The Washington Times really is being run by nutjobs.

[Vekseid]

I'm not going to dignify the bigots with a working link.

www washingtontimes com/news/2009/nov/17/pruden-obama-bows-the-nation-cringes/?feat=home_headlines

A little traveling, like a little learning, can be a dangerous thing. Barack Obama on the loose in a foreign land is enough to frighten protocol officers and embarrass the rest of us.

He went off to Asia to tell the Chinese a thing or two about world trade, to prepare the world for a treaty to make the sun change its spots, and of course to pay his respects to assorted heads of state, with particular attention to any royal head (perhaps even including Miss Universe) who crosses his path.

So far it's a memorable trip. He established a new precedent for how American presidents should pay obeisance to kings, emperors, monarchs, sovereigns and assorted other authentic man-made masters of the universe. He stopped just this side of the full grovel to the emperor of Japan, risking a painful genuflection if his forehead had hit the floor with a nasty bump, which it almost did. No president before him so abused custom, traditions, protocol (and the country he represents). Several Internet sites published a rogue's gallery showing how other national leaders - the prime ministers of Israel, India, Slovenia, South Korea, Russia and Dick Cheney among them - have greeted Emperor Akihito with a friendly handshake and an ever-so-slight but respectful nod (and sometimes not even that).

Now we know why Mr. Obama stunned everyone with an earlier similar bow to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, only the bow to the Japanese emperor was far more flamboyant, a sign of a really deep sense of inferiority. He was only practicing his bow in Riyadh. Sometimes rituals are learned with difficulty. It took Bill Clinton months to learn how to return a military salute worthy of a commander in chief; like any draft dodger, he kept poking a thumb in his eye until he finally got it. Mr. Obama, on the other hand, seems right at home now giving a wow of a bow. This is not the way an American president impresses evildoers that he's strong, tough and decisive, that America is not to be trifled with.

Some of the president's critics are giving him a hard time, and it's true that this president seems never to have studied much American history. Not bowing to foreign potentates was what 1776 was all about. His predecessors learned with no difficulty that the essence of America is that all men stand equal and are entitled to look even a king, maybe particularly a king, straight in the eye. Can anyone imagine George Washington, John Adams or Thomas Jefferson making a similar gesture of servile submission? Or Harry Truman? Or FDR, who famously served the lowly hot dog, with ballpark mustard, to the king and queen of England? John F. Kennedy, on the eve of a trip to London, sharply warned Jackie not to curtsy to the queen.

Douglas MacArthur, who ranked above mere heads of state in his own mind, once invented his own protocol on greeting Emperor Hirohito. The emperor, the father of Akihito, wanted to meet MacArthur soon after he arrived to become the military regent of Japan in 1945, perhaps to thank him for saving the throne at the end of World War II. When the emperor invited MacArthur to call on him, the general sent word that the emperor should call on him - speaking of breaches of custom - and the two men were photographed together, astonishing the Japanese. The emperor arrived in full formal dress, cutaway coat and all, and MacArthur received him in summer khakis, sans tie, with his hands stuffed casually in his back pockets. Further astonishing the Japanese, he towered over the diminutive emperor.

But Mr. Obama, unlike his predecessors, likely knows no better, and many of those around him, true children of the grungy '60s, are contemptuous of custom. Cutting America down to size is what attracts them to "hope" for "change." It's no fault of the president that he has no natural instinct or blood impulse for what the America of "the 57 states" is about. He was sired by a Kenyan father, born to a mother attracted to men of the Third World and reared by grandparents in Hawaii, a paradise far from the American mainstream.

He no doubt wants to "do the right thing" by his lights, but the lights that illumine the Obama path are not necessarily the lights that illuminate the way for most of the rest of us. This is good news only for Jimmy Carter, who may yet have to give up his distinction as our most ineffective and embarrassing president.

Emphasis mine.

For those unfamiliar with Japanese custom, the bow is essentially their version of a handshake. The pundits complaining about this - at all - are essentially deriding Obama for shaking hands with the figurehead of a major ally. Of course, in the bigot's world, the only acceptable thing to do is to force your own superficial traditions on others, and place your own superficial interpretations on theirs.

In Pruden's world, we are to punish babes for the actions of their ancestors. Apparently we can afford to.

[Rhapsody]

Right wing ignorant rag is right wing ignorant rag.

