Something that didn't make the news

[Hunter]

Thoughts?

http://vodpod.com/watch/4324079-man-assaulted-arrested-at-alaska-state-fair-for-impeach-obama-sign

[Nyarly]

I'd nearly bet there is actually a good explanation for this, that didn't make this news.

It's nearly always like that.

[Callie Del Noire]

I disagree with the whole 'impeach him cause he's not my vote' outlook out there. It comes from both sides and it's counterproductive 90% of the time.

BUT the guy did have a right to speak up for himself and I guess if it was four years ago and he was waving an 'Impeach Bush' sign and this happened folks at CNN would be offering him a book deal.

It's just not going to be popular to pick on a president the media mostly likes.

[Jude]

http://www.adn.com/2010/09/03/1438512/security-guards-handling-of-protest.html

Didn't make the news, or you didn't bother to look for the news that it made where it's mentioned that this was private property?

...and apparently he had a gun!

[mystictiger]

...and apparently he had a gun!

That's in case the United Nations KGestapoB came to get him...

[Jude]

A valid concern given he was in violation of Shariah Law.

[Callie Del Noire]

I didn't think the fair was considered private property (but then I'm sure that varies by locality) and a gun can factor into it (that depends on if he had a right to carry license.. my brother does in Texas).

A LOT of elements weren't included in that video.

And what sort of Law Jude?

[mystictiger]

I suspect Jude was joining in my mocking of various conspiracy theories about what Obama has permitted in the US.

Danger. Sharia-related rant ahead!

Remember that the amendment in Oklahoma was Sharia law -and- public international law. I would love to see how the courts in that state will resolve any question that has any relationship to international trade, extradition, commerce, war-crimes, human rights, or the environment.

Given also that the US Constitution generally regards PIL as a good thing (don't believe me, go read the bit about the powers of congress), I would actually regard such a ban as unconstitutional. But I guess the US isn't quite ready to elect a Scottish Jew to the SC... ;)

[Callie Del Noire]

'i thought that it was radical Islamic religious law and last I recalled that didn't pertain to this thread as that guy was in the US.

[mystictiger]

'i thought that it was radical Islamic religious law and last I recalled that didn't pertain to this thread as that guy was in the US.

And in that case you'd be mostly right. Sharia isn't necessarily radical or extreme - it is simply Islamic religious law. You are, however, entirely correct that it doesn'tapply to the US.

Unlike Sharron Angle.

[Trieste]

Didn't read Jude's link; didn't watch the full video. I watched long enough to notice a few things (I stopped it at 3:51, so if you want to see what I saw, watch it up until there).

* There is no way to tell if he's dealing with actual police officers or simple security guards. Since most security guards do not have the authority of arrest (at least in MA), it's reasonable to say he was probably dealing with actual police officers.

* It is illegal to videotape police officers in some places. It is also illegal to videotape people without their express permission in most places. And in case there was doubt about the express permission part, the cameraman is asked on camera to turn the camera off. S/he fails to respect that.

* There is an adorable little cut just before the arrest itself, after a lot of ranting. There is no way to know if, between cuts, the signholder yelled a threat at the officers, brandished a weapon, did a sudden jig, or began to levitate. There is nothing showing us what led up to the arrest. For all we know, he told someone their mother's a whore and he's going to kill them. That would be arrestable.

* This is addressed by Jude's post, but there's no indication of whether or not it's actually on public land or not. Most fairgrounds are in fact private property, in which case, yes, you MUST leave if they ask you to. Otherwise, you're trespassing and that is a crime.

So it appears that the man was not, in fact, arrested for protesting Obama, but for actually breaking the law. Truly shady, that. Bad, bad policemen.

[Vekseid]

And no one was arrested for protesting Bush. Oh wait.

Don't get me started on what happened across the river from me at the Republican National Convention two years ago.

The cut at 3:20 just before the arrest is cute. We're supposed to trust video cuts involving LaRouche followers? Not a chance. Show the whole video or don't waste our time, please.

And Hunter, please just embed the direct video:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[Serephino]

I didn't watch the whole thing either, but I too was thinking about how he was on private property.  As far as I know, state fair grounds are state property.  You can be asked to leave for disorderly conduct, which is what that looked like.

