Looking to get into a 3.5 Eberron game [UN]

[Kunoichi]

Well, as the title says, I'm hoping that I might be able to find some people interested in running and playing in a D&D 3.5 edition Eberron game.  I would run the game myself, but unfortunately I don't have either a Dungeon Master's Guide or a Monster Manual.  I pretty much have to rely on other people for my gaming needs. >>;

As for Eberron...  Well, it's a setting I really love, and yet I only rarely get to play games set in it.  Valenar Elves, Talenta Halflings, Gatekeeper Druids, Kalashtar... it's a world with a lot of cool concepts and ideas, and I've really been wanting to play in it lately.  I'm open to any sort of storyline and would be happy to start at any level, but I do have a few ideas of my own if anyone's at a loss for a plot.

There's the typical Sharn inquisitives game, of course.  Murder, mystery, dealing with the city's criminal element and maybe going down into the Cogs, the impoverished underbelly of the City of Towers.

There are plenty of possibilities in a Xen'drik game, of course.  Exploring ancient ruins, trekking through dangerous jungles, trying to beat rival groups like the Emerald Claw to valuable and powerful artifacts... or even just getting involved in the politics of Stormreach.

One thing that could be fun is a game set in the lizardfolk-infested jungles of Q'barra.  Helping out the Cyran refugees who have come to build a new nation for themselves, dealing with the Riedran immigrants that the Inspired have so generously sent to aid the Cyran people, exploring the remains of an ancient demonic city...

And there are plenty of other places rife with potential plots, too.  Druid enclaves in the Eldeen Reaches, Dhakaani ruins in Darguun, pirates in the Lhazaar Principalities, the Demon Wastes, Droaam, the Shadow Marches...  The world of Eberron is a wonderful campaign setting, so hopefully there's someone out there who's as interested in running a game set in it as I am in playing in one. ^^

[The Great Triangle]

I might be willing to run an Eberron game focusing on a group of recent graduates from the Rekkenmark Academy, their veteran soldier bodyguards, plus any random tagalongs. 

I'd use the E6 rules variant, where the maximum level is 6, and characters progress beyond that by acquiring feats which slightly increase their prowess.  The main reason for this is that I really dislike the "grind for xp" playstyle of D&D, if you don't have the next few years free to play out the game.  It also forces players to use more story based solutions to their problems, rather than relying on their power.

(as a side note, the last game I tried to run using this rules system ended in disaster because the PCs were too powerful and completely destroyed the game theme I wanted to run with, which was survival against the elements.)

[GreenHavok]

I am not really familiar with the Ebberon setting, but i am interested in some hack and slash kind of fun. So count me in

[SirHakado]

I\'d be interested in playing this, been a while since I\'ve played a good DnD Game.

... I really need to read up on my Ebberon though, but that\'s no problem.

Not to keen on the E6 varient though.
I mean, that really hoses the magic classes, as well as fighting classes with less then full BAB.

[PhantomPistoleer]

This sounds lovely.

Please consider me when you get to developing the game!

[The Great Triangle]

I'm going to be hacking in a magic system which gives the spellcasting classes the power to cast 4th-9th level spells.  (although you have to go through a lot of effort to do so, such as going to the top of a mountain and arranging 13 virgins in a circle so that they can sing a song under the new moon which breaks any enchantment.)

I'll go ahead and post my E6 Variant rules, starting with the demographics manifesto.


In the World of Eberron, one in a thousand people are members of the PC classes.  For every character of 6th level, there are 60,000 mundane individuals.  Given that 6th level heroes tend to cluster in larger cities, this means that most people will never even see someone of this level.  (in fact, many will never see a member of the PC classes) but they will certainly hear of them.

On the entire continent of Khorvaire, with it's 15 million people, there are about 250 true level 6 heroes among the common races, out of 15,000 members of the PC classes.  NPC classes speak for 50,000 additional level 6 characters, 35,000 of which are 6th level commoners.  What is a 6th level commoner?  A 6th level commoner is a pillar of the community, someone who can create a masterwork, run a business like a master, and quite often knows more than many wizards.  7,000 of the level 6 NPCs are warriors, quite often generals and members of special forces units at this level.  Such people are often equipped with magical weapons and armor, and their exploits are spoken of in song.

Another 5,000 of the elite NPCs are experts, the absolute greatest craftspeople, scholars, and musicians in the world.  These people are extremely well known national treasures, doubtless quite famous, at least in their home region.  Khorvaire has about 1,500 level 6 magewrights, who do the practical work of creating many of the magical wonders seen across the continent.  The contributions of magewrights are valued everywhere, even if their works pale in comparison to that of artificers.  Across the continent, there are 750 6th level aristocrats, many of which are in line to take control of an entire nation.  They are master negotiators, some of the wealthiest and best educated in the world.  Finally, about 750 6th level adepts perform the most powerful magic most people will ever see, shocking and amazing with their incredible, world shaking might.

Perhaps a tenth of 6th level members of the NPC classes might have one or two levels in a PC class.  This is extremely remarkable, however, and something that will truly define a person.  Monstrous humanoids of various sorts have a natural advantage in toughness and power, and about 30,000 equivelent to a level 6 character live on the continent.

Merely being a level two character is quite special.  Two thirds of the population never acheives this level of ability, although in many cases it simply represents an upwelling of talent.  Level three is where a person defines themself.  A level three individual now has another feat, and is simply noticably stronger than nearly anyone else.  Level four individuals are frighteningly remarkable, the kind of master that an average person may never forget meeting.  The deeds of a level five character may very well need to be recorded in the history books somewhere.  Such people are one in a hundred, and live remarkable lives.

As sixth level PCs, your characters are among the strongest people in the world, and likely have an amazing reputation.  Acheiving sixth level can take a lifetime, or it can be foisted on a character in a flurry of adventuring experience.  The only common thing between 6th level characters is their undisputable status as heroes.



This game uses the E6 rule, where character have a level cap of 6, and then gain feats for each 5,000xp gained afterwards.  Characters for this game will start with 26,000 xp, meaning that they are 6th level characters with one additional feat.  Abilities are to be generated using 42 point buy, and races of up to LA +5 may be selected in exchange for using a lower point buy.  (instead of the level adjustment.  Racial hit dice count against your PC class levels, but monster classes from Savage Species and Libris Mortis may be used.)  A base stat of 19 may be purchased for 20 ability points, and a base stat of 20 may be purchase for 24 ability points.

LA +1: 35 point buy
LA +2: 28 point buy
LA +3: 20 point buy
LA +4: 10 point buy
LA +5:  0 point buy

Characters receive 1/2 maximum hit points on each hit die roll, save for the 1st level hit die roll, on which they receive the maximum possible as normal.  Characters receive a starting wealth of 15,000 gp.   This wealth may be increased by trading starting xp for wealth at a 1:3 ratio, meaning each sacrificed experience point grants 3 gp.  A character wishing to start with additional experience may sacrifice starting gold for xp.  A character may also take NPC classes instead of PC classes, in exchange for 2,500 gp or xp for each NPC class level taken.  NPC class xp bonuses may not be traded for xp. The spellcraft skill is considered a class skill for all classes, and used to cast ritual magic.

Characters start each day with two action points, and gain an additional one at the end of each encounter.  The action point total resets to 0 when the character rests.  Most feats and abilities that increase the number of action points a character has give the character one additional action point per day, and an additional action point after every 4th encounter.

Material may be selected from any of the following books, but all non core material must note its source, with page number reference:

All three core rulebooks

Complete Arcane
Complete Champion
Complete Warrior
Complete Divine
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Adventurer
Complete Mage

Eberron Campaign Setting
Magic of Eberron
Faiths of Eberron
Dragons of Eberron
Sharn: City of Towers
Five Nations
Explorer's Handbook
Secrets of Xen'drik

Spell Compendium
Dragon Magic
Tome of Magic
Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords

Psionics Handbook
Complete Psionic

Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness

Frostburn
Stormwrack
Cityscape
Dungeonscape

Player's Handbook 2
Magic Item Compendium
Savage Species
Heroes of Battle
Book of Aberrations

Book of Erotic Fantasy
Netbook of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Portable Hole Full of Beer

In addition to the material listed above, players may also select from the following feats:

Ability Training (General)
Benefit: Choose one Ability; You gain a +2 bonus whenever you are making an Ability Check with that ability. This bonus does count when making a skill check using that ability, but not for any other use of that ability, such as spells per day, or hit points per level.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.

Ability Advancement (General)
Prerequisite: Ability Training in the same ability.
Benefit: Choose one Ability. You gain a permanent +2 bonus to that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.

Capstone Training (General)
Prerequisite: 6th level
Benefit: Choose one class feature you would gain if your level in a given class were two higher.  You gain that class feature, and qualify as a member of that class two levels higher than your current level for the purposes of qualifying for feats.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another class feature.  You may select a class feature from a prestige class, including one you have gained a class feature from via prestiege training.

Class Training (General)
Prerequisite: 6th level
Benefit: Choose one of your class features that improves as you increase in level.  That class feature improves as if you had gained levels neccesary to improve it, for example increased sneak attack damage, bonus feats, or acquiring improved evasion.  Iterative class features which increase every level are considered to improve as if you gained two levels.  This feat cannot enhance spellcasting in any way, save for spell like abilities gained as class features.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another class feature.  Class features gained through capstone training and prestiege training may be chosen for this feat.

Expanded Spell Knowledge [General]
Benefit: You learn 1 or more new spells known, with spell levels totalling to half of your caster level (round down, and treat a new 0th-level slot as 1/2). Thus, a sixth level Sorcerer could gain one 3rd level spell known, one 1st and one 2nd level spell, three 1st level spells, or 6 0th-level spells. This feat cannot provide spells known of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; each time you take it it provides
more slots.

Expanded Caster Stamina [General]
Prerequisite: Character Level 6th
Benefit: You gain 1 or more new spell slots, with spell levels totalling to half
of your caster level. Treat 0th level spells as 1⁄2. Thus, a sixth level Wizard could gain one 3rd level slot, one 1st and one 2nd level slot, three 1st level slots, or 6 0th-level slots. This feat cannot provide spell slots higher than you can already cast.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times; each time you take it it provides
more slots.

Metamagic Mastery (Metamagic)
Prerequisite: Metamagic feats (see below), Caster Level 6
Benefit: When you take this feat, select a metamagic feat.  You must have a number of Metamagic Mastery feats equal to one less than the level increase of your chosen metamagic, to apply this feat to a metamagic feat. For example, Empower Spell, which boosts the level of a spell by 2, has a prerequisite of 1 Metamagic Mastery feat. Split Ray, which has an increase of 1, would have no prerequisites. As a swift action once per day, you may apply this metamagic feat to a spell you cast with no adjustment to the level of the spell cast, or increase in casting time; for a spontaneous spellcaster.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, its effects stack. 

Prestige Training (General)
Prerequisite: 6th level
Benefit: Choose a prestige class you could qualify for by 9th level.  All special requirements for the class must already be met.  You gain a class feature that presige class gets at 1st level.  For the purposes of the capstone training and the ultimate mastery feats, you are considered to be level 1 in the selected prestige class.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another class feature.  You may only take this feat if you could qualify for the prestige classes you have abilities from simultaneously.

Ritual Knowledge (General)
Benefit: Your gain permanent knowledge of a number of levels of rituals equal to your level + your intellegence modifier.  Permenantly known rituals may be cast without need for a ritual schema. 
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects stack, though their effects do not increase retroactively if your intelligence or level increases.

Skill Savant (General)
Prerequisite: Skill focus in selected skill
Benefit: You gain a +2 untyped bonus to the skill you qualify for use with this feat.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects can be stacked a number of times equal to the ability modifier of the relevant ability for the skill.  The feat can also be taken and applied to different skills.

Ultimate Mastery [General]
Prerequisite: Capstone Training
Benefit: Choose one class feature you would gain if your level in a given class were up to four levels higher.  You gain that class feature.  You may select a class granted by a prestige class you have gained a feature from via prestige training.

Wondrous Rings (General)
Prerequisites: 6th level, Craft Wondrous Item
Benefit: You treat rings as wondrous items for the purpose of meeting item creation prerequisites. You must still meet caster level requirements for any ring you create.



Retraining:

Instead of gaining a new feat when a character's experience total is high enough, the character may choose to "retrain" on of his or her previous levels into a level of another class.  This may be done with levels in monster hit dice, as well as with normal classes.  The highest hit die and skill points between the two classes are used, while all other class features change to that of the new class.  The original class assignment should be noted on the character sheet.  The character may not reassign spent skill points, but may assign new skill points gained by switching to a class with a higher number of skill points freely as a typical multiclass character.

A character may switch levels between retrained classes by spending 1,000 xp and spending a day practicing and excercising to adopt different skills.  The highest level of a class is always retrained first, and a character may not use feats or spells he no longer qualifies for.

[The Great Triangle]

Ritual Spellcasting Rules:


Ritual Magic, commonly known as the Art of Thamuturgy, is the nitty gritty art of working magic to one's will.  All members of the common races have an affinity for ritual magic, but only a portion put in the effort to understand these magical principles.  Thamuturgy is fairly unique to the common races, and a significant reason for their dominance in Khorvaire.  Goblinoids, most Aberrations, Monstrous Humanoids, Giants, and Elementals are all incapable of ritual magic, though half orcs and shifters seem to manage, with some difficulty.  Of all the races of Khorvaire, Dragons seem to be the only ones who demonstrate an affinity for ritual magic, a fact particularly disturbing to dragons, and used as evidence for members of the common races wishing to claim their races are favored by the Gods. 

Outsiders often have great knowledge of ritual magic, but demonstrate little capability to use it.  Sages speculate whether they are incapable and study thamuturgy in honor of the gods, or are simply hiding their power from the common races.

All magic spells and psionic powers can be applied via the process of ritual magic.  A well trained individual can cast many spells ritually, even with minimal normative spellcasting talent.

Casting any ritual spell requires a ritual schema.  Ritual schemas most commonly take the form of scrolls, or carefully engraved dragonshards, and may be manufactured for half the market value of a scroll of the equivalent spell.  Schemas may only be used to perform a ritual, and even someone who knows the equivalent spell cannot copy a scroll from a schema.  Once used, the ritual schema crumbles into dust.

Anybody with access to proper sources of arcane information can create a ritual schema by making a Knowledge check with a difficulty equal to 10 less than the spellcasting DC of the ritual spell.  This process takes 24 hours, or 6 hours for someone with the scribe scroll feat.  Item creation feats can also reduce the time and cost involved.  The time needed to scribe a schema need not be spent all at once, but no more than a week must pass between the start and finish of creating the ritual schema.


