The Tornado Within(D&D 3.5 seeker thread)

[NicciKotor]

Two of my games have slowed to nothing, so here is a nice pathfinder game to get people nice and excitable. I am rather new to pathfinder, but I know enough to not make a fool out of myself. I have found through experimentation that 4 people is a good number for me as well, so be prepared to fight amongst yourselves over who gets in.

-Level 6 starting.
-4 people, even mix of boys and girls.
-17000 gp starting.
-4d6 standard.
-Pathfinder rules, naturally.
-One free personal magical item.

Also this is going to be a urban game, so prepare for that. Depending on the class layout of the group, I'll figure something out for how you all know each other. It is very very bad to start a game without prior knowledge of the party.

[ulthakptah]

I think I'll play. I just don't know what class yet.

[NicciKotor]

I think I'll play. I just don't know what class yet.

Gasp! The horror!

[ulthakptah]

Gasp! The horror!

Yeah, whatever, you know you love me.

[avorae]

I am so in.. I will probably go either cleric of maybe monk...

[NicciKotor]

I am so in.. I will probably go either cleric of maybe monk...

Gasp! The horror!

[Revelation]

I think I would be interested, is playtest contest allowed? If so, I'd probably make a gunslinger.

[NicciKotor]

I think I would be interested, is playtest contest allowed? If so, I'd probably make a gunslinger.

Gasp! The horror!

Also, nope.

[Revelation]

Gasp! The horror!

Also, nope.

Mm, alright. No to possible class or me? If the former, probably... Something, would need to think.

[ulthakptah]

Hmm, a party in a urban game without a rogue is no good, and pathfinder rogues are pretty beefy. I'm making a rogue. About how much should our one free personal magical item be?

[NicciKotor]

Nevars!

Just throw ideas at me, so I can laugh at them. The free magical items should not be over powered.

[ulthakptah]

How about a +6 Belt of Magnificence, all it does is give a +6 enhancement bonus to all abilities. That's not broken at all, right?

[Revelation]

How about a +6 Belt of Magnificence, all it does is give a +6 enhancement bonus to all abilities. That's not broken at all, right?

Add in +6 to saves? Just makes it an epic item :p

Well, for PF... I think I might as well just try a plain old fighter, every group needs one.

[NicciKotor]

Add in +6 to saves? Just makes it an epic item :p

Well, for PF... I think I might as well just try a plain old fighter, every group needs one.

Think you can post at a regular daily level? I know you had trouble in the pasts, but we did manage one solo game well enough together.

[Revelation]

Yeah, I feel pretty bad about that. This game, I would post at a more active pace, promise.

[ulthakptah]

Think you can post at a regular daily level? I know you had trouble in the pasts, but we did manage one solo game well enough together.

What no comment on how ridiculous of an item that is? fine, I give a real submission then. Belt of Battle it's only 6% of the market price of that other belt I asked for. It gives +2 to initiative, and has 3 charges. Using one charge gives an extra move action, two gives a standard action, and all three gives a full round action.

[NicciKotor]

Sounds kinky enough. Could be a magical naughty item too. Those are more fun to have around since you can be far more creative about it.

[ulthakptah]

Okay all done here



Vincent Calavicci

[NicciKotor]

22 hp?

Also list your magical items so I can see what you got there. I am not familiar with pathfinder items, just MIC items.

[Revelation]

Working on a fighter now. How do we handle HP? roll it too?

For free magic item, trying to think of something more 'kinky' that a fighter would have, just what would count as something kinky and erotic for a magic item tah fighter would keep? I"m open to ideas :P Though they seem to be slim pickings in my head.

[NicciKotor]

yeah standard roll for hp.

A naughty item would be towards your personality, not your class. What sort of kinks your char would have would limit what you would carry around. Being a fighter would hardly have much to do with that.

[ulthakptah]

22 hp?

Also list your magical items so I can see what you got there. I am not familiar with pathfinder items, just MIC items.

I fixed that now I have 50hp

Anyway most of the items in pathfinder are the same as they were in 3.5 like Eyes of the Eagle and Hat of Disguise. The rest of the items are from MIC Battle Belt, Healing Belt, Chronocharm of the horizon walker, and Chronocharm of the laughing rogue. The Chronocharm of the laughing rogue I payed an extra 8k on to have the continual effect of the Critical strike spell from Spell Compendium. The formula for adding such an effect is spell level*caster level*2000*4 for the spell duration being measured in rounds

[NicciKotor]

Pretty sure the caster level has to be higher then level 1 to make magic items. Also a continuous reroll on failed disable device checks is going overboard, so nix that idea right then and there.

I knew I smelled something weird when I saw your items list and saw how there wasn't enough for 17000 gp.

