DnD 3.5 Thayan Campaign Wanted Small Group GM/Players Interest Check

[RubySlippers]

I was thinking a 6th Level game allowing traits, flaws, a broad choice of sources and naturally no good alignments based in Thay I was thinking as a basic set of base ideas.

[Kunoichi]

I'd certainly be willing to sign on as a player if you can find a GM. ^^ A game like this one is something I've been wanting to do for a while.

[RubySlippers]

The idea I have is a LN human Specialist Wizard 3/Master Specialist 2/Red Wizard 1 quietly devoted to studying her school of magic and likely does a suitable craft and/or profession.

[Kunoichi]

Hmmm, not quite sure what sort of build I'd go for...  Probably something with a level adjustment on it, though.  Any chance your character would be interested in having, say, some manner of chaotic evil outsider for a bodyguard?

[RubySlippers]

CE, no, LE likely would be acceptable. But it was just an idea for a possible build.

It depends on HER faction she would plug into someone's like Ssazz Tam's bloc.

[Kunoichi]

I was thinking I'd play a Bariaur from the Planar Handbook, though my thoughts on the exact build beyond the character's race are still up in the air.  Probably a Warblade, though it could be interesting to try making some stealthy Bariaur character with one of the more rogue-like classes.  Either way, they aren't as restricted in alignment as most extraplanar outsiders, so I could certainly make a Lawful Evil one.

Although, for another possibility for a character, a country run by wizards like Thay would probably have quite a few Tibbits running around...

[toshiue]

I might be willing to GM something like this. It's been awhile since I played anything in the realms and I think a Thayan campaign could make for some interesting opportunities.

[RubySlippers]

I was thinking I'd play a Bariaur from the Planar Handbook, though my thoughts on the exact build beyond the character's race are still up in the air.  Probably a Warblade, though it could be interesting to try making some stealthy Bariaur character with one of the more rogue-like classes.  Either way, they aren't as restricted in alignment as most extraplanar outsiders, so I could certainly make a Lawful Evil one.

Although, for another possibility for a character, a country run by wizards like Thay would probably have quite a few Tibbits running around...

But why its not like you could enjoy yourself in Thay being a creature from the infernal realms?  >:)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Just note that Thayans use demons and devils equal measure. Demons make most ideal 'brute shock troops' in warfare example. Where as devils are more dangerous to keep as they can be cunning plotters (some demons like Grazz'zt can be cunning like devil but in general demons are unsubtle sort unless they are succubi).

I could bring my old char; Adrian into this game as well (as conjurer focused specialist 3/master specialist 3/red wizard 1). Assuming we get free regional feats (besides normal 1st level feat). What school you planned specialize in Ruby? Or which to ban. I was thinking lean to ban evocation, enchantment and necromancy (and once as red wizard ban transmutation). Although I thought place Adrian as LN so he could someday qualify to become Malconvoker (a sickly awesome PrC for conjurer builds).

Although if you plan play red wizard you should start the game in 7th level then with that build :P. Also Adrian would lean to Szas Taim camp.

[Kunoichi]

But why its not like you could enjoy yourself in Thay being a creature from the infernal realms?  >:)

Oh, I'm still tossing character ideas around at this point. :P That said, if I were to play the Bariaur, I suppose I'd just take the basic stats for the race and reflavor it into some variety of demon or devil, as appropriate for the campaign.

[RubySlippers]

Just note that Thayans use demons and devils equal measure. Demons make most ideal 'brute shock troops' in warfare example. Where as devils are more dangerous to keep as they can be cunning plotters (some demons like Grazz'zt can be cunning like devil but in general demons are unsubtle sort unless they are succubi).

I could bring my old char; Adrian into this game as well (as conjurer focused specialist 3/master specialist 3/red wizard 1). Assuming we get free regional feats (besides normal 1st level feat). What school you planned specialize in Ruby? Or which to ban. I was thinking lean to ban evocation, enchantment and necromancy (and once as red wizard ban transmutation). Although I thought place Adrian as LN so he could someday qualify to become Malconvoker (a sickly awesome PrC for conjurer builds).

Although if you plan play red wizard you should start the game in 7th level then with that build :P. Also Adrian would lean to Szas Taim camp.

I still plan to be LN one of those upwardly mobile long term but not planning to be a Zulkier or something sort, one who would be acceptable to the Pyramid she is in she might reach the upper Middle Class area. If the GM will allow some Pathfinder feats at we do bump characters up some Master of the Ledger is a feat I would love to take. But need to get Appraise to 9 Ranks so would need to be 8th level for that as a Red Wizard build.

So may I suggest tie level to how much magic goodies you have if loaded down with some good magic 6th level and if fewer items 8th level (likely more of a character like a merchant minded Red Wizard or scholar of the Art).

[Kunoichi]

I think that it would probably be a better idea to just have everyone start at a higher level in that case.  The system really wasn't built to handle having characters differentiated between wealth and level like that. ^^; The 8-10 range seems perfectly suitable for spellcasters and people who hang around them in Thay, to me.

[RubySlippers]

I might suggest Level 8 then, you get two ability boosts for leveling and can get 9 ranks in cc skills and enough in class skills etc.  for many Prestige classes. And would have a nice base of gold for many uses magic items likely one could save making them for yourself with the right feats, a residence, opening a business and so forth.

[Zaer Darkwail]

You get 11 ranks in class skills unless we use pathfinder formula :P. But fine with 8th level as sweet spot for starting (as no doubt more than just we two want play as red wizards).

[RubySlippers]

We could use the Pathfinder skill system it would be easier, many key ones are consolidated.

[Kunoichi]

I think we might want to see what sort of GM we can get and what they'd think of such things, first. ^^; I certainly wouldn't mind using Pathfinder's skill consolidations, though.

[RubySlippers]

True.

I will favor lower level some say 7th if using Pathfinder skills they are better.

[Snake]

Interested!

[Ironwolf85]

keeping an eye on this

[Kunoichi]

I might be willing to GM something like this. It's been awhile since I played anything in the realms and I think a Thayan campaign could make for some interesting opportunities.

So...  Still interested in that GM position? ^^; It looks like there are a number of interested players, at least.

[toshiue]

So...  Still interested in that GM position? ^^; It looks like there are a number of interested players, at least.

Interested? Yes... unfortunately it seems I have overbooked myself and I don't know that I have the time to actually do it. I'd hate to start the game and get everyone excited only to have it die down because of slowness of posts, or to have to bow out suddenly. I hope you guys can find a GM with some more time on their hands.

[RubySlippers]

I'm running two Thayans on rpol, not adult, but 1st level and may not go Red Wizard its not needed. But I would love to play here especially if blending in some Pathfinder for skills and some feats nothing crazy but the Skill Focus type ones and if better in modest ways.

I have ideas for builds for a LN Red Wizard that would be fun if flexible enough on classes [Specialist Wizard] with Red Wizard and another Prestige Class focusing on being a rank and file professional mage not prone to pose a threat to anyone and useful. Why Master of the Ledger is an awesome Pathfinder Feat for that if I can work it in. A Zulkier always need people that can make them lots of gold. She can also invest her funds to make a NICE income.

But we need GM interested to run this.

[Kunoichi]

I'm definitely hoping someone steps up to the plate to GM this game, especially since I've finally managed to figure out a good character concept and general build that I would really like to play.

The character concept I've got in mind would resemble quite a few heavy metal album covers. ^^ A halfling slave girl, clad in a skimpy, Princess Leia-esque outfit and riding atop the back of a massive winged tiger as it tears her master's enemies asunder with its razor-sharp claws and fangs...

[RubySlippers]

Mine would depend on the rules but a Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 3/Red Wizard 1 appeals to me with the Pathfinder Feat Master of the Ledger with some 3.5 Flaws to beef her feats up. She works for the Zulkiers making them money with her Platinum touch. And invests her own money to get a nice income her fees for the Zulkiers would be modest for her services. Being LN she backs the Zulkier seats (not who sits in them) and Thayan law which as a Red Wizard benefits her but not any Zulkier who runs things doesn't matter she enjoys order its good for business but if Ssazz Tam took over she wouldn't mind. A basic rank and file Red Wizard who runs things and just wants to focus on her own studies exploring the powerful school of Conjuration.

[Ironwolf85]

sorcerer
I have a picture of an illithid girl that'd fun for this, I'll do though the savage species book and find a way to make it work.

[Kunoichi]

You could go for psionics and try the Flayerspawn Psychic prestige class, from Complete Psionic.  If you entered via Ardent and picked up the Practiced Manifester feat, you'd be able to mitigate the effects of the lost manifester levels. ^^ The class itself offers up plenty of bonus Illithid Heritage feats, so your character would easily look the part

[RubySlippers]

Thay needs all kinds.  >:)

[Kunoichi]

True. ^^ My own build would probably require working with the DM for a few things, but the basic skeleton of it is a nifty little trick called the Supermount.  To start off with, I'd be making use of the Halfling Outrider prestige class from Complete Warrior.  It has a Mount class feature which doesn't grant the class itself a mount, but does let it progress both Druid-style Animal Companions and Paladin-style Special Mounts if the character has them.

To this, you then add the Devoted Tracker feat, which lets you add your Animal Companion bonuses onto your Special Mount and have them stack with the bonuses it already gets for being a Special Mount...  And the end result is an incredibly powerful beast. ;D

That said, with the way getting alternate special mounts works and the build progression I'm thinkng of, I'd need to start at least at level 8 to get a tiger for a mount, and would prefer to start at level 10 so that it could have the Winged template applied. ^^; I could just give it a Feathered Wings graft if we started below that level, but the Winged Template would definitely be the preferred option for me.

[Snake]

I'm interested but I don't know what to use in terms of char type

[Ironwolf85]

Don't have complete psionics sadly.

[Snake]

I found it on 4shared

[Kunoichi]

We're not really allowed to talk about sites like 4shared on here, unfortunately. ^^; That said, I believe that this site is legal, since it's been running for long enough and is well-known enough that it would have been taken down long ago if it wasn't, and it should have most of the relevant information on it.

Also, realmshelps is allowed, and their feat finder actually has 'Illithid Heritage' as a category of feats you can search through.  Illithid Grapple, Extraction, and Skin would be good for getting the appearance and brain-eating down, with psionic manifesting for the psychic powers.

For the base race, there are actually a few LA 0 Aberrations that you could choose in order to have the appropriate type, as well.  There's the Elan from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the SRD, the Synad from Complete Psionic, and my personal favorite is the Daelkyr Half-Blood from Magic of Eberron.  They actually get a free symbiont from their race, which is pretty awesome. ^^

[Zaer Darkwail]

Aye, daelkyr half-blood is pretty awesome for psion and get kinky and freaky stuff (like symbiotic skin which gives guy 50% chance ignore a attack in encounter in later levels or tentacle whips or shard firing gauntlet arm).

Anyways indeed that PrC is way to go to make a illithid sort caster (or psion). Or go half-illithid template but class levels are better than LA usually.

Anyways RubySlippers, if you go for conjurer school I could take Illusionist focusing red wizard then (or divination).

[LuciusLeche]

Interested, Interested, Interested. Either as a Red Wizard bent more on political Intrigue and the rightful Rule of Thay over the rest of the world or a Monster hunter type rogue sent out to gather Reagents for his master's spells.

[Ironwolf85]

I'm working on the sheet now, I've never done a Psion, so bare with m while I learn.
Ref pic

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

[Zaer Darkwail]

I can give hints/tips to build psion or psionic char if you want :). Also you can google on psion handbook or such to get also ideas.

Also here is pic for female mindflayer; http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1365/10/1365106415333.jpg

[RubySlippers]

Still need a GM but I suppose if you build it, he will come maybe. But I figure do 7th level characters using Pathfinder skills and feats if not combat related say general and see what happens many of them are a bit better.

Otherwise a 32 Point Buy will be good.

Sound okay?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Sound okay to me.

[Kunoichi]

...As I said before, the minimum starting level I'd need to get the special mount that fits my character concept is 8. ^^; I don't suppose we could bump the starting level up by just one?

[RubySlippers]

BUMPITY BUMP BUMP to 8th

[Kunoichi]

Yay, thank you! ^^ Okay, now to come up with a basic build, and refine it later whenever we manage to attract a GM for this game.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Considering RubySlipper is conjurer, I would be Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Red Wizard 1 (plan ban conjuration, evocation and then lock down transmutation). Overall build being Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Red Wizard 5/Shadow Adept 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5 (assuming belonging Shar's cabal qualifies instead being gnome)/Archmage 1. Use all the UA illusionist variants (no bonus spell slot per level, no familiar nor bonus feats).

If feat gain same as pathfinder, then would get 4 feats + any from class or racial (plus free regional feat).

[RubySlippers]

Gehennora Ankhemon
Thayan Government Advocate of Law





Human Female
8th Character Level
Conjurer 5/Red Wizard 3
Lawful Neutral
34 Hit Points
Patron Deity is Kossuth

Ability Scores
Strength 08  -1
Dexterity 10  +0
Constitution 12  +1
Intelligence  20  +5
Wisdom 12  +1
Charisma 12  +1
4th Level Boost Intelligence
8th Level Boost Intelligence

Human Racial Abilities
One Additional Feat at 1st Level
One Extra Skill Point per Level

Wizard Class Features
Focused Specialist
Specialist School: Conjuration
Prohibited Schools: Evocation, Illusion & Necromancy
+2 Conjuration Spells/Spell Level
-1 General Spell Slots/Spell Level
Variant Abilities
Immediate Magic (Abrupt Jaunt) x 5/Day (Sp)
Enhanced Summoning (Ex)
Red Wizard
Enhanced Specialization: Lose Further Advancement in Enchantment
Specialist Defense +2
Spell Power +1

Traits
Specialized - Profession Advocate of Law
Spellgifted - Conjuration

Flaws
Non-Combatant
Pathetic (Strength)

Feats
[flaw] Collegiate Wizard
[flaw] Tattoo Focus (Conjuration)
[variant bonus feat] Augment Summoning
[human bonus feat] Scribe Scroll
[1st level] Prodigy - Craft Calligraphy and Profession Advocate of Law
[3rd level] Toughness (pf)
[5th level] Extend Spell
[5th level wizard bonus feat] Craft Wonderous Item
[7th level] Favored in Guild - Political Thayan Government

Skills   
cc Appraise (Int)  2 Ranks + 5 Int = +7
Craft Calligraphy (Int)  4 Ranks + 5 Int + 2 Feat = +11
Concentration (Con)  11 Ranks + 1 Con = +12
cc Diplomacy (Cha)  4 Ranks + 1 Cha = +5
Intimidate (Cha) 6 Ranks + 1 Cha = +7
Knowledge Arcane  (Int)  8 Ranks + 5 Int = +13
Knowledge Thayan Law  (Int)  11 Ranks + 5 Int = +16
Profession Advocate of Law (Wis)  11 Ranks + 1 Wis + 1 Trait + 2 Feat = +15
cc Sense Motive (Wis)  4 Ranks + 1 Wis = +5
Spellcraft  (Int)  8 Ranks + 5 Int = +13

Arcane Magic
DC= +5
Caster Level Bonus in Conjuration= +2
Caster Level Penalties in Other Schools = -1
Spells per Day with Intelligence Bonuses
Cantrips - 4
1st Level - 4 + 3 Conj.
2nd Level -  3 + 3 Conj.
3rd Level -  3 + 3 Conj.
4th Level -  2 + 3 Conj.
Spells Known, Conjuration = *
Cantrips - All Save Prohibited Schools
1st Level - Alarm, Benign Transposition*, Buzzing Bee*, Charm Person, Orb of Electricity (Lesser)*, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Grease*, Identify, Mage Armor*, Magic Weapon, Mount*, Summon Monster I*, Shield, True Strike, Unseen Servant*
2nd Level - Arcane Lock, Baleful Transposition*, Choke*, Hideous Laughter, Knock, See Invisibility, Summon Monster II*, Web*
3rd Level  -  Blink, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Fly, Gaseous Form, Hold Person, Nondetection, Phantom Steed*, Suggestion, Summon Monster III*
4th Level -  Black Tentacles*,  Dimension Door*, Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser), Orb of Force*, Secure Shelter*, Summon Monster IV*
Spells Prepared
Cantrips - Detect Magic, Mend, Prestidigitation, Read Magic.
1st Level - Benign Transposition*, Charm Person, Orb of Electricity (Lesser)x 2*, True Strike x 3.
2nd Level - Arcane Lock, Baleful Transposition*, Choke*, Hideous Laughter, Knock, See Invisible, Web*.
3rd Level - Dispel Magic x 2, Phantom Steed*, Suggestion, Summon Monster III x 2*.
4th Level - Black Tentacles*, Dimension Door*, Orb of Force*, Summon Monster IV x 2*

Saves
Fort  +2
Ref  +2
Will  +7

Combat
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Melee BAB: -3
Ranged BAB: +3
Initiative: +4
Weapons
Club (Scepter of Thayan Justice)  AB +1, DAM 1d6-1, CRIT. x2, RNG 10 ft., TYPE B, Special: Masterwork, See Magic Item List.
Armor
None

Magic Items
1. Gehennora Ankhemon's Scepter of Thayan Justice
A club ,masterwork, but not a magic weapon. Also if anyone but she picks it up and holds it at the end of the round it summons a Celestial Dogs to attack the wielder each round each summoning lasting three rounds each. The wielder of this uses it as a gavel, a symbol of her office as a government Advocate of Law and is always near her person. Anyone else can hold it but its not a good idea.
CL3 Summon Monster I Celestial Dogs
9000gp
2. Gehennora Ankhemon's Advocate's Amulet
An amulet with the symbol of the Red Wizards of Thay and her Sigil its the other symbol of her office and always worn with a perfect Blood Ruby at the top. Its enchanted with a Shield Spell that goes up if attacked from the front, with the normal benefits. CL1 Shield Only works for her.
2100go
3. Gehennora Ankhemon's Wrap
A belt of Mithral with a Perfect Blood Stone at the clasp that imbues the wearer with a Mage Armor spell. CL1 Mage Armor Only Works for Her
2100gp
4. Gehennora Ankhemon's Blood Stone Band
A circlet with a Perfect Blood Stone and a flaming design it allows the wearer to Detect Magic at will. CL1 Detect Magic Only Works for Her
1050gp
5. Gehennora Ankhemon's Ankle Binders
Sandals that allow the wearer to move faster with Expeditious Retreat and look pretty with Perfect Blood Stones. CL1 Expeditious Retreat Only Works for Her
2100gp
6. Gehennora Ankhemon's Blood Stone Chalice
This cup of Mithral with Perfect Blood Stones can be filled with any beverage and when drunk imbues a Cure Moderate Wounds affect healing 2d8+3 damage 1x/Day. CL1 Cure Moderate Wounds Only Works for Her
5670gp

Wealth
4980gp

Equipment

[RubySlippers]

Considering RubySlipper is conjurer, I would be Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Red Wizard 1 (plan ban conjuration, evocation and then lock down transmutation). Overall build being Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 4/Red Wizard 5/Shadow Adept 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5 (assuming belonging Shar's cabal qualifies instead being gnome)/Archmage 1. Use all the UA illusionist variants (no bonus spell slot per level, no familiar nor bonus feats).