Ritual Magic is divided into five major categories.  Gutter Magic, Mortal Magic, Giant Magic, Dragon Magic, and Divine Magic.  The categories are so named after the beings that can draw upon them. 

Gutter Magic:
Spell Level 0-1

Legality: Legal to use unlicensed anywhere.

Resources to Research: A decent sized book collection will do.  Most nobles keep such a collection around, and any self respecting magician has the necessary books to do gutter magic research around.

Cost of a Library: 1,000 gp


Mortal Circle Magic:
Spell Level 2-3

Legality: Requires a licence costing 500gp to use in urban areas, violations typically carry a fee of 250gp x spell level.

Resources to Research: A well stocked library is needed, but still within the reach of a private individual.  Most cities with a population over 5,000 have the necessary library, and the nation of Aundair has a sufficient library in all of its settlements with a population of over 1,000.

Cost of a Library: 25,000 gp


Giant Circle Magic:
Spell Level 4-6

Legality: Requires a license costing 3,000 gp to cast spells in rural areas, and a special permit costing 1,000 gp to cast a spell in inhabited areas.  Most permits are issued for one spell on a case by case basis, or rarely for casting a single spell repeatedly.  Violations carry a fee of 5,000 gp x spell level, and irresponsible giant circle magicians can be imprisoned in a sanitarium for the rest of their natural lives.

Resources to Research: The resources of a major university are needed to cast magic of this magnitude.  Most cities with a population of over 100,000 have such a university.  An outsider with hit dice of at least twice the level of the spell and an intelligence of 12 or higher can also impart knowledge of how to cast giant circle magic.  Ruins in Xen'drik often contain inscriptions that can be used to research rituals to cast giant circle spells.

Cost of a Library: 500,000 gp


Dragon Circle Magic:
Spell Level 7-8

Legality: Casting dragon circle magic is illegal in urban areas, and requires a special license costing 15,000 gp to cast in rural areas.  A spellcaster casting dragon circle magic within national territory must still purchase a permit costing 2,500 gp for each casting, to insure against possible damages.  Violations are a capital offense.

Resources to Research: Dragon circle magic is beyond the ken of most mortals.  Only two places in Khorvaire might be able to scribe Dragon Circle Magic.  The Library of Korranburg, and the Cloudpeak Academy.  The dragons of Argonessen have access to a great deal of Dragon circle magic, and it can also be explained by outsiders of 14 HD or higher with an intelligence of 18 or greater.

Cost of a Library: 4 million gp


God Circle Magic:
Spell Level 9+

Legality: Strictly illegal everywhere without special order of the local ruler.  Violations are a capital offense that could lead to being declared an international enemy of the peace.

Resources to Research: God circle magic can only be learned by the most difficult and desperate of means.  The only place on Khorvaire where it could possibly be learned is in the direct presence of the Silver Flame.  Outside of Khorvaire, it may be feasible to learn God Circle magic in a library, but getting access is a trial in itself.  Beings of 20 HD, such as Solar Angels, Fiend Lords, the Daelkyr, and Dieties themselves can teach God Circle Magic.

Cost of a Library: priceless

[The Great Triangle]

Casting a ritual spell requires a successful knowledge check to plan the ritual, followed by a number of successful spellcraft checks to successfully perform the ritual. 

The total number of successful rolls needed to complete the ritual is equal to the spell level of the ritual plus 1.  Each roll in a ritual is seperated by 10 minutes.  If the ritual spellcaster fails more spellcasting rolls than he succeeds, the ritual fails without result.  If two checks in a ritual fail in a row, the ritual fails catastrophically, resulting in bad effects proportionate in power to the spell being cast.  A character can take 10 during a ritual, except when casting spells of 7th level and higher.


The knowledge check to begin a ritual is determined by the type of spell being cast.

Knowledge(Arcana): Sorcerer/Wizard spells of the Abjuration, Evocation, Illusion, Transmutation, and Universal schools

Knowledge(Architecture and Enineering): Artificer Invocations

Knowledge(History): Bard Spells

Knowledge(Local): Assassain Spells

Knowledge(Nature): Druid Spells

Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty): Paladin and Blackguard spells

Knowledge(The Planes): Sorcerer/Wizard spells of the Conjuration and Divination Schools

Knowledge(Psionics): Psionic Powers

Knowledge(Religion): Cleric Spells and Sorcerer/Wizard spells of the Necromacy school

The base DC of casting a ritual spell is 20 for a 0th level spell, +5 for each additional spell level.  Spellcasting DCs can be affected by the following means; of special note, backlash is a mystical cost of the spell that occurs regardless of its success or failure:

Ritual Spellcasting DC Modifiers:


Casting Time:

1 round between checks: +8
1 minute between checks: +4
1 hour between checks: -1
Casting time is restricted (only during full moon, for example): -4
Casting time is severely restricted (only during lunar eclipse, for example): -8

Range:

Touch to close/close to touch: +2/-2
Close to medium/medium to close: +2/-2
Medium to long/long to medium: +2/-2
long to 1 mile/1 mile to long: +5/-2
1 mile to indefinate: +5

Area:

Doubling area/halving area (min 5 foot square): +3/-3

Target:

Unwilling target must be helpless (harmful spells only): -2
Limited targets (by HD, creature type, and so on; applies only once, cannot be used on spells that target self only): -3
Single target to multiple targets: +4

Duration:

Rounds to minutes/minutes to rounds: +2/-2
Minutes to hours/hours to minutes: +4/-2
Hours to days/days to hours: +6/-2
Days to permanent or instantaneous/permanent or instantaneous to days: +10/-4

Focus and Material Components:

Expensive material component (500 gp): -1
Expensive material component (5,000 gp): -2
Expensive material component (25,000 gp): -4
Expensive focus (5,000 gp): -1
Expensive focus (25,000 gp) -2

XP Component:

Per 100 XP (max 1,000 XP): -1

Extra Casters:

10 or fewer secondary casters: -2
11-100 secondary casters: -6
101 or more secondary casters: -10

Backlash:

Per 2d6 points of damage: -1
Caster is exhausted: -2
Per negative level caster gains: -2
Caster reduced to -1 hp: -4
Caster infected with disease: -3
Backlash affects secondary casters too (requires secondary casters): -1

Racial:  (not optional)

Caster is a Half Orc: +2
Caster is a Shifter: +4
Caster is a goblinoid: +5
Caster is Undead: +5
Caster has any warforged body feat other than psiforged: +5
Caster is a Monstrous Humanoid: +10
Caster is an Outsider: +10
Caster is a Lycanthrope: +10
Caster is a humanoid: +0
Caster is a Kalashtar: -1
Caster is a Living Construct: -1
Caster is an Elf: -2
Caster is a Gnome: -2
Caster is a Half Elf: -4
Caster is a Dragon: -5

Other:

+1 Caster level: +2
-1 Caster level: -1 (spell must have variable effects)
+1 saving throw DC: +3
-1 saving throw DC: -2 (spell must require a saving throw)
+1 power point used on spell (psionic powers only): +1
Inability to take 10 on casting checks: -3
A single failure results in the ritual failing (requires inability to take 10): -5
Ritual requires 1 less successful skill check (minimum 2): +2
Backlash doubled upon failure (requires backlash): -2
Ritual effects will be increased upon failure: -3
Casting Ritual requires casting equivelent spell: -10

[MasterMischief]

Thread drift: Sharn just screams Gotham City to me.  Some day, I will run a Fantasy/Supers mash-up in Sharn.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Fascinating!  I do not know what I want to be!

[Kunoichi]

...To be honest, the E6 rules never really appealed to me. ^^; Admittedly, they could be made to work a lot easier in Eberron than in any other world because few people make it past level one, and having levels in a PC class is called out as being extraordinary...  But at the same time, there are high-level NPCs around like Oalian, the 20th-level druid awakened tree, or just about any member of the Chamber, who are all pretty powerful dragons.  You have powerful enemies, too, such as Erandis Vol, the Lord of Blades, the Daelkyr...  Would they be impossible foes under the E6 rules, or would they be altered to fit in with the ruleset?

As far as the 'level grind' problem goes... why not just start at a higher level?  The Last War alone would have given adventuring characters plenty of chances to hone their skills.  Even characters who weren't directly in the fighting could have had plenty of opportunities for level advancement before the campaign starts.

[The Great Triangle]

Everything is scaled down to be appropriate to E6 characters.  Olian is still a 20th level druid, but because plants have a maximum of 0 HD, he's simply an intelligent object with all the spellcasting of a 20th level druid as spell like abilities, though he still cannot change forms.  Dragons are still massively powerful, but Dragons are mythic beings who still lose against the common races, due to the greater organization and magical artifice of the common races. 

Even Vol is only a 6th level Wizard with some really ambitious magical rituals, and the organizational might to pull them off.   The lord of Blades is also a 6th level artificer with some particularly leet magic items.  As a side note, I really hate how the 4th edition Eberron campaign book when and inflated all the levels of the characters to unbelievably high levels.  The Daughters of Sora Kell could now pretty much wipe out half of Khorviare if they actually cared to.  (and the rules of 4th edition allowed such tomfoolery)

The Daelkyr, however, are generally intended as impossible foes, though getting direct divine intervention or a convocation of dragons might ward them off. 

The scale down follows the following guidlines  (creatures of multiple types use the lowest HD cap for their type):

Creature Type:         Max HD:

Construct                    0
Ooze                          0
Plant                          0
Vermin                        2
Animal                        4
Humanoid                    6
Monstrous Humanoid     6
Magical Beast              8
Giant                         12
Undead                      12
Fey                           12
Dragon                       15
Elemental                   15
Outsider                     20
Aberration                  20

[Kunoichi]

...Yeah, from the sounds of things, E6 isn't quite what I'm looking for. ^^; Again, there's always the option of starting from a higher level, if you really don't like the 'level grind' of early levels in D&D.  Eberron's actually a setting that allows for plenty of action and intrigue even at low levels, though, so I don't really think it'll be a problem.

[The Great Triangle]

I have run a game of Eberron from 1st to 19th level, and find I simply don't like the High Level style of play.  The PCs tend to inevitably become boring invincible heroes, and the spellcasters tend to eclipse everyone else.

Still, I'm not going to force my playstyle on anyone, but that's what I want to run and if someone wants to run something different, I'd probobly by happy to play in it, since I love the Eberron setting.

[TheGlyphstone]

I've always been interested in E6, ironic considering I normally do exclusively high-level play (particularly spellcasters) -but I love Ebberon even more than I love high-level characters, so if there's space available, I'd definitely be in for this.

[Kunoichi]

True, that is something of a problem of 3.5 D&D in general.

I've actually heard that the 'sweet spot' for the game is around levels 8-12, to be honest.  Level 12 might be a good ending point for a campaign...

Ah well.  I'll still have to wait and hope to find somebody to run it, unfortunately. >>;

[PhantomPistoleer]

Argh, Kunoooo.  This could have been sweet!  42-point buy?!  :<

[Kunoichi]

I prefer 32 myself, to be honest, Phantom. >>; Also, I doubt he'd have let you be Gestalt...

[PhantomPistoleer]

Gestalt isn't a make-break, Kuno.  ;_;

This sounded almost perfect, aside from the fact that there wasn't much interest given by the womenz.

[Kunoichi]

Probably because I'm asking for someone to run the game, rather than offering to run it myself... >>;

That said, if more people show an interest in an E6 Eberron game, then I think you guys should go for it. ^^; I could probably be convinced to give it a shot as well, even if it's not quite what I'm looking for at the moment.

[Katina Tarask]

Well.  You certainly seem to know what you're doing, oh triangular one.

Though as for the whole, "casters rule, muggles drool," dichotomy of high-level D&D, the main problem there is that the Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Archivist, Artificer, and Erudite specifically are so tremendously powerful at high levels, while muggles kinda get the shaft.  Cutting out the best of the casters outright leaves a more reasonable, balanced remainder, while making Tome of Battle the standard for melee brings them up to snuff.  It can keep the dichotomy from getting too out of whack until levels 12-16 or so.

For me, levels 6-12 are the real sweet spot; I'd say ya kinda have to go a bit deeper to get into prestige class range so that some characters really blossom.

Hm... I can work with these rules.  But the question is, what can I work with them?  So many options, so little time.  I know I want something that can take advantage of those ritual rules, though in what capacity?  Hm... Think, think.

[Ixy]

If you're still game for running this, I'm interested in applying.  Although I am embarrassingly ignorant of Eberron, I'm really more interested in the concept and character interaction anyway.  Plus, I know that certain people will let me know if/when I screw something up.  *grin*

I'll read over that wall of guidelines to see if you have a solid character-creation method locked in.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I think I am going to submit a fighter.  ::eyes Terra suspiciously::

A... horseback specialist fighter. ::coughs::

[Kunoichi]

Well, looks like The Great Triangle has enough interest for him to run a game under the E6 rules, if he's still interested. ^^;

Even if I'm not playing, I know enough about Eberron that I'd be willing to help people with character concepts and backstories, if they want any help.

[TheGlyphstone]

If it does go off, I so totally want to actually be able to play an idea I've had bouncing around for a long time, a Warforged 'Warlock', whose invocations are all mechanical-based prototype improvements. Eldritch Blast? Wrist-mounted laser. Fell Flight? Jetpack. Breath of the Night? Smoke bomb dispensers. Walk Unseen? Cloaking device. Go go Gadget Warforged!

[Katina Tarask]

E6 is a different can of worms, Pistol; it cuts off the chunk of the game where conventional melee really begins to suck, keeping it to the 'just starting to lag' phase.  Though the ability to purchase additional feats in E6 tends to make Fighter specifically a comparatively poor choice.

For mounted combat, so long as you take care to keep a sufficiently powerful mount, the traditional problem of riding a living liability isn't so vast; get yourself a magebred heavy warhorse (this is Eberron after all), or possibly a magebred warbeast (MM2) heavy warhorse and it'll be plenty tough to keep from being a liability.

Then just pick up Spirited Charge and a few other charging toys (*Points at Shock Trooper [CW].*) and you're set.

Ixy: He does.  In rather extensive detail.  It's very nice.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Color me excited.  Kuno!  Help me develop my amazing horse rider. :o

[Kunoichi]

I've got one word for you, Phantom: Valenar.  The Elves of Valenar are known for horse-riding, among other things.