[Revelation]

http://plothook.net/RPG/profiler/view.php?id=8152

Used pretty much PF feats only, nothing from WoTC 3.5, all of those feats were in the SRD for PF. Lucky HP rolls! If anything seems in error or you wish it changed, let me know.

For a naughty magic item, Hrm... Personality wise, he'd probably prefer women who were either buxom, or women in fairly revealing outfits, so perhaps some sort of item tailored to changing womens clothing or enhancing their assets? :p I have a feeling these are on the tame level, however. For other non magical gear, I usually have trouble figuring out what he'd have, so i'll get to work on that a bit later, he has about 1,000 HP left.

[ulthakptah]

Pretty sure the caster level has to be higher then level 1 to make magic items. Also a continuous reroll on failed disable device checks is going overboard, so nix that idea right then and there.

I knew I smelled something weird when I saw your items list and saw how there wasn't enough for 17000 gp.

Well, you are wrong, and you're wrong. The caster level can be 1st lvl for a magic item. Two examples are the Watch Lamp and the Ring of Floating. The second thing you wrong about is what the item does. It still only gives one reroll everyday, but it also puts me under the continuous effect of a critical strike spell. The critical strike is continuous, the other ability works just the same.

[NicciKotor]

I don't buy how a magic item enchantment that gives 3 continious effects to the wielder can be caster level 1. That's contradictory. Even if you have to be going at a foe susceptible to sneak attacks to make it work.

[ulthakptah]

Don't look at me I don't make the rules. I just abuse them to better suit my needs. As for it being caster level one, it's a first level spell, you only need to be caster level one to use it. If you made it into a wand/potion/scroll it would still only be spell level one, caster level one.

[NicciKotor]

Don't look at me I don't make the rules. I just abuse them to better suit my needs. As for it being caster level one, it's a first level spell, you only need to be caster level one to use it. If you made it into a wand/potion/scroll it would still only be spell level one, caster level one.

And craft wondrous items requires caster level 3 to have. A first level wizard cannot make that item you want.

[ulthakptah]

And craft wondrous items requires caster level 3 to have. A first level wizard cannot make that item you want.

This is indeed true, but when creating an item a creator can create an item at a lower caster level than their own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. The lowest level is based on the spell needed not on the feat.

While item creation costs are handled in detail elsewhere, note
that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the
creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator
can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but
never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed
spell. For example, a 15th-level wizard could craft a wand of fireball
at 10th caster level, or even as low as 5th level (the minimum
caster level for fireball, a 3rd-level spell), but no lower. If she did
this, the fireball would in all ways be treated as if the caster was of
the lower specified level (for damage, range, and so on). Using
metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level
than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spell’s level to
increase its effectiveness, or quicken a spell to allow it to be used
as a free action, placing it within an item at the higher metamagic
level. See Chapter 5: Feats in the Player’s Handbook for more on
metamagic feats.

The same is true in pathfinder as well.

Item Cost: Brew Potion, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, and Scribe Scroll  create items that directly reproduce spell effects, and the power of these items depends on their caster level-that is, a spell from such an item has the power it would have if cast by a spellcaster of that level. The price of these items (and thus the cost of the raw materials) also depends on the caster level. The caster level must be low enough that the spellcaster creating the item can cast the spell at that level. To find the final price in each case, multiply the caster level by the spell level, then multiply the result by a constant, as shown below:

[yesiroleplay]

An urban game cries for a bard!  And pathfinder bards actually don't suck!
maybe a circlet of persuasion as the freebie item?  It's awfully twinky, but completely within the flavor for bard and it actually made it into both the 3.5 and PF SRDs.

[NicciKotor]

Could use more female players, so all the more to it. What is the specifications for that item?

[Revelation]

Just wanted a quick checkup to see if my fighter looked valid, seems like it might have been missed with the ongoing magic item discussion.

[NicciKotor]

My point still stands, there is no way a magic item that gives 3 continuous effects can be caster level 1. There is plenty of stupid things in the rules, and allowing something like this to happen is one of them.

[ulthakptah]

Yep, the enchantment has a caster level of 1 and cost EIGHT THOUSAND GOLD!!! If anything the low caster level is a bad thing because it makes it that much easier to dispel. What matters in the price.

[NicciKotor]

8000 gp for a cast level 1 magic item is also ridiculous. Your money would be best invested in some spider climb slippers or another item that allows for greater urban movement.

[ulthakptah]

It's too powerful!

It's not worth its price!

Why don't you make up you mind?

[NicciKotor]

It's about consistency. Caster level 1 magic items are suppose to be simple items with limited usability. What you are suggestion is hardly simple.