If feat gain same as pathfinder, then would get 4 feats + any from class or racial (plus free regional feat).

Just to be clear to BE a Red Wizard you must be from Thay, have the Tattoo Focus feat at 1st level and be a Human.

And for the Red Wizard level I'm adding Enchantment as her restricted school. I dropped Evocation since Conjuration has plenty of firepower available and Illusion. I wouldn't consider dropping Transmutation its to damned broad to remove.

[Zaer Darkwail]

However shadow weave gives -1 CL penalty to transmutation and evocations (and bans any light spells). However you can go around the restriction by buying scrolls of higher level transmutation spells and scribe them in before taking level as red wizard. As you can prepare spells which you studied, the red wizard ban does not prevent using forbidden school spells, just mere studying them any further.

So I could have time stop in spellbook but unable cast it example.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Just placing here pic I plan use for my red wizard (advanced reserve);

[RubySlippers]

Mine favors less clothing but as long as its red she should be fine. Picture is under the developing character sheet.

Seriously her strong point is being a master of investing in the markets to make gold, which is how she makes her living.  ;D

[Zaer Darkwail]

I found some nice female red wizard pics;

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-deWS3O4E1CA/U8c5pR3fyjI/AAAAAAAABdk/WDXjhQavyto/s1600/Phaia.jpg

http://www.candlekeep.com/images/gallery/mueller_lallara.jpg

http://th01.deviantart.net/fs9/200H/i/2006/050/a/f/Thayin_Tattoos_by_savagedryad.jpg

[RubySlippers]

Our characters could be related like brother and sister, who else can a Red Wizard trust and she would likely not pose a threat to your plans to become Zulkier of Illusion someday.  ;D

She will advise allying with Ssazz Tam though.  ;D

[Kunoichi]

If that's the backstory the two of you wind up going for, perhaps you'd like joint ownership of a Halfling slave girl and her massive, overpowered Tiger animal companion/mount? ;D



Okay, so, basic build...

Well, right off the bat, Devoted Tracker is a feat made for a Paladin/Ranger multiclass character.  The prerequisites are such that you can qualify for it without any levels in Ranger, but that Smite Evil requirement would necessitate levels in Paladin, which obviously wouldn't be very fitting for this game.  One could switch that over to Smite Good, which would allow one of the evil variant Paladins to qualify, but they have codes of conduct centered pretty heavily around dominance and taking charge, which tends to clash pretty heavily with the whole 'Halfling slave girl' part of the character concept.

If we're already making changes to Devoted Tracker, I think that a Scout variant called the Light Cavalry Scout from Dragon Magazine 346 would be extremely fitting for the character concept I've got.  It loses Fast Movement, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight, and Free Movement, and in exchange gains a Special Mount that gains bonuses as a Paladin's mount does, save for the fact that it loses the ability to Share Spells and Command other creatures of its kind that Paladin mounts get, and instead gains Fast Movement, Trackless Step, and Free Movement abilities, as the Scout class features.  Assuming that whatever DM we get would be okay with this, and with letting me get a customized version of Devoted Tracker that a Light Cavalry Scout could qualify for...

Race: Strongheart Halfling
Classes: Light Cavalry Scout 5/Beastmaster 1/Wild Plains Outrider 1/Halfling Outrider 1

Traits would be Slow and Uncivilized, Flaws would also be Slow and No Time For Book Learning, cutting my character's land speed down to 5 feet per round, making her illiterate and giving her penalties to Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information and all Knowledge skills except Knowledge (Nature), but giving her +1 hp per level and bonuses to Handle Animal and Wild Empathy.

Stat allocation...

STR - 6
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 14
CHA - 16

Both stat adjustments from level up would go to Charisma.

For feats, since Strongheart Halflings trade in the normal Halfling save bonus for a bonus feat, I should have quite a few to select...  Too bad most of them are going to be spent on prerequisites.

F) Skill Knowledge (used to pick up Handle Animal as a class skill)
F) Saddleback
B) Bareback Soul
1) Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
3) Mounted Combat
B) Track (Scout bonus feat)
5) Mounted Archery
7) Devoted Tracker (or customized variation)

And finally, for the mount itself...

Magebred Tiger (Swift Breed, bonus feat is Multiattack)
Gains bonuses for 5th-level Paladin mount due to being stronger than normal mount, and 5th-level Animal Companion.  (+4 bonus HD, +6 natural armor, +2 Str, +1 Dex, Int 6)

10,000 gp of starting wealth spent on Feathered Wings fiendish graft for Tiger, granting flight speed at double the Tiger's land speed at average maneuverability.

B) Multiattack
1) Otherworldly (Champions of Valor allows for characters of any race or creature type with the Celestial-Attended Birth background to select this feat; Perhaps reflavoring it as a Fiend-Attended Birth would be appropriate?)
3) Improved Natural Attack (Bite)
5) Improved Natural Attack (Claw)
7) Power Attack
9) Improved Flight (improves maneuverability to good)

[RubySlippers]

You do know slaves by law cannot wear clothes or cut their hair in Thay, unless a submissive but not a slave. I have little use for her but could be a nice bodyguard or the other red wizard. But she would need protection the fact is the beast is what matters in the end but its a cool character.

[Kunoichi]

So long as she's allowed to wash her hair, I'm alright with not being allowed to cut it.  As for not wearing clothing, so long as I'm still allowed to wear whatever magic items I buy in some enticingly-fashioned non-clothing form, once again I'll be fine with it.  Actually, not being allowed to wear clothing was part of the appeal for me in the character concept. ;)

[RubySlippers]

Well I don't want to own her, not she is opposed to owning a slave or two but they tend to be more trouble then they are worth.

[Kunoichi]

Hence why I proposed joint ownership.  You could reap the rewards of owning a slave while letting someone else deal with the troublesome parts. :P

Edit: Ah, and before I head off to bed, I've got a recommended build for Ironwolf.  Whichever LA 0 Aberration race you wind up taking, you should be able to squeeze in most of the relevant Illithid abilities with the following build:

Psion (Telepath) 5/Flayerspawn Psychic 2/Mindbender (Psionic variant) 1

Mindbender is from Complete Arcane, and the adaptation section notes that it could be altered for psionic classes by just making it so that it advances powers instead of spellcasting, and changing the requirements a little.  It grants you Telepathy out to 100 ft, which is an ability that actual Mind Flayers have.  You get 4 feats from leveling (1, 3, 5, 7), 2 from Flaws, and one bonus Illithid Heritage feat from Flayerspawn Psychic, which is enough to pick up Illithid Heritage, Illithid Skin, Illithid Grapple x4, and Illithid Extraction, as well as the Illithid Blast feat that FP gives you.  Add on the manifester levels from your psionic classes, and you're pretty much a Mind Flayer in all the ways that matter, plus you get the two bonus feats from Psion still leftover. ^^

[RubySlippers]

And if your character screws up she owes for it ,no,  I plan to only own maybe two pleasure slaves the rest of my staff a few hired Thayan servants she can pay them well and they won't cause trouble.

[Warlock]

*Creaking can be heard from the floorboards as a hidden trapdoor reveales itself. A pair of small, glowing eyes peers out from beneth its shadows, giving away a small ''Eeep!'' before hurridly disappearing. A loud crash and sound of construction work emanate from the trapdoor and omnious smoke starts to rise from its creeks. As the sounds become more subdued and distant, a tiny creature wrapped in brown cloth comes out from the smoke. Holding a sign ''HERE BE DRAGONS* *Terms and conditions apply, the Dungeon Master is not responsible for potential dismemberment, illness, undeath, insanity or baldness. Dices are not included.'', it invites you to enter.*

I could consider running a Thayan campaign, it's the nice sort of hellish place combined with political backstabbery and complete disregard for  intrinsic human value. To be honest I've never really used them within my own campaigns, prefering instead to use Cult of the Dragon and Zhentarim, since they combined fullfilled the same role outside of Thay and were geographically closer, so the Red Wizards were just pushed to the wayside.

Seeing the rules discussion, I can't really add much but to say that I'm fine (and prefer) using the Pathfinder skill system and also adding some of their feats. On the characters, I'd OK the Halfling, and would personally describe the slow movement speed as a result of her constantly tripping over her long hair. :P

Going over the Thayan region, I've already found some wonderful gems that could possibly be used as part of political manuvering or excuses for adventuring in a variety of enviroments.

[Zaer Darkwail]

I am fine being RubySlipper's brother and that I would not mind he owns a halfling slave who's knees and legs had broken in enough times that she cannot walk much :P. Or as Warlock said; trips all freaking time on her long hair (for comedy effect).

Anyways to comment on Kunoichi's build; The devoted tracker feat demands that you got smite (something) as requirement and mount class feature to get any use out from it. Wild empathy and track also needed but you get those being ranger at all.

Now, you got mount class feature with your variant (and animal companion via beastmaster, clever move btw). However to get devoted tracker you need take single level dip onto any class which gives a smite ability. Or gain it via race/template.

Now, paladin of tyranny is about being lawful evil. A slave could had devoted it's faith to be a slave; meaning she respects authority in strict sense of the word. So she would not defy her thayan masters but rather be loyal servant/slave.

Now race/template: Fiendish creature is quickest way to get smite good without paladin conduct shehanigans, but it's crappy +1 LA template but you can buy it off with UA rules (so you start bit slower with being 7th level but you should quickly catch up as it costs just 1,000 XP remove +1 LA). Background wise you may have distant fiendish ancestry (common in Thay) or you were summoned from evil plane and brought to prime material plane as slave.

Another a interesting approach is using devil (or celestial) bloodline. However it comes with expense that you get no class levels in 3th and 6th levels (but they count otherwise as 'level' so you get bonus feats and stat bonuses but no BAB, saves, skills, HD etc but it progress CL or using class features like smite). But in return you get stat bonuses and bonus feats and some resistances and skill bonuses.

[Kunoichi]

Looks like we finally found a GM, awesome! ;D As for my character's slow movement speed, I had been thinking of describing her as having a few strategically made scars along the backs of her legs...  But having her need to move slowly in order to avoid tripping over her own hair works even better, now that it's been brought up. :P

And unless anyone else wants her, I suppose she'll be Zaer's character's sexy Halfling slave girl/tamer of exotic beasts.  Hopefully he won't be too rough on her. ;)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Depends....if the halfling behaves and performs well my char would cast enlarge person on her before he goes rough with her. Otherwise...I leave rest on the imagination ;)

[Kunoichi]

Aren't you banning Transmutation, though? :P I'm pretty sure that takes Enlarge Person out of the picture...

[Warlock]

Aren't you banning Transmutation, though? :P I'm pretty sure that takes Enlarge Person out of the picture...

Can always use the trusty Wand of Enlarge Person, 1x50 minutes of funtime for 750gp.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Aren't you banning Transmutation, though? :P I'm pretty sure that takes Enlarge Person out of the picture...

I ban it upon entering red wizard PrC, it specifically mentions 'red wizard can use spells what he had learned in his banned school'. So it means I forbid myself learning any further transmutation spells and by level 5 I know 3th level transmutation spells (or higher level if I use gold buy scrolls and have reasonable chance scribe said spells on my spellbook).

[Kunoichi]

xD Good points, both of you.  Alright, I suppose my Halfling character is going to wind up getting her size changed around quite a bit in the near future, as well as possibly undergoing even stranger transformations.  I suppose that's just one of the dangers of being an attractive slave girl in Thay...

[Ironwolf85]

Hence why I proposed joint ownership.  You could reap the rewards of owning a slave while letting someone else deal with the troublesome parts. :P

Edit: Ah, and before I head off to bed, I've got a recommended build for Ironwolf.  Whichever LA 0 Aberration race you wind up taking, you should be able to squeeze in most of the relevant Illithid abilities with the following build:

Psion (Telepath) 5/Flayerspawn Psychic 2/Mindbender (Psionic variant) 1

Mindbender is from Complete Arcane, and the adaptation section notes that it could be altered for psionic classes by just making it so that it advances powers instead of spellcasting, and changing the requirements a little.  It grants you Telepathy out to 100 ft, which is an ability that actual Mind Flayers have.  You get 4 feats from leveling (1, 3, 5, 7), 2 from Flaws, and one bonus Illithid Heritage feat from Flayerspawn Psychic, which is enough to pick up Illithid Heritage, Illithid Skin, Illithid Grapple x4, and Illithid Extraction, as well as the Illithid Blast feat that FP gives you.  Add on the manifester levels from your psionic classes, and you're pretty much a Mind Flayer in all the ways that matter, plus you get the two bonus feats from Psion still leftover. ^^

I'll take this probably throw in some flash and boom powers for flavor.
background I'm thinking because this is adult Xeni slept her way up the ladders of power in Thay using her mind control powers. I'll have a full writeup when I finish the sheet.

[Kunoichi]

I'll take this probably throw in some flash and boom powers for flavor.
background I'm thinking because this is adult Xeni slept her way up the ladders of power in Thay using her mind control powers. I'll have a full writeup when I finish the sheet.

I'd be happy to help out on power selection as well, if you find yourself needing advice in that area when you reach that step. ^^ As far as background goes, it should be noted that Thay's economy is pretty heavily reliant on the slave trade.  Perhaps Xeni could be some wealthy Illithid merchant-slaver, who regularly does business in Thay?

Of course, that wouldn't preclude sleeping with certain VIP customers to get inroads into local politics, or making use of your formidable mental powers to gain an advantage while negotiating...

[RubySlippers]

I ban it upon entering red wizard PrC, it specifically mentions 'red wizard can use spells what he had learned in his banned school'. So it means I forbid myself learning any further transmutation spells and by level 5 I know 3th level transmutation spells (or higher level if I use gold buy scrolls and have reasonable chance scribe said spells on my spellbook).

Its like a mini-prohibition save it bans learning new spells not existing spells or magic off items.

But if I recall you can't learn any new spells from said school at all, but could be wrong.

[Zaer Darkwail]

The ban forbids learning any further spells nor use magic devices which contain spells which are not in your spellbook. But example if I studied alter self as 2th level spell, I can memorize, cast it and use magic devices which contain that spell (like scroll or wand).

[RubySlippers]

No issue I'm dropping as specialist prohibited schools Evocation (Conjuration is plenty damaging and has some good spells for breadth), Illusion (clearly an inferior school so why bother  :D ) and will restrict as a Red Wizard the Enchantment school it has some good spells up to that point and with a feat will snag more spells a level to play with.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, as tip for conjurer you could be focused specialist, meaning you get additional forbidden school, but also you get +2 more specialist slots (and loose -1 general slot).