Because God forbid that the leader of the United States should actually show humility and respect for other cultures.  That isn't what the stereotype of the loud, crass, ignorant American is all about after all.

I'm fond of this blog post.  Selected quotes:

If someone can explain how Obama’s bowing to Akihito suggests inferority I’d be glad to entertain the idea. Otherwise I’m just going to have to conclude that Gribbit isn’t too bright. I would also bet my life that he has not read a word by or about Sigmund Freud, as he has no concept of how the word “Freudian” is used by people with a clue. And if he can support the blind accusation that Obama favors a “one-world government” and U.S. “enslavement” to same, I’d be interested to read it, but evidently this is (surprise!) just one more example of a demented wingnut throwing around terms that make him feel marginally better as he blathers into a void.

Gribbit continues:

Barack Hussein Obama has done more in his first 9 1/2 months in office to demean the office of President of the United States than any previous Chief Executive. And that is saying a lot as he follows in the footsteps of Slick Willy and his moronic questioning of the word is.

So in Gribbit’s view, the U.S. had no president between January 2001 and January 2009. Actually, he’s not far off, but in this pointless paragraph only underscores what a blind and hapless fuck-up he is. It’s not easy to elide the eight years George Bush spent in office unless you’re a nutjob of Gribbit’s caliber.

Gribbit says that “Obama jet-sets around the world embarrassing the United States by bowing to foreign monarchs, people here at home continue to lose jobs by the thousands per day.” I’d like to see the connection between these circumstances. What’s the bow:job-loss ratio? Anyone have a decent guess?

[Brandon]

To point out something, in Japanese culture (I dont know if its the same for Chinese or not) the height of a bow can have some meaning. When two people of equal standing bow to one another they try to keep that bow in equal hieght. While a Subordinate meeting with their superior will want to make there bow slightly lower then the other person. The height of the bow can even be seen and taken as begging if a person were to get on their knees and place their forehead against the floor.

That all said, I think its ludicrous to suggest that the bow ment anything beyond him trying to employ a foreign greeting.

[Oniya]

I believe Brandon is correct about the levels of the bows, although China and Taiwan are not as formalized as Japan.  Typically, though, the deepest bow you'll encounter is up to a 45-degree angle at the waist.  The 'kowtow', which sounds like what the Washington Times reporter is describing, went out of fashion with the collapse of Imperial China.  This would probably be the equivalent of showing up in a powdered wig - quaint at best, archaic and uninformed at worst.

[Trieste]

... *sigh*

[Vekseid]

To point out something, in Japanese culture (I dont know if its the same for Chinese or not) the height of a bow can have some meaning. When two people of equal standing bow to one another they try to keep that bow in equal hieght. While a Subordinate meeting with their superior will want to make there bow slightly lower then the other person. The height of the bow can even be seen and taken as begging if a person were to get on their knees and place their forehead against the floor.

Yes, in general - Akihito's bow looks a lot like some sort of back spasm >_> Though at the highest levels of power showing humility is always a desirable trait. Some Japanese will even address inanimate objects as superiors.

[Rhapsody]

... I just thought of something.  I don't know how relevant it is, but... Wouldn't Hatoyama Yukio be the Obama's equal, since he's the Prime Minister of Japan, thus getting a respectful but shallow bow, while Akihito as the Emperor has his own set of protocols and deeper bows required?  Much like he can shake the hand of England's PM John Major, but can't lay a hand on the Royal Personage of Queen Elizabeth without breaking some serious protocol?

[Oniya]

Deeper, possibly.  Even so, the deepest bow - even from a mailroom clerk to a CEO is about 45 degrees.  (Probably held for a good 5 count in that example, but yeah.)

[Callie Del Noire]

I find it interesting that MacArthur was brought up. Who was known for running roughshod over ANYONE and EVERYONE else when protocol came to play. I doubt there was a president or foreign leader he didn't insult at some point after getting his first star.

[Vekseid]

Grinding the German and Japanese morale into the dust was a major part of the endgame strategy. There was actually a video instructing English-speaking soldiers never to lend a handshake, or an apology (to the people of the Axis).

Of course, building them back up was an essential part of the endgame, as well.

[Morven]

I think the real issue with some people is that that's an American tradition Obama explicitly does NOT want to follow.  I don't think that part is accidental, or because Obama 'doesn't know any better', isn't aware of the grand American tradition.  I think he thinks it's part of the problem, part of what gives America its reputation.