*notes that the Valenar Warhorse is a pretty awesome steed*

Of course, it's not something you can just buy. ^^; Rather, it's something to aim for further on down the line.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I don't really like to play as elves. :D

Maybe I should steer away from being a knight (since I already am one in two other campaigns!), so maybe I should be a rogue?  A scout?  Maybe even a ranger?

[Kunoichi]

Ah, but the Valenar are a little more... sword-happy than your typical elves. ;D

Hmm...  Ever tried out any psionic classes?

[PhantomPistoleer]

I am typically against having to learn another ruleset. :/

[Katina Tarask]

Psionics are cake.  I could teach you the main differences in, like, five minutes; way simpler than Vancian.

[Kunoichi]

^What she said.  It's easy to learn and pretty fun in its own right.

[Ixy]

I'm a bit stumped, for now.  Lots of choices in Eberron, but nothing's jumping out.  Mostly spellcaster classes, and with this system I'm a bit uncertain.  I'm thinking tiefling, human, or halfling... barbarian, spirit shaman, or warmage.  But then again, I'm not settled.  Suggestions are welcomed.

[Kunoichi]

Well, a halfling Barbarian or Spirit Shaman who's in House Ghallanda would certainly work quite well.  You could be from the Talenta plains and everything. ^^

As for Warmage, The Great Triangle did mention that the plot would involve graduates from the Rekkenmark Military Academy in Karrnath.  You could rather easily be one of those graduates if you wanted.  And Tieflings in Eberron don't tend to stick out too much.  Most of the continent of Khorvaire is a very cosmopolitan place, open and accepting of all sorts.

[Katina Tarask]

Well, I had a character statted out before lappy crashed and lost it.  :'(

Anyways, I'm thinking a hin with House Jorasco.  A Bard4/Dragonmark Heir using Capstone Training to reach Greater Dragonmark through the heir and Ultimate Mastery to get access to Improved Greater Dragonmark.  That alright, or would someone like that be of political significance beyond the scope of the game?

Oh, and by number-crunching, shouldn't 26000 XP be two extra feats?  15000 to get to level 6, then another 11,000 means we hit the 5k mark twice.

Now, questions.

Does the 42-point buy with the heightened cap subsume the extra attribute point at level 4, or do we still get that?

Are traits and flaws allowed?  If so, how many?

Bardic Sage, yay or nay?

And, probably for later, how would you rule Lingering Song (Complete Adventurer, page 111) interacting with Bardic Sage (if approved)?  Lingering Song explicitly sets the Bardic Music duration to one minute, twice normal for most Bards, but Bardic Sage has a base of 3 rounds.  Would it just stay as one minute, or would it be 6 or 8 rounds?

[The Great Triangle]

I'm still interested in running the game.  :-)  Since Tarrasque seems to be interested in the game, I'll go ahead and let her go ahead and make an OOC thread in Bondage: Small Groups, since that's probobly where the game will land.  Any character sheet submissions should be PMed to me.  I'm looking for about 5-6 characters for a game focused in the wastes of Karrnath and beyond. 

Your characters can be anything from seasoned Bone Knight warlords, to foreign mercenaries, to fresh graduates ready to raise hell. 

I might also be willing to consider applications for an assistant GM spot, since I'm not available to post terribly often, and could use someone willing to help me run combats briskly.  Most combat situations will probobly use the Declare Action/Resolve in Initiative Order, system of play, so that players don't have to bog down posting in initiative order.  Party splits might also be reccomended.

As for specific questions, the extra attribute point at 4th level is still there, you're correct in that you're getting two feats, and traits and flaws are prohibited.  (Though the bardic sage is okay.)  A member of House Jorasco with the greater Dragonmark is a perfectly acceptable character, although you do have to answer the question of why your character is in the Rekkenmark/Karrnathi military. 

The character creation system I'm using is designed so that you guys should be able to create any character you want, story wise.  The power limitation is an inherent limit on human ability in the setting, rather than me intentionally trying to hobble you. 

[The Great Triangle]

As an example of changes in the balance of power, here's a Great Wyrm Red Dragon statted up under my E6 rules.  It's extremely strong, but it has certain glaring weaknesses, and is really pretty easy if engaged with heavy magic or brilliant energy weapons. 


Great Wyrm Red Dragon, 15th level Paladin


HP: 240 (135 in human form)

AC: 41 (-8 size, +39 Natural)  Human Form: 23 (+2 Dex, +11 Armor)

Special Defenses: DR 20/Magic, Immunity to Fire, Frightful Presence DC 25, Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, SR 16

Special Attacks: Fire Breath 8d10, Spell Like Abilities (Locate Object, Suggestion, Find the Path, Discern Location, Spells as 9th level sorcerer; spell slots 6/8/8/8/6), Paladin spell slots 4/3/3/3, Smite Evil 4/day, Remove Disease 4/week, Lay on Hands, Turn Undead 11/day

Abilities: Str: 45  Dex: 10  Con: 31  Int: 26  Wis: 26  Cha: 26

Skills: Appraise +19, Bluff +19, Climb +35, Concentration +28, Decipher Script +14, Diplomacy +16, Disguise +26, Forgery +15, Gather Information +26, Intimidate +26, Knowledge (Religion) +20, Knowledge (Arcana) +20, Knowledge (History) +14, Knowlege (Geography) +11, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +10, Listen +18, Spot +18, Spellcraft +24

Feats: Multiattack, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Flyby Attack, Ritual Knowledge

Saving Throws: Fortitude +27 (+20), Reflex +11 (+13), Will +19

Attack: Bite +32 melee (4d8+34), or Crush +32 melee (4d8+34), or Tail Sweep +32 (2d8+17),  human form: Greatsword +24 melee (2d6+11)

Full Attack: 1 Bite +32 (4d8+34), 2 Claws +30 (4d6+17), 2 Wings +30 (2d8+8), 1 Tail Slap +30 (4d6+25), human form: Greatsword +24/+19/+14 (2d6+11)

Spells Known: 0: Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Ghost Sound, Mending, Arcane Mark, Open/Close.  1: Shield, Protection From Evil, Mage Armor, Identify, Charm Person (DC 19).  2: See Invisibility, Mirror Image, Eagle's Splendor, Spider Climb.  3: Dispel Magic, Haste, Keen Edge.  4: Polymorph, Lesser Geas

Rituals Known: Magic Circle Against Evil (Double Area, Affects only one Type, hours duration, DC 31)  Polymorph (Inflicts 10d6 damage on user, casting ritual requires casting equivelent spell, lasts for days, DC 35), Imbue With Spell Ability (DC 40), Commune (50,000 gp focus, 299 secondary casters needed, hours between checks, DC 32), Ressurection (hours between checks, inflicts 30d6 damage on caster, ritual effects increased with failure, DC 33)

Posessions: Full Plate +3, Two Handed Sword +4

[Katina Tarask]

A member of House Jorasco with the greater Dragonmark is a perfectly acceptable character, although you do have to answer the question of why your character is in the Rekkenmark/Karrnathi military. 

Point... I may or may not want to come up with a different character.  Could I have a little more background on where we're starting and what we can expect?  Since we're all fresh out of a military academy, I'm guessing we can expect a fair amount of relatively large-scale combat, possible alongside multiple NPCs?

Now that I think about it, the Jorasco idea may be unwise considering my limited knowledge of the setting and how to make things click in a way that makes sense.  I'll have to ponder it for a time.  And there are plenty of other ideas kicking around.  Like a Changeling MoMF, though it's a pain to get Wild Shape without all that natury baggage.  This'd probably take a Wild Shape variant Ranger, probably with a laundry list of other alternate class features.

The power limitation is an inherent limit on human ability in the setting, rather than me intentionally trying to hobble you.

Does that mean I could keep leveling 'til 15 if I rolled up a wyrmling dragon? :P

[Kunoichi]

Well, House Jorasco's central enclave is in Karrnath, so the Rekkenmark Academy would probably have a few House Jorasco personnel on hand to treat any injuries that come from training...

[TheGlyphstone]

Okay, I'm going to go with my Warforged Warlock idea, a unique experimental model built by Merric D'Cannith in his secret illegal creation forge.

Now I just have to figure out how your rules interact with gaining new Invocations.

[The Great Triangle]

At 6th level, a warlock can take least or lesser invocations, and they can take the class training feat to get another lesser invocation, and you can probobly take a custom feat to get additional lesser invocations.  The capstone training feat enables you to take a single greater invocation, though you'll probobly have to have in story justification if you want to try and get any more.

If you play a Dragon or Undead, you technically could get to the HD cap, but for practical purposes I'm going to limit non humanoid characters to level 6.  Most of them need more than a human lifetime to hit levels higher than 6, although undead are a slight exception.  (for them it's more about unholy power, which non evil undead won't benefit much from)

The party probobly will be engaging in some fairly large battles.  I'm thinking of having their first assignment be "Stop a malfunctioning warforged titan"  (something I do pretty often in Eberron, but it gives the PC's something to do)

[PhantomPistoleer]

How would you go about becoming a cavalier using these rules?

[TheGlyphstone]

At 6th level, a warlock can take least or lesser invocations, and they can take the class training feat to get another lesser invocation, and you can probobly take a custom feat to get additional lesser invocations.  The capstone training feat enables you to take a single greater invocation, though you'll probobly have to have in story justification if you want to try and get any more.

Okay, so Class Training replaces the rather pathetic Extra Invocation existing feat, while Capstone Training (Invocations) increases my effective level for what invocations I can pick from?

Class Training = additional invocation of anything up to the maximum I can already get (Lesser or Least at level 6).
Capstone Training would give me the class features of a level 8 warlock, in this case Fiendish Resilience.

I wouldn't be able to get any Greater invocations though, unless Capstone Training and Ultimate Mastery stack, to gain me a class feature of a level 12 Warlock, i.e. access to one Greater Invocation, and then Class Training would (theoretically) let me gain further Greater invocations? Dark Invocations would be permanently inaccessible, unless I could somehow take Capstone training (Invocations) once and Ultimate Mastery (Invocations) twice.

[Katina Tarask]

There be much to consider.  *Ponders.*

How would you go about becoming a cavalier using these rules?

Prestige Training, Capstone Training, Ultimate Mastery, Class Training.

[The Great Triangle]

Okay, so Class Training replaces the rather pathetic Extra Invocation existing feat, while Capstone Training (Invocations) increases my effective level for what invocations I can pick from?

Class Training = additional invocation of anything up to the maximum I can already get (Lesser or Least at level 6).
Capstone Training would give me the class features of a level 8 warlock, in this case Fiendish Resilience.

I wouldn't be able to get any Greater invocations though, unless Capstone Training and Ultimate Mastery stack, to gain me a class feature of a level 12 Warlock, i.e. access to one Greater Invocation, and then Class Training would (theoretically) let me gain further Greater invocations? Dark Invocations would be permanently inaccessible, unless I could somehow take Capstone training (Invocations) once and Ultimate Mastery (Invocations) twice.

Class Training only grants you one class feature at a higher level, but it does stack with capstone training and ultimate mastery to let you take a class feature that would be accessable by level 12.  (like greater invocations.)

(though class training wouldn't let you take another greater invocation, and dark invocations are right out, being beyond mortal ken.  You might be able to get powers on this level within play though, as rewards for particularly dangerous adventures or actions)

[TheGlyphstone]

Alright, just still a little confused, because a warlock's access to invocations of X level and the number of invocations it has could be two different class features.

Theoretically, I take the following feats:
Capstone Training (Invocations): +2 effective levels for my Invocations
Ultimate Mastery (Invocations): +4 effective levels for my Invocations.

I am considered a level 12 Warlock for purposes of choosing Invocations (giving me access to Greater Invocations), but do I also have the Invocations Known of a 12th level Warlock (7) or those of a 6th level warlock (4)? The New Invocation (Greater, Lesser, Least) ability at level 11 comes at the same level as the Invocations Known column increases from 6 to 7, in the same way that a Sorcerer gets 4th level spells known at the same level they gain 4th level spell slots, but they are considered two different features according to those custom feats.



Or am I reading it wrong, and Class Training alone would bump my Invocation access to 11th (Greaters), at which point I could take Capstone Training (Invocations Known) to actually learn a Greater Invocation, since Invocations Known increases from 4 to 5 at 8th level?

[Katina Tarask]

Capstone Training and Ultimate Mastery are for gaining class features, not advancing effective class level.  You could get more advanced class abilities, but you'd still be a 6th-level Warlock.

[TheGlyphstone]

Right, I just re-read them. So if I understand it properly now, Class Training will improve my Invocations ability from (Lesser or Least) to (Greater, Lesser, or Least), but not actually increase the number of invocations I know, since that's listed in a separate column. Which feat would give me more invocations known, Extra Knowledge?

[The Great Triangle]

Class Training advances your number of invocations known, and I'll let you take it multiple times (within reason) to raise the number of invocations known.  I'm considering changing the tag on that one to "can be taken multiple times; effects stack" although that might lead to a certain amount of strangeness. 

Still, nothing in your rule writing can help the players not reading them properly.  ;)

Hopefully these rules aren't too complicated to figure out.

[Katina Tarask]

Hm.  Go MoMF, burn some gold to get an extra feat, take Class Training three times and Capstone Training once, advancing Wild Shape and getting large/giant form, then romp around as a dire bear.  Brutal.  Effective.  Not very hard to break.

[TheGlyphstone]

...I'm completely lost, sorry. Class Training improves your existing class feature (in this case, Invocations) to the point where it increases in power - but is that from 6th to 8th (+1 total invocations) or from 6th to 11th (Lesser Invocations to Greater Invocations, with the accompanying increase in number known).

The first option would require being able to take the feat multiple times, since Invocations Known improves at 8th, 10th, and 11th level (when I can take a Greater Invocation).

The second option, combined with leaving the feat as unable to stack with itself, would be fine - I can't imagine needing more than 7 invocations, 1 of which would be Greater, 2 of which would be Lesser, and 4 of which would be Least. If I really needed more, Extra Invocation lets me get another one of any grade lower than my highest, so another Lesser or Least.

[The Great Triangle]

You could take it for either +1 Total Invocation or Lesser to Greater Invocations.  It's an exception to the rule that spellcasting cannot be improved by the feat since invocations are spell like abilities granted by class features.  (or at least close enough for my mind) 

Master of Many forms to dire bear seems perfectly okay to me, if a lbit ike something that would offend the Gatekeepers and other druids a little.  (where do you expect all these dire animals come from?  :-) )  Breaking your character isn't something you should put a lot of time in though, since my GMing style has always been to reward good roleplaying, quite often mechanically by letting players break rules that put them at least on the same level as optomizers.  (the basic philosophy is that an optomizer and an exceptional roleplayer are both putting a lot of time and effort into the game, but the roleplayer is doing something that makes the game more fun for other players, and should be mechanically rewarded.)

