Shadowrun 4A: Seattle Nights

[Jaded]

Oh, dear... 

Glyphstone, you should check the rules on bows again.  Last I heard they couldn't benefit from strength higher than eight! 

I believe Muse is correct.

Is it too late? Real life has had me a bit too busy to make a sheet or much lately. But if I'm too late I understand.

You're not too late, how long do you think it will take to get your sheet done?

[TheGlyphstone]

Oh, dear... 

Glyphstone, you should check the rules on bows again.  Last I heard they couldn't benefit from strength higher than eight!

I just looked at my copy of Shadowrun 20th Anniversary Edition, and it says bows cap at Strength Rating 12. Was an errata for the core book published somewhere?


EDIT: Self-poking around found an 'update errata' for the SR4 book that was meant to list the changes from SR4 to SR20th, and it does have the 'Bows cap at Strength 8' clause plus an 'arrows are hella expensive' clause, but both of those are then missing from the 20thE book itself. So I'm crazy confused now.

If it's simpler to just make a houserule capping Bows at a lower max Strength rating (which seems to be the consensus across a large number of various message boards, since it's unclear whether the fix in the SR4 update PDF was meant to carry over into the actual SR20E book or if they decided to revert the change between the update printing and the full book release - everything except that change looks like it went into 20E as-written), I can live with that...though the huge surcharge on ammunition is kinda painful, considering bullets don't pay more based on their caliber, and it'd make any non-standard ammo impossibly expensive (400 NY per Explosive Arrow or Screamer and 40 per regular/hammerhead arrow is 2x the bullet cost for regulars and 5-8x the cost of specials).

[Muse]

That's weird. the 20th anniversary edition book is supposed to include all of the eratta. 

[TheGlyphstone]

It is weird, because every other item they mention in that errata document is present in the 20thE book exactly as printed. The only thing they didn't carry over is the modifications to bows, and since there's no actual SR20E Errata itself, I can't tell if that was deliberately left out while making the other changes, or if it somehow got skipped over.

[Flying Tengu]

I've got it in my copy.  First full sentence on page 316: "Material science limits high-tech bows to a maximum Strength rating of 8."

[TheGlyphstone]

Excellent, that solves that bit. What about the clause regarding arrow cost, and capping damage at the lower of arrow rating or Bow rating?

[ShadowFox89]

 I guess I'll make a heavy weapons expert then. Missiles ho!

[Flying Tengu]

Ah, that's the next sentence.  "Calculate base damage using the lower value of the bow rating or the arrow rating."

Eesh.  That would get pricy.  40NY per shot.  On the bright side, I think for the fancy arrowheads, you buy the base arrow, and then swap the arrowhead for a flat fee.  So explosive arrows would be just be 50NY.  I think.

Since I'm tired of giving you bad news, can I suggest that with your high body score, you might enjoy getting some tough armor.  Buy an armor jacket, add a helmet, laugh as nothing can hurt you, but you can still move freely.

[TheGlyphstone]

I'm going to hold out and hope Jaded takes mercy on me and houserules away the arrow Rating rules and surcharges. Particularly since, by strict wording of the chargen rules and the new bow/arrow clause, I also can't buy arrows or a bow with a Rating higher than 6 at start, despite being strong enough to fire a bow much bigger/more powerful. So using a bow means I would have to completely re-buy all my weapon and all my ammo after our first successful mission.


As for armor, I've got a Chameleon suit already (Agility 7+Infiltration 5+Chameleon bonus 4 = NINJA TROLL), I suppose I could add a helmet to it.



....do Assault Cannon rounds come in Gel flavor? :D

[ShadowFox89]

 xD

I'm thinking a mix of heavy weapons and stealth. I get the feeling that someone without schneaky skills would get left behind a bit.

[TheGlyphstone]

Only if you're part of the sneaky team. Being sneaky gets a nice circumstance bonus when someone is very non-sneakily firing missiles at the compound's outer walls.

[ShadowFox89]

 Maybe, but I have a strong preference for elves :P

Or maybe a kitsune.....

[Thorn14]

You're not too late, how long do you think it will take to get your sheet done?

It would go a lot shorter if someone could help me with the drone thing. What do I need for these? What programs or whatever?


I figured my sniper would have 3-4 flying microdones for scouting, one of those rollyballs for inside places, and an armed walker that can be controlled. And maybe something else if someone has any good suggestions.

I might give my sniper a slight phobia for blood and always prefer to work from a distance or by proxy.