So overall you get overall -1 less slot per spell level but get +3 specialist slots for conjuration spells. I myself would use Evocation, Necromancy and Enchantment as banned schools. But you could take illusion as banned school instead (note; summoned or planar binded monsters can use abilities which you cannot cast) and then lock enchantment as red wizard (or go lock transmutation, depending do you value enchantment or transmutation long run).

However, as tip Mask of Ideal is illusion spell but it provides +4 charisma bonus (untyped) against to creatures which you planar bind. Enchantment can easily give debufs like touch of idiocy, geas and so forth.

But then again there is feat in Lost Empires of Faerun which allows cast single spell from forbidden school (a very useful feat to pick teleport if you banned conjuration example).

[Kunoichi]

By the way, Ruby and Zaer, seeing as you two are playing brother and sister for this game...  Incest, yes or no? :P

Also, would this image (nsfw) be a fitting one for my character?  Or is it too close to wearing clothing for the purposes of being required to be nude by law?

[Zaer Darkwail]

I myself would be okay with incest but up to RubySlippers decide is there any such thing going on between. My char definitely is going to be neutral evil (aiming to be Shar worshiper after all). But even if I am selfish evil in alignment, he would not betray his sister easily unless doing so outweighs benefits keeping her as ally (and alive, as if he turns on her he must kill her asap).

Anyways I find that pic fine for me, I think 'no clothes' depend on whims of slave's master and my char would allow (or even tell her) wear fetish clothing. Fancier kind (and good quality) as it shows off his wealth to 'pamper' his slaves with finer clothing.

[Warlock]

I think we need to clarify things on the clothes front. Here's the actual passage from ''Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting'' p.206: ''Although slaves may be altered in anyway by their owners at a whim, they are forbidden to cut their own hair or choose their own garb (most are kept near naked).''

Hehe. :)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Aha, so slave owners decide matter of clothing (so nudity is only if owner so wishes the slave to be in). Nudity may be common if the slave is beautiful specimen (so owners can stare all way their slave being nude).

So as owner of Kunoichi's slave char I have got her fetish attire (like in pic she linked). Genitals and breasts shown but otherwise she can be clothed/armored.

[Kunoichi]

Either way, I'm glad I've found a good picture for my character's appearance. ^^ Now to decide on some names and finalize the character sheet...

[Zaer Darkwail]

I should also get down to make mine as well. I decided go with Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 2/Red Wizard 3 because I realized that if I am 20th level (someday) I could make Simalcrum clones of mine to lead circles....and thus extend their uses when they buff me when I lead the circle.

Example; if I buff each simalcrum have single prepared 20th level spell, they cast it to buff me and even if I lead five members I get 100 stored spell levels to buff myself and spells which I prepared.

Assuming GM allows such shehanigans :P.

[RubySlippers]

Focused specialist is not bad I took some of the variants but I would still be up a spell doing that, and other schools are all inferior anyway.  :D

I'm dropping Enhantment, Illusion and Necromancy and as a Red Wizard hitting Evocation.

That leaves:
Conjuration the mightiest of all the schools of the Art.
Abjuration (defense magic)
Divination (enhanced intel is always good)
Transmutation (broadest of all schools)
Universal
and some Evocation spells.

That will do.

[Warlock]

I should also get down to make mine as well. I decided go with Illusionist 3/Master Specialist 2/Red Wizard 3 because I realized that if I am 20th level (someday) I could make Simalcrum clones of mine to lead circles....and thus extend their uses when they buff me when I lead the circle.

Example; if I buff each simalcrum have single prepared 20th level spell, they cast it to buff me and even if I lead five members I get 100 stored spell levels to buff myself and spells which I prepared.

Assuming GM allows such shehanigans :P.

I'm just going to qoute myself ''Rule Five: What you can do, I can do better. Power gaming is a joy unto itself, a player pushing the limits of what the system allows. Beautiful. A Game Master does not suffer under any restrictions, keep that in mind.
'' That said, I enjoy devious minds and dastardly plans.

A quick reminder: We're using Pathfinder's consilidated skill system which means the following changes. With the exception of Concentration staying. Feats are also gained at every odd level instead of normal feat progression.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Ok, that's decent. I ran into trouble with mine as I want keep shadow weave schools open for mine. But then again I take variant which removes the extra spell slots as specialist (instead giving +2 illusion spells per level and any class learned illusions are treated as learned by spell mastery feat).

Illusionist bans; Conjuration&Evocation (flash and bang and as illusionist I can copycat either school spells mostly via shadow evocation/conjuration)

Red Wizard ban; Transmutation (learned all useful ones at level 5 and spending enormous amount gold on scribing some top best transmute spells, or need plan take 3 feats to break out from the ban)

Leaves;

Abjuration - Defense spells, must have for any wizard in country infested arcane using rivals
Divination - Cannot ban, nor want to
Illusion - Most underestimated magic school with some potent defense spells and some which allows bull some credible bullshit (silent image on wall to create image of a wall, thus force adventurer using detect magic run straight to wall for 1d8 damage inflicted on self for cheap laughs)
Necromancy - Debufs and powerful minions! Just need corpses! Save or die spells! Also if facing necromancer can take over it's minions (or blast them).
Enchantment - Make enemies your friends and helps debuf foes to be weaker against illusions.
Universal - Here I come wish!

Warlock: Understood! So do you allow using energy transformation field spell scroll, arcane energy manipulation (feat from Lost Empire of Faerun) and use of spell engine spell scroll and Absorption scrolls to able get 34 9th level spells in 10th level ^_^

Of course above tactic needs lots of gold and able get hands on wizard who can scribe said spells naturally....but we are in country which founded magic walmart

[Warlock]

Warlock: Understood! So do you allow using energy transformation field spell scroll, arcane energy manipulation (feat from Lost Empire of Faerun) and use of spell engine spell scroll and Absorption scrolls to able get 34 9th level spells in 10th level ^_^

Of course above tactic needs lots of gold and able get hands on wizard who can scribe said spells naturally....but we are in country which founded magic walmart

I honestly wonder why Red Wizards and the Hathrans (also have circle magic) don't use this on a massive scale, it's the equivalent of real-world nukes.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Most reason is that red wizards do not cooperate so well together. No doubt if you purchase spell engine, absorption and energy transformation field from same red wizard, he no doubt starts connect dots in there and start wonder what for your collecting said scrolls.

As 10th level apprentice nuking his master is possible in surprise (and before master does his circle empowerment for the day). Hathrans other hand may be less ambitious and they have more respect and fear for magic than red wizards do (who are naturally high and mighty arrogant, it's like Thay got bad personality traits from Netheril and Hathrans got the good traits).

But indeed the potential of circle magic is darn fun and thus one reason why I grew interest play red wizard this year once I realized how freaking amazing it can be (and broken at times).

[RubySlippers]

Actually all you need are apprentices that is the leader must have Circle Leader and the other five powering them must have Magic Tattooes read peons say all 3rd level they feed the master each  2nd level spell its +10 Levels for the day and if they dare decide to attack the red wizard they better win and I won't teach mine the variant tricks or focused specialization to keep the advantage.

It would help if the master is more trustworthy my character is not an asshole, likely her apprentices would be less likely to turn on her. At least if chosen properly.  ;D

[Warlock]

Actually all you need are apprentices that is the leader must have Circle Leader and the other five powering them must have Magic Tattooes read peons say all 3rd level they feed the master each  2nd level spell its +10 Levels for the day and if they dare decide to attack the red wizard is one they fail the master can do what they want to the peons.

It would help if the master is more trustworthy my character is not an asshole, likely her apprentices would be less likely to turn on her. At least if chosen properly.  ;D

Which is why we have spells like Dominate Monster/Person and Simulacrum to do away with pesky details such as free will. :P

[RubySlippers]

Or an outside threat like a war, a slave uprising and so forth to kind of force the Red Wizards to suck it up for the good of the nation.

[Kunoichi]

I suddenly feel as though I should be making much more optimized choices with my mount's feat selections... :P I wonder if mounts can pick up flaws?

Edit: I'm serious about that question, by the way. >>; Tentative stats for the tiger so far are...

RAGNOSS, Magebred Tiger
Size/Type: Large Outsider (Native)
Hit Dice: 10d8+18 (62 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 27 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +11 natural, +5 armor), touch 11, flat-footed 25
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+23
Attack: Claw +21 melee (1d6+9+good aligned)
Full Attack: 2 claws +21 melee (1d6+9+good aligned) and bite +19 melee (1d8+4+good aligned)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, pounce, rake 1d8+4
Special Qualities: Empathic link, excellent learner, improved evasion, low-light vision, scent, share saving throws, share spells, swift breed
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +11, Will +8
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 18, Con 19, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Acrobatics +21 (+33 Jump), Climb +15, Intimidate +11, Knowledge (Local Thay) +11, Perception +14, Stealth +17 (+21 in tall grass), Survival +7, Swim +22
Feats: Bravado (Flaw; cannot use dodge bonuses to AC or use the withdraw action), Fussy (Flaw; sickened for the duration of any ingested potion, -4 to Fort saves vs ingested poison), Multiattack (B), Apprentice (Soldier), Otherworldly, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Knockback
Equipment:
+1 Mithral Chain Tiger Barding


Needless to say, I think that buffing the tiger is going to be a valid combat tactic for at least one of our wizards. :P

[RubySlippers]

I have one use for the slave, guard when I go to the market to get my monthly gold from merchants she put money into, I will cut her brother in for 20% of the gold for the use of her unless she fucks up then I'll see she is severely dealt with.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Fine with the 20% cut but any punishment should decided by me as I am primary owner, you can do any non-permament harm to her as you wish of course. But if you leave a scar I ask refund or money enough for me go to Kossuth temple to remove the scar.

Kunoichi: What is knockback? Is it a feat? Anyways overall it's up to ST decide are flaws allowed or not but I would say the both flaws you picked are quite horrible and would prefer not have them on the tiger. Ingested poisons is common tactic to make your pets unusable in Thay (and easy to fool to eat poisoned stake).

Also Bravado negates some spells buffs which give dodge bonuses :P. So not able buff it that much. But anyways let's go with the feat build; Multiattack (base, thus free), Apprentice:Soldier (curious but possible as animal has Int 6, gives nice class skills and bonuses, just remember large size gives +4 intimidate bonus), Power Attack (must haves), Improved Bull Rush (nice combat maneuver), Shock Trooper (nice applications to bull rush and gives nice battlefield control).

Leap Attack would must have in later levels, as you leap and pounce from all things....it's plain ugly to watch.

I do remember there was magic item, horse shoes (but can be anklets) which give air walk as at-will for mount. Or even increased land speed +30'ft.

[Kunoichi]

That arrangement works for me, too.  The Halfling slave girl (whose name I have decided is Rima) would also be able to double as a pleasure slave, if anyone's character is into that sort of thing. :P

And Zaer, keeping the mount from being poisoned would probably be one of Rima's responsibilities.  Though, to help out with that, Ragnoss does have his own Travel Cloak to provide him with the daily amount of food and water that he requires.  As for the Bravado flaw, do you have any alternatives to recommend?

Knockback is a feat from Races of Stone.

[Warlock]

I suddenly feel as though I should be making much more optimized choices with my mount's feat selections... :P I wonder if mounts can pick up flaws?

Needless to say, I think that buffing the tiger is going to be a valid combat tactic for at least one of our wizards. :P

If flaws are allowed for animal companions/mounts would depend on how liberal you are with the word ''create'', and we could check the definition of the word to see if we can find something....

cre•ate (kriˈeɪt)
v. -at•ed, -at•ing,
adj. v.t.
5. to arrange or bring about, as by intention or design: to create confusion.

You select a base creature as a mount, so there isn't a ''creation'' in a normal sense, but since you need to make adjustment because the mount ability often grants additional abilities that you need to arrange and include then it would fit under definition and larger concept of ''create'' in ''A player may select up to two flaws when creating a character. ''.
*sniffs*

My work is done. I could arbitrarily OK it, but where's the fun in that. xD
--------------------------------------------------

Kunoichi: What is knockback? Is it a feat? Anyways overall it's up to ST decide are flaws allowed or not but I would say the both flaws you picked are quite horrible and would prefer not have them on the tiger. Ingested poisons is common tactic to make your pets unusable in Thay (and easy to fool to eat poisoned stake).

Also Bravado negates some spells buffs which give dodge bonuses :P. So not able buff it that much. But anyways let's go with the feat build; Multiattack (base, thus free), Apprentice:Soldier (curious but possible as animal has Int 6, gives nice class skills and bonuses, just remember large size gives +4 intimidate bonus), Power Attack (must haves), Improved Bull Rush (nice combat maneuver), Shock Trooper (nice applications to bull rush and gives nice battlefield control).

Knockback feat

I'd honestly say that they're good. Flaws are supposed to penalize the character in some way. Both are a good mix of social and combat related penalties (and can add further complications).

[RubySlippers]

Oh are her magic items going to be Shadow Weave items or standard seeing who owns her.

Still refining my character, but she is coming along. But what is the starting gold for an 8th Level character?

[Warlock]

Oh are her magic items going to be Shadow Weave items or standard seeing who owns her.

Still refining my character, but she is coming along. But what is the starting gold for an 8th Level character?

27'00gp

[Zaer Darkwail]

Shadow weave user can only use shadow weave items and they are made by shadow weave users. So that sense I strongly likely take apprentice (and convert it to mentor) feat to get UMD as class skill so I can use weave magic items like wands, scrolls etc. Plus mentor gives me a 4th level apprentice and two levels later said apprentice becomes cohort :D

Kunoichi, would you like roleplay also my apprentice gained via mentor?

Anyways if GM allows feat and if you check tiger does not eat anything contained poisonous then ok. Although the Bravado is tricky but can work around it perhaps (some spells give luck bonus to AC).

[Kunoichi]

Sure, I wouldn't mind roleplaying your Apprentice.  And if she's going to double as a cohort, I've even got some build ideas. ^^ Seeing as we're rather light on healing, a priestess of the church of Shar could be useful to have around...

[Zaer Darkwail]

Sure, I wouldn't mind roleplaying your Apprentice.  And if she's going to double as a cohort, I've even got some build ideas. ^^ Seeing as we're rather light on healing, a priestess of the church of Shar could be useful to have around...

Ok, just remember for her to qualify as my apprentice she needs to have one level in same class as I do to qualify as apprentice. So a specialist wizard (not necessary illusion specialist). Also as general rule apprentice does not accompany in adventures but it's up to GM decide. It's harder to keep apprenticeship going if task where my char is send takes several weeks to complete. So it could be ruled apprentice comes along but does not directly partake in dangerous parts of adventures.

[RubySlippers]

Who says she will be adventuring I was planning on sticking to role-playing her but as a retired fortune seeker, and money will not be an issue with her feat plus will allow her options to recruit more funding by issuing bonds of investment for others minus her Patron who gets investments for their network at no costs.

She is a middle level professional Red Wizard, mostly worked to get the robes to make sure options open up in commerce and chooses her politics carefully. And there is only one Zulkier truly on top and we know who that is.  >:)

[Kunoichi]

Actually, Zaer, from what I'm reading, the mentor and apprentice aren't required to have the same class.  Your apprentice just won't get bonus spells per day for being your apprentice if she isn't a wizard.  And with the build I've got in mind, she should be able to do fine as a cloistered cleric...

[RubySlippers]

Just pointing out I'm a role-player she will have her strong points but risking her neck to seek power is not one of them, even though she has the mind for it she doesn't have the heart.

[Kunoichi]

That's okay, I'm sure we'll stumble into dangerous and exciting situations somehow. :P Rivals might send assassins, or a bound demon could break free...  Plenty of possibilities for danger on the streets of Thayan cities.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Actually, Zaer, from what I'm reading, the mentor and apprentice aren't required to have the same class.  Your apprentice just won't get bonus spells per day for being your apprentice if she isn't a wizard.  And with the build I've got in mind, she should be able to do fine as a cloistered cleric...

Aha, ok. Cloistered Cleric is fine for me.

[Snake]

That's true though. Thay is very dangerous for most people.

[Kunoichi]

Okay, keeping the build fairly simple, let's make her a Cloistered Cleric 6 whose patron goddess is Shar.  From what I can find online, that makes her domain choices Cavern, Darkness, Evil, Knowledge and Undeath.  That seems... a bit limited for the greater deity who set up the Shadow Weave (no Magic domain for that?  Not even Trickery?), but I think I can work with it.

Knowledge Domain for free from Cloistered Cleric, Evil Domain has some decent spells to it, especially if we can buff her caster level, Undeath gets a free Extra Turning feat...

For feats, Apprentice (Spellcaster) is a must, of course, adding UMD to her spell list.  Initiate of Shar would be good for her human bonus feat, making Bluff and Stealth into class skills and adding a few extra spells known.  Assuming we could find some fitting flaws (Coward and Skulker?), I'm thinking we can add on Darkstalker to help her stealth skills further.