[Katina Tarask]

The dire bear thing was an example of what could be done with the ruling, not a plan for what I actually intend to do.  I'm sure there's worse available, but I'm probably not going to do a vast amount of digging.  I just need to nail down something I really want to play.

Other than Warforged Tantrist. :P

I am tempted to run another Artificer, but I already have two in two different games.

I don't suppose we could get Book of Erotic Fantasy added to the list for incidentals?  Reverse Gender is, like, my favorite spell ever.

[The Great Triangle]

Consider Book of Erotic Fantasy and Netbook of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge added to the available list of supplements.  You'll need to provide writeups of anything you take from those two though, since I don't have access to them.

[Katina Tarask]

The GUCK's in, too?  Whew... that has some totally ridiculous stuff I could have fun with.  I may have to go Wizard or Sorceress.  *Doesn't mention the feat that could let her cast Geas as a third-level spell.*

What's your ruling on the price on adding extra spells to a Wizard's spellbook?  The 50gp*Spell Level?

[The Great Triangle]

50gp x spell level sounds about right.  You'll also need to pay for a scroll of each spell you scribe or spend the money for a library of magic of the spell level you want.  The Educated feat enables you to have free access to a spell library full of spells up to the third level. 

Netbook of uck tends to be pretty silly, but I'll allow players to use rules from  should they want to.  These things can be considered to be part of the setting, but are generally regarded as silly.  Still, dragons probobly know how to cast some of these spells, and might even have levels in the incredibly stupid erotic prestiege classes.   

(it can be found here: http://carnal.orfinlir.de/)

[Katina Tarask]

Actually, the standard 50g*spell level is to obviate the scroll; that's the cost a friendly wizard charges to copy a spell from their spellbook rather than your buying the scroll.

Though I may have a better idea.  Beguiler.  After all, it's better to know your higher-level spells automatically than to go shopping for 'em.  Toss-up among human, changeling, and aasimar.

[The Great Triangle]

Ah, my mistake.  In that case, you can pay for the spells or pay up front to have a spell library or be a university graduate.

Aasimar doesn't fit the Eberron setting terribly well, but mostly because the celestials don't really do much in setting.  (the rekkenmark certainly wouldn't run away a qualified Aasimar though)

[Katina Tarask]

Mind if I just swap the Beguiler casting stat over to charisma?  It is the inferior casting stat, after all.  And how flexible are you with class skills?

And what's your stance on using Mindbender (Complete Arcane, page 55) telepathy to qualify for Mindsight (Lords of Madness: The Book of Aberrations, page 126).  Cool feat, but kinda crazy-powerful.  But being able to detect every mind within a hundred feet automatically plays quite well to being the team scout.

[The Great Triangle]

I'll let you have either Beguiler casting as charisma, or telepathy to qualify for mindsight. 

Both at once don't work together thematically, since being so charismatic that you can sense the minds of everyone around doesn't quite fit together as well as being smart enough to read the presence of minds.  :-)  Also, your mindsight will be limited to the range of your telepathy or 100 feet, whichever is less.

[TheGlyphstone]

Okay, cool. So as my three 6th level feats (1 for 6th level, 2 for bonus XP), I can take Class Training once to get Greater Invocations, then take Class Training twice more to actually learn two Greater Invocations. Or, if I'm limited to one Greater Invocation, take it one more to learn a Greater Invocation, then have a feat slot free.

Current build is looking at a Warlock 5/Binder 1. Fluffwise, he is a Warforged Mk.VII Experimental Modular Combat Unit, the prototype test unit for a special variant Warforged made by Merric d'Cannith. It'll call itself 'Mark' as a name, and be equipped with a large assortment of plug-in modules to match its current mission parameters. Yay refluffing!

[The Great Triangle]

Sounds good.  You're limited to just one greater invocation, the way the feats are written, and I'll hold you to that.  (although you can retrain your greater invocation in 8 hours for 1,000 xp)   Merrix isn't Karrnathi, but he's still crazy enough he could have sold one of his favorite/craziest designs to the Rekkenmark in exchange for more gold to do his blasphemous experiments. 

Still, if Mark starts malfunctioning, expect to have to track down Merrix's secret forge in Sharn to figure out what's going wrong.  :-)   (note: this isn't a punishment, just a plot hook)

[Katina Tarask]

Actually, Mindsight is explicitly keyed off of the telepathy range used to qualify, which is the Mindbender's 100' in this case.  Anyways, if it's one or the other, I choose intelligence with Mindsight.  (Though I would point to the Wilder for charisma-based brainomancy.  Or the Bard.  Or an enchantment-centric Sorcerer.)

Intelligence gives me gobs of skill points anyways.  I'll need those skills to stay useful against the mindless.  And as much as I want the bonus feat, I think I'll go with changeling.  I like changelings.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Okay!  My question is this:

The first level of the Cavalier class gets as its special features Special Mount, Mounted Weapon Bonus (Lance) +1, Ride Bonus +2 and Courtly knowledge.

Now, am I wrong in assuming that it would take four different feats to acquire all of these features?  If that's the case, do I pick up all four aspects and then move up to second level special features?

Also, is it possible to pick up prestige class traits from a number of prestige classes?  How?

[TheGlyphstone]

Works for me. :)

I suppose Class Training (Bind Vestige) is my next best option, for extra flexibility.

Would you allow the Fiendish Codexes as source material? Hellfire Warlock would be an awesome target for Prestige Training and Capstone Training.

[The Great Triangle]

Clarifications to book of erotic fantasy and netbook of uck material:

There is no appearance stat.  Appearance has no mechanical underpinnings, and anything that uses appearance uses charisma instad.  (though not vice versa)

The sex rules in the netbook of uck are strictly optional, for if you would like to roll dice while having sex.

There are no called shots, and therefore no "rack rule"

Chaste Virgins may not worship the Mockery.

Kundala must follow the Path of Light.

Disciple of Auluran class becomes the Disciple of Olladra class.

Divine Celibates must worship Dol Arrah.

Frenzied Disciples must be Seren Barbarians or Talenta Halflings.

Knot Binder of Kaladis class becomes the Knot Binder of Boldrei OR Knot Binder of Onatar class.

Sacred Prostitutes are not required to have minimum abilities or the sexually open society feet, but must worship Arwai, Kol Korran, the Keeper, or The Mockery.  Sacred prostitutes of the Mockery are required to be hideous in appearance.

Deities and Religions gain the following domains:

Arwai, Goddess of Love and Fertility:  Body, Sex, Midwifery
Auron, God of Knowledge: none   
Balinor, God of Nature: none
Boldrei, Goddess of Order:  Joining
Dol Arrah, Goddess of Sun, Sacrifice, and Chastity:  Denial
Dol Dorn, God of War and freedom:  None
Kol Korran, God of Wealth and Patron God of Prostitutes:  None
Olladra, Goddess of Luck and Pleasure:   Pleasure
Onatar, God of Fire and Forge:   Joining

The Devourer, God of Destruction and the Ocean, patron god of vorephiles:  None
The Fury, God of Rage, patron god of rapists:  Body, Sexual Domination
The Keeper, God of Death, patron god of pimps:  Joining, Sexual Domination
The Mockery, Goddess of Bloodshed and Betrayal, patron goddess of sadomasochists:  Body, Denial, Perversion, Seduction, Sex
The Shadow, Goddess of Magic and Meyhem, patron goddess of voyeurs:  Voyeur, Seduction
The Traveler, God of Chaos and Change, patron god of xenophiles:  Perversion, Seduction

The Silver Flame:   Denial

The Path of Light:  Body

Cult of the Dragon Below:   Body, Perversion, Midwifery

Names of the 13 Dark Rajahs:  (names in parenthisis are common alternate names)

Eldrantulku: (Eldranoth): Thought to be associated with the Daelkyr.  Fertility goddess turned to 12.
Glirjitsu (Graz'zt): Somewhat similar to Eldrantulku, corrupts societies from the inside.  Rajah patron of spies.
Jukuvex (Jubilex): Demon Lord of legendary hunger and agression.  Rajah patron of
Kashtarak: Name appears on dragon below scrolls, but nothing is known.
Kul Eshkifix (Ebulon): Air Lord of Elemental Evil
Kul Puashka (Pazuzu): Fire Lord of Elemental Evil
Kul Jaxinex (Azazel): Water Lord of Elemental Evil
Kul Jexifig (Eereshkigal): Earth Lord of Elemental Evil
Krakasha (Kostchtchie): Demon Lord of travel and fortune.
Oreshka (Orcus): Demon patron of the Yaun Ti.
Pezu Nekawa (Mephistopheles): Demon Lord of deals and pacts.
Vijixka (Vucarik): Demon Lord of arcane magic.

Names of the 6 Daelkyr Lords:

Dyrrnm, the Corruptor, Mightiest of All Daelkyr, Creator of Dolgaunts and Dolgrims, Who Lies Below, True Lord of the Eldeen Reaches.

Belashyrra, the Great Mother, Lord of Eyes, Creator of Beholders, Who Can Look Through the Eyes Of Any Living Creature.

Orlassk, the Master of Stone, Who Made Medusas and Basilisks, Whose Citadel Prowls the Depths.

Kyrzin, Prince of Slime and Ooze, Who Lives Beneath the Shadow Marches, Whose Corrupting Touch Created All Aboleths.

Illsensine, Sultan of All Minds, who created Illithids and Neogi alike, Whose Infinite Knowledge Spreads Madness Across the Planes.

Ghanadaur, The Patient One, Soveirgn of Darkness, Who formed Grell and Tsochar from the shadows.

[TheGlyphstone]

Choosing invocations now.

Could I combine the Eldritch Glaive invocation with Paimon's Dance of Death ability?

[Ixy]

Alright.  Two concepts... I'm a little infatuated with them both, for the moment.  I'm looking for development opportunities for these characters, so if you have suggestions, please share them, privately or publicly.  I would really appreciate it.

1) Drow Warmage, Fighter (don't hit me), or Necromancer
Her tribe having been driven into the ground by degenerate giants, this character's young life in Xen'drik would have been deeply traumatic.  She'd leave via the port at Stormreach in an attempt to escape "survivor's shame" and seek out the "civilized" world of Khorvaire.  She would have been actively recruited for academy training by a group of Karrnathian agents who recognized the potential of the young drow's innate abilities; in any case, they'd be attracted to the possibility of a drow ally in the event of expeditions deeper into the Xen'drik continent, but she'd also have the potential of military talent in any of the aforementioned classes-- it's a nation that relies on undead to add backbone to its military, every army needs magic artillery, and who couldn't use an extra slag-happy swordswoman?

The reason I'm vacillating in regard to the class is that the concept and personality could work for just about anything.  I want her to be Neutral in alignment, detached emotionally from others, a talented agent but a bit sadistic (though not randomly so).  She'd possess a clear moral code that doesn't easily fall into 'good' or 'evil', and take great pleasure from libertine acts of rebellion, dominance, subversion of authority, or just plain fun.

2) Halfling Barbarian
Just as suggested earlier.  I'm not terribly clear on how to bring a new twist to this concept-- the 'little pistol/big bang' cliche.  She'd be overcompensating, passionate and loyal to a fault, mindful of her behavior but easily swayed by her temperament.   I know it's shallow, but I want whatever character I try to play to be sexy, too, and I have a hard time accepting halflings as such... even nowadays, when they're basically human of reduced stature and build, I think I might find the concept a little freaky if the size difference is too pronounced.  A similar concept, though with less comedic results and ability 'uniqueness' would be to play this concept with a medium character who's just quite petite-- elven, human, half-elven, tiefling, etc.  I'm not as clear on how they'd fit into the world, though, but I'm working on it.

Forgive the 'spam' here.  I'm just excited about the setting and the group coming together, so I'd like to be involved and I'm WAY over my head mechanically.

[Katina Tarask]

I'd advise against a necromancer for the simple reason that you can't really be a necromancer.  At least, not in the minion sense.  Animate Dead is fourth-level, so unless you use a lot of rituals, it's out of bounds.  Otherwise, Rebuke Undead is your only source of minions.

Warmage takes work.  The class has a nasty habit of sucking.  Pick yourself a good spell for Arcane Thesis (PHB2) and it can give you an advance in damage that actually matters.  Though I'd suggest Wu Jen (Complete Arcane) instead; a fire Wu Jen with Arcane Thesis: Fireball could have a CL10 Fireball, then apply Searing Spell at no cost to bypass oh-so-common fire resistance/immunity.

Fighter doesn't get anything from being drow.  A more martial Rogue or a Warblade would be better suited for capitalizing on the drow's benefits.

For the Barbarian, you so totally need a badass riding dinosaur.  Grabbing Whirling Frenzy and Shadow Blade would be a good idea to make up for halflings' shortcomings as Barbarians.

[Kunoichi]

*opens up the ECS*

Barbarian

Despite the advanced civilization that dominates Khorvaire, barbarians live in several places both on that continent and in nearby lands.  Human, orc, and half-orc barbarians emerge from the Shadow Marches and Demon Wastes.  Halfling barbarians ride the Talenta Plains.  Human, half-elf, and shifter barbarians fill the Eldeen Reaches, and isolated groups of elf, dwarf, and even gnome barbarians live there as well.  Darguun harbors some bugbear barbarians, and Droaam is home to barbarians of other monstrous species.  Some of the wilder warforged that roam the Mournlands take up the barbarian class as well.

Beyond Khorvaire, tribes of human barbarians live on the northern shores of Argonessen and the nearby island of Seren, serving the dragons they revere.  Finally,stories abound of children stranded in Xen'drik and raised by wild beasts or savage humanoids, giving rise to another source for barbarian characters.

[Ixy]

I appreciate it.  Hopefully, I'll have something solid by this weekend.

[The Great Triangle]

Yay, I posted teh OOC thread! 

https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=52661.msg2445588#msg2445588


There's also a character sheet and xp thread, if you can find where it has been carefully hidden.  I'm intending to run the game with a main game thread limit of 10 posts per player per week, though in character threads you can do 1 on 1 type activity to your heart's content.  The way I'm running the game, 1 post should equal 1 round of combat, which should keep things moving reasonably briskly.

I may or may not have initiative rolled every round.  It's a rule which is superbly clunky in tabletop, but works well online.