[Hunter]

Honestly, I watched about a minute of it before I turned it off.  I like politics like most people like getting a root canal.  I was interested in seeing what people here thought, though.

[Vekseid]

Honestly, I watched about a minute of it before I turned it off.  I like politics like most people like getting a root canal.  I was interested in seeing what people here thought, though.

Then why did you post it?

LaRouche followers have been the same folks who have been painting Obama as 'Hitler'. Considering that they themselves are considered to be a fascist, anti-Semitic movement, that's pretty rich, don't you think? If we can't trust them to put forth honest arguments, we can't trust a video cut just before the event in question that the video was made about, and you made this thread for.

[Sonya]

Ooh~ Very interesting *nods* Ecsepcially the comments in the thread that follow. :) It's easy to get riled up with the man, but it all wittles down to technicallityes and yes, I DID miss the fact that there was a video cut the first time around, something I'm SURE it's due to the need to change camera batteries or anything, considering the moment is right before for how ever long it took for the security to finally take down the gentlman. Thus, it left viewers with only how a protestor, not showed doing anything or saying anything, to be tackled down (with crutch mind you) by two huge guys for how ever long a duration of time, leaving with a big distate in our minds.

On the matter on the state fair being private property likliness, if it was, the first two security personnel were obviosuly just allowing him for awhile. I mean, he had al that time for those people to gather and such and sit down and chill behind that sign before the actual take down, leaving us to believe that 'sure, they're ok with that' but something had to had change RIGHt before the cut that WAS the main reason of needed to stop.

Meh, but I guess I'm just overthinking it ;)

[mystictiger]

I really have severe issues with Obama being portrayed as Hitler. Mostly because the things that Hitler did to make him Hitler are... well... kind of clear:

Obama has yet to invade Poland
Obama has yet to commit genocide
Obama has yet to start a world war
Obama has yet to turn the legal and judicial system into a means of supressing dissent
Obama is taller, blacker, and lacks facial hair.

Oh wait... they both... erm... have dark hair! Clearly they're alike!

[Nyarly]

The moment someone portrays anyone as Hitler is the moment to stop taking this person seriously. Such a "comparison" (actually it's just an insult) is just mindless mudslinging and a sure sign of a lack of proper arguments. Seriously, you could just say that he eats babies, that's just as nonsensical.

And calling a black guy "Hitler"? Seriously? Calling a Jew "Hitler" would just be barely more idiotic.

[Trieste]

Oh wait... they both... erm... have dark hair! Clearly they're alike!

Wasn't Hitler also a talented public speaker? Obama isn't one of the most talented out there (HI MR CLINTON I MISS YOOOOU) but I like listening to his speeches. The speeches themselves have a sense of humor and he has elocution and poise.

I suppose my support means I have to wear a swastika. Siiiigh...

[mystictiger]

I missed the obvious connection!

They're both... MEN!

I guess I should go and do a bit of creative shaving. I wonder how that'd go down in class...

[HairyHeretic]

Well, the swastika has been around a long time, and used all over the world. It just may take a while before it can reclaimed from the association it currently has.

[Trieste]

They actually have a Hindu swastika symbol on the posters around my campus advertising the Diwali celebration tomorrow night. This one.

[Vekseid]

Wasn't Hitler also a talented public speaker? Obama isn't one of the most talented out there (HI MR CLINTON I MISS YOOOOU) but I like listening to his speeches. The speeches themselves have a sense of humor and he has elocution and poise.

I suppose my support means I have to wear a swastika. Siiiigh...

I actually suspect that's why fascists are associating Obama with Hitler. They don't want to be beaten to the punch.

Depressions create lots of vulnerable people who are receptive to charismatic folks giving them hope, and placing prior blame. Democracy is never so weak as it is during moments when so many people are so desperate.

[Noelle]

I especially enjoy the back-and-forth on his various identities. One minute he's enslaving the white man (still waiting on that one), the next minute he's only succeeding because of his white ancestry. One minute he's a scholar of a crackpot, radical evangelist Christian preacher who hates white people, the next minute, he's a radical Muslim smuggling terrorists over our border and taking a dump on our freedoms while cooperating with the Jew media to propagate his message of elitist commumarxofascisociodictatotalitarianism. It's actually kind of impressive how many contradictions you can pack into one person.