Extend Spell for the other bonus feat, then Persist at 3rd, Divine Metamagic (Persist) at 5th, and that's feat selection all taken care of for now. ^^ She'll be picking up Shadow Weave Magic at 7th and Tenacious Magic at 9th, but aside from that I don't have too many further plans for her feats.

STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 16
CHA: 16

Trained skills will be Stealth, Knowledge (Religion), Use Magic Device, Spellcraft, Concentration, Bluff, Diplomacy and some sort of fitting Profession (Temple Prostitute?), and I'm thinking she's definitely going to be more of a social contact and healer, rather than any sort of fighter-type character.  A couple of Persisted Mass Lesser Vigors can keep the party in good health if any adventuring needs to be done, and otherwise she'll mostly just hide and do occasional utility casting.

[RubySlippers]

We are level eight.

[Kunoichi]

Yes, and Zaer noted that this Apprentice of his would function as a cohort.  If she was his equal, it wouldn't be much of an apprenticeship, now would it? ;)

[Zaer Darkwail]

I wonder also why Shar lacks Trickery domain, the trickery devotion is awesome! Also I agree magic should also included in Shar as she is creator of shadow weave.

Anyways for future a dip level on shadow adept would give you all other shadow weave feats what you need (it progresses cleric cast also I think).

However, as I change apprentice to mentor feat in 5th level, it means your apprentice was in 1st level when I was in 5th level. When I gain level, my apprentice also gains it. So in 8th level the apprentice is 4th level (and I need 1 more level so she falls to 5th level and transforms into a cohort).

Besides that, evil and undead domains are best as main thing from Darkness domain (armor of darkness and darkbolts) you get as initiate of Shar.

But as tip; another race which you could be is Illumian. There is power sigil combination known as Naenhoon, it allows twice a day on swift action to extend one or more rebuke/turn undead attempts to use a metamagic feat for free on any spell. You need extend metamagic feat increase slots in turn/rebuke undead daily attempts.

So, 6 uses of rebuke/turn undead and you got 9 of them thanks undead domain. Now, you get benefit of a feat through racial but also loose bonus feat for being not human :P. Also it's limited to twice a day, however you could take extra turning in 5th level to get 12 attempts per day (so use persistent spell twice a day). Compared to feat you spend -1 attempt use per day to use persistent spell, also unlike the feat it's not connected to metamagic feat you have (you can use it on any metamagic feat you have).

Also the power sigils give +2 to all wisdom, intelligence and constitution checks (and skill checks although need choose between Wis or Con skills which bonus it goes to). With a feat you can get these upgraded to +3. Besides this what else you get?

Well, Glyphic Resonance (ignore any glyph spells same or under class level, damn useful for sneaky cleric), +2 saves vs anything related to shadow plane (and shadow weave magic), Linquistic as class skill (forgery and speak language).

Also if take sigil feats, can get +2 bonus to vs death effects, massive dmg, non-lethal dmg from hot/cold or illusions and language dependant abilities.

Plus cool ability make glowing runes dance around your head and provide night light for reading :P.

[RubySlippers]

As a rule my character is likely to nest focusing on making the family money, nesting, you others can focus on power and glory.

[Zaer Darkwail]

btw RubySlippers, check pg180 in DMG II; Running a Business. Perhaps we could implement those rules for your merchant playing and determine how much business (and what events) occur :).

[Warlock]

btw RubySlippers, check pg180 in DMG II; Running a Business. Perhaps we could implement those rules for your merchant playing and determine how much business (and what events) occur :).

I'll take a peek at them aswell as soon as I have the book infront of me.

[Zaer Darkwail]

They are pretty good, gives realistic method how to get income as PC or even as commoner. Although if want run business as farmer you need optimize a lot as 1st level commoner to be successful (or lots of farmhands, wife and kids give aid another rolls).

[Kunoichi]

However, as I change apprentice to mentor feat in 5th level, it means your apprentice was in 1st level when I was in 5th level. When I gain level, my apprentice also gains it. So in 8th level the apprentice is 4th level (and I need 1 more level so she falls to 5th level and transforms into a cohort).

Actually, based on what I've found for the Apprentice and Mentor feats, they seem to work pretty differently from the way you think they do. ^^; You graduate from your apprenticeship at 5th level and can then take the Mentor feat and gain an Apprentice, but the Apprentice isn't treated like some mini-cohort who just gets left several levels behind you.  Instead, the Apprentice is a fully separate NPC who starts at level 1 and whose advancement is entirely in the hands of the DM.  And once your Apprentice hits level 5 they graduate from their apprenticeship and you have to seek out a new Apprentice.

For what you want, I think you'd be better off ditching the Mentor feat altogether and just asking to take Leadership.  You can just say that your various followers are all your apprentices and servants, while your cohort could be your girlfriend or something like that. :P

[RubySlippers]

I'll take a peek at them aswell as soon as I have the book infront of me.

I have a feat, its easy I invest in a market say 1000gp and every month there is a 50/50 chance of I earn 25% of that back ,indefinitely, until I remove the money and can't lose normally unless said market is destroyed. Say I invest in the nearest city in the grain market and a dragon eats it I lose the money. I see no reason to do all that other stuff and she is not trained in that sort of business she focused on investing. And I can do this for anyone say Ssazz Tam gives her 100,000go there is  50/50 chance that will make money with no loss indefinitely. Minus a small fee per month she can rake in tons of gold and never really have to do much.

I'm not using a ton of rules to run a tavern that is for peasants she is a Red Wizard she is above mundane work.  ;D

[RubySlippers]

btw RubySlippers, check pg180 in DMG II; Running a Business. Perhaps we could implement those rules for your merchant playing and determine how much business (and what events) occur :).

I don't have access to those rules anyway.

[Kunoichi]

The DMG Ii rules are pretty simple, and mostly revolve around making monthly skill checks in order to see how well you run whatever business you choose to establish.  That said, because the rules revolve around skill checks, they're not exactly hard to abuse for ridiculous gains...

It sounds to me like Ruby is more interested in using the Pathfinder feat to essentially play her character as some sort of medieval stock market consultant.

[RubySlippers]

No to make money, she is a financier and is good at finding opportunities and letting other people do the work, she taking her profits for the money. She can do that for anyone else to.

[Re Z L]

Are there any classes and things strictly off-limits?  I hadn't noticed anything like that...

I'm fiddling around with some ideas and knowing if there are any restrictions may help  :D

[Kunoichi]

I don't think that we have any classes off-limits, though the DM has given a warning to the effect that he'll be responding in kind to anyone who goes overboard on the power levels.  So, presumably you wouldn't want to bring something like the infamous Locate City Bomb to the table, but aside from that any basic ideas you have build-wise should be good. :P

[Zaer Darkwail]

Kunoichi: Ah, that case I would want keep my cohort instead. My bad misreading the feat then. But I do also like having +2 bonus to my four skills for having apprentice, so can I keep the bonuses even if my apprentice graduated and became my cohort? If I do continue give her lessons 8 hours per day the bonuses would stay right?

Anyways here comes my char in below. According the DMG II regarding how high level my mentor is, he is 10th level (or 11th if assume I was LE when I started studies as apprentice but later moved to neutral evil and it does not affect mentor's level after taking the feat).

I decided my mentor (when I was apprentice) is Samas Kul, zulkir of transmutation. Considering he is 15th level I assume it's okay so long he does not give me 6th level or higher spells copied for free from his spellbook. Now so far as I understand the apprentice feat for wizards it means I can copy higher level spells from mentor's spellbook instead just getting spells which are appropriate for my level. So example in 2th level I could copy from master's book a 4th level spell and so forth.

Anyways only big stuff is scroll of time stop which I purchased with my gold to copy that spell on my spellbook. Also I wonder are Dead Levels article stuff okay? If so, RubySlippers can also add animated writing as class feature from her wizard levels :). Anyways RubySlippers did not write any family background, childhood, relatives etc so I went creative with my char background. If RubySlippers find something offensive in there I can edit it; either change or remove it entirely.

Rhaza Ankhemon

Biography

Rhaza Ankhemon was born to family of ancient Mulan nobility who had fallen to bad times to point they struggled to keep themselves fed by working as merchants. In their ancestry there has not been great mages for generations (which is one reason for their fall). However they had retained some their ancestors glories in form of study books, which most rest family considered garbage (as nobody wanted buy them) but both Rhaza and his sister Gehennora read them.

However when red wizard visited to test family's two children, Rhaza and Gehennora, they both showed great potential for magic. Naturally parents were overjoyed for it, as it meant they can be finally elevated from squandron! Naturally they auctioned their children to two different zulkirs to become apprentices (their slaves basically if not in name) and get generous sum of money for it.

Rhaza and Gehennora was moved to two different masters but they were old enough and skilled enough to write for each other, red wizards did not forbid writing letters after all to your relatives although meeting your siblings is rare luxury (more so if said sibling studied under another zulkir). Rhaza lived in Eltabbar in his studies so he met slaves everyday and saw plenty of them in sale in market. During one market day there was on sale somethign exotic; a halfling and a tiger as a pair?! halfling was pretty and what slave seller told she was trained rider for the tiger and also trained in....other sensual purposes. Rhaza had curiosity (carnal sort) towards halfling species at the time and on their language. So he bought her and her tiger for himself and learned her name to be Rima. Over the years he has grow fond of her, like a delicate rare pet which he grooms and praises when successful and crops when it misbehaves or does not perform well when she is capable doing so. He does not punish failures if they are pushing her on the limits. Also she is regular target for enlarge person spell for the all obvious reasons in bedroom side.....once she suggested him trying smaller size she regretted uttering even hint Rhaza becoming lesser being.

Also in city of slaves he got in contact with Shar cult through one sexual orgy which was ran by Loviatar cultists to some slaves (in behalf of slave master)....as cooperative ceremony between Shar worshipers and whip mistresses to both celebrate pain and also alleviate sorrow and express hatred (give slaves relief to reduce uprising). Rhaza was not drawn by Shar's doghma but more by shadow weave magic what cultists employed....he was quite tempted to learn use said magic so he formed contact to the cult through her.

Rhaza studied and spend much time indoors, he hated traveling as he had accursed motion sickness which he had suffered entire life. Even teleportation causes it for brief time. He was excellent and bright student and very cunning and persuasive indeed. Also he studied ancient lores and ancient magics of Netherese and even other non-human race in origin. He studied much about transmutation magic from his mentor, Dmitra Flass, Zulkir of Illusion and also called as first princess of the Thay. When he graduated and then became red wizard he forsworn further studies of transmutation. Explain his choice to his mentor who had wondered why he had focused so much on transmutation and then abandon it; 'I have learned all useful things from that school and thus it holds no longer mysteries useful to my future. If I need use something I can use magic item to duplicate it.' His mentor approved his choice in the matter. Although she herself had not banned transmutation when she became red wizard.

Rhaza immediately formed contact with his sister and met her first time face to face for over ten years. As she has keen business skills and interests Rhaza benefits living with her for now while he provides her support when she has needs for his talents or spells. Although Rhaza chastises her for lack of grander ambitions than he. Rhaza dislikes his family though; as he feels they are useless leeches which drain him and his sisters success to benefit themselves and he had more than once considered killing them off and thus heritage the entire remaining property for himself and sister. But so far he has decided effort doing so outweighs the benefits.

After graduation Rhaza learned to use shadow weave from the cult which he visited regularly but before he is indoctrinated deeper to the cult (and it's precious delicious secrets) he had to train a apprentice himself, not wizard but a cleric and teach her about lore what he had studied as wizard and especially about magic. So he took her in and taught her what he knew. Growing close in process as they both had passion for learning more knowledge, sometimes learn just sheer joy of expanding one's knowledge. It's not love, but more a respect between them and also simple lust.

[Kunoichi]

Kunoichi: Ah, that case I would want keep my cohort instead. My bad misreading the feat then. But I do also like having +2 bonus to my four skills for having apprentice, so can I keep the bonuses even if my apprentice graduated and became my cohort? If I do continue give her lessons 8 hours per day the bonuses would stay right?

Anyways here comes my char in below. According the DMG II regarding how high level my mentor is, he is 10th level (or 11th if assume I was LE when I started studies as apprentice but later moved to neutral evil and it does not affect mentor's level after taking the feat).

The +2 competence bonus comes from taking the Mentor feat, so if you're taking Leadership instead, you wouldn't get the bonus.  Though, since your followers from Leadership don't gain levels, if you have both Leadership and Mentor you could easily have one or more of them have the Apprentice feat and get the bonus that way.  Of course, since it's a competence bonus, it won't stack with most skill-boosting items...

As for your Mentor, the only real requirement for him is that he be 5th level at minimum, to qualify for the Mentor feat.  Aside from that, he's an NPC and only gains levels when the DM decides he does.

I decided my mentor (when I was apprentice) is Samas Kul, zulkir of transmutation. Considering he is 15th level I assume it's okay so long he does not give me 6th level or higher spells copied for free from his spellbook. Now so far as I understand the apprentice feat for wizards it means I can copy higher level spells from mentor's spellbook instead just getting spells which are appropriate for my level. So example in 2th level I could copy from master's book a 4th level spell and so forth.

Considering Thayan culture, I think your Mentor would probably be specialized in the same school of magic that you are.  The political hierarchy is pretty heavily divided between the eight different schools of magic in Thay, and the Zulkirs in particular are at the top of each respective faction, so I doubt that Samas Kul would even deign to teach magic to a student who was planning to specialize in a school other than Transmutation.  And if that student was also planning to stop studying Transmutation altogether in order to more closely devote himself to another school when he became a Red Wizard...

Yeah, I really don't think that Samas Kul would work as a mentor. ^^; Perhaps your mentor could be Dmitra Flass, instead?

Biography

Rhaza Ankhemon was born to family of farmers. In their ancestry there has not been great mages or such but the family was wealthy enough to buy books for reading and had slaves working on fields so family lived in comfort (and continues do so today).

However when red wizard visited to test family's two children, Rhaza and Gehennora, they both showed great potential for magic. Naturally parents were overjoyed for it, but also saddened as they will now loose their children as red wizard who intents train them buys children off them and they are not raised nor meet parents until they graduate. If they wish meet their commoner parents at all that is once they have ascended to ranks of red wizards.

Rhaza and Gehennora was moved to two different masters but they were old enough and skilled enough to write for each other, red wizards did not forbid writing letters after all. Rhaza lived in Bezantur, city of thousand temples and also one dealing exports to foreign trade and importing it's main goods; slaves from elsewhere. During the market day there was on sale a pretty but very much beaten and abused halfling, Rhaza did not feel sympathy for her but he had curiosity towards halfling species at the time and on their language. So he bought her and he then trained her. Over the years he grow fond of her, like a delicate rare pet which he grooms and praises when successful and crops when it misbehaves or does not perform well when she is capable doing so. He does not punish failures if they are pushing her on the limits. Also she is regular target for enlarge person spell for the all obvious reasons in bedroom side.....once she suggested him trying smaller size she regretted uttering even hint Rhaza becoming lesser being.

He used various methods in training and discipline her, she was just mere child but he had access to resources for good trainers and she became very well trained indeed, more so as she bonded to one mage bred experimental tigers which she started use as mount and practice archery. So besides being pleasure slave she served as also Rhaza's bodyguard.

Also in city of temples he got in contact with Shar cult through one sexual orgy which was ran by Loviatar cultists....a cooperative ceremony between Shar worshippers and whip mistresses to both celebrate pain and also alleviate sorrow and express hatred. Rhaza was not drawn by Shar's doghma but more by shadow weave magic what cultists employed....he was quite tempted to learn use said magic so he formed contact to the cult through her.

Rhaza studied and spend much time indoors, he hated traveling as he had accursed motion sickness which he had suffered entire life. Even teleportation causes it for brief time. He was excellent and bright student and very cunning and persuasive indeed. Also he studied ancient lores and ancient magics of Netherese and even other non-human race in origin. He studied much about transmutation magic from his mentor, Samas Kul, Zulkir of Transmutation. But when he graduated and then became red wizard he forsworn further studies of transmutation! Saying that 'I have learned all useful things from that school and thus it holds no longer mysteries useful to my future. If I need use something I can use magic item to duplicate it.' Naturally his mentor was furious for this but it no longer mattered; Rhaza was graduate and thus independent red wizard.

He immediately formed contact with his sister and met her first time face to face for over ten years. As she has keen business skills and interests Rhaza benefits living with her for now while he provides her support when she has needs for his talents or spells. Although Rhaza chastises her for lack of grander ambitions than he. Rhaza did not contact his parents nor his younger brother who apparently had born after he and his sister had left. He thinks he is above them and thus it's below for him associate with his humble beginnings.

Rhaza after graduation learned to use shadow weave but before he is indoctrinated deeper to the cult (and it's precious delicious secrets) he had to train a apprentice himself, not wizard but a cleric and teach her about lore what he had studied as wizard and especially about magic. So he took her in and taught her what he knew. Growing close in process as they both had passion for learning more knowledge, sometimes learn just sheer joy of expanding one's knowledge. It's not love, but more a respect between them and also simple lust.