[The Great Triangle]

Some thoughts on various cultures in Eberron and sexuality:


The Five Nations:


Karrnath:

Monogamy and marriage are a very strong tradition in Karrnath.  The Blood of Vol took that tradition and cranked it up to 11, adding the theme that sexual domination was the best way to ensure monogamy.  The Blood didn't exclusively advocate the domination of men over women, but men tended to end up on top most of the time.  Bondage gear such as handcuffs, nipple clamps, bit gags, spider gags, butt plugs and chastity belts are widely available in Karrnath, though one typically has to go to the local temple of Vol or less reputable tanners to get them.  Owning bondage gear is considered shameful in Karrnathi society if one is not married, though couples are often given a generous amount of sex toys at their wedding.  Openly displaying such objects, even for a married individual, is often considered an open declaration of membership in the semi illegal religion of the Blood of Vol. 

Contraception is widely available in Karrnath, but very underground.  Every child in Karrnath is taught where you can go to get contraception in Karrnath around puberty.  (usually through various midwives living on the fringe of society.)  A woman in Karrnath who becomes pregnant out of wedlock either has her wedding discreetly scheduled, or it prevailed upon to drink an extremely large dose of poison.  If a Karrnathi woman has to do this, the father of the child, if he can be found, will be challenged to a duel by her most martially inclined relative.

To bear a bastard in Karrnath is unthinkable, due to the value Karrns place on ancestry.  Bastard children are quite often abandoned, although goblin tribes, shifters, traveling circuses, and various cults tend to take in the steady stream of Karrnathi bastards.  Karrnath has no orphanages.  If both parents of a child die, the child is transferred to relatives.  Karrnathi genealogy is sufficiently in depth that about 2/3rds of the nation would have to die before children wouldn't have anywhere to go.  Adopting an orphan is considered an honor.

Homosexuality is considered very normal and healthy in Karrnathi society.  Children are encouraged that homosexual sex is completely without risk of pregnancy, and homosexual relationships among the young are generally looked upon as positive.  Homosexuality in Karrnath is most closely associated with the military.  Within the enlisted ranks, soldiers are kept in gender segregated units, but allowed to engage in homosexual acts on their own time.  An individual over the age of 40 who is not married will generally be assumed to be homosexual in Karrnathi society. 

Xenophilia is frowned upon in Karrnath, though it is much remarked upon.  Having a non human in one's ancestry is considered a mark of shame, but also quite often becomes a public fact.  Karrnath has an emerging class of shame generated by people who copulated with the undead during the reign of the Blood of Vol.  (Many types of undead can have children, although the risk of birth defects is high.  Such children often have an affinity for blood, extremely pale skin, and persistently poor vital signs.) 


Thrane:

Thrane is a highly monogamous society, much like Karrnath.  However, the Thranish do not value Mairrage so much as they value romance.  Mutual affection and love between two people are considered the highest romantic ideal of Thrane, and the literature of the nation resounds with stories of star crossed lovers traveling the world together.  The Church of the Silver Flame recommends abstinence, but accepts the value of a deep sexual bond.  Sex toys are not generally available in Thrane, but the nation does have some of the most erotica and practical nonfiction on the subject of sex of any nation on Khorvaire.

Homosexual relationships are condoned by the Church of the Silver Flame, but homosexuals often encounter prejiduce in some of the less dense parts of Thrane.  Many heretical sub sects of the Church of the Silver Flame pervert the holy texts to prosecute homosexuals, though the Paladins of the Church do what they can to minimize these persecutions.  Most homosexuals in Thrane keep their love discreet, sometimes even declining to marry, for fear of prejiduce.


Aundair:

Aundair is sometimes called the "land of a thousand delights."  Of all the people on Khorvaire, the Aundairians have put the most effort into using magic to improve their sexual experience, and have accomplished some truly impressive feats of mystically enabled hedony.  The general attitude of the Aundairians is that anything goes for the young and beautiful, and the nation notably does not criminalize any form of xenophilia.  An Aundairian noble is expected to eventually settle down and marry, but this can wait until his land holdings are running well and highly efficient. 

Aundair is a fairly heteronormative society, blanching at the homosexual military tradition of Karrnath, the romantic ideals of Thrane, and the flamboyant gay culture of Breland.  Homosexuals in Aundair are looked down upon as uncivilized brutes, and one can be thrown out of any number of Aundairian secondary schools for even suspected homosexual tendencies.  Aundairians' negative impression of homosexuals is guided principally by Karrnath's culture, and any discussion of homosexuality with an Aundairian is likely to become a referendum on Karrnath.


Breland:

The nation of Breland is notable for its practice of serial monogamy.  Honor, lineage, and dowry aren't factors in Brelish society, so the Brelish often marry and remarry willy nilly looking for happiness.  Having children out of wedlock is still frowned upon, but it's just another thing that people end up doing.  Breland has a very sexually open society in the big cities, with the biggest red light districts in all of Khorvaire.  Brelish sexuality is showy, flashy, and often incorporates toys.  The Brelish have imported rubber from Xen'drik, refined leathermaking to a truly fine art, and developed countless clever alchemical balms to improve sexual experience.

The gnomes of Zilargo are even more clever in their application of with and artifice to sexuality, and often sell their wares in Brelish (and world) markets.  The smiling gnomish sex toy merchant is a stock character in bawdy Brelish comedies, and the rest of the world blushes at the things Breland considers routine.  Through clever experiments with wax, the Brelish have even been able to make a material similar to latex for use in bedroom wear.   

Breland has a thriving gay culture, and homosexuals in Breland are known to greatly enrich the theater of the nation.  They aren't quite accepted, and the culture tends to influence people's perceptions of homosexuality across Khorvaire, but most Brelish homosexuals consider themselves better off than their counterparts in Karrnath, who are viewed by society as being in a state of permanent adolescence. 

[Ixy]

aaaalright... I have a very rough draft of a Halfling Barbarian.  Without many texts, it's difficult to proceed with confidence, so thank you for your patience.  I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

1) Are Bloodstrikers too big for a halfling to use as a mount?  Would you prefer/recommend a clawfoot or some such?
2) Do the same formulas from the 3.5 players' guide/SRD apply to monetary cost of enhanced magical properties on Eberron-based items?
3) How hung up are we on Charisma's relation to Appearance again?  I know you mentioned it, I just wanted to clarify.  It's fantasy, damnit, and I want to play something shmexy.

I am still bandying about some other concepts, from espionage/government agent type to a half-giant barbarian (I know, I'm a dork.)  I just think a half-giant, half-drow with a REALLY fucked up early life in Xen'Drik would be fascinating to play... something about this setting just seems to pluck at the desire to do something darker, you know?  Not balls-out evil, per say, but definitely shadier characters, more complex motives, etc.

[The Great Triangle]

aaaalright... I have a very rough draft of a Halfling Barbarian.  Without many texts, it's difficult to proceed with confidence, so thank you for your patience.  I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

1) Are Bloodstrikers too big for a halfling to use as a mount?  Would you prefer/recommend a clawfoot or some such?
2) Do the same formulas from the 3.5 players' guide/SRD apply to monetary cost of enhanced magical properties on Eberron-based items?
3) How hung up are we on Charisma's relation to Appearance again?  I know you mentioned it, I just wanted to clarify.  It's fantasy, damnit, and I want to play something shmexy.

1. Bloodstrikers aren't a traditional mount for Talenta halflings, so you'll probobly have to blow a feat on being familiar with riding one. 

2. Magical items cost the same in Eberron.  With the ritual magic system making it incredibly easy to cast magecraft I'm willing to not count the cost of mastercraft weapons and armor in magical equipment.  You can also have mastercraft items for an additional 50gp, since they're so easy to make.

3. Charisma has NO correlation with physical appearance.  Charisma simply influences how good a character is at speaking and interacting with others.  An uncharismatic but attractive character might not be able to capitalize on his or her looks (he or she might wear clothes that either hide assets or show way too much skin without actually being sexy, for example.)  but could still be totally smoking hot.  In summary, a not so attractive but charismatic character usually comes off as sexier than an uncharismatic bombshell, but even a charisma 3 person can be absolutely perfect appearance wise.  (of course, he or she would probobly be drooling, moody, smelly, and unbelievably unpleasant)  I'm sure you know someone in real life who's really attractive but not good at being sexy.

[Ixy]

I sure hope this game is still on. 

I'll beg... would begging help?

*edit*
The reason I say this is because I've borrowed 2 books on Eberron and, ok, it's overwhelming as hell, but I'd really love to play it with a good group.  Some of you guys I do not know in even the slightest regard... but The Great Triangle seems exceptionally competent as a DM, and I know Tarrasque, Kunoichi (even though you're not certain about E6), and Phantom can roleplay well. 

Now, I'm not exactly god's gift to rp, and some people hate my "dramatic punctuation bullshit", but-- fuck, have you SEEN some of the stuff that passes for roleplay in a D&D game?   Three-line dribbles of disjointed text with the coherence of the translated text from Zero Wing?  If some of the people who've expressed interest are, as I said, STILL interested, then we could have a great game on our hands.  If a couple have dropped, we could recruit a couple more.

Any chance?  Like I said, I know I'll require some mechanical wrist-slapping or subtle kicks-in-the-ass for not knowing canonical Eberron, but I'm willing to give this one some real time.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I've decided to instead play a fighter named the Prince of Orphans, I am going to play a journalist Factorum. :D

[PhantomPistoleer]

Oh!  And I won't be around until Monday. :o

[Katina Tarask]

Been a bit busy.  And I'm still trying to decide what I really want to play.

What exactly do we have so far?  Factotum, Barbarian.  Did Kunoichi come to any sort of decision?

[Kunoichi]

...I'm not playing. ^^; I was just helping people work out character concepts...

[Katina Tarask]

Oh.

Who's even in this game, then?  Just three people?  'Cuz if so, it may be a good idea to start with a closer-knit group.

[TheGlyphstone]

I'm still here, but I've been real busy lately so my sheet's only about half complete.

[Katina Tarask]

What are you making?

[TheGlyphstone]

A Warforged Warlock with invocations refluffed as mechanical modules.

[The Great Triangle]

I'm perfectly around to run the game, though I haven't been poking people to get it going just yet.  Please post a character in the character section if you'd like to play.  (or at least post into the OOC of the game so I can know to poke you if it comes to that.

[Katina Tarask]

I can't remember the last time I played a Cleric, so I'm gonna go with that.

If my Cleric's devoted to the Sovereign Host as a whole, does that mean I can pick from any of the collective deities' domains?

I'm also considering Cloistered Cleric, if there are no objections.

[Kunoichi]

If your Cleric's devoted to the host as a whole, then yes, you can pick from any of the collective deities' domains.  Or, that's the default rules, anyway. ^^;  As I recall, there's a Sovereign Host Cleric prestige class that lets you get even more domains from the pantheon, as well...

[The Great Triangle]

You can be a cleric of the entire pantheon.  The Gods of the Sovereign Host actually encourage this (or at least the community of faith in the religion does, to promote harmony between the followers of different gods)  You can freely pick any domain within the host, and if you're a soverign speaker, you can pick up to 5 additional domains with feats later on.  (one at level 6, one with class training, one with prestige training, one with capstone training, and one with ultimate mastery)

Of course, you only get one extra 3rd level domain spell per day from your prestige training, so you win some and you lose some.  Sovereign Host clerics are strongly opposed to followers of the Blood of Vol, but not as much as clerics of the Silver Flame.  They also tend to distrust clerics of the Dragon Above and of course the cults of the Dragon Below.  Priests of Eberron (druids) are generally considered dangerous scum by followers of the host, though druids of good alignment get a pass.  Obviously, followers of the Dark Six may very well be worth summary execution.

If you play as a cloistered cleric, you won't gain any additional spells on your list of spells, but you can freely take one additional domain (instead of the knowledge domain) and all spells on your domain spell list count as being on your cleric spell list.

[Katina Tarask]

Bien, bien.

I may use prestige training to grab some extra domains through Sovereign Speaker later, but for now, all my feats are spoken for.  Metaphysical Spellshaper and Persistent Spell coming together for such fun toys as persistent Lesser Vigor (though I have to eat a painful six points of ability damage somewhere to do it).

Preliminary sheet (work in progress)

[The Great Triangle]

Yay!  An actually annotated character sheet!  I wants to hug and kisses it. 


;D

[Katina Tarask]

Well... you did say to annotate. ^^U

By the way, am I allowed to apply metamagic on spontaneously converted spells (with the standard casting time boost)?  Like, use my spontaneous healing to convert a cantrip to a transmitting kiss CLW.

[The Great Triangle]

You're allowed.  :-) 

Asking people to annotate is actually just so I can deny any character sheet I like.  Nobody actually fully annotates their, so I can simply reject a character sheet on the basis of not being annotated.  (It doen's particularly look like I'll need to make a lot of rulings in your case though, since what you're going for is fairly modest.  It's the somewhat wacky ability doom combos and methods of making a character that can literally do anything I'm more nervous about.)

[TheGlyphstone]

Here's me? Forgive my choice of character portrait, it was one of the first things that showed up when I browsed my picture archives for 'Robot'. :)

I think I caught everything that needed annotations, though it was easy since I built it entirely with Core, Complete Arcane and MMIII (my copy of MMIII can be Ctrl-F, my copy of the ECS can't). On the other hand, I basically had to annotate everything anyways, since without it you'd have no clue what any of my abilities were. :D

The only dispensation I'll need is taking Eldritch Cone and Eldritch Spear as a single Class Training feat, though I'm hoping you'll be fine with it since they meet the qualifier you required, when previously discussed, of being redundant with each other or one of my existing invocations, and giving me a short-range, medium range, and long-range application of my only weapon.

[Ixy]

Feedback is welcomed.  http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=168414.  I'm straying away from the halfling barbarian "just a bit" with this one 
When I get a little more time tonight, I will be writing description and backstory... I do have a somewhat plausible explanation for being so far out of Xen'Drik.

[The Great Triangle]

Looks good.  I don't see you applying the half giant racial template though.  (it's in the expanded psionics handbook, and will run you another +1 level adjustment, though you'll get more weapon damage from their abilities) 

As for why your character is out of Xen'drik, "hired as a mercenary" is a good explanation as any for your character's backstory. 

I'm not familiar with your character's patron diety.  Is it some strange Drow diety?

[Kunoichi]

Half-giant isn't a template, actually.  It's an entirely seperate race, originally from the Dark Sun campaign setting. ^^; The default explanation it has for being in Eberron is that it's a slave race created by the Inspired messing around with Giant stock.  With Riedra sending diplomats, ambassadors and shipments of various trade goods over to Khorvaire, though, there are a few that have escaped and are running around free, mostly in Stormreach, but seeing as Karrnath is relying on Riedran grain to keep its people fed, I'd imagine there are a few half-giants running around there, as well.

