->| EXALTED |<- "Should The Sun Not Rise"

[Muse]

  I don't know those abbreviations you're using, Jarick. 

[Cessali]

OP, Original Post (or sometimes Original Poster);

GSP, Green Sun Prince, as opposed to akuma, as both technically fit within the banner of Infernal Exalted.

[Rajah]

I for one am incredibly excited about this. So, to our two prospective STs, could we get a setting sketch - even a very brief one - to start building ideas around?

[Synecdoche17]

So, I hear that in October there will be new rules. Will we be using those?

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I am sort of on the fence.  While I am definately excited for new rules, I am pondering how much of a "game changer" that would be.  Honestly I feel confident that people could make characters (at least backgrounds and such) before they drop.  Sorry this has taken me so long, been quite tied up.

[AndyZ]

When Third Edition comes out, it'll only have rules for Solars and maybe one other group, but probably just Solars and ordinary humans.  It generally takes years for all the other options to come out.

To that end, I strongly recommend not trying to throw together a game which will be very Infernals-heavy unless this one also isn't going to have Infernals as playable characters.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Well I intend for the game to be all Infernal player characters.  Also the books being released lately (WtA and VtM 20th anniversaries) include most everything in one shot.  Just have to cross fingers and see on that end.

[Cessali]

Flight of the Broken-Winged Crane
There is no such things as the Reclamation.

Oh, there was such a thing, once, and any demon sage confident that Orabilis cannot hear their speculation has a theory as to why it ceased to be.  Some say their leashes were too long, and the Green Sun Princes rebelled for the same reasons all mortals have rebelled against their rightful masters.  Some say the idea was a dream too far, even beginning to imagine that the soul-pantheons of the Yozi could cooperate in such a coherent way for any length of time.  Others point to the absence (disappearance? death?) of the phylactery-construct Lilun.  And some say it was too little, too late-- not even with a hundred warlocks could Hell have averted what has befallen Creation.

For the Yozi, it matters not.  Ligier has declared the subject taboo, and Orabilis declared that such a project never transpired in the first place; the Green Sun Princes have officially been abandoned, and must forge a new path for themselves...

But in this day and age, who -isn't-?


THIS PART IS KEY:
Be sure to make a character that is not only going to be willing to, but interested in, working with the other PCs.  The game will be taking place RY778, ten years after the normal timeline begins, and shit is going to have been increasingly fucked as those ten years roll on.  The narrative that builds from here will depend at least in part in what interested players are interested in, whether it's the preservation of Creation against forces that are likely to destroy it, the creation of a preternatural paradise that will stand against the tides of darkness, or saying "fuck it, dude, let's go bowling with blood ape skulls."

All PCs will have known one another on past encounters and at least be nominally familiar enough with one another to be willing to form a sort of extended circle/coven/siblinghood.  I'll be soliciting possible particulars as to what specifically has gone wrong, but it'll suffice to say for now that unless someone posits something more interesting, the Lotus Massacre succeeded, the Realm's strength is being spent in isolationistic fervor, the Deathlords now rule openly and war openly with their errant minions, Solar Exalted suffer even more desperately from the Great Curse, the unity of the Silver Pact has been a sham ever since the Shogunate days, and the Champions of Autocthon know better than to trust any of these crazy Exalts at their word.

MECHANICALLY:
We will be using the 2.5 ruleset.  For those of you who desire a chance to play with numbers on a sheet (a crowd of which I am oft part of), this game will be primarily focused on GSPs, additionally using the rules out of The Book of Ten Thousand Scorpions for the Unwoven Coadjutor background and additional Yozi Charms.  I'll also be taking GSP-friendly Solars, Lunars (as per the Terrifying Argent Witches rewrite with options to veto particular Charms), Abyssals, and Dragonbloods.  No PC akuma, Sidereals, or Alchemicals are permitted.  This will be done as an XP build with (subject to change) 600 XP; all Attributes and Virtues start at 1, Essence at 3, and Willpower at 5, with Backgrounds costing 3xp.  No Merits/Flaws.  Characters will gain one free Excellency for their Caste and Favored Yozi/Abilities/Attributes.  Crafting will be using Revlid's revision.  The Mentor background will be required to learn new Martial Arts, sorcery, or necromancy (at 1 dot per "tier" of the capacity in question) if you do not have a teacher through other sources.  Other homebrew may be used at my discretion; do not build a character around it until you have my go.

[Rajah]

Flight of the Broken-Winged Craneadditionally using the rules out of The Book of Ten Thousand Scorpions for the Unwoven Coadjutor background and additional Yozi Charms.

I think you mean the Fourth Soul? It's not actually in the Book of Ten Thousand Scorpions, for whatever reason.