Important note about Thay's population: From what I've read, in Thay, there are two major ethnic groups.  The Mulan are the nobility, descendants of the original chunk of the Mulhorandi Empire that rebelled against their oppressive god-kings and used wizardry to establish the nation of Thay, and the Rashemi are the common folk, the farmers and lesser merchants and such.

In Thay, only the nobles are allowed to learn the art of magic, though some commoners do get trained in secret if they prove to be particularly talented.  Even then, they generally don't get to be Red Wizards, though.  Assuming Ruby is alright with that general backstory, you might want to change it so that the two of you are landless nobles, coming from a family that hit hard times and now has a title and some money, but little else to their name.  Your character could have a disdain for his family due to viewing them as parasites who want to leech off of the success he's found, rather than merely seeing himself as being above them.

Edit: Or the two of you could come from a family of landowners, who primarily make their living leasing out the land that they own to common farmers and make a nice profit off of the rent.  That would pretty much let you keep your backstory as it is, with no major changes needed.


As for my character, Rima, the basic backstory I've come up with for her is that she was born and raised in a small community in the Hordelands that was formed from escaped slaves who managed to make it across the Thayan borders.  Said community was raided by slavers when she was fairly young, and she was captured as part of that raid.  Once the slavers joined up with a larger caravan to transport their humanoid cargo to a Thayan market, the Orcs guarding the caravan got it into their heads that it would be great fun to toss one of the smaller, scrawnier slaves into the pen of a large, exotic tiger that another merchant was carrying, and watch the beast tear the slave apart.

Unexpectedly, however, the great beast took a liking to Rima, to the point that it became extremely unruly whenever she was kept away from it for long periods of time.  Ultimately, the halfling was broken in and then sold alongside the tiger as a pair, the two of them both to be kept as exotic pets, bodyguards, and for... other forms of entertainment.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Good points given, I will edit my background so that I was educated by zulkir of illusion (but I stick with transmutation spells, as no source indicates what banned schools Dmitra had chosen).

[Kunoichi]

Actually, depending on what year Warlock wants to run the game in, Dmitra Flass might not be the Zulkir of Illusion yet.  Mythrellan is probably still alive, though Dmitra is still going to be an influential figure and known associate of Szass Tam, which should help tie things together nicely with Ruby also wanting to have Gehennora back Tam's faction. ^^

[Zaer Darkwail]

Aha, indeed it depends which is my mentor. Benefit of Mythrellar can be that through her I got associated with cult of Shar (or learning how use shadow weave).

I edited the story so that Rhaza (and Gehennora) are from mulan nobles who had got into bad times and house being in decline because several generations no magic gifted child had been born there.

[Warlock]

Are there any classes and things strictly off-limits?  I hadn't noticed anything like that...

I'm fiddling around with some ideas and knowing if there are any restrictions may help  :D

Anything that allows me to retain my sanity, can't have me reciting prayers to Cthulhu before we've even started. Do however keep in mind the larger cultural context of Thay and it's power structure, a human wizard is allowed full social mobility while a non-human attempting a power-play would result in harsh retribution and eventual disintegration, Thay is not open-minded. So if you can justify the mechanics and build, then go ahead.
--------------------

Kunoichi: Ah, that case I would want keep my cohort instead. My bad misreading the feat then. But I do also like having +2 bonus to my four skills for having apprentice, so can I keep the bonuses even if my apprentice graduated and became my cohort? If I do continue give her lessons 8 hours per day the bonuses would stay right?

Anyways here comes my char in below. According the DMG II regarding how high level my mentor is, he is 10th level (or 11th if assume I was LE when I started studies as apprentice but later moved to neutral evil and it does not affect mentor's level after taking the feat).

I decided my mentor (when I was apprentice) is Samas Kul, zulkir of transmutation. Considering he is 15th level I assume it's okay so long he does not give me 6th level or higher spells copied for free from his spellbook. Now so far as I understand the apprentice feat for wizards it means I can copy higher level spells from mentor's spellbook instead just getting spells which are appropriate for my level. So example in 2th level I could copy from master's book a 4th level spell and so forth.

Anyways only big stuff is scroll of time stop which I purchased with my gold to copy that spell on my spellbook. Also I wonder are Dead Levels article stuff okay? If so, RubySlippers can also add animated writing as class feature from her wizard levels :). Anyways RubySlippers did not write any family background, childhood, relatives etc so I went creative with my char background. If RubySlippers find something offensive in there I can edit it; either change or remove it entirely.

I could see that being incorporated into the Leadership feat, it requires an extra level of dedicated time that could be expended elsewhere. However remember that the Cohort/Apprentice graduates at 5th level, no-longer needing the 8 hours/day to maintain the bonuses, which if you have no bonus or penalties to Leadership would be at level 8. I would however require that one of the Cohort's feats are still Apprentice, naturally.

Flass works fine, you'd've been studying before her time as Zulkir and coincides nicely with the theme of Ssazzy Tammie supporter that RubySlippers is going for, Flass being a former support and now working against him (Many possibilities I can use here). Keep the 6th level spells to a handful with increasing number as you go down spell-levels and I don't see any particular problem.

Can't really object to you having a Time stop scroll .The dead-level article is good, indeed anything that closes the gap between spellcasters and non-spellcasters are good in my eyes, it also have a flavor component I enjoy.
--------------------

I have a feat, its easy I invest in a market say 1000gp and every month there is a 50/50 chance of I earn 25% of that back ,indefinitely, until I remove the money and can't lose normally unless said market is destroyed. Say I invest in the nearest city in the grain market and a dragon eats it I lose the money. I see no reason to do all that other stuff and she is not trained in that sort of business she focused on investing. And I can do this for anyone say Ssazz Tam gives her 100,000go there is  50/50 chance that will make money with no loss indefinitely. Minus a small fee per month she can rake in tons of gold and never really have to do much.

I'm not using a ton of rules to run a tavern that is for peasants she is a Red Wizard she is above mundane work.  ;D

Not familiar with feat, which Pathfinder sourcebook did you find it in? The feat is fairly straight forward, with you seeing a 12.5% profit margin after the initial capital have been covered after about 8 months. It has this hands-off approach that I really dislike....

I would suggest something like the following:
3d6-8% Profit each month (-5% to 10%)
Modifiers to the number are handled through both random events (a la DMG II),RP and Skill Checks, with an opportunity to gain both temporary and permanent bonuses and penalties.
A temporary might be clearing the road of bandits. A permanent might be gaining the service of a competent barkeep
There's a hardcap on what you can invest in a single business since there's only so much profit you can make in relation to the available population and their buying power (more people=more profit). Could maybe do some funky things with diminishing returns also and not tell you about it.....If the idea sounds good.

I could see the relevant skills being ''Profession (Capitalist Swine)'' and ''Appraise'' xD

Would a system like this work for you? The growth is on average much smaller and would require some more work but can in return reach higher numbers.
--------------------

Actually, depending on what year Warlock wants to run the game in, Dmitra Flass might not be the Zulkir of Illusion yet.  Mythrellan is probably still alive, though Dmitra is still going to be an influential figure and known associate of Szass Tam, which should help tie things together nicely with Ruby also wanting to have Gehennora back Tam's faction. ^^

Starting around somewhere 1375 could be good and I can adopt the political struggles, letting you the players, have an effect on it after the inital ''purge'' of Zulkirs. Also mentioned earlier is that Flass is against Szass Tam (after being pro-Tam) and could offer some opportunities in the form of potential distrust, double agent and what-have-you.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Ok, studied under Flass before she hit being Zulkir (and I am pro-follower of Szam Taim idealism). I may take later on leadership feat (after 10th level) so my first apprentice (cleric of shar) becomes my actual cohort. My leadership score would be base 9 if not count any modifiers or such. But overall the mentor bonuses are because 'spend time teaching apprentice you refresh your own skills' sort approach. So perhaps 8 hours 'extra studies' per day keep me having the bonuses even without apprentice.

Now, does scroll get spend when you copy spells from them? I do not remember what the ruling was with them. Anyways bought time stop scroll so I could copy it as past event onto my spellbook. I have only three 6th level transmute spells so not biggy. Just polymorph in 4th level and telekinesis in 5th (if wonder lack of flying, there are scrolls of teleport or magical transports like flying carpets around or such. Plus my guy has motion sickness as flaw so he will hurl over you if he flies around).

Running Business for RubySlippers (quick DMG II run down): The rules in DMG II are quite easy; it assumes you take 10 on relevant skill check with your main skill and add modifiers to it based on do you have 5 or 10 in secondary skills supporting the business. Then check do you spend less than 8 hours per week working in business or not (or do you overwork for +40 hours per week). Also check do you have a feat (like business savy) and do you have assistant doing the assisting roll for you.

Also same formula can allow that you purchase entire business and hire a hireling to do the main business roll and you get cut of the profits.

For your business module, there is actually exchisting rules for it in that DMG II section; Moneylender (or investor other times called).

Primary Skill; Profession [Bookkeeping]
Secondary Skills; Diplomacy and Appraise (when have 5 ranks in both, gives +1 to your profit check roll, 10 in both gives +2 although in pathfinder the skill reqs can be reduced by -3)
Capital: Medium (meaning how much you spend money start/invest business, this cannot be refunded)
Resource: Medium (meaning money used for physical space like building and can be refunded by selling business)
Risk: Medium (just average risks so one roll per month and determines profit margin)

Depending where business is located determines the capital cost where as it costs flat 5,000gp for resources (and needs 5 employees which one can be you or the hireling you get).

Now, building to wilderness is cheapest but it gives you -10 profit rolls as it's disconnected. However building metropolis gives +4 bonus but costs 32,000gp in capital to start it! Either city (16,000gp, +2 profit) or town (8,000gp, +0 profit) are possible choices.

Now profit check is by taking 10 and adding your primary skill mod (plus other mods) atop it. Reaching 20 = no profit (nor no loss). Medium risk business gives profit margin x 20gp. So if you get example 30, you get 200gp profit per month with said business.

Now, if business keeps constantly making profit it slowly grows the profit margin (and events can both permanently and temporally increase or lower it). Also spending extra gp for 'masterwork gear' can improve profit margin but it costs a lot.

So if want run business while doing politics, the above rules have clear way going about it. Perhaps bit more complex than simple feat which gives flat rules how it works, but the feat your using has no risk involved if you invest money wisely (like on major metropolis like Waterdeep or Thaymount which both unlikely face permanent demise), so the GM may want add some risks to it seems.

I am sure the GM (and I) will help guide you how adjust your char to be successful business woman with the DMG II module. Or we can use the one which GM above suggested.

[RubySlippers]

Remember people her brother is the political one, my character as far as she is concerned "made it" in Thayan Society she is a Red Wizard so wants to settle in and at most has her eye on a government appointment maybe doing something respectable but is a former adventurer and came out of it with a jingling pouch, some magic items and her body and mind intact. - her public position - But remember in game terms she is a business version of a Master Alchemist or Master Craftsman the best that Waukeen could have trained to return to Thay.

And what no risk we have a decent plot of farmland, she can't even use it without a village there. So her first goal is to attract free Thayans to farm the land and provide services I'm thinking a sharecropping system slaves are generally more trouble than they are worth, set up an area for a village and two churches one to Shar and one to Waukeen and invite in adventurers to base there. I have ways around the laws requiring triple pricing to foreigners that might work.

[Warlock]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/master-of-the-ledger

Arghhh math makes my brain hurt. Feat put in money, every month in game flip a coin (1d2) on a heads she makes money, tails doesn't. Can send an agent to collect she gets half or can fetch the money herself. SIMPLE! I like simple.

And can invest for others they give me money and I make them money over a year.

I understand the appeal of its simplicity aspect, my fears are however gains in relation to the amount of time put in. Over 12 months you gain on average 150% of the initial investment, that's a lot. It being a binary 1: Gain money 2: Do not gain money choice also rubs me the wrong way.

I hoped to fix this with my system, adopt the modifier aspect and reduce the numerical values by making it percentage based, making the numbers less of a headache while still having some player influence on how much you gain every month.

But focusing on the feat, I'd rework it like this:
Keep the give money, get money aspect and get ride of the chance based system and instead give a 1d20-5% of return investment every month. The system is still skewed in favor of you but can have som bad spells.

[RubySlippers]

I was just kidding to some degree.

My issue is being out in the middle of nowhere it makes her useless until a community aka a Market even small is formed. Would her brother let her handle the plans for the land with his input some will seem radical by Thayan standards?

EDIT:

I had a simple solution why not do this base it off of a craft or profession only you get the modifiers for the feat they largely fit, and your really good at what you do getting the craft or profession roll not halved. I can make her profession something like Land Manager she would be trained to best abuse the land granted for a profit she taking her income from her work, assuming its a lot more to he family as in her brother.

If I roll a ten it would be under this 27 gold a week, with a ten day system it could be more complicated we could modify it up 30% or something with three rolls a month. It would make sense and well she would be good at exploiting what they have. And adding or subtracting on the roll is easy enough to do a well developed property could give a nice bonus.

[Kunoichi]

Ok, studied under Flass before she hit being Zulkir (and I am pro-follower of Szam Taim idealism). I may take later on leadership feat (after 10th level) so my first apprentice (cleric of shar) becomes my actual cohort. My leadership score would be base 9 if not count any modifiers or such. But overall the mentor bonuses are because 'spend time teaching apprentice you refresh your own skills' sort approach. So perhaps 8 hours 'extra studies' per day keep me having the bonuses even without apprentice.

So... you're taking Mentor now and Leadership later (because you don't get the bonuses for being a mentor without spending a feat on them) even though the GM has said that you can get the mentor bonuses by just taking the Leadership feat?

I guess you must really need that 7th-level feat slot for something else. ^^;

[RubySlippers]

My character, the younger sister, went to school in Waterdeep and converted to the faith of Waukeen devoting her time at studying business and magic an adventurer for a time and was with the Company of the Flaming Fist mercenaries for a time. Once able to she joined the Red Wizards largely "making it" in Thay and is settling into her profession whichever that is. She is largely apolitical favoring trade and making an income while promoting the faith of Waukeen in Thay.

If you like my idea above for her feat, she would oversee the family estate given to them making it as profitable as possible, if given a proper free hand, working hard at it. And using her foreign experience to full effect in dealing with adventurers and foreigners. To her the best way to make money is keep the monsters and humanoids in the mountains occupied with bands of adventurers and for support get a cut of the action.

If I recall Thayan businesses cannot charge Thayan rates but if say they have an Adventurer's Station and foreigners supply it the goods can be at costs lower say a version of an enclave, in reverse, with a fee to join say 10% of the treasures they recover or something it should get around that law if Thayan's don't do anything with it. I could ask the Church of Waukeen to set it up for a cut of the action as the taxes and local fees. She is LN she won't break the law but that should get around it. And a sharecropping system for the farmland and some land for a village we could do quite well to start.

[Snake]

Man it sucks when you wan to play but have no char concept for it.

What is already accepted here?

[RubySlippers]

Two Red Wizards one political serving Shar and one not but focusing on a way to make money which is being worked out worshipping Waukeen. I might shift to Master Craftsman and do something else though. I've decided to splash in some levels of Clerical replacing Paragon and will redo my skills though so will do that today.

One Halfling slave with a fighting beast she rides.

One cleric of Shar.

[Snake]

Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

[Re Z L]

Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

I was kind of toying around with an Assassin as well (how I'm going to go about it I'm not sure yet...) but the character was going to be running something of a hidden-in-plain-sight assassin's guild (through a brothel maybe).  We could work both characters together if you like.

[Warlock]

Man it sucks when you wan to play but have no char concept for it.

What is already accepted here?

Two Red Wizards, a halfing tiger rider and potentially an Illithid-like psion are the characters that have been presented.

My character, the younger sister, went to school in Waterdeep and converted to the faith of Waukeen devoting her time at studying business and magic an adventurer for a time and was with the Company of the Flaming Fist mercenaries for a time. Once able to she joined the Red Wizards largely "making it" in Thay and is settling into her profession whichever that is. She is largely apolitical favoring trade and making an income while promoting the faith of Waukeen in Thay.

If you like my idea above for her feat, she would oversee the family estate given to them making it as profitable as possible, if given a proper free hand, working hard at it. And using her foreign experience to full effect in dealing with adventurers and foreigners. To her the best way to make money is keep the monsters and humanoids in the mountains occupied with bands of adventurers and for support get a cut of the action.

If I recall Thayan businesses cannot charge Thayan rates but if say they have an Adventurer's Station and foreigners supply it the goods can be at costs lower say a version of an enclave, in reverse, with a fee to join say 10% of the treasures they recover or something it should get around that law if Thayan's don't do anything with it. I could ask the Church of Waukeen to set it up for a cut of the action as the taxes and local fees. She is LN she won't break the law but that should get around it. And a sharecropping system for the farmland and some land for a village we could do quite well to start.