And yeah, Vulkoor is a deity worshipped by many of the Xen'drik Drow, though individual tribes tend to differ in how they worship him.

[Ixy]

Half-giant isn't a template, actually.  It's an entirely seperate race, originally from the Dark Sun campaign setting. ^^; The default explanation it has for being in Eberron is that it's a slave race created by the Inspired messing around with Giant stock.  With Riedra sending diplomats, ambassadors and shipments of various trade goods over to Khorvaire, though, there are a few that have escaped and are running around free, mostly in Stormreach, but seeing as Karrnath is relying on Riedran grain to keep its people fed, I'd imagine there are a few half-giants running around there, as well.

And yeah, Vulkoor is a deity worshipped by many of the Xen'drik Drow, though individual tribes tend to differ in how they worship him.

Yes and yes.  I opted to go with the more expensive +2 LA Drow race rather than half-giant.  I've been very indecisive... sorry ;)

The Eberron PHB states that most assume Vulkoor, the Drow's patron Scorpion deity as a substitute for Lolth, is actually a different aspect of The Mockery, but Shadows of Xen'Drik hints that, while this may be true, no one (mortal) is really certain.  I'd rather think that the nature of the deity is up for speculation, because I don't intend to play an evil character... if he is evil, she might be up for a very dangerous denomination change if she starts functioning in a generally "good" manner.

I think if I were to go with the half-giant barbarian idea, it would be a very different character, but I can still give that route a shot if you'd like to see a draft of that kind of character.  I realize that rangers are kind of 'nerfed' in 3.5, especially with 2 levels of rogue to dilute the progression down the fighting style.  But if kept as-is, I'd need to review my saves to make sure they're right, add an animal companion, and I'd be ready for a final draft.

Agreed regarding the 'mercenary' template, but she'll have to have some traumatic background event to justify separating from her family/tribe/clan, and I was thinking that some deep-delving uncovered a hotbed of magic dynamite that decimated their numbers and 'poofed' the survivors to the Boneyard in the Talenta Plains, where the rest were made playtoys for some nasty aberrations... only survivor, no family left to live for, she's now solo and carrying a BIG chip on her shoulder.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I posted this in the OOC Character Sheet thread, but, uh, there's really nothing happening over there.

So:

Okay...

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=168213

I think I made my character correctly, but it might be a combo killer, as you sort of said (Factorum/Marshal).  I want him to be like the kid from Almost Famous, like a journalist wunderkind with a penchant for free-running.  So, um, he'd be like the kid from Almost Famous and the kid from City of God, meshed together, but a bit pushy, like Lois Lane, with a desire to a) provide a cover story and b) tell the truth, no matter what.

As you can see, my character is -not- a much-of-anything class, except that he's a skill monkey.  I imagine that he's covered a number of stories in the last two years (he started when he was 16), and acquired precious knowledge by spending a lot of time interviewing interesting people and researching stories in archives tucked away in dragonmarked houses.

Physically, he is something of an every man.

[The Great Triangle]

If you'd like, you can apply the effects of both the drow and half giant races.  Actually, I'd prefer you did it that way, since I find it strange that you're a half giant with no mechanical differentiation from a drow. 

How devout is your charater?  The local temples of the Mockery would probobly accomidate your character's religious sensibilities, although temples to the Shadow might also work.  Given the Llolth esque nature of the religion, Blood of Vol might also appeal to your character.  If you'd rather not piss off the local preist of the soverigns, of course, you could always claim to worship one of the host.  (Probobly Dol Dorn, or whatever the Thor alike in the pantheon is.)

[Ixy]

If you'd like, you can apply the effects of both the drow and half giant races.  Actually, I'd prefer you did it that way, since I find it strange that you're a half giant with no mechanical differentiation from a drow. 

How devout is your charater?  The local temples of the Mockery would probobly accomidate your character's religious sensibilities, although temples to the Shadow might also work.  Given the Llolth esque nature of the religion, Blood of Vol might also appeal to your character.  If you'd rather not piss off the local preist of the soverigns, of course, you could always claim to worship one of the host.  (Probobly Dol Dorn, or whatever the Thor alike in the pantheon is.)

Honestly, I'm pretty good with playing a full-blooded Drow at this point without the psionics, strength and con buffs, and size rules.  No need to incorporate a half-giant background at this point-- I'll just stick with Drow if you approve. 

I think my character would be generally devoted to Vulkoor and would be very skeptical of anyone who tries to correlate him with the Mockery.  She comes from a world where the Drow are fighting for their lives aboveground AND below, and for someone to tell her that her god is a conniving evil bastard who wants to overthrow the balance would make her a little confused... she believes he's the source of the overthrow of tyrrany and that he loves his chosen people for their fierce spirits and indominatable will.

I agree, it would be good to have a "public" religion for her, and she'd have learned to hide her devotion to Vulkoor out of trial and error.  She has no wish to be a martyr; she'd rather be free.

[The Great Triangle]

I'd really rather that you at least gave your character large size, +2 constitution, and either -2 charisma or -2 intelligenct to reflect your giant heritage.  Nothing on your character sheet so far reflects the idea that you are a half giant, which makes your race selection a little strange.  It would take about two seconds to revise your character to just being a drow.  :-)   

If your character doesn't want to publically worship Vulkoor, she'd probobly be well off simply not wearing a holy symbol and avoiding the subject of religion.  That should generally keep her from any trouble, and Karrnath as a whole tolerates secularism.  (mostly as a reaction against the excesses of the church of Vol.)

[Kunoichi]

Technically speaking, the Blood of Vol as a religion isn't really prone to excess. ^^; The Order of the Emerald Claw is, but as far as most people know, that's a knightly order-turned-terrorist group with no relation to the Blood of Vol whatsoever.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Triangle, can I get a yay or nay on my factorum?  I'd like to know whether or not I'll be char-building tonight. :o

[Ixy]

I apologize for the confusion.  I want to play a drow.  I didn't make a half-giant this time at all, nor incorporate half-giant into this character concept in the least.  I want this character to be all giant-hating, 5 foot-tall ball of meanness drow, through and through.  What I said about the half giant in my most recent posts was just speculation.  I like this character, a plain drow, but will revise it if you want.

[The Great Triangle]

I apologize for the confusion.  I want to play a drow.  I didn't make a half-giant this time at all, nor incorporate half-giant into this character concept in the least.  I want this character to be all giant-hating, 5 foot-tall ball of meanness drow, through and through.  What I said about the half giant in my most recent posts was just speculation.  I like this character, a plain drow, but will revise it if you want.

That's just fine.  :-)  Must have made a mistake in filling out your character sheet.


And phantom, I'll go ahead and approve your character concept, pending any dispute from other players. 

Technically speaking, the Blood of Vol as a religion isn't really prone to excess. ^^; The Order of the Emerald Claw is, but as far as most people know, that's a knightly order-turned-terrorist group with no relation to the Blood of Vol whatsoever.

It's true that the Blood of Vol didn't slaughter people in the street, but they did arrange a majority of mairrages, turn people into vampires, put the population into virtual slavery as undead snacks, and send those creepy undead legions marching from place to place.  That's generally a pretty bad list of things to happen in a country, even if they're not the kinds of cartoonish super villainy that the Dark Six would perpetrate if their religion ever got control of an entire major country.

[Katina Tarask]

(It doen's particularly look like I'll need to make a lot of rulings in your case though, since what you're going for is fairly modest.  It's the somewhat wacky ability doom combos and methods of making a character that can literally do anything I'm more nervous about.)

I don't suppose this would be a good time to mention that Rin can grant a +12 to charisma for six hours (twelve or twenty-four at the cost of some ability damage, and +18 if I decide to pick up Empower Spell later).  Though we don't have anyone who could really take advantage of it, unless our robot has some nice save-or-blahs.  [This being through Transmitting Kiss used to cast Beauty's Caress in conjunction with the maximize rod.  Added bonus; the subject becomes superhumanly hot.  Sexy robo a go-go!]

Though that doesn't compare to some of the crazy stuff I could pull with the higher two Transmitting feats.  Geas as a third-level spell through Transmitting Orgasm.  Oi.  Yeah, that's a gamebreaker.

Though as Rin currently stands, there are some interesting constraints.  Transmitting Kiss is relatively tame, and using that for her better support spells means no self-casting, and even self-healing becomes more difficult, while Metaphysical Metamagic means taking ability damage to pull off some of the bigger stunts, making it a rather self-sacrificing build.  Good for support.  That first-level Suggestion is just a bonus, if not as worthy of maniacal laughter as third-level Geas.

By the way, is there any way to advance skills from here on in?  Like, buying 'em at a hundred XP a pop or something?

[Kunoichi]

I don't know anything about the arranging of marriages part, but from what I've read, the Blood of Vol views undead as martyrs who've sacrificed their chance at true divinity in order to act as champions in the fight against death.  Likewise, Karrnathi Undead Regiments are viewed by the population at large as national heroes who fight on for the sake of the country even in death.

As for the undead snacks part, blood for the vampires to drink is freely given by volunteers.  I don't recall ever reading anything about anyone ever being forced to give blood, or anything involving slavery in Karrnath.  Well, except where Warforged are concerned, anyway. ^^;

*can give a link to where Keith Baker himself has given out information on the Blood of Vol, if you'd like*

[The Great Triangle]

I don't know anything about the arranging of marriages part, but from what I've read, the Blood of Vol views undead as martyrs who've sacrificed their chance at true divinity in order to act as champions in the fight against death.  Likewise, Karrnathi Undead Regiments are viewed by the population at large as national heroes who fight on for the sake of the country even in death.

As for the undead snacks part, blood for the vampires to drink is freely given by volunteers.  I don't recall ever reading anything about anyone ever being forced to give blood, or anything involving slavery in Karrnath.  Well, except where Warforged are concerned, anyway. ^^;

*can give a link to where Keith Baker himself has given out information on the Blood of Vol, if you'd like*

I view the idea of undead as Bodhisattvas as a contradiction to the original description of the Blood of Vol in the Eberron campaign setting, where the religion is characterized as seeking "undeath as a path to immortality, using negative energy instead of positive energy to seek it"  This interpretation is supported by some of the early adventures, which feature, among other things, a cleric impersonating a vampire to impress his Emerald Claw henchmen, and give him the power trip of the exalted undead state he hopes to acheive.   That's the Blood of Vol I view as cannon, rather than the psuedo humanist Blood of Vol Faiths of Eberron gave us.  (which might be a sect the propagandists put together, but has nothing to do with the real religion not followed by the rubes.)

As for the undead snacks thing, perhaps I'm being a little dramatic, but I can totally see King Kaius spreading a whole lot of propaganda against the Blood of Vol after outlawing the religion, including telling its members where their sacrements of blood were going.  Therefore, the average Kaarnathi knows most of the secrets of the Blood of Vol, except that it's controlled by Vol, which Kaius deemed to sensitive to reveal to the people.  The crimson covenant is common knowledge though, in the sense that Xenu is common knowledge among Americans.  An individual caught trying to join the Blood of Vol in Kaarnath will likely receive a long talk by the local civil authorities about the abusive nature of the cult, then be placed under observation.  Only those who keep on trying to join the religion have formal charges brought against them.  (assuming the authorities don't try to use them to hit the local cult cell from the inside.)

I don't suppose this would be a good time to mention that Rin can grant a +12 to charisma for six hours (twelve or twenty-four at the cost of some ability damage, and +18 if I decide to pick up Empower Spell later).  Though we don't have anyone who could really take advantage of it, unless our robot has some nice save-or-blahs.  [This being through Transmitting Kiss used to cast Beauty's Caress in conjunction with the maximize rod.  Added bonus; the subject becomes superhumanly hot.  Sexy robo a go-go!]

By the way, is there any way to advance skills from here on in?  Like, buying 'em at a hundred XP a pop or something?

Your characters combos sound fairly reasonable, for the sort of campaign we're playing.  Obviously, even a 24 hour charisma boost doesn't lead to preparing more spells, and while +9 to saving throw DCs is impressive, I doubt that E6 characters can get any save or die spells without using rituals, which base their saving throw DC on spell level and ritual difficulty anyway. 

As for skills, your only way of advancing is to take skill boosting feats.  You can make up more "+2 to two skills" feats as you advance, provided the essential feat concept is reasonable.  (a feat that grants +2 to Jump and +2 to Decipher Script, to pick an example I will never see, probobly can't be rationalized)  You can also retrain into a class with more skill points, although that's a somewhat more expensive path.

[Kunoichi]

Ah, I see.  Alright then, it's good to have that sort of clarification. ^^;

[Katina Tarask]

As for skills, your only way of advancing is to take skill boosting feats.  You can make up more "+2 to two skills" feats as you advance, provided the essential feat concept is reasonable.  (a feat that grants +2 to Jump and +2 to Decipher Script, to pick an example I will never see, probobly can't be rationalized)  You can also retrain into a class with more skill points, although that's a somewhat more expensive path.

Unfortunate.  Well.  A thousand points a skill point it is, then.  Steep, but it might be worth it eventually.  Open Minded turns into the going rate, I suppose, though at 5,000XP for every extra feat, 'tis harsh.

[Ixy]

That's just fine.  :-)  Must have made a mistake in filling out your character sheet.

god fucking damnit.  I spent all this damn time on the character sheet trying to make sure it was all copasthetic and cool, and what do I do?  I leave the wrong race after I finally decide. 

Well, if that's any indication of how this is going to go, then I'm going to need more alcohol.

[The Great Triangle]

god fucking damnit.  I spent all this damn time on the character sheet trying to make sure it was all copasthetic and cool, and what do I do?  I leave the wrong race after I finally decide. 

Well, if that's any indication of how this is going to go, then I'm going to need more alcohol.

*hugs*  We all make mistakes from time to time.  :-) 


A note about the Blood of Vol in my E6 version of the setting:  The Blood of Vol is an attractive choice for those who seek power above all else, since undead can progress to the 12 level.   However, once they attain 12th level, undead find they cannot advance, being unable to gain feats.  Even retraining is excruciating for the undead, costing 25,000xp a level.  Hence, most undead remain static and stagnant, a feature which, combined with their poor ability to use ritual magic, occasionally leaves them weaker than they would be had they remained mortal.  For warriors however, the benefits of being undead tend to outweigh the costs.  Until one meets a dragon cleric of the soverign host.   

[PhantomPistoleer]

Since the Factotum is allowed every and any skill, would it be possible to get the Iajutsu skill from Oriental Adventures?