This will be done as an XP build with (subject to change) 600 XP; all Attributes and Virtues start at 1, Essence at 3, and Willpower at 5, with Backgrounds costing 3xp.

Is that a pure XP build, as in no part of normal character creation (8/6/4 attributes, for instance) occurs at all? The large number seems to suggest so.

Well I intend for the game to be all Infernal player characters.  Also the books being released lately (WtA and VtM 20th anniversaries) include most everything in one shot.  Just have to cross fingers and see on that end.

Their release schedule and developer discussion can be found on the official Exalted forums; the earliest we are likely to see Infernals is 2016. Initial 3rd Edition will contain only Solars and mortals, and Dragonblooded will be released in 2014, with no set date for Lunars (who are next after Dragonblooded) or anyone else. An unfortunate necessity, I suppose; progress comes more slowly than is wished.

[Zaer Darkwail]

I voice interest to join a infernal game, just sit and watch answers given to above questions (especially regarding do we dismiss all char gen stuff and have 600 XP to spend or do we get standard char gen + 600 XP).

[Rajah]

I voice interest to join a infernal game, just sit and watch answers given to above questions (especially regarding do we dismiss all char gen stuff and have 600 XP to spend or do we get standard char gen + 600 XP).

Hi! I was really hoping you'd show up to this party. I'm TPO Cantaxes Taemos and Cathak Rajarion.

[Cessali]

Fourth Soul, yes.  I thought the Coadjutor was on there when I looked at it but it wasn't!

And yes, pure XP -- no 8/6/4+Ability dots.  Attributes and Virtues start at 1, Essence at 3, Willpower at 5, plus free Caste and Favored Excellencies; everything else has to be bought from the ground up.

[Empyrean]

And we'll be getting more info in September? I look forward to learning more and consider this an expression of interest. :)

[Zaer Darkwail]

Hmmm, interesting approach for char gen. Do we use standard cost or shall we use following formula to all exalted chars (I find it quite balanced in long term);

Favored cost after the /:

Attribute : 8/6 XP [Rating 6+ : 16/12 XP]
Ability : 4/3 XP [Rating 6+ : 8/6 XP]
Specialty : 2/1 XP
Native Charms/Spells : 10/8 XP
Unfavorable Magic : 9 XP (Heretical Charms, Infernal Spells, Knacks)
Alchemical Martial Arts : 11 XP
Superior Magic : 12/10 XP (Mortals learning TMA/TCS, DBs learning CMA)
Essence : (Rating × 8) XP
Virtue : 3 XP
Willpower : 3 XP
Backgrounds : 3 XP
Stuff not on this list  : Old XP cost

Hi! I was really hoping you'd show up to this party. I'm TPO Cantaxes Taemos and Cathak Rajarion.

Oh hi! Nice to see ya :).

[Cessali]

While all Exalts will be using the Solaroid cost to add Charms/increase Essence and paying 9xp for nonfavorable magic, raising traits will be happening at the normal book costs.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Ouch, you do know the willpower very least is overcosted? Here is run down to get willpower from 5 to 10 with XP;

5x2 = 10 XP for 6th dot
6x2 = 12 XP for 7th dot
7x2 = 14 XP for 8th dot
8x2 = 16 XP for 9th dot
9x2 = 18 XP for 10th dot

Total: 70 XP

So in short, willpower 10 costs 7 unfavored charms (or knacks). Costing raise three unfavored abilities to max 5th dot. Costing more than raising essence to 5th dot (plenty left over).

Although we have 600 XP to use but the XP burns pretty damn fast in attributes; getting 2 dots for everything would cost 72 XP alone. Raising all to 3th dots would cost additional 144 XP.

Not to mention we would need XP for backgrounds, charms (besides freebie excelency) and virtues and abilities.

Not saying I am not fine with this but I thought using uniformal XP cost everything expect essence only being the scaling one.

[AndyZ]

I probably won't be in this game, but regarding the XP-creation system, I personally want to suggest that it works better than the default chargen system.  You have to make sure it's enough XP, of course, but you get seriously punished if you don't have things like WP as high as possible at the start.

Now, this system can be gamed just as easily thanks to training time, but training time isn't as onerous as XP.  You don't have the issue that 4 freebie points to raise Appearance from 3 to 4 (12xp) could get WP from 6 to 10 for 40xp.

Given enough training time (or ignoring the training time rules altogether) means that players who want to grow into their abilities won't be left behind). 

Certainly you shouldn't get WP10 at start with this system, but it makes it much more feasible to buy it up later, especially compared to the other players.

[Rajah]

Not saying I am not fine with this but I thought using uniformal XP cost everything expect essence only being the scaling one.