''Within'' Waterdeep is a Thayan Enclave, your character might have some old ties to this organization such as a father or mother or an uncle and give her the blood-ties required to join the Red Wizards. As presented I like it. And as discussed earlier (I'll let the rest of you know more details soon) you'll start with a plot of farmland and a small mansion, so you'll have a place to start of your ventures.

Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

If it piques your interest, go ahead. 8th level, Pathfinder skill system, feats every odd-level.

[Snake]

Monk - Martial Artist Variant ;3 possibly with a multiclass into souknife-deadly fist for a pop of double unarmed damage :3

Uh btw: where the hell is the character generation specifics?

All I know is lvl 8 with pathfinder skill sets. Anything else?

[Kunoichi]

...Might I recommend Unarmed Swordsage in place of Monk? ^^; Monk is generally not considered one of the better-designed classes.

[RubySlippers]

It depends on what my character does and how much land we have a small area of farmland in THAY is likely big by say other nations standards.

If I choose a professional in some area of work, suited to her station, it will be different from say doing investing like I planned.

[Snake]

Hmm I'll look into it but the question stands unfortunately.

[Kunoichi]

Well it's a D&D 3.5 game, but one using Pathfinder's skill consolidations and feat progression (meaning one feat every odd level), and you can make use of Pathfinder feats if there are any you want to use.

Dragon Magazine content is also allowed, provided it doesn't break the game.

[Snake]

Ah ok so it's a mix of 3.5 and pathfinder!

That works better then Could we use a pathfinder class though? *as some are better organized than 3.5e, like soul knife for example^*

[Warlock]

Ah ok so it's a mix of 3.5 and pathfinder!

That works better then Could we use a pathfinder class though? *as some are better organized than 3.5e, like soul knife for example^*

Honestly, I'd rather not, there's enough bloat already before me having to keep track of both 3.5 and Pathfinder classes. Try to keep yourself to skills, traits and backward compatible feats in Pathfinder. There's always arcane gish classes and builds available or the Psychic Warriors as a form of substitute.

[Snake]

Alrighty ;3 Ill stick with that.

[Zaer Darkwail]

So... you're taking Mentor now and Leadership later (because you don't get the bonuses for being a mentor without spending a feat on them) even though the GM has said that you can get the mentor bonuses by just taking the Leadership feat?

I guess you must really need that 7th-level feat slot for something else. ^^;

:o

So, I can take apprentice in first level (and get UMD as class skill and get freebie copying of my spells), then it evolves to mentor (I get Shar priestess as apprentice), then as my apprentice graduates I take leadership feat, get apprentice as cohort, get followers and I keep my mentor perks so long I spend 8 hours a day teaching/studying? Is that correct?

Would a lesser aasimar with an align toward LE work?

Works in Thay as an assasin/dancer-cover :3

Thought about going for Cloaked Dancer? Well, monk or soulknife would definitely able to be effective in said PrC (or even dip level as assassin as PrC progresses arcane spellcasting some reason). Or a bard who is able hide his weapons or conjure one on fly (assassin class gives spells to hide weapons and bard has one 2th level spell able conjure light weapon as swift action).

Plus pretty pics;

http://www.dandwiki.com/w/images/thumb/6/68/Dancer_FFT_for_DanD.jpg/180px-Dancer_FFT_for_DanD.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HXo8q8ICeRw/T1PFwHkSnZI/AAAAAAAAA18/EJ8dW5PuwFs/s1600/ivanja.jpg

Or you could be something truly exotic; drow bard (drow bards get ACF where they replace bardic knowlegde for poison use, but then again drows of the underdark got 'master of poisons' feat which allows use poisons safely and apply them as swift action on your weapon. Very handy for non-PrC assassin).

RubySlippers: Yeah, math can hurt your head. So that's why I suggested either I or GM could work the numbers for you and just tell where invest skill points and give feat recommendation for running business in Thay :P. It's just that your feat is....too easy for GM's liking. When speaking of doing profit other ways than just looting dungeons it needs be bit trickier but not tricky as doing dungeon exploring.

Although politics in Thay makes it tricky. But the feat gives no window nor any flaw what fellow thayan can exploit besides blowing up the entire market/city where you had invested money (we got damn rivals!).

Anyways if you studied in Waterdeep and revere Waukeen (note; thayans are universally not that religious lot), then Rhaza considers his sister as 'odd duck' compared to other thayans with lack of ambition and focusing on running smooth trading....with no ulterior motives whatsoever. But he would let her run the mansion what party got and also farmlands as she got more 'business' mind set and skills for it than him (he is scribe professionally speaking and quite damn fine one too; he could forge Szas Taim's signature if he would just get sample of it or write thesis in netherese language about finer points of arcane).

Also I am curious where exactly our mansion and farmlands (which we are landowners of) are located? Nearest big town/city? Or is it near to metropolis even so it could be valid for my sister invest on metropolis market and go once every month collect money from there from invested businesses?

Honestly, I'd rather not, there's enough bloat already before me having to keep track of both 3.5 and Pathfinder classes. Try to keep yourself to skills, traits and backward compatible feats in Pathfinder. There's always arcane gish classes and builds available or the Psychic Warriors as a form of substitute.

Ok, for Snake there is psychic warrior variant which works like soulknife; in first level you need to pick call weapon power and 2th level you sacrifice a bonus feat to conjure your 'psychic weapon' which upgrades over your levels like soulknife weapon does. It's far superior compared to soulknife alone but you loose in stealth skills and skill points (but those can be dealt with just picking cosmopolitant to get stealth as class skill or take human paragon level and then take disguise ranks and enter assassin, take psychic one and then enter cloaked dancer).

Or play bard as I suggested as bard makes fine cloaked dancer also as they can conjure with one spell a magical rapier as swift action. Or able hide/disguise light weapons on their outfits or inside hair :P.

[Warlock]

I'll take most of what I sent to RubySlippers earlier, I wanted to check with her first since it's her initial idea.

I've looked at some different things:

• Since there's been some discussion and general agreement on wanting a political element, the place we're using to kick-off the campaign should be able project some sort of power and having the players either in the position to use it, or being able to take it.
• The projected power should have the possibility to be both enhanced or expanded.
• It needs to offer the possibility and closeness of different types of encounters and environs.
• It should also include either hidden or unpredictable elements.

Northern Pyrador felt to fit these criteria, offering a mix for the possibility to play both the political game between and inside thearchs and nation against nation (in the form of the conflict between Gauros and Rashemen) and giving opportunity for dungeon-delving. The situation within Pyrador is unique within Thay since it actually allows and encourages foreign adventurers, I could easily imagine them being used as plausible deniability in political plots. Looking at the Tharchion of Pyrador, Nymia, she've made herself a fortune manipulating trade and it doesn't seem to be reflected within Pyrador as a whole, a possible point of contention and conflict. Having the players being close to Gauros could draw the attention of its warmongering leaders, offering gifts and favors in return for military or magical might against Rashemen or daggers and poison should they be denied. Being close to the Tyrtauros city of Surag also pulls the character's loyalties, the tharch being a trading hub of Thay. To the south lies Mulhorand, who have Thayan slaves (called Tethans) and one could imagine that raids are conducted on both sides similar to the Garuos-Rashemen situation. In the east lies Sunrise Mountains, filled with previously mentioned adventurers and unexplored ancient ruins, still hiding their secrets. The Golden Way also draws attention, laying beyond the mountains and if a pathway could be found it would bring immense power and wealth. In the Underdark lies the Duergar city of Fraaszummdin and parts of Undrek'Thoz a confederation of Drow cities.

I've considered having you start with rulership over a smallish piece of average farmland, with a larger structure as a primary base of operation, then giving you free reigns to expand or as the campaign continues, with me throwing plot hooks at you (hopefully managing to tie them together into something larger) and trying to indulge in the groups plans of world-domination.

At best I've really scratched the surface at what is possible, but I hope that it gives a general idea of the forces that acts within Thay (I've most likely forgotten many and haven't touched too much on all the internal politics).

[Zaer Darkwail]

That looks very promising Warlock, very well thought :=)

So we got farmland and by sister's insistence we use free thayans instead slaves (groan about expense doing so) while my char deals with the politics and dealings with local figure heads so they do not end up knife in their guts or so.

Now Warlock, can you confirm what I asked above from Kunoichi? So does my feat taken in 1st level evolve this; Apprentice > Mentor > Leadership? Keep skill bonus benefits of the mentor feat so long I keep teaching someone or do daily 8 hour study in library (our main building must have a library).

[Kunoichi]

Now Warlock, can you confirm what I asked above from Kunoichi? So does my feat taken in 1st level evolve this; Apprentice > Mentor > Leadership? Keep skill bonus benefits of the mentor feat so long I keep teaching someone or do daily 8 hour study in library (our main building must have a library).

I wasn't saying that the Mentor feat evolves into Leadership, merely that you can use it to still gain the Mentor bonuses from your cohort. ^^; I was also recommending that you take it for your 7th-level feat slot, because starting play with a fully-fledged cohort is going to be much more useful than starting play with some un-graduated apprentice.


Ah, and Snake, this page has the Psychic Warrior ACF that Zaer was talking about.  It's the one called 'Soulbound Weapon'.  I'd still go for the Unarmed Swordsage if it were me, but it certainly makes for a better Soulknife than the actual D&D 3.5 Soulknife.

Edit: Although, if you'd like to combine unarmed combat with psychic powers, there are some interesting options there.  Be a Psychic Warrior, take one level of Monk at third and select Monastic Training as your bonus feat, then take Tashalatora for your 3rd level feat and continue on with Psychic Warrior.  It's a very solid build with some nice flavor to it.

[Warlock]

That looks very promising Warlock, very well thought :=)

So we got farmland and by sister's insistence we use free thayans instead slaves (groan about expense doing so) while my char deals with the politics and dealings with local figure heads so they do not end up knife in their guts or so.

Now Warlock, can you confirm what I asked above from Kunoichi? So does my feat taken in 1st level evolve this; Apprentice > Mentor > Leadership? Keep skill bonus benefits of the mentor feat so long I keep teaching someone or do daily 8 hour study in library (our main building must have a library).

Yes. There's still the time costs involved in needing to study/teach that is a fair trade for the benefits it proveds and I'd say that it's an optional use of Leadership for anyone else that also liked to go that route.

Edit:

I wasn't saying that the Mentor feat evolves into Leadership, merely that you can use it to still gain the Mentor bonuses from your cohort. ^^; I was also recommending that you take it for your 7th-level feat slot, because starting play with a fully-fledged cohort is going to be much more useful than starting play with some un-graduated apprentice.


Ah, and Snake, this page has the Psychic Warrior ACF that Zaer was talking about.  It's the one called 'Soulbound Weapon'.  I'd still go for the Unarmed Swordsage if it were me, but it certainly makes for a better Soulknife than the actual D&D 3.5 Soulknife.

Thank you for finding it, I tried to look for it but I just couldn't find it. *Bows deeply*

[Kunoichi]

Edit:
Thank you for finding it, I tried to look for it but I just couldn't find it. *Bows deeply*

No problem. ^^ I've actually bookmarked this page, simply because it's got a useful index to all of the D&D 3.5 web content that Wizards of the Coast put out.

Edit: By the way, would purchasing a single +1 Eager Warning Shuriken be a bit too cheesy for this game, or should we expect to see Shuriken with useful enchantments placed upon them as popular fashion accessories among the more canny members of Thayan nobility? :P

[RubySlippers]

Okay I got it I need to make her a proper professional, political and something that could work anywhere the Zulkiers aka the Government would find work for her. I decided to be - drumroll please -

An Advocate of Law attached with Favored of the Guild in Thayan Government.

In simple terms she works for the government as a largely honest and likely by the books official but that means if parties in power need a legal way to do something she can find a way, if she is appointed to judge a case she will be honest and just in her ruling even if that means being rather mean but common Thayan or Zulkier she will not judge unjustly (but odds are the laws favor the latter) and she can be counted on to put the government first.

Her brothers plans being quite normal is not on her radar.

Her income will be a professional government salary and special fees for her work (mostly shared with the government). She won't take bribes by the way she is LN but if the commoner cannot afford her doing additional legal research and the Red Wizard can the laws will likely favor the one who pays for the time to find loopholes, precedents and such. Those are not bribes those are added fees.  >:)

Sound good?

Oh some tasks she will also do is contracts, government cases of all kinds and making sure new regulations and laws favor the government then Thay in general. I expect her to be busy.

[Kunoichi]

Ah, so she'd be the Red Wizard equivalent of a lawyer/judge/jury?  Given the oddities in the governmental systems of Thay, I could see them using one individual to handle all three roles in their legal cases...

[Warlock]

No problem. ^^ I've actually bookmarked this page, simply because it's got a useful index to all of the D&D 3.5 web content that Wizards of the Coast put out.

Edit: By the way, would purchasing a single +1 Eager Warning Shuriken be a bit too cheesy for this game, or should we expect to see Shuriken with useful enchantments placed upon them as popular fashion accessories among the more canny members of Thayan nobility? :P

That is new to me.....Abuse at your own risk. It's uncanny dodge and an initiative bouns for the price of a single +3 Arrow. I won't stop you using it, still I urge you to reconsider that course of action.
------------------------

Okay I got it I need to make her a proper professional, political and something that could work anywhere the Zulkiers aka the Government would find work for her. I decided to be - drumroll please -

An Advocate of Law attached with Favored of the Guild in Thayan Government.

In simple terms she works for the government as a largely honest and likely by the books official but that means if parties in power need a legal way to do something she can find a way, if she is appointed to judge a case she will be honest and just in her ruling even if that means being rather mean but common Thayan or Zulkier she will not judge unjustly (but odds are the laws favor the latter) and she can be counted on to put the government first.

Me like. :)

Her brothers plans being quite normal is not on her radar.

Ahhh, sibling love.

Her income will be a professional government salary and special fees for her work (mostly shared with the government). She won't take bribes by the way she is LN but if the commoner cannot afford her doing additional legal research and the Red Wizard can the laws will likely favor the one who pays for the time to find loopholes, precedents and such. Those are not bribes those are added fees.  >:) 

A rose by any other name. An impressive work around and staying on the theme of Lawful Neutral but not-quite-almost flirting Evil.

Sound good?

Very much so.

Oh some tasks she will also do is contracts, government cases of all kinds and making sure new regulations and laws favor the government then Thay in general. I expect her to be busy.

I'll try to do some digging in Thay law and see what more I can find on their government structure (There's a nice section in Lords of Darkness that I've just skimmed that contained some interesting parts). I'll do my best to keep you occupied.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Kunoichi: Well, indeed there are perks in proper cohort (and followers). I would assume we get leadership bonus if we recruit thayan followers while being red wizard?

However....the shadow weave is also delicious as it gives freebie skill focus on enchantment, necromancy and illusion which stacks with spell focus and also tattoo focus. Plus +1 CL for those schools as well and my spells overall are bit harder to read/dispel by weave users.

I could take shadow weave later on, but the big point is that if I use Simalcrum with myself (example in 14th level), the 7th bonus feat is useless for the clone as I doubt GM lets it fly I get 'additional' cohorts and followers by creating magical clones of myself (clones which are absolutely loyal to me). Also to let clone participate in circle magic they likely must need able use shadow weave than normal weave if I am shadow weave user. So I do need have shadow weave in 7th level slot one way or another.

Not to mention 9th level I would like save for Arcane Manipulation so I can make 10th level clones which are able convert higher level spell slots for several smaller ones (to do some high level cheating with ritual magic, like have clones which are able cast several 9th level spells on my command).

[Kunoichi]

That is new to me.....Abuse at your own risk. It's uncanny dodge and an initiative bonus for the price of a single +3 Arrow. I won't stop you using it, still I urge you to reconsider that course of action.

It's a highly abusable trick, so if you're urging me to reconsider, then I think I'll just not buy one. ^^;

And with that, my character sheet for Rima is complete.

Kunoichi: Well, indeed there are perks in proper cohort (and followers). I would assume we get leadership bonus if we recruit thayan followers while being red wizard?

However....the shadow weave is also delicious as it gives freebie skill focus on enchantment, necromancy and illusion which stacks with spell focus and also tattoo focus. Plus +1 CL for those schools as well and my spells overall are bit harder to read/dispel by weave users.

I could take shadow weave later on, but the big point is that if I use Simalcrum with myself (example in 14th level), the 7th bonus feat is useless for the clone as I doubt GM lets it fly I get 'additional' cohorts and followers by creating magical clones of myself (clones which are absolutely loyal to me). Also to let clone participate in circle magic they likely must need able use shadow weave than normal weave if I am shadow weave user. So I do need have shadow weave in 7th level slot one way or another.