[Jaded]

I'm going to hold out and hope Jaded takes mercy on me and houserules away the arrow Rating rules and surcharges. Particularly since, by strict wording of the chargen rules and the new bow/arrow clause, I also can't buy arrows or a bow with a Rating higher than 6 at start, despite being strong enough to fire a bow much bigger/more powerful. So using a bow means I would have to completely re-buy all my weapon and all my ammo after our first successful mission.


As for armor, I've got a Chameleon suit already (Agility 7+Infiltration 5+Chameleon bonus 4 = NINJA TROLL), I suppose I could add a helmet to it.



....do Assault Cannon rounds come in Gel flavor? :D

You could grab the Bow with the Restricted Gear rating, and I'd allow you to get a few Arrows of a higher rating with the same.  I'd prefer to avoid house rules for now. 

I'm fine with arrowheads being swappable.  I would also say arrows are reusable (if you can recover them), unless they are used with incendiary or explosive heads (or are otherwise destroyed).  ;)

Where did you get the 400 nuyen price for explosive arrows?

It would go a lot shorter if someone could help me with the drone thing. What do I need for these? What programs or whatever?


I figured my sniper would have 3-4 flying microdones for scouting, one of those rollyballs for inside places, and an armed walker that can be controlled. And maybe something else if someone has any good suggestions.

I might give my sniper a slight phobia for blood and always prefer to work from a distance or by proxy.

I'd take a glance at the Drone Rigger sample character in the book.  You'd probably want at least one each of the Autosoft programs, with a Maneuver for each type of vehicle you have, and a Targeting for your armed drone.  As well as some of the other programs (ECCM, Command, Encrypt, etc).

[Thorn14]

How does Autosoft work again?

[Jaded]

They add abilities to the drone when they are operating remotely I believe.  Page 245, under Issuing Commands, mentions it.  So if you aren't directly controlling the drone, it allows it to have more versatility. 

[TheGlyphstone]

You could grab the Bow with the Restricted Gear rating, and I'd allow you to get a few Arrows of a higher rating with the same.  I'd prefer to avoid house rules for now. 

I'm fine with arrowheads being swappable.  I would also say arrows are reusable (if you can recover them), unless they are used with incendiary or explosive heads (or are otherwise destroyed).  ;)

Where did you get the 400 nuyen price for explosive arrows?

Restricted Gear allows Availability up to 20 instead of 12, it doesn't modify the maximum Rating. So that's no good. Besides, I'm capped out on Positive Quality points.

I don't know where I got the 400/arrow for explosives, actually - I think I momentarily confused Damage rating with Rating. Assuming Explosive arrows need a Rating like normal ones, they'd cost Rating*10, so 60 nuyen/shot at the maximum Rating 6 I'm allowed to have.

If it's not feasible to...well....make starting with a bow feasible, I can just get some rinky-dink little pistol, focus on melee with Killing Hands, and buy a suitably kickass bow and arrows once we complete our first run. Alternately, I start with the weaker bow, and after a run, take it to an archery store somewhere and have it retooled for a higher draw strength (if that's possible, I don't know bowyery at all).

[Sethala]

I would say it makes sense to let you pay the difference between your current bow and an upgraded one to change it in.  Possibly with a little less "trade-in" value for your old bow, but either way not make you pay the full price for the new bow that replaces your starting one.

Then again, I don't know how Shadowrun's economy works terribly well, so...

[AndyZ]

I haven't been watching this thread very closely.  If there are specific questions that still haven't been answered, let me know.

[Thorn14]

They add abilities to the drone when they are operating remotely I believe.  Page 245, under Issuing Commands, mentions it.  So if you aren't directly controlling the drone, it allows it to have more versatility.

So are they programs I put into my commslink or something that the drones get?

[Jaded]

My understanding is that it can be installed in any number of drones as it is just a program.  It just has to be (for maneuvering/targeting) the right type.  There are rules in Unwired for copy protection, but I'm not going to worry about them for character creation.

-=-=-

I'm not sure if you could upgrade a bow, as it might be the materials themselves that aren't up to the job.  I might let you trade it in, but not straight upgrade.  Let me think on that.

[Thorn14]

What I have so far. Not nearly done. I have 13 BP left and 6700 Nuyen remaining.