[Tagan]

Oh, I've been watching this thread for days, hoping I'd be approved before it closed.

How does a female Catfolk Monk sound?  I've got a character sheet on mythweavers I can post if you like the concept.

[The Great Triangle]

Since the Factotum is allowed every and any skill, would it be possible to get the Iajutsu skill from Oriental Adventures?

No, no, and NO!!!!!!   :-)   You can take autohypnosis though. 

Oh, I've been watching this thread for days, hoping I'd be approved before it closed.

How does a female Catfolk Monk sound?  I've got a character sheet on mythweavers I can post if you like the concept.

Catfolk monk is acceptable, though your character will be treated as a foreigner, so you may want to consider being a changeling who likes catgirl forms.  As a monk, your main consideration will be what monastic tradition you operate from.   The main monastic traditions of Eberron are the cult of Dol Dorn (strength of body, strength at arms), the cult of the mockery (empower the self, destroy the lie of flesh), the Dakhaani Monk/Rogues of Darguun (practical combat for the restoration of the hobgoblin empire), and the monk/soulknives of the Kalashtar Path of Light.  (perfection of mind and perfection of self)

[Katina Tarask]

And as a Catfolk Monk, I'd suggest multiclassing to Swordsage (Tome of Battle, preferably the unarmed variant) for at least two levels (to avoid BAB loss) to pick up Shadow Blade and get dexterity to your unarmed damage, alongside other toys.

Combining Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle), Capstone Training: Unarmed Strike, and Improved Natural Attack can get your unarmed damage to 3d6, though considering Weapon Finesse is a must and if you're multiclassing Swordsage, Shadow Blade is essential, that means all your feats are tied up and it may be a bit much for this point in the game.

How much should we worry about incidentals like how many arrows we have, or bedrolls, or flint and tinder?  And how important is encumbrance?

[Ixy]

Hey Tarrasque-- any such suggestions for me?  When you said "unarmed damage to 3d6", I realized that I am not worthy when it comes to character-stacking.

Oh, and-- welcome, Tagan.  Hope you like it here :)

[PhantomPistoleer]

I'm glad Ixy asked first!  Whaddabout me?  How can I make my go-getting-journalist more awesome?

Ideally, how can I make that +5 Intelligence and +5 Charisma work better for me?  I already have it so that I use my Int + Cha on most skills, and I use my INT bonus instead of my CON for HP and DEX for Reflex. :o

[Tagan]

Ok then, how about a female Changeling Kalashtir Monk/Psychic Warrior do?

Unfortunatly I don't have the ToB.

I can have the sheet ready tonight with these changes.

[PhantomPistoleer]

I think one way I can optimize my character is by making him be a half-nymph or other race.  It works to my advantage by three points to do that.  ::thinks::

[PhantomPistoleer]

Looking over some of the templates, I see "Base Skill Points are now (6+Int mod) * (Racial HD+3)."  What exactly does that mean?

[Katina Tarask]

E6 gestalt would be pretty cool. [/notsosubtlefishing]

Hey Tarrasque-- any such suggestions for me?  When you said "unarmed damage to 3d6", I realized that I am not worthy when it comes to character-stacking.

Mind, you still have another couple level 6 feats (one for hitting level 6, one for 20,000 XP, one for 25,000 XP).

Lessee... *Looks up Drow Skirmisher.*  *Looks up drow longknife.*  Looks like the longknife's just a shortsword that can be thrown.  And Drow Skirmisher seems to be a fairly petty benefit.  It's essentially exotic weapon proficiency to weapons you either don't use or can't make very good use of, and a conditional modifier that you really can't put to very good use.

Normally, I'd suggest Swift Hunter, but Greater Manyshot is just out of reach.  So instead, I suggest rearranging to Rogue4/Ranger2.  Endurance and a first-level animal companion don't do much for you.  Unfortunately, Rogue5 would cost you a feat and a point of BAB, but you can advance Sneak Attack with Capstone Training.

For damage, one good way to get off a lot of attacks for piling on Sneak Attack is Master Thrower.  This would be through Prestige Training, mind, but the keys here are Palm Throw, which doubles the number of small thrown weapons you can throw (but you don't apply that strength bonus you don't have) and Weak Spot, the class's capstone, which requires Ultimate Mastery, but is totally worth it since it turns your thrown weapon attacks (which are already doubled) into touch attacks.  With two-weapon fighting and rapid shot in the mix, that comes out to six attacks a round, easily, all of which can have Sneak Attack applied.  Mind, Quick Draw is essential here.  You may want Rogue3/Fighter1/Ranger2 for this one.

The lower-end, more expensive version of this trick is the potion-throwing Rogue.  Dual-wielding and throwing acid flasks and alchemist's fire lets you get off those sneak attack touch attacks.

It's also pretty much essential to have a reliable way of applying Sneak Attack.  Even getting people flat-footed by throwing around marbles (Complete Scoundrel) is helpful.  The easiest trick is combining Dark Lantern (Tome of Magic, page 156) and Ring of the Darkhidden (Magic Item Compendium, page 122).  The former provides shadowy illumination, allowing you to hide, and the latter hides you from Darkvision.  The two essentially combine to provide Hide in Plain Sight for only 3,000g.  However, only really works with good stealth skills; you need those to be very high in order to be reliable.  You may have some good items pumping it up, but I'd still advise taking max ranks in Hide and Move Silently as a supplement.

Combining Quick with a Con score of 12 is dangerous.  Particularly since you need to be within 30' to get your Sneak Attack off.  But traits and flaws were prohibited back on page two, making it somewhat moot.

Ideally, how can I make that +5 Intelligence and +5 Charisma work better for me?  I already have it so that I use my Int + Cha on most skills, and I use my INT bonus instead of my CON for HP and DEX for Reflex. :o

My, I am popular.  Though there's really not a whole lot you can do with that charisma without either a lot of class levels (cutting into Factotum) or Iaijutsu Master.  Marshal simply isn't a very good class.  You'd probably be better off with some class that advances your BAB, to keep you viable.  Even if it's just Factotum6.  And you may be better off forgoing that monstrous charisma in favor of simply good charisma, with better stats all around (such as decent dexterity and constitution).  Then again, motivating rituals can be powerful, and Rin has a few knowledge-boosters in her own arsenal.

Mind over Matter isn't any good, if I'm recalling it right; it's only intelligence to HP at level 1, with an additional +1 HP for every metamagic feat you take, so Improved Toughness would be better.  However, as I only have a vague idea of where it's from, and I don't want to go diving through FR stuff, I'm not quite sure what it does.  (Hint: ANNOTATE!)

One of the few good benefits you can get from that charisma with a mostly-Factotum is Charming the Arrow, pending DM approval, if and only if you're a fey.  Which is rare, though half-nymph (wherever it's from- I'm guessing half-fey) probably does that.  Though I've never heard of a male half-nymph.  Though making yourself an archer with this party could be bad; we're short melee presence.

Magic Device Attunement is just flat not a very good feat.  A Wand is DC20 to activate, and you get a +2 bonus if you've ever activated it before.  You have +17.  Activate it once, and you're literally guaranteed success.  Other than that, all you have are scrolls, which are single-use, making Magic Device Attunement pretty unimportant.

Force of Personality (Complete Adventurer) adds charisma to will saves.  It's fairly straightforward.

I have no idea what the Insightful feat is or where it comes from.  (Hint: ANNOTATE!)

Then... there are the Slippers of Battledancing (DMG2, page 272).  This one requires some huge reach.  As in trading in a big stack of experience points for money, as it costs 33,750.  However, so long as you move at least 10' in a round, it lets you apply charisma instead of Dex/Str to attack and damage with a one-handed or light melee weapon.  Approval required, as DMG2 is not a listed sourcebook.

Honorable mention to Self-Aware and Tantric, sexual feats from the Book of Erotic Fantasy that boost charisma and intelligence respectively.

And finally, your skill points are spread thin.  Really thin.  You may want to do some pruning.  And Open-Minded is a fairly pointless feat at this point.

Looking over some of the templates, I see "Base Skill Points are now (6+Int mod) * (Racial HD+3)."  What exactly does that mean?

If you're looking at the half-fey template, that refers to racial hit die.  You don't have those, so you don't have to worry about it.  If you had racial hit die, it would mean a shift from N+ skill points to the fey 6+.  Though mind, Fiend Folio isn't on the approved list, so you'd need to run that by Triangle.

[The Great Triangle]

Looking over some of the templates, I see "Base Skill Points are now (6+Int mod) * (Racial HD+3)."  What exactly does that mean?

It means you're being an asshole for trying to pick your race based on what has the most plusses.   :P  Stick with the damned core races if you don't have a character concept which relies on being outside the core races.  Sorry if I get a little annoyed, but people who pick a completely random race for more plusses annoy the hell out of me.


I understand everyone wants to optomize their characters, but I don't like people making roleplaying decisions for solely mechanical reasons.  It's just silly.  I will be fairly liberal on encumberance and ammunition though, as long as you're not toting around a chunk of iron the size of pluto.  (an actual build that made the rounds 5 years or so ago)


There are 12 recognized monastic traditions in Eberron, as well as the monastic tradition of the Dolgaunt and other aberrations.  Monks in Eberron are not required to be lawful, but very few monastic traditions take chaotic monks.  You can take the favored feats of your monastic tradition as bonus feats at 1st, 2nd, and 6th levels, alongside the usual available selections.  Bonus feats available from a monastic tradition ignore the usual prerequisites.  If your monastic tradition has a favored class, you can multiclass freely into that class without the usual restrictions on multiclass monks.

Warrior's Hammer Style
Affiliation: Cult of Dol Dorn
Alignment: LG, LN, or NG
Favored Feats: Power Attack, Action Surge, Improved Toughness (cw), Robliar's Gambit (phb2, 6th level only)

Twin Gods Style
Affiliation: Cults of Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah
Alignment: LG, LN
Favored Feats: Double Steel Strike, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Two Weapon Rend (phb2, 6th level only)

Flensing Blade Style
Affiliation: Cult of the Mockery
Alignment: Any Evil
Favored Feats: Flensing Strike, Versitle Unarmed Strike (phb2), Power Attack, Slashing Flurry (phb2, 6th level only)

Copper Serpent Style
Affiliation: Cult of Boldrei
Alignment: LG, NG, LN
Favored Feats: Serpent Strike, Short Haft (phb2), Spring Attack, Greater Powerful Charge (6th level only)

Whirling Steel Style
Affiliation: The Church of the Silver Flame
Alignment: LG, NG, LN, LE
Favored Feats: Whirling Steel Strike, Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) (phb2), Improved Critical (Longswords) (6th level only)
Favored Class: Paladin

Inner Divinity Style
Affiliation: The Blood of Vol
Alignment: LE, LN, N
Favored Feats: Fiery Fist, Fiery Ki Defense, Ki Blast (6th level only)
Favored Class: Necromancer

Alehouse Memory Style
Affiliation: The Trust of Zilargo
Alignment: LN
Favored Feats: Fade Into Violence (phb2), Urban Tracking, Leadership (6th level only)
Favored Class: Bard

Mind Blade Style
Affiliation: The Path of Light
Alignment: LG, LN, NG, N
Favored Feats: Psionic Fist, Psionic Body, Wounding Attack (6th level only) 
Favored Class: Psionic Warrior

Thirteen Moons Style
Affiliation: Shifters and Lycanthropes
Alignment: Any Neutral
Favored Feats: Any Shifter Feat (must meet prerequisites), Improved Unarmed Strike, Multiattack

Sentinel's Wrath Style
Affiliation: House Denieth
Alignment: LG, LN
Favored Feats: Action Boost, Precise Swing, Defensive Sweep (phb2, 6th level only)
Favored Class: Knight

Imperial Martyr Style
Affiliation: Dakhaani Hobgoblins
Alignment: LN, LE
Favored Feats: Arterial Strike (cw), Hamstring (cw), Water Splitting Stone (phb2, 6th level only)
Favored Class: Rogue

Undying Honor Style
Affiliation: The Undying Court
Alignment: LN, LG
Favored Feats: Right of Counsel, Heroic Spirit, Ecclesiarch, Immunity to Poison and Disease (6th level only)

[The Great Triangle]

Also, Tarrasque, I'm giving you 2,500 xp for helping people make their characters.  :-)

[PhantomPistoleer]

It means you're being an asshole for trying to pick your race based on what has the most plusses.   :P  Stick with the damned core races if you don't have a character concept which relies on being outside the core races.  Sorry if I get a little annoyed, but people who pick a completely random race for more plusses annoy the hell out of me.

Urr...

[The Great Triangle]

Urr...

Just don't try to take races from books I haven't approved, 'kay?   ;D

[Katina Tarask]

Also, Tarrasque, I'm giving you 2,500 xp for helping people make their characters.  :-)

Yay, experience points!

It means you're being an asshole for trying to pick your race based on what has the most plusses.   :P  Stick with the damned core races if you don't have a character concept which relies on being outside the core races.  Sorry if I get a little annoyed, but people who pick a completely random race for more plusses annoy the hell out of me.

In his defense, he was starting with fey-touched to begin with.  The line between fey-touched and half-fey is pretty much whether great-great-great grandma was a fairy or whether grandma was a fairy.  So I'd put it more on the order of choosing between Beguiler, telepath Psion, and enchanter Wizard for your brainomancer.

Though, the whole 'Fiends Folio isn't on the book list,' thing still stands, so the case is rather moot.

[The Great Triangle]

Hmm...  I suppose I am being somewhat harsh.  Real life is being a bit of a drag lately.  I do, however, truly hate half races, and the setting hates them to a decent degree too, so I think I can go ahead and deny approval.  Sorry! 

[PhantomPistoleer]

Anyhow, you're right, Terra!  That Mind Over Matter (PGFP.41) doesn't work the way I wanted it to.  Insightful Reflexes (CAdvP110) does work the way I want it to.  ::taps chin::  What to do, what to do.

[The Great Triangle]

Here's another link to the game's OOC thread, in case anybody missed it and doesn't want to read the thread: https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=52661.0] [url]https://elliquiy.com/forums/index.php?topic=52661.0[/url]

[Katina Tarask]

How much should we worry about incidentals like how many arrows we have, or bedrolls, or flint and tinder?  And how important is encumbrance?

Pistol: Mind Over Matter almost certainly isn't worth it in this case, but Insightful Reflexes is still worth it.