Not to mention 9th level I would like save for Arcane Manipulation so I can make 10th level clones which are able convert higher level spell slots for several smaller ones (to do some high level cheating with ritual magic, like have clones which are able cast several 9th level spells on my command).

Hmm.  The feat retraining rules in the PHB II might be of some help here.  Essentially, you start play with Leadership in your 7th level slot.  Then, when you hit level 9, you retrain it out for Shadow Weave Magic and bump Leadership up to 9th, and you swap Leadership out again for Arcane Manipulation when you hit 11, taking Leadership as your 11th level feat.

From a flavor perspective, I think it's an approach would fit quite well for a character who's in constant training to better himself and always on the lookout for more personal power. ^^

[Zaer Darkwail]

Pity I had no space for animal growth for your tiger (or other tigers if you continue on as beastmaster). Perhaps UMD skill boosted will help it....maybe.

[RubySlippers]

So need costs how much for a proper library of Thayan Law including precedents, rulings and the codex properly referenced and organized? She needs the right tools.

Oh and her brother can get legal advice free, and again power mongering is legal in Thay if done legally but be mindful its her view even common Thayans have a right to the protection of the law at least from severe abuse and the law largely does protect Red Wizards so its not like they can't be abused legally.

Oh and you can use slave labor, they won't have rights either since they are property but she will expect them to be suitably treated and kept properly fed, housed and clean so get a good healer who can also tend the animals and the slaves. House slaves will be treated better we have to look at them after all and live with them. My character is to nice. (Punishments are fine but for fair reasons.)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, stronghold builder's guide has clear cost how much library costs and how much books (which give skill bonuses) costs.

Landlord feat can be acquired by 10th level char which gives free funding for the stronghold. But none of us are 'that' powerful yet (meaning not 10th level).

So if GM gives us farmland and housing for free, if he would mention gp amount which we get for this I could build the house statically speaking and it includes also buying slaves/hiring personnel (like healer).

[Kunoichi]

Pity I had no space for animal growth for your tiger (or other tigers if you continue on as beastmaster). Perhaps UMD skill boosted will help it....maybe.

Thanks to Otherworldly, Ragnoss is actually a Native Outsider, so I don't think Animal Growth will work on him anymore, anyway. :P The Enchantment school does have one or two nice buffs in it, though, and you can also toss out plenty of debuffs on the enemy.

[Warlock]

And with that, my character sheet for Rima is complete.

There's no ''Use Rope'' it's now part of Escape Artist/Climb/Knowledge (Bondage) so that frees up 8 Skillpoints. xD

[Kunoichi]

There's no ''Use Rope'' it's now part of Escape Artist/Climb/Knowledge (Bondage) so that frees up 8 Skillpoints. xD

Ah, then I suppose it's time to see if we'll be making use of that variant rule from the Book of Erotic Fantasy where Perform (Sexual Techniques) is always considered a class skill for everyone. :P

[Zaer Darkwail]

Thanks to Otherworldly, Ragnoss is actually a Native Outsider, so I don't think Animal Growth will work on him anymore, anyway. :P The Enchantment school does have one or two nice buffs in it, though, and you can also toss out plenty of debuffs on the enemy.

Oh yeah, that. Anyways I do have some nice investiture spells (one gives ability throw three 1d6+str mod dmg spikes as full round action as ranged attack to 60'ft and gives fire resistance, another gives +3 profane bonus to AC and attack rolls and it stacks up +3 each time when standing adjacent to person who has it also, share spell feature with your mount means flat +6 AC and attack rolls and fire resistance :P).

Also Brilliant Blade you likely love with your bow (unless vs constructs and undead). Also indeed enchantment spells got some nice buffs and I got haste picked out (I considered Sakkratas Triple Strike but decided stick on spell which I can do now and lasts more rounds and gives +30'ft speed on mobility and AC bonuses as well).

But mostly as illusionist I am trickery and debuf guy; I do plan get split ray metamagic feat somepoint so split ray on enervation is run >:)

[Kunoichi]

Oh yeah, that. Anyways I do have some nice investiture spells (one gives ability throw three 1d6+str mod dmg spikes as full round action as ranged attack to 60'ft and gives fire resistance, another gives +3 profane bonus to AC and attack rolls and it stacks up +3 each time when standing adjacent to person who has it also, share spell feature with your mount means flat +6 AC and attack rolls and fire resistance :P).

Also Brilliant Blade you likely love with your bow (unless vs constructs and undead). Also indeed enchantment spells got some nice buffs and I got haste picked out (I considered Sakkratas Triple Strike but decided stick on spell which I can do now and lasts more rounds and gives +30'ft speed on mobility and AC bonuses as well).

But mostly as illusionist I am trickery and debuf guy; I do plan get split ray metamagic feat somepoint so split ray on enervation is run >:)

Unfortunately, the Share Spells ability only works for spells I cast myself, so unless the GM decides to be generous and rule that it also works for spells cast on me, you'd have to spend two castings to get those bonuses up.  If the GM does decide to be generous, though, that will certainly be a nice combat tactic.

And I'm afraid Rima doesn't have a bow at the moment.  If we wind up finding a nice one that she can use, I certainly wouldn't object to having her be allowed to keep it, but at present I think that Ragnoss is more than enough of a capable combatant while under her control.  The mounted combat rules are a bit vague and unclear anyway. ^^;

[RubySlippers]

Okay need to work out some things I'm not sure of the cost of her library she needs one so am thinking 5000gp since its limited to Thayan Law, she doesn't rule on Diplomatic matters she would likely just banish the offender from Thay to maintain Diplomatic relations while not accusing the other nation of blame.

Now she needs a symbol of office I'm thinking two things.

1. Am Amulet of the Red Wizards Faction since she represents Thay and the Zulkiers.

2. A Rod of Thayan Justice (no laughs) Used as a Mallet (when overseeing a hearing) and as a Symbol She Acts as an Agent of the Law (can get soldiers and the guards, other Thayans and the such to aid her in her duties when on a case).

Both magical after she wonderous items them up, the rod not a rod proper, just a magical object.

[Kunoichi]

Based on what I'm reading in the Stronghold Builder's Guide, 500 gp would get you a basic library, which would have two separate book lots in it, each one giving you a +2 circumstance bonus to a different subject.  Thayan Law would probably help out with Profession (Lawgiver) checks, or whatever skill winds up being relevant to that profession, and then the other one could be any other skill that books would help you out with.

Alternately, if you do want to spend 5,000 gp on it, there is a sidebar which suggests that you could purchase a more comprehensive set of books for that price that would provide you a +4 circumstance bonus to Thayan Law...

[Re Z L]

Are we planning to use the Concentration skill or do concentration checks like Pathfinder?

[Zaer Darkwail]

Concentration as a skill.

[Re Z L]

Working on it still, but here's the beginning of a lovely Thrallherd  ;D

[RubySlippers]

Based on what I'm reading in the Stronghold Builder's Guide, 500 gp would get you a basic library, which would have two separate book lots in it, each one giving you a +2 circumstance bonus to a different subject.  Thayan Law would probably help out with Profession (Lawgiver) checks, or whatever skill winds up being relevant to that profession, and then the other one could be any other skill that books would help you out with.

Alternately, if you do want to spend 5,000 gp on it, there is a sidebar which suggests that you could purchase a more comprehensive set of books for that price that would provide you a +4 circumstance bonus to Thayan Law...

No need I'll take a Thayan Law books and Arcana to help her two knowledge skills. 500gp. Her brother likely would want books of his own. Its not like Thayan Law is complex Red Wizards tend to win in legal matters unless stupid, or to cheap to pay a fee for a legal evaluation and research of their case and the other party does. When its non-Red Wizards to others it gets more complicated. Non-Thayans barring a diplomatic protection lose every time to any citizen of Thay without a major fee to the court under the law of the Tharch triple the normal one. Even then the non-Thayan still may lose.

But she worships Kossuth so she has to give pain to Red Wizards to from time to time, to test them or show even the mighty is not above the law. Within reason.  Like family. >:)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Add in also factor that red wizards are all arcane casters some sort; so they can weasel out from legalistic just using spells to warp facts. Like cast enchantment spell to make person 'forget' he saw red wizard murdering someone in broad daylight. Or use magic to make person they want killed to do crime under a compulsion etc.

So you need pretty solid spellcraft and arcane lore to know all potential loopholes and bullshits able pulled out besides your profession skill if you plan play as lawyer in Thay :P. Only reason why you may not be killed is that your under zulkirs protection and if you die in anyway, it's heavily investigated and punished severely anyone involved (including Kossuth church doing divinations).

[Ironwolf85]

this is going to take longer than I'd like due to family and life.

[RubySlippers]

Add in also factor that red wizards are all arcane casters some sort; so they can weasel out from legalistic just using spells to warp facts. Like cast enchantment spell to make person 'forget' he saw red wizard murdering someone in broad daylight. Or use magic to make person they want killed to do crime under a compulsion etc.

So you need pretty solid spellcraft and arcane lore to know all potential loopholes and bullshits able pulled out besides your profession skill if you plan play as lawyer in Thay :P. Only reason why you may not be killed is that your under zulkirs protection and if you die in anyway, it's heavily investigated and punished severely anyone involved (including Kossuth church doing divinations).

Like I stated a Red Wizard to stupid to cover will deserve what she does, no one wants an idiot around but even she wouldn't kill one. Her main work will be between non-Red Wizards where magic is not likely to be an issue in many cases. And finding legal ways around the law for parties that ask her to do that for a generous fee and can pay for investigation by a third party say magic was used to make someone kill another and it can be traced to a Red Wizard again she may have to act. But that takes money and well Red Wizards screwing Red Wizards is usually outside the law - politics is politics. But if a commoner dies as a pawn she will likely have to fine the Red Wizard for a loss of income to the family losing the commoner if discovered. IF the key word.

[Kunoichi]

No need I'll take a Thayan Law books and Arcana to help her two knowledge skills. 500gp. Her brother likely would want books of his own. Its not like Thayan Law is complex Red Wizards tend to win in legal matters unless stupid, or to cheap to pay a fee for a legal evaluation and research of their case and the other party does. When its non-Red Wizards to others it gets more complicated. Non-Thayans barring a diplomatic protection lose every time to any citizen of Thay without a major fee to the court under the law of the Tharch triple the normal one. Even then the non-Thayan still may lose.

But she worships Kossuth so she has to give pain to Red Wizards to from time to time, to test them or show even the mighty is not above the law. Within reason.  Like family. >:)

Actually, reading over the rules a little more closely, I realized that I screwed up. ^^; Paying 500 gp merely gets you the space to store two lots of books and somewhere to look through them comfortably for research purposes.  Presumably, you'd already get at least storage space for free in the house provided by the GM, so you wouldn't pay that.  Each lot of books costs 1,000 gp for a circumstance bonus to a single skill, though, which is still cheaper than the 5,000 you were planning to spend.

And if giving other people pain is what you want to do, you should totally worship Loviatar instead. :P She's Lawful Evil, you could easily still keep your alignment and everything.

this is going to take longer than I'd like due to family and life.

Ah, that's too bad to hear.  I was going to suggest that your Illithid and Re Z L's Thrallherd could totally run some sort of secret cult together.  You're both psions, after all.

[RubySlippers]

No Kossuth is fine a good and solid Thayan deity that is well regarded. 2000gp works one for the Thayan Law books and codex likely a lot of it favoring for some reason Red Wizards and Arcana will do.

[Kunoichi]

Working on it still, but here's the beginning of a lovely Thrallherd  ;D

By the way, we're still using 3.5's system for skill ranks, so the maximum you can put in any of your skills is 11, rather than 8.

[Zaer Darkwail]

By the way, we're still using 3.5's system for skill ranks, so the maximum you can put in any of your skills is 11, rather than 8.

Oh? We do? Did not know :P. But then again no need change anything as I still qualify for my PrC's in present ranks. But does it mean we also get x4 skill points in first level? If so, I have lots points to spend at least  XD

[Kunoichi]

Yep, x4 points at first level.  Of course, those usually wind up going into skills you've already invested in so you can have them at maximum rank...

[Zaer Darkwail]

Which three important are spellcraft, concentration and K:arcana and they were 8 ranks each already.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Wait....if we use normal skill rank system then we do not get +3 bonus to skill which is class skill and have invested rank on it right?

[Kunoichi]

Correct.  That's a Pathfinder thing, and we're only using Pathfinder's skill consolidations, not the full Pathfinder skill system.

[Zaer Darkwail]

*facepalms*

Need fix my sheet's skill section then :P

[RubySlippers]

Its not hard to do.  ;D

[Re Z L]

*facepalms*

Need fix my sheet's skill section then :P

Yup!  Me too  ;D

[RubySlippers]

Magic Items I need to work on:

Amulet - Shield Spell

Cup - ???

Gloves - ???

Sandals - Expeditious Retreat

Belt - Armor Spell

Using spells she knows to imbue them, largely. I plan to limit their use to her, a deduction should make them noticeably cheaper in cost since they would be far less marketable. If I recall its -30% of the cost, her scepter can but it has a security spell on it.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Edited my sheet. So ready to go in my part.

[Snake]

I'm still stuck on what tomake .T_T  the drow cloaked dancer sounds interesting though but it'd be better if could be a lvl 10 char and buy off the LA to be lvl 8

[Warlock]

I've begun writing the introductory post, which will also introduce the first plot arc along with giving some general exposition on Thay and their current political situation. I should hopefully have everything done...well playable...as your characters become completed.

[Zaer Darkwail]

You can be lesser drow Snake, it has no LA at all and you count still drow racially. You just lack SR mostly and the spell-alike abilities. FR campaign book and players guide to faerun also have details for non-LA drow (and drows of the underdark also maybe).

[RubySlippers]

I'm working on it, magic items will be a challenge, that's all. She has little need for much coin on hand and the like. Mostly I need items her office and some things to make her life easier, one clerk and library of books. I don't need a horse with Phantom Steed as a spell. Oh do I need to take Riding to ride it?

[Kunoichi]

You don't really need to use the Ride skill at all unless you plan to ride around in combat.  As for items, have you picked up a Headband of Intellect and a Cloak or Vest of Resistance yet?  Those would be fairly wise to invest in.

[Re Z L]

You don't really need to use the Ride skill at all unless you plan to ride around in combat.  As for items, have you picked up a Headband of Intellect and a Cloak or Vest of Resistance yet?  Those would be fairly wise to invest in.

Resistances?  Pfft, you guys don't need will saves...  just let me take care of that for you   >:)

[RubySlippers]

You don't really need to use the Ride skill at all unless you plan to ride around in combat.  As for items, have you picked up a Headband of Intellect and a Cloak or Vest of Resistance yet?  Those would be fairly wise to invest in.

Not when she can make her own stuff, and its cheaper.

[Kunoichi]

If you have the Craft Wondrous Items feat and access to the necessary spells, you can easily craft your own Headband of Intellect and Cloak or Vest of Resistance. ^^; Or are you saying you'll be doing just that after the game starts?

[Zaer Darkwail]

I would advice abusing craft wondrous item in start of the game :P. To get some items cheaper.

Anyways no intelligence item nor even int boosting spell from transmute :P. But my save DC's are sky high anyways so no problem in that sense. I use Resistance (Greater) to get +3 to all saves for 24 hours.

[Kunoichi]

Not going to lie, I myself am planning to loot plenty of stat-boosters and other such common items off of any enemies we end up facing who have them. :P

[Ironwolf85]

Okay crap over time to get back to making a sheet!

[Re Z L]

Nephis Sepret
The Serpent's Tongue
Psion (Telepath) 5/Thrallherd 3

Appearance:
Black hair, black eyes, and dark caramel skin give her an exotic beauty.  The only hair she has is that which grows on her head, even her eyebrows having been removed in favor of slender tattoos.  Slender, with well defined muscles and

Personality:
Dark, secretive, and conniving.  She is every bit the snake hidden out of sight until you've already come too close to get away.  Sensual and decadent, she indulges in any pleasure that may cross her path, which gives her the appearance of someone less willful than she really is.  She believes herself a goddess and encourages her thralls to worship her as if she were.  The only thing that matters to her is her and her goals.  Despite this her outward demeanor is always pleasant, if overly friendly, toying with the feelings of those around her to encourage their lusts (preferably lust for her, but any form of lust is sufficient).

Biography:


Morality:
Nothing is more important than what she wants and she'll exploit anything along the way to get it.

Sexual Background/Preferences:
Bisexual.  Skilled seductress, and experienced paramour.  She runs a thinly-veiled brothel for the more elite of the city, utilizing her willing devotees as her own harem of skilled courtesans and escorts.

Ons & Offs:
No bathroom-play of course and some other weird stuff, but beyond that I'm pretty open...  If you're wondering just check with me first.  Any extra details can be found in my own ons/offs.  ;D

Quote:
"Shh, just relax and let me take the lead..."

