the state in question has the death penalty. If it does, he'll quite likely get it I suspect. But given the legal process that could be years delayed in occuring.

Again I ask, show me the difference.

I suspect there's quite a lot of difference between, say, a lethal injection, and being beaten to such an extent that you die of your injuries.

[Zeitgeist]

According to the AP, 5 hours ago, Obama has expressed sympathy for the family, prayers and that he is 'deeply saddened' by the event.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gQACNshVFYt6M9CDykHq6DKqPhiwD98JVGFG4

I'm satisfied.

And hence forth I'm going to do my best to abstain from this particular board. It has nothing to do with why I sought out Elliquiy. Just my personal preference.