[mystictiger]

I'd vote for him! He sounds like a superhero!

President Obama, by day a mild mannered American president, and by night a radical muslim. Together, he fights crime!

[Hunter]

Then why did you post it?

Exactly as I've already said: I'm interested in what people here think of it.

[Oniya]

Honestly, I watched about a minute of it before I turned it off.  I like politics like most people like getting a root canal.  I was interested in seeing what people here thought, though.

I did something kind of interesting.  I watched it with the sound off.  Instead of looking for whether his rhetoric was offensive or not, I looked to see if he did anything that would provoke the security guards into their actions. 

What I saw:  At some point, he was clearly asked to leave.  It appeared from body language that it was relatively civil.  A crowd gathered, and things started to go downhill.  Perhaps it was the crowd that was becoming more of an issue?  The cuts and lookaways were annoying in this respect, as it directed things away from the actions of the security guards and the protester.  The one thing I saw that could have been an issue on the part of the protester was when he was being escorted off, and he wrapped his legs around the guard to his right.  This could have been seen as an attempt to trip the man (apparently not too successful, as the guard in question was showing as much difficulty in walking as Mr. Oniya when the little Oni wraps herself around his leg.)  It was after that when the throwdown occurred.  I've seen cops take a man down for resisting arrest - could this have been a similar (though overdone) reaction?

Just tossing this out there.  As far as whether it's legal for someone to get thrown out of a state fair or any other event that they've bought a ticket for: short answer is that yes, they can.  I've seen them escort drunks off the state fairgrounds before, as well as other people who cause a disturbance.  If you're polite about it, they might even refund your ticket price.

[Vekseid]

The moment providing the most important context was removed from the video. It says nothing except for the fact that the people posting and promoting it are being openly and willfully deceptive.

[outsidethelines]

I went to an anti-war protest here by where I live in DC about... oh, must have been three or four years ago. Some protesters showed up with 'Impeach Bush' signs. They got a little out of hand and were definitely man-handled by the cops, haha. They weren't being violent or threatening. They just got excited, and I suppose the cops were planning to nip anything in the bud before it could grow.

[Noelle]

Excitement and disruption spreads fast in crowds. I think Oniya is on to something in that the crowd probably only exacerbated the issue and made it even more vital to remove the man from the grounds. The crowd was not aware that he was carrying a gun and probably didn't even think about the fact that the fairgrounds were private and that the man did not, in fact, have a right to promoting his message there, especially without paying for an exhibit space/booth like the t-shirt vendors he bitched about did -- you see then that the crowd starts questioning the security guards and try to get involved without having the full picture. That's an issue. Misinformation can get out fast and I am almost positive the security guards were trying to cart the man out before any kind of mass attention was drawn to the issue and more unnecessary problems created.

[Ojokernegro]

The moment providing the most important context was removed from the video. It says nothing except for the fact that the people posting and promoting it are being openly and willfully deceptive.

That ^

[Pumpkin Seeds]

Actually if you listen to the officers speaking into their radios at the first part of the video then you can hear the reason they confronted the man.  They state that he did not pay to enter the event nor did he pay for advertisement rights at the event.  A public ground can be used to host a private event.  People are not simply allowed to do what they want at the event simply because it is on public ground.  If the event hosts paid dues,  performed the proper paperwork and then had other people pay to enter, participate, sell goods or services on the grounds then they can remove the man for not doing the same. 

For instance, many times concerts are held at parks and such.  People are often charged to attend the concert or sell goods there.  A person cannot simply walk into the concert, setup a table and proceed to sell stuff.  Just like they couldn’t go into the concert free of charge and start to protest.  That the man was being belligerent to paying customers only made the matter more clean cut for the police and hosts of the event. 

[Oniya]

I should have been a little more clear.  I perfectly agree that not paying for his space is a reason to escort him off the property.  What I was looking for was what escalated it to doing a full take-down and sitting on him.