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

== Info ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 7
Lift/Carry: 6 (45 kg/30 kg)
Memory: 7
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 5
REA: 3 (4)
STR: 3
CHA: 3
INT: 4
LOG: 4
WIL: 3
EDG: 3

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   3.28
Initiative:                7 (8)
IP:                        1 (2)
Matrix Initiative:         4
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     11
Stun Damage Track:         10

== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 3
Animal Training            : 0                      Pool: 3
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 4
Armorer                    : 3 [Firearms]           Pool: 7 (9)
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 4
Automotive Mechanic        : 1                      Pool: 5
Blades                     : 0                      Pool: 4
Climbing                   : 1                      Pool: 4
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 4
Computer                   : 2                      Pool: 6
Con                        : 0                      Pool: 2
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 3
Cybertechnology            : 1                      Pool: 5
Data Search                : 2                      Pool: 6
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 3
Disguise                   : 2                      Pool: 6
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 2
Dodge                      : 3 [Ranged Combat]      Pool: 7 (9)
Electronic Warfare         : 2                      Pool: 6
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 4
Etiquette                  : 0                      Pool: 2
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 3
Flight                     : 1                      Pool: 4
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 4
Gunnery                    : 1                      Pool: 6
Gymnastics                 : 1                      Pool: 6
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Hardware                   : 2                      Pool: 6
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 4
Infiltration               : 2                      Pool: 7
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 2
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 2
Leadership                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Locksmith                  : 0                      Pool: 4
Longarms                   : 4 [Sniper Rifles]      Pool: 9 (11)
Medicine                   : 1                      Pool: 5
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 3
Negotiation                : 0                      Pool: 2
Palming                    : 2                      Pool: 7
Parachuting                : 0                      Pool: 2
Perception                 : 1 [Visual]             Pool: 5 (7)
Pilot Aircraft             : 1                      Pool: 5
Pilot Anthroform           : 1                      Pool: 5
Pilot Ground Craft         : 2                      Pool: 6
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 3
Pistols                    : 2                      Pool: 7
Riding                     : 0                      Pool: 3
Running                    : 1                      Pool: 4
Shadowing                  : 2                      Pool: 6
Software                   : 2                      Pool: 6
Survival                   : 1                      Pool: 4
Swimming                   : 1                      Pool: 4
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 4
Tracking                   : 1                      Pool: 5
Unarmed Combat             : 1                      Pool: 6

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Hawk Eye
Mania/Phobia (Common, Mild) (Blood)

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Cybereyes Basic System Rating 3
   +Eye Recording Unit
   +Image Link
   +Protective Covers
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 1
   +Vision Magnification
   +Thermographic Vision
   +Low-Light Vision
Synthetic Full Arm (BOD 3, AGI 6, STR 3) (Right)
   +Customized Agility Rating 5
   +Enhanced Agility Rating 1
   +Cyberarm Gyromount
   +Holdout Pistol
Wired Reflexes Rating 1

== Weapons ==
Holdout Pistol
   +Smartgun System
   Pool: 7   DV: 4P   AP: -   RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 6   DV: 2S   AP: -   RC: 0

Would love help on what gear to get and maybe if any other augmentations.

[Muse]

  If I may be so bold, Glyphstone, 8 damage is a hell of a lot.  I don't see any reason to respec your character away from using a bow just because his arrows don't hit like tank shells.  They still hit harder than military rifles, after all. 

[TheGlyphstone]

It's not 8 damage, though...it's 6. 8 damage I could live with, and eventually buy up to 10....but the rules say you cap your damage at the lower of the Bow rating or the Arrow rating, and while a Rating 6 bow would deal 8 damage, Rating 6 Arrows only deal 6 damage, equivalent to a low-grade assault rifle or a good heavy pistol. I can't burst fire or full auto fire with a bow, the way I can with most firearms, so it's 6 damage per shot compared to 8-12 damage/shot at no recoil penalty.

One arrow from a bow = DV6, no AP, simple action to shoot (would be a Complex action to shoot+reload if I didn't have the Quick Draw adept power). Costs 30 nuyen per shot.
One burst fire from an AK-97 w/ Gas-3 vent, underbarrel weight, and hip pad brace = DV8, AP -1, simple action to shoot, and costing 60 nuyen a shot.
One full-auto burst from said AK-97 = DV11, AP -1, simple action, no penalties on the first shot and a -1 penalty on the second shot. Costs 120 nuyen a shot, so the most expensive option though.

Even a mundane heavy crossbow would be DV7, AP-1, single shots only.

[Thorn14]

Well you'll certainly be more silent.