[ulthakptah]

If it makes you feel better the 8,000 gold CL 1 enchantment is on a 500 gold CL 5 magical item, so it actually has a CL of 5

[NicciKotor]

Speaking of which, I am pretty sure there is a additional cost required to put an enchantment on a item that already has an enchantment. Yep, a 50% increase to put an enchantment on a enchanted item. Page 282 of the DMG goes into detail about this, in how a belt of +4 str and +4 dex is worth more then a belt of +4 str and gloves of +4 dex combined.

Since the belt takes up only one slot, compared to the belt+glove combo. It should cost more.

[ulthakptah]

Speaking of which, I am pretty sure there is a additional cost required to put an enchantment on a item that already has an enchantment. Yep, a 50% increase to put an enchantment on a enchanted item. Page 282 of the DMG goes into detail about this, in how a belt of +4 str and +4 dex is worth more then a belt of +4 str and gloves of +4 dex combined.

Since the belt takes up only one slot, compared to the belt+glove combo. It should cost more.

That's if the enchantments are different. I'm adding an enchantment that give an extra dice of sneak attack to an item called "the Chronocharm of the laughing rogue" that's pretty similar. However even if you say they are different it would only be 50% extra on the less costly ability. Making the total price 8,750 instead of 8,500.

[NicciKotor]

The chronocharm came first, so it would be 12500 gp. Where does it say the lesser enchantment would be 50% increase?

[ulthakptah]

The paragraph above it saying how the discount works. Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus one-half the value of any other abilities. Then in the paragraph you quoted it says that instead of taking off, add 50% for each additional power. Ergo 8000+500*1.5=8750

[NicciKotor]

That is for items that do not take up a body slot. Chronocharm is a necklace of sorts, so those rules do not apply.

[ulthakptah]

Um, you're wrong again. Both of those rules apply to the same thing applying multiple magic effects to the same item. The difference between them is whether the effect are similar or different. Hench why the paragraphs are titled Multiple Similar Abilities and Multiple Different Abilities respectively.

[NicciKotor]

Your paragraph explicitly states items that do not take up a body slot. The 50% increase is for magic items that have more then one different abilities and are body slot items. Of which we have here. An the effects are different, one is sneak attack bonus's and the other is disable device rerolls. Quite different.

[ulthakptah]

Fine, but that doesn't change the order that the prices are affected. If you had a belt of +4 str and +2 dex, it would cost as much as a +4 str belt plus 1.5 time the cost of a +2 dex gloves. Not the other way around.

[NicciKotor]

The critical strike spell isn't tied to the chronocharm, the disable device re roll is. The 8000 would be increased. The critical strike is clearly the additional power.

[ulthakptah]

Argh, no, the the way it's applied has to do with how much the each thing costs, like the way the discounts were applied. It works the same way as the other rule except that instead of taking off 25% then 50%, it adds 50% every time.

[NicciKotor]

No where in that paragraph does it state that. It only says additional power gets the 50% added on. The additional power is clearly the critical strike spell.

[ulthakptah]

It's implied from the previous rule. Anyway I could just as easily say I put that critical strike spell on a charm necklace then added the Chronocharm of the laughing rogue effects to it.

[NicciKotor]

It isn't applied. The chornocharm is a established magical item, the additional power is still the critical strike spell.

[ulthakptah]

each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

Translation: You know how in the last paragraph I talked about how the extra powers got discounts? Yeah, forget that these don't get discounts. In fact add 50% to them instead.

[NicciKotor]

You are putting two powers into one body slot, hence the 50% increase. The additional power is the spell, not the chronocharm.

[ulthakptah]

Yes, I'm not arguing the 50% increase. I'm saying it applies to the one that costs the least like with the discounts.

[NicciKotor]

And I am saying that the 50% increase applies to additional powers, which is clearly the spell, not the chrome.

[ulthakptah]

Whatever, Gary Gygax himself couldn't convince you you're wrong. I'll just put the spell on some bracers.

[NicciKotor]

Whee. That nonsense is done and over with. I have a sexy priestess in the wings making her character. Still need one more girl to play. She is going to be the face of your mercenary group.

[Ixy]

Possibly interested?  Can you guys give me an idea on post length minimum?  Um, and cause I'm not 100% sure who's in/out, what classes are we looking at so far?

[NicciKotor]

Possibly interested?  Can you guys give me an idea on post length minimum?  Um, and cause I'm not 100% sure who's in/out, what classes are we looking at so far?

I don't care about post length, as long as there is enough detail to cover the important parts. Anything extra is just gravy.

Right now I got rogue, fighter, and cleric. Could use arcane to balance things out. Or a druid. Urban druids are always sexy.