Thrall

"The Crow" Myrskyla
The Serpent's Fang
Warblade 7

WIP

[RubySlippers]

A brothel in Thay? Wouldn't that be pointless the elite can bring in pleasure slaves of any kind. But you can bring in foreigners and other freemen types I suppose.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Nice pic there ;). I assume you make your thayan gladiator based on a unarmed combatant then? Use improved unarmed strike + weapon focus to qualify for it as human?

Anyways what comes to brothels; indeed there is bit redundancy in having one in Thay where anyone could just buy pleasure slave for life. But perhaps when we speak of brothel we speak of 'rent pleasure slaves' for non-elite thayans who cannot afford full price of skilled and beautiful pleasure slave. Or perhaps elite even if there is some exotic flavor he wants to try and may then offer 'buy' the slave off from Nephis....and thus cleverly she gets her 'thralls' spread to elite as her loyal spies.

[Kunoichi]

Nephis herself probably acts as a major draw for the Thayan elite. ;) Plus, I'd imagine the more magically-gifted believers can do all sorts of interesting things with illusion and transmutation magic that the average pleasure slave would be legally prohibited from being able to do...

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, and how she would be associated with me and RubySlippers then? As we both live on farmland in a mansion I think.

[Kunoichi]

Well, given the backstory you posted, we know your character's been to at least one orgy during the course of his life.  Perhaps Nephis is a longtime friend and secret partner in your character's schemes?

[Re Z L]

Nephis has plenty of political aspirations  ;D

[Kunoichi]

It might also be a good idea to say that she and the Ankhemon siblings have something of a genuine friendship with one another, if we want to avoid inter-party conflict.  It could lend some rather interesting twists to their interactions beyond the usual scheming and jockeying for power common among ambitious mid-level individuals in Thay...

[RubySlippers]

My character is a government servant, she puts Thay first, since power mongering among Red Wizards is political she has no issue with her brothers plans. And she would not mind seeing the Psion take over as Tharchion of the tharch they are in. If more stable than the one they have since that would be better for Thay.

I am looking for a spouse Nephis would be suitable, and there is no shame marrying a government official its stable work and respectable.

Put it this way though she is likely the one Thayan you don't have to worry about.  ;D

[Zaer Darkwail]

I am fine with idea that my char got to know her through one orgies she ran  ;D

Then over time she met Rhaza's sister and builded friendship, as after all we were apprentices and we likely got send to errand or two and she tagged along as a ally (and found it exciting). Now we are point where both Rhaza and his sister are walking on shallow waters in thayan politics (wet to them since entering apprenticeship).

[Kunoichi]

Looks like that's all worked out, then. ^^ Now to just figure out where Ironwolf's Mind Flayer comes in...

[Warlock]

Since it's easy to forget keep in mind that we're using the Pathfinder consolidated skill system. Spot and Listen become Perception, etc. Feats are also gained every uneven level instead of normal 3.5 progression.  ^^

Looks like that's all worked out, then. ^^ Now to just figure out where Ironwolf's Mind Flayer comes in...

Culinary connoisseur that have traveled far and wide in search of tasty brains, it's only natural then that she would settle herself in Thay.

[Snake]

I forgot about the feat progression >.<

[Re Z L]

My character is a government servant, she puts Thay first, since power mongering among Red Wizards is political she has no issue with her brothers plans. And she would not mind seeing the Psion take over as Tharchion of the tharch they are in. If more stable than the one they have since that would be better for Thay.

I am looking for a spouse Nephis would be suitable, and there is no shame marrying a government official its stable work and respectable.

Put it this way though she is likely the one Thayan you don't have to worry about.  ;D

They could have been introduced by her brother and gotten married after that  ;D  She can keep some of her believers at the farm as well to be in charge of the farming (She has 15 level 1 and 1 level 2 believers)

[Kunoichi]

I wonder what they'd think about two women getting married to one another in Thay?  It doesn't exactly seem like the sort of place that would be very progressive on most issues. :P

Then again, I suppose if the marriage gets the Red Wizard involved enough nice political and social connections...

[RubySlippers]

She is an Advocate of Law, she will make it legal. anyway its not likely a matter to the government that poses a threat to it.

[Rune]

I have been away from Elliquiy for a long time and only just saw this Game advertisement. I wish I had seen it earlier. I have a Red Wizard character that was cursed by his rivals and is now trapped in the body of a slave girl. No longer able to access his powerful magic, he (now she) has to learn the more subtle use of bardic magic and seduction. I understand if you game is full. But if there is ever an opening and this plot line sounds interesting, please let me know.

[Snake]

I have a build for a Feral Wild Elf Thayan Gladiator. would that work?  (Feral is a +1 LA, but gives a slew of good abilities)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Feral is quite simply and shortly said broken. However there is Willing Deformity + Deformity (clawed hands).

[Warlock]

I'll keep things brief since I hate phones. I'm going to set up the OOC thread tomorrow, so you can post characters there and have some pregame discussion and the IC thread will be added later as characters get completed. This will be in the NC small group system: Exotic.

@Rune: 7 is managable for me, so since you had something in mind already you can get cracking on character.

@Snake: Not familiar with Feral, so I'll defer to Zaer on this and not allow it, or at least advise against it.

[Snake]

Broken how?

Abilities: +4 Str, –2 Dex, +2 Con, –4 Int (minimum 2), +2 Wis. (that for a wild elf is a total of -6 Int, no Dex bonus totally invalidating the base race stat bonuses)

Sure you get +10 spd, +6 Natural armor, claws that deal 1d8+str damage, imnproved grab, Pounce, Darkvision 60' and Fast Healing 3....

But notice what else I dropped on there to for the RP aspect: Thayan Gladiator: meaning answerable to SOMEONE in power.

[Kunoichi]

I'm pretty sure the HD-related abilities on the Feral template are only for racial HD, not HD from your class, actually. ^^; So, no Pounce and Fast Healing is only at 2.  It's a powerful template for melee characters, and probably quite fitting for a Thayan Gladiator, but I don't think it would really be all that overpowered.  Very strong for LA +1, but not overpowered.

[Snake]

Kunoichi: the templates makes you "monstrous" humanoid, thus all of your class HD technically becomes "monster" hd I believe. Besides what good is a template with extra HD based abilties if you never get them?

*Points to half-anything as example*  Feral never specifies racial HD. Just "monster" HD which you are by taking teh template. Might be a good idea to consult RAW on it though

[RubySlippers]

A suggestion since you must have a natural weapon why not a humanoid race, like a LE Lizardman raised in Thay that would turn any Lizardman evil. Take Lizard Man/a Combat Class to get to the+5 Attack/Thayan Gladiator.

And it has a natural armor boost etc.

[Re Z L]

Feral is very strong, I wouldn't say broken necessarily, but it's an amazingly good deal for +1 LA, and even if it were a +2 LA it'd be great.

Warshaper is another way you could go to get to Thayan Gladiator as well, I was looking at a handful of options when building my Thrall, though I was thinking maybe just straight Warblade for simplicity since I don't want to try and play two characters at once overmuch...

If you want you could play my Thrall  ;D  though you'd be level 7 instead of 8 like the rest of us.

And as a side note, changed Nephis's alignment to LE so that she'd fit better with the lawyer  ;)

[Zaer Darkwail]

For +1 LA you get natural attack, +6 natural armor, fast heal 2, +10'ft movement and +4 to Str and +2 to Con&Wis (which some are countered by penalties you get). The -6 int penalty is heavy, but the trait of the PrC should not influence you get very powerful template (more so as GM can use it against us and I prefer not face feral creatures of anykind in our CR level).

I agree with Kunoichi that the extra features are related to monster HD like bugbear HD than class HD. But it's up to GM's judgment but those extra features give lot of extra power to the char.

But overall the +1 template gives 'too much' and it's a 3.0 material so it by default gives wonky perks compared to 3.5 stuff. I call tiefling and aasimar races more +0 races than +1 but I consider Dark creature template a solid +1 LA template (and draconic as well). If your willing take +1 LA template, the draconic template gives +2 Str, Con and Cha and some natural armor and claws as natural attack. So overall very good for thayan gladiator who uses warblade class powers.

Also as Re Z L mentioned, the template is strong (near broken even by my opinion), but warshaper level would be quite fine deal and easiest race to qualify for it is changeling (or shifter). Also warshaper gives crit and stun immunity (both valuable in arena combat). Also +4 to Str and Con also.

[Snake]

Ialso considered a half-dragon type with human base: dragon tail, multiattack and dragon breath as feats

3 natural attacks per turn, plus a full power breath weapon 1d4 turns? *cackle* but that LA+3 kind of hurts unfortunately

*<3's his dragon types though*

But Zaer and Kunoichi are right, I'm overreaching a little. Draconic is a fine template for a LA+1

Warshaper is nice but you have to have an ability to shapeshift somehow and (wildshape ranger? that's the class I used with a few variant added.)

as a note: while I have the ToB, the whole way they do things is a little wonky for me to grasp. *feels stupid*

[RubySlippers]

I could use a body guard and enforcer slave, basic duties look scary and kick ass and if executions need to be done it will be their task to do so. Oh did I mention she will give

I suggest as a Patron Deity Kossuth he is straight forward, LE is fine with him and he doesn't mind ambitious Thayans for her wife's deity.  ;D

[Kunoichi]

Draconic Wild Elf Thayan Gladiator sounds like a solid character concept to me.  I'd love to see the build for it, Snake. ^^

[Rune]

@Rune: 7 is managable for me, so since you had something in mind already you can get cracking on character.

Awesome! I will get working on it!

Do I have any tie ins with the other characters (I kept my origin brief to better fit in with other character's stories). I'm not just asking the GM, but also any other characters that I might potentially could have a shared history with.

[Kunoichi]

Awesome! I will get working on it!

Do I have any tie ins with the other characters (I kept my origin brief to better fit in with other character's stories). I'm not just asking the GM, but also any other characters that I might potentially could have a shared history with.

Well, as a Red Wizard-turned-slave girl, you might have something of a history with my Halfling slave girl character.  Perhaps you could also belong to Zaer's character, and put your bardic magic to use in his service?

Alternately, if Ironwolf comes through with that lady Illithid character, that could certainly lead things down an interesting path...

[Zaer Darkwail]

Yeah, I am Kunoichi's chars owner (a illusionist red wizard who uses shadow weave). So if want stick with the story being cursed former red wizard who has transformed into a bard slave girl of all things considered, you could serve my char (or RubySlippers as she plays my char's sister).

[Rune]

I will stick with the character origin. I guess one other question I have is that if you knew my character before or after the transformation, or both. Also, did you have a hand in cursing him?

[RubySlippers]

Yeah, I am Kunoichi's chars owner (a illusionist red wizard who uses shadow weave). So if want stick with the story being cursed former red wizard who has transformed into a bard slave girl of all things considered, you could serve my char (or RubySlippers as she plays my char's sister).

I'm married in the game I need muscle far over a pleasure slave. Anyway I'm sure the cursing was legal the laws among Red Wizards is pretty lax likely, for some odd reason.  >:)

[Kunoichi]

I will stick with the character origin. I guess one other question I have is that if you knew my character before or after the transformation, or both. Also, did you have a hand in cursing him?

Well, Curse spells are in the Necromancy school, while Zaer's character's specialty is in Illusion, so he probably didn't have a hand in the spell itself...

...On the other hand, his teacher Dmitra Flass is still publically-aligned with Szass Tam, Zulkir of Necromancy, so he might know some of the people involved. :P Actually, getting taken in by the infamous First Princess of Thay after your unfortunate transformation and then handed off to her apprentice might be a good explanation for how you came to be in Zaer's character's service.

Edit:

I'm married in the game I need muscle far over a pleasure slave. Anyway I'm sure the cursing was legal the laws among Red Wizards is pretty lax likely, for some odd reason.  >:)

And this is why I originally suggested joint ownership for the massively-overpowered tiger with attached halfling slave girl. :P I suppose you and your spouse would prefer a male bodyguard for a variety of reasons, though...

[Zaer Darkwail]

Necromancy is not my banned school and baleful polymorph is not in my spellbook (it's transmutation spell) but then again it's indeed possible a zulkir cursed you and passed you on like a toy until ending up to my char's ownership. But to get yourself cursed you must have screwed pretty badly (or faced one chosen of Mystra who cursed you and fellow thayans do not help failures).

[Rune]

Yeah, I would know better than to ask for help. But I would make promises of repayment once the curse is broken. Of course, being a Red Wizard, he had enemies and those who would actually revel in his predicament.

[Re Z L]

Nephis is always looking for loyal followers as well, and a Bardic Pleasure Slave is right up her alley  ;D

Her Thrall should end up being plenty muscley for both her and her wife  ;)

[RubySlippers]

Necromancy is not my banned school and baleful polymorph is not in my spellbook (it's transmutation spell) but then again it's indeed possible a zulkir cursed you and passed you on like a toy until ending up to my char's ownership. But to get yourself cursed you must have screwed pretty badly (or faced one chosen of Mystra who cursed you and fellow thayans do not help failures).

My character could have ordered it asking the Zulkir of Transmutation to enact it after approving the ruling.  >:)

[Kunoichi]

My character could have ordered it asking the Zulkir of Transmutation to enact it after approving the ruling.  >:)

That sounds awfully devious for a young woman who is supposedly leaving all the plotting and scheming up to her brother. :P

[Ironwolf85]

I'll sadly have to drop out due to life, I can't handle more than one large RP at a time for now.
I will keep this in mind when I have more time.

[Warlock]

I'll sadly have to drop out due to life, I can't handle more than one large RP at a time for now.
I will keep this in mind when I have more time.

Sad to hear that, see you around. :)
----

OOC thread is up, you can go check that out and I'll see you there.

[Snake]

Alright I've got a character made for this RP...If I hadn't left the notes for it at home.

[Kunoichi]

I'd recommend making a placeholder post in the OOC thread, and then editing your character into it when you get the chance.

[Warlock]

That sucks. Haha :P

[Snake]

OOC? Alright. I supose I can do that.

My idea and generated char was on the basis of a Thayan Gladiator: butu this version is a half-fang dragon with all the pre-reqs for Thayan gladiator I just need to level up.

btw: half-fang dragons are dangerous in melee cuz they automatically gain Improved Natural weapon for ALL Of their natural weapons.

To compensate fo rthe fact they have no immunities nor a breath weapon

[RubySlippers]

As long as you are willing to fight rebels, rape female ones and do other things. And for Gladiators I recommend Freeman sorts who do that professionally it opens more doors, slaves likely would be allowed near arms or armor unless in training areas or in combat for the masses. And we Red Wizards need enforcer types.

[Snake]

The one I was working on was female though.....

Given the char could possibly be over a century old; could she be a daughter of a previous Zulkir? ;p *one that' sno longer around naturally*. To make her useful I added in some craft ability too

[RubySlippers]

Okay minus the rape, but a Zulkier sleeping with a dragon - hum - sounds kinky.  ;D

It fits but we still need some enforcers and muscle there is a rebellion underway see my character was right keeping so many slaves is now biting the Thayans in the ass and not in the good way.

[Snake]

Well you never know. Unless their free, gladiator females may very well end up being raped. XD

[Zaer Darkwail]

Umh, thayan gladiators are always slaves. Some may have won freedom after a time but they always originally were full slaves owned by red wizard masters who transmuted them by zulkir of transmutation have 'improved' natural weapons.

You could had won freedom (a champion from a some city) who works as enforcer for hire and who occasion enters ring. But such freedom stories should be rare as no red wizard would let prized gladiator (and successful one) walk away alive unless said master died around same time person earned his freedom (and not through killing red wizard either).

It would be easier if my sister owns the gladiator, bought it and pampers it up so gladiator is happy to be her champion and henchman.

Anyways slave rebels? Okay, so sister needs prepare few summon monster spells I guess :P. Also I can throw some illusions and crowd control spells down there.

[RubySlippers]

I'm not sure it could be the Red Wizard civil war between the Zulkiers if that is the case, keep your head down. Its outside her duties as in normal politics.

If so Ssazz Tam is the horse to bet on.  ;D

[Snake]

Unless you stop him from pulling his 4e shenanigans....

[Warlock]

Unless you stop him from pulling his 4e shenanigans....

Anything after 1385 DR does not exist. What is this Abeir-Toril you speak of? ^^

I'm not sure it could be the Red Wizard civil war between the Zulkiers if that is the case, keep your head down. Its outside her duties as in normal politics.

If so Ssazz Tam is the horse to bet on.  ;D

Offical Timeline wise you start at the beginning of the events that lead to the civil war, there's still a few years before hell breaks loose. Unless a band of intrepid anti-heroes interfere that is.

Also don't call Ssazz Tam a horse, it's a good way to join his ''voluntary'' undead forces. ^^

[RubySlippers]

Okay he is the mighty undead power with massive legions one should be siding with early on.

[Snake]

man I hate myth-weavers today. they keep fucking with the system and making it impossible to save, cuz it keeps crashing.