I did some math and it works out pretty close to normal character generation at 0xp, except you can sacrifice things for more Charms (at the cost of a lesser 'base' sheet). I was gonna ask if Jarick would consider maybe going with 400xp and a flat buy just because that feeling of burning things away is kinda unpleasant and the old argument that Strength 4 - > 5 for 20xp is not worth two 8xp Melee Charms (and thus it encourages skimping on the mortal for more magic) but I can deal with it either way, I suppose.

[Cessali]

EDIT/REWRITE:

The XP for character creation is, as mentioned tentative.  600 is a number I threw off the cuff; expect it to go up when I actually have firmer setting data come September, and expect opportunities for additional experience right off the bat immediately after I have a solid headcount.  Yes, I do know that XP buy for Willpower is Very, Very High.  Right now I am okay with that being the case, and honestly I am also okay with the weird asymmetry of burgeoning Primordial power coming more easily than mortal skills.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Well, usually the base char gen of heroic mortal (which is very similar to exalted solar) takes emphasis on the fact person has got normal life and life experience before exaltation. So with pure XP system you can abuse the said fact that you can take max stats on stuff you want and be diminished in areas where not even normal mortal would not be (like all virtues being 1 when not using any flaws to explain it).

So overall XP buy is okay but there should be ground rules none the less that folks do not say, have all social and mental stats in 1 and while physical stats are maxed (for a slayer example). So when we use those rules then it would be same to use normal BP options (or if we use them then folks have idea that they need spend XX amount XP for primary attributes and XX amount to secondary attributes etc).

[Cessali]

I intend on reviewing all characters before I put a stamp of sanction on them, and any submitted PC sheets will also be up for serious questioning by their fellow players-to-be.  If someone wants to game the system by skimping on a set of attributes, they'll have to both A) entertain me, and B) justify it to their fellow players why they' carrying around a pathetic weakling, someone who flinches at the mere thought of being spoken to, or someone who might as well be catatonic.

Expect the metatextual equivalent of a [Chicanery-No] tag.

[Zaer Darkwail]

Aha, ok. I will work on sheet and send to you once it's done.

[meikle]

Certainly you shouldn't get WP10 at start with this system, but it makes it much more feasible to buy it up later, especially compared to the other players.

Everyone blissfully overlooks that Willpower has always been capped at 8 (unless a character has two virtues at 4) at character creation anyway.  Having two Virtues to constantly roll against / eat your WP and add limit is a pretty hefty cost for those last two dots.  The game describes such characters as "unreasonably intense."

[Zaer Darkwail]

Huh? So how a char with 3 virtues maxed and maxed willpower with integrity 4 would be alike then? When speaking the person is dragon-blood?

(a curious RP question as have such char in Rpol game)

[meikle]

Huh? So how a char with 3 virtues maxed and maxed willpower with integrity 4 would be alike then? When speaking the person is dragon-blood?

(a curious RP question as have such char in Rpol game)

A character with 3 virtues capped should be a slave to their virtues at that point.  Any time they make any effort to do basically anything that isn't virtuous, they have to get 0 successes on 5 dice or spend willpower and gain Limit.  This is very much a constraint on how those characters would look in practice; someone with, say, Valor 5 Temperance 5 Conviction 5 would be terrifying to encounter, and there's not really any way around that (except playing them in a way that doesn't reflect what's on their sheet, I guess.)

Now, Exalted 2e made spending Willpower not really a big deal, and with 2.5, it's basically useless except for soaking mental influence, but conceptually if you've got three Virtues at 5 and you're constantly spending willpower to ignore them you're probably doing something wrong.

edit: I think I have answered the wrong question, because I read "alike" to mean "would all characters with high virtues be the same," and I think you meant, "What would a character with high virtues and max willpower be like?"  In the latter case, I mean, still terrifying.  I don't know what one Virtue you aren't compelled by; you have 10 willpower, which means your character probably never questions themself.  It's Exalted and Conviction is usually the most useful Virtue, so they probably never change their course of action once they've settled on it.  Everyone loves Valor, so your character can never be slighted without some sort of response, can't back down from a challenge, won't look away from a fight.  Your characters should often find him or her-self spending Willpower and eating Limit when their Virtues come into conflict (because Valor says you must accept this fight to the death, and Compassion says you can't just kill them; because how can you turn down a drinking contest, but Temperance says you know better; because Conviction says never, ever stop, no matter what, and Compassion says, But you cannot go this far.

A character with multiple high virtues should be incredibly intense and constantly conflicted.  They will hit their limit more often than other Exalted, but that's not as big a deal for a Dragonblood.  The Unconquered Sun deals with having all of his Virtues at 5 by never leaving his house long enough to notice what's happening in the world.