[Ixy]

okay... kinda insomniac at the moment, so will go play with pfsrd and see what I can come up with... sorceress, urban druid, or warlock I'm thinking...

[Xillen]

When checking from a theoretical point of view, Ulthakptah is correct.

When checking from a practical point of view, the DM is always right! ;)

[NicciKotor]

Gasp, the lack of posting is making me gasp!

[ulthakptah]

What am I supposed to be posting about I already finished my sheet and had a long and pointless debate with you.

[Ixy]

Making a Sorceress.  yaaaay lots of busywork.  Sorry for the delay.

[NicciKotor]

What am I supposed to be posting about I already finished my sheet and had a long and pointless debate with you.

exactly!

Robot Chicken: Le Wrath di Khan

[NicciKotor]

Making a Sorceress.  yaaaay lots of busywork.  Sorry for the delay.

I have no idea where the priestess went off too. We were having a lively conversation over her being the face and feat selection last night.

Sorceress!? SORCERESS!?

That's fine.

[Ixy]

Okay, let's see how This character suits your liking?

[NicciKotor]

Looks good. Though we already have a face, so your free item is rather redundant.

[Ixy]

Okay... any suggestions on a replacement?  I could replace it with something kinkier, cooler, whatever you think.

[yesiroleplay]

Okay, let's see how This character suits your liking?

I was wondering about your skills?  39 seems like a lot.  Human(1)+favored class(1)+int(1)+Sorc(2) = 5 per level max.  for 30 possible skill points.
I would suggest that as a sorcerer you use your favored class bonus for more spells known instead of a skill point, and that would drop it down to 24.

If you're using a non-pathfinder  character sheet (the pathfinder sheet at plothook.net is very good) , then I suggest putting the +3 trained class-skill bonus into the misc column of the skill table.

[NicciKotor]

Bag of flames is always naughty.

[Ixy]

I was wondering about your skills?  39 seems like a lot.  Human(1)+favored class(1)+int(1)+Sorc(2) = 5 per level max.  for 30 possible skill points.
I would suggest that as a sorcerer you use your favored class bonus for more spells known instead of a skill point, and that would drop it down to 24.

If you're using a non-pathfinder  character sheet (the pathfinder sheet at plothook.net is very good) , then I suggest putting the +3 trained class-skill bonus into the misc column of the skill table.

I wish I could do that "more spells know", but it's not Core so it would be 100% up to Nicci.
As for the skills?  There are 30.  The subtotal shows 39 below, but that's a mythweavers bug... look at the ranks, they add up to 30. 

[Ixy]

i should clarify-- because mythweavers doesn't have PF sheets, I didn't fix the cross-class skills and it added them up to BE 30 to buy the ranks, but the skills taken aren't actually cross-class so it's just 30 ranks total.

[NicciKotor]

there is a feat to know more spells, but you can only get one more spell at the second highest spell level you currently are at. So you could only get one more second level spell.

Would just be easier to get a runestaff.

[yesiroleplay]

I wish I could do that "more spells know", but it's not Core so it would be 100% up to Nicci.
As for the skills?  There are 30.  The subtotal shows 39 below, but that's a mythweavers bug... look at the ranks, they add up to 30.

I'm pretty sure she told me I could do the spells thing when I was was going bard.

The total isn't a bug.  Cross-class skills cost double.  Unless your class skills are mis-marked?

[ulthakptah]

just treat all your skills as class skills and add 3 to the ones that are actually class skills. That's how skills work in pathfinder

[ulthakptah]

and you don't get four time your skill points at first level

[yesiroleplay]

there is a feat to know more spells, but you can only get one more spell at the second highest spell level you currently are at. So you could only get one more second level spell.

Would just be easier to get a runestaff.

Using the alternate human favored class feature would give her 3 more known 0-level and 3 more known 1-st level spells.  if you're a human bard or sorcerer, this almost becomes your only choice for your favored class bonus.  Really, really hard to beat.

[yesiroleplay]

Using the alternate human favored class feature would give her 3 more known 0-level and 3 more known 1-st level spells.  if you're a human bard or sorcerer, this almost becomes your only choice for your favored class bonus.  Really, really hard to beat.

mmm... make that 3 more known 0-level, 2 more known 1-st level spells, and one more known 2nd-level spell.
duh

[Ixy]

oh eff.  you're right, i 4xed the skills.  aaaak.  yes, the cc skills were mis-marked.  will fix, don't want to hold you all up.  Did I miss the IC thread?

[ulthakptah]

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=98404.0

[Ixy]

Thanks.  Post within 1/2 hour or so.  Skills/spells to be fixed within 1 1/2 to 2 hours.