However, it would have been better had he got someone to show him how to bow correctly Japanese-style, if he was going to do that, but whatever.  It's not really all that important.  As a foreigner, you're not supposed to get it right; you get most of the points for trying.

I just love the way the Washington Times manages to be so ignorantly racist/nationalist/stupid, thoughy.

[Trieste]

The sort of people that write articles like this are the sort of people that call me, ask for hotel availability in Abu Dhabi and when I quote them the rate in local currency, they ask me what that is "in actual money" (meaning American dollars). It's a pet peeve of mine...

[Neroon]

It's not as if it's the first time he's bowed to someone as president.  Didn't he bow to King Faisal on a trip to the Middle East earlier in the year?

[Oniya]

The article complained about a 'similar bow' he made to King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia.  Personally, I'd rather see the footage of the bow instead of a description in an otherwise biased article.  This bit:

He stopped just this side of the full grovel to the emperor of Japan, risking a painful genuflection if his forehead had hit the floor with a nasty bump, which it almost did.

implies almost a full kowtow, which is badly outdated, and would probably provoke nervous titters among all in attendance.  The full bow that I described earlier would probably just provoke a series of diminishing bows (not unheard of when one party bows deeper/longer than necessary).

[consortium11]

The sort of people that write articles like this are the sort of people that call me, ask for hotel availability in Abu Dhabi and when I quote them the rate in local currency, they ask me what that is "in actual money" (meaning American dollars). It's a pet peeve of mine...

While saying "actual money" is pretty demeaning the sentiment isn't that bad. I have no idea what the exchange rate between the Dirham and the Pound/US Dollar is and I assume most people are the same... hell I dout most people could even name the currency. Quoting AED1533 at me right now is meaningless... and depending on how far I'm planning ahead I may not have worked out exchange rates when checking hotels.

[HairyHeretic]

Asking "How much is that in dollars?" is ok as a question. Like you say, they likely don't know exchange rates. Changing it to 'real money' is somewhat derogatory, whether intentional or not.

[Trieste]

That's pretty much precisely my problem with it. I'm not naive enough to expect "Could you please convert that to US currency?" every time - I wish people would be more polite, but rude is the rule with my customers - but implying that KWR or Chinese Yen or Euros (I get it for Euros, too, yep) or Dhiram are not 'real money' is regiocentrist and ignorant. I just want to tell them sometimes that Americans like them are the reason I used to wear a Canadian flag whenever traveling - so people wouldn't treat me like I'm going to act in the same manner.

As I said, pet peeve. I love my country, but I don't have to like what my countrymen do...  O8)

[Oniya]

Asking "How much is that in dollars?" is ok as a question. Like you say, they likely don't know exchange rates. Changing it to 'real money' is somewhat derogatory, whether intentional or not.

I'd be tempted to look up the exchange rate in Troy ounces.

[Trieste]

I would like notification if you ever get a divorce plzkthx.

[Moonsword]

I'd be tempted to look up the exchange rate in Troy ounces.

Unless it's really ritzy, under half an ounce, I'd think.  And you'll want to look up the last auction on a coin from Troy to get that information.  Not sure where information like that would be, though...

[Oniya]

Erm - Troy ounces are the standard for weighing precious metals.  The name actually comes from the French town of Troyes.  (Source: http://gold.bullionvault.com/How/TroyOunces)

[Moonsword]

I guess that's what I get for being a historian.  *chuckles*

[Valerian]

The article complained about a 'similar bow' he made to King Abdullah in Saudi Arabia.  Personally, I'd rather see the footage of the bow instead of a description in an otherwise biased article.  This bit:

implies almost a full kowtow, which is badly outdated, and would probably provoke nervous titters among all in attendance.  The full bow that I described earlier would probably just provoke a series of diminishing bows (not unheard of when one party bows deeper/longer than necessary).

I saw a brief clip of the bow in question -- it looked like perhaps the 45 degree angle mentioned elsewhere, but he was nowhere near a full kowtow.  It was a very brief clip, though, so I didn't get a look at the emperor's reaction/return bow.

[Oniya]

In that case, I scrap my 'quaint and archaic' comment from earlier.  At worst he was overly polite - which is something this world could use a lot more of, in my opinion.

[Kotah]

The Bow.

Barack Obama bows to Japan's Emperor Akihito