If you pick up a levels of Bard, you can take Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn), which lets you get charisma to melee attacks for a limited amount of time (9 rounds if you take full ranks in Perform: Dance), at the cost of a Bardic Music attempt (Extra Music and one level of Bard should cut it for the day).  One level of Swashbuckler paired with Capstone Training to get Insightful Strike will get you permanent intelligence to damage.  So, take both of 'em and you should be a decent melee presence.  It costs you a level of Factotum and the Marshal level, but it should be fine.

[The Great Triangle]

I'm not going to be particularly anal retentive about supplies.  You will need to indicate if you're carrying strange and expensive gear like flasks of acid, but each character can be assumed to carry or own:

bedroll
lantern + Oil
20 or so tindertwigs
pack of cigarettes or cigars
set of manacles
pen and ink
picture ID
compass
military dress uniform
civilian clothes
knife
birth control
family signet ring
letters of credit for personal and expense accounts
traveling papers for all major countries in Khorvaire, with fake IDs
mirror
chalk
signal whistle

Your character may have other gear, but use that as a guideline for what your character generically has available.  Mass production in Eberron has lowered the price of tindertwigs from 1gp to 1sp, while masterwork weapons cost only 50gp. 

You also have the neccesary tools and kits to perform any skills you have ranks for, so if you're trained in disguise, you own a disguise kit.  This never gives you magical items for free.

[Katina Tarask]

Should we assume that any mundane gear not on that list needs to be listed?  Like soap or pen and paper?  Or should we just keep the most basic of basics like that assumed?

I'm guessing how much rope we have on hand actually matters, so I'm probably going to list that.

[The Great Triangle]

I thought paper went without saying, and if your character makes a habit of carrying soap around, you should note it.  The amount of rope you have is also important, and I didn't put that on the list of default items.  :-)

[PhantomPistoleer]

All right, a quick question just to clarify things for myself:

If I use the Capstone Training feat, would that mean that I am able to access any LVL 2 Class Feature from a class I don't have any levels in?  For example, if I'm a ranger 6, could I use Capstone Training to purchase a class feature from Rogue 2 (i.e., Evasion)?

If I use the Capstone Training Feat and then the Prestige Training stack?  Could I end up getting a LVL 11 Class Feature if I combine the two?

Thanks!

[The Great Triangle]

Capstone training stacks with prestige training, so you could theoretically get a level 11 class feature that way.  Your interpretation is odd, but I'll allow you to go and take evasion that way if you'd like it.  Given the low hit points of characters in E6, it seems faily reasonable.

[Tagan]

Looks like a NG Mind Blade Style girl for you then!  Thanks, that was very helpful, I'llnpost the character sheet shortly.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Capstone training stacks with prestige training, so you could theoretically get a level 11 class feature that way.  Your interpretation is odd, but I'll allow you to go and take evasion that way if you'd like it.  Given the low hit points of characters in E6, it seems faily reasonable.

But that was an example, and it wasn't what I was planning to do.  I had a problem figuring the whole cap thing.  :o

So just to clarify, if I pick up Rogue 6, and then I got the Prestige and then Capstone in the assassin class, I could end up with a L6 character that has 6d6 of sneak attack damage -and- improved uncanny dodge?  On top of that, I could probably get a LVL 2 Rogue + LVL 4 Swashbuckler, pick up the Daring Rogue feat that lets you stack grace and sneak attack, too?

::head explodes::

[Katina Tarask]

Mind how many feats and how much XP that would take, Pistol.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Wouldn't it just take the following:

15,000 XP for a sixth level character;
5,000 XP to purchase prestige;
5,000 XP to purchase capstone?

o_O

[The Great Triangle]

E6 doesn't mean your gimped at a permanent 6th level of power, just that heroes have to start taking other routes to power after hitting the top of human capability.  :-)

[PhantomPistoleer]

All right, so I have another question:

If I pick Prestige Training in Invisible Hand and pick up Unfettered Defense, and then pick up Sneak Attack +3d6 via Cap Training, how many points of Intelligence am I applying to my AC with Unfettered Defense?

[The Great Triangle]

Phantom, you know what Tarrasque told you about annotating? 

I haven't memorized the entire line, and I can't answer these questions easily without more information. 

Tarrasque can answer it for 250xp though.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Ur, sorry.  P46, CWar. :k

[The Great Triangle]

You would only apply 1 point of intelligence bonus to your AC.  If you take Class Training (Unfettered Defense) though, you get to apply 3 points of intelligence.  Capstone training only increases your effective class level for the purpose of qualifying for feats.  (mostly for fighters)

[Katina Tarask]

Unfettered Defense is a feature unto itself, advanced independently.  By taking Prestige Training to gain Unfettered Defense, you get it as a first-level Invisible Blade.  To advance it any further, you need to take Capstone Training, which advances it by two levels each time.  Advancing Feature B does not advance Feature A; a Paladin who advances her mount via Capstone Training would have to spend another feat to advance Lay on Hands.

Also, I do not believe you can cut straight to the 3d6 sneak attack; that 3d6 sneak attack is, in fact, a +1d6 advancement to your current Sneak Attack ability, same as any other, so you would be using Capstone Training to advance your Sneak Attack by +1d6 each time.

[PhantomPistoleer]

Just when you think you're getting somewhere with character creation...

[PhantomPistoleer]

You'll have to pick four feats to get all of those bonuses, yes, although you can receive class features from higher levels through the capstone training and ultimate mastery feats.  You can also pick abilities from multiple presige classes if you could qualify for all classes you pick abilities from by 9th level.

All right, here is the source of all of my confusion.

Unfettered Defense is a feature unto itself, advanced independently.  By taking Prestige Training to gain Unfettered Defense, you get it as a first-level Invisible Blade.  To advance it any further, you need to take Capstone Training, which advances it by two levels each time.  Advancing Feature B does not advance Feature A; a Paladin who advances her mount via Capstone Training would have to spend another feat to advance Lay on Hands.

But the thing is, I'm not actually picking Unfettered Defense at LVL 1 Invisible Blade, but at LVL 3 Invisible Blade.  o_o

DISREGARD:

Prestige Training (General)
Prerequisite: 6th level
Benefit: Choose a prestige class you could qualify for by 9th level.  All special requirements for the class must already be met.  You gain a class feature that presige class gets at 1st level.  For the purposes of the capstone training and the ultimate mastery feats, you are considered to be level 1 in the selected prestige class.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times, its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another class feature.  You may only take this feat if you could qualify for the prestige classes you have abilities from simultaneously.

I get it now.

[TheGlyphstone]

@ Tagan: Something you should consider, and by 'consider', I mean 'get at all costs, including bribing the DM', is the Talashatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona (an Ebberon book). It lets you count Psychic Warrior levels and Monk levels for unarmed damage, AC bonus, and Flurry of Blows. At level 6, that's +1 AC, damage boost from d6 to d8, and reducing the Flurry penalty from -2 to -1. It'll cost 2 feat slots though (Monastic Training - Psychic Warrior and Talashatora) - you would probably want to get rid of either Combat Expertise+Whirlwind Attack or Mobility+Spring Attack - my preference being the latter, because Whirlwind Attack can get quite ugly once you fire off Expansion and become Huge with delicious 15ft reach*, and because Spring Attack deprives you of Flurry, your second-best Monk feature.

*Will require Practiced Manifester, naturally).

[Tagan]

I'm blanking here.  You want me to get rid of Mobility and Spring attack, yet keep Whirlwind Attack.

Whirlwind Attack REQUIRES Mobility AND Spring Attack.  I'm sure I'd love to take the feats you have mentioned, but I think it will have to come later.

[Katina Tarask]

Whirlwind Attack just isn't worth it until you have nothing better to do with your feats due to the harsh prerequisites, nor are Mobility or Spring Attack.  However, Talashatora would be good from what I hear of it.  If you take Talashatora and Improved Natural Attack (a Monk staple) together, it gets you up to 2d6 damage before expansion.  And it really looks like Kasumi desperately needs more damage.

And Practiced Manifester wouldn't quite be enough to hit huge; it'd take Overchannel, as well, as you need to spend 7 PP to pull that off.

Mind that the +1 to whatever stat at level 4 still applies, so Kasumi's actually at a 39-point buy at the moment.

[Tagan]

Sigh.  I hate to min/max a character.  If I wanted to get ugly, I could have gone Changeling, Monk Warshaper with a single sorcerer lvl, and get Enlarge Person and Mighty Wallop, and do 4d6 a hit.

Would that make you happy?  If you all want me to uber out my character, I will...

Look, I'm really tired.  I've made combat monsters before, and for once, I was aiming slightly away from that.  She's more about utility, mobility, scouting, and in combat, being a portable reusable, mini-fireball.  If you think about her using Skin of the Construct to Trip and then pound 10 or 12 people all at once, and then pound the first few to get up again... with Hustle, she can move into the center of a large group.  With Mobiltiy she'll make it to the center, with Enlarge, she'll sweep the whiole bunch off their feat, with a feat from Skin of the Construct she'll either Cleave or Trip...  And being larger, she'll do 1d8+2 to each and everyone of them, and twice to the first 5 to try to rise.

If anyone has Mage Spells, one could be Mighty Wallop, or Mighty Wallop Greater... cast it on her foot.  Then she'll do 2d6 or 3d6 each...

Not everything is about combat though.

[TheGlyphstone]

I'm blanking here.  You want me to get rid of Mobility and Spring attack, yet keep Whirlwind Attack.

Whirlwind Attack REQUIRES Mobility AND Spring Attack.  I'm sure I'd love to take the feats you have mentioned, but I think it will have to come later.

Oops, my bad. In that case, following Tarrasque's advice would probably be best, I had forgotten about Imp. Natural Attack...I'd suggest the following:
-Dodge, replace it with Improved Natural Attack.
-Combat Reflexes, replace it with Monastic Training(Psychic Warrior), which can be taken as a Monk bonus feat.
-Mobility, replace it with Talashatora.
-Combat Expertise, replace it with Overchannel.
-Spring Attack, replace it with Class Training (Flurry of Blows), so you gain Greater Flurry and a delicious 3rd attack.
-Whirlwind Attack, replace it with Practiced Manifester.
-Skin of the Construct, keep it, I just read the feat and it is awesome just for the sheer flexibility of options you have.

You can still get a semi-Spring Attack-like ability with Hustle, or seriously ruin somebody's day with a Psionic Lion's Charge Greater Flurry, or get really big and hit someone really, really hard with augmented Expansion.

You don't have to 'uber' your character, but as it is, you'll have an extremely hard time actually contributing to combat - which, if we're in a military unit, will likely come up frequently. If you're fine with that possibility, leave your sheet exactly as it is now, but there's a lot of room for improvement without even touching the real cheese. Spending 5 feats to get Whirlwind Attack is just squandering feat slots, and can easily be replicated by gaining Greater Flurry and getting bigger via Expansion, without weakening the character concept at all.

[Tagan]

... oh well.

You guys want it.  All right.  I'll try to up her power.  (Sigh)

[Ixy]

I kinda don't think you should have to unless the DM requires it for the game.  I passed on a lot of alternatives too, just because I like my image of how the character 'should' be, but I did appreciate the suggestions... in fact, I even asked for them.  But, after considering the alternatives, I chose what I liked and I'm ok with that.

[Tagan]

Hmm... good point.  Oh Great and powerful Triangle, what do you prefer? 

[Tagan]

(Clapping Hands in glee.) Glyphstone!  Mark is wonderful!  I admit that Kasumi will have some problems with his bloodthirst, but she'll probably start treating him even better, in a mothering sort of way, hoping to turn him around.

I LOVE the concept though!

[TheGlyphstone]

Hehe, thanks. I plan to have a lot of fun with him too, particularly in getting his sadistic kicks in under the noses of the annoying goody-two-shoes squad members. :)

[Tagan]

@ Tagan: Something you should consider, and by 'consider', I mean 'get at all costs, including bribing the DM', is the Talashatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona (an Ebberon book). It lets you count Psychic Warrior levels and Monk levels for unarmed damage, AC bonus, and Flurry of Blows. At level 6, that's +1 AC, damage boost from d6 to d8, and reducing the Flurry penalty from -2 to -1. It'll cost 2 feat slots though (Monastic Training - Psychic Warrior and Talashatora) - you would probably want to get rid of either Combat Expertise+Whirlwind Attack or Mobility+Spring Attack - my preference being the latter, because Whirlwind Attack can get quite ugly once you fire off Expansion and become Huge with delicious 15ft reach*, and because Spring Attack deprives you of Flurry, your second-best Monk feature.

*Will require Practiced Manifester, naturally).

Ok, Glyphstone, I've compromised.  I'll trade in Improved Grapple for Improved Natural Weapon, making my Enlarged Self's attacks to 2d6 to everyone in my Whirlwind's reach.  In return, spend 750 gp to buy a Wand of Mighty Wallop, and use it on anyone you like... Being a Warlock, that should be easy enough for you. (On me that'd mean 3d6 a hit, and 4d6 in 10,000 exp.)  Good enough?

[TheGlyphstone]

Don't be looking to please me, I was just offering unsolicited suggestions as to ways you could improve combat-effectiveness. If you're happy where you are in terms of damage output, you don't need to do anything.

Plus, I don't think you can trade Imp. Grapple for Imp. Natural Weapon anyways, the latter is not a Monk Bonus Feat.

Although - Wands! I had been wondering what to spend my leftover cash on. Repair Light Wounds for certain, and maybe something else.

[Tagan]

Plus, I don't think you can trade Imp. Grapple for Imp. Natural Weapon anyways, the latter is not a Monk Bonus Feat.

Hmm, you're right.  I could do it if I ws the Cobra Strike School from UA... I wonder if I could be a Cobra Strike/Mind Blade School?   XD

Really.

[The Great Triangle]

Hmm... good point.  Oh Great and powerful Triangle, what do you prefer?

If you keep your character exactly as it is, you can have the effect of the damned talaslanta or whatever feat and improved natural attack for free.  (that's what you get for sticking to your guns and not min/maxing!  Good on you!)   

[Tagan]

If you keep your character exactly as it is, you can have the effect of the damned talaslanta or whatever feat and improved natural attack for free.  (that's what you get for sticking to your guns and not min/maxing!  Good on you!)   

You see my avatar?  That's me right now. 

(Tagan runs over and throws herself onto the Great Triangle with a big hug!)

Yatta!!  Domo Arigato Gozaimus!

(--- a minute later she calms down.) Thank you, Triangle.  Actually, I love that you gave it too me, but you know... I'm just going to take one feat.  I really don't feel like I deserve three, and Improved Natural Attack was next in line for me anyway.  This just saves me 5,000 xp.  :) Not 15,000!

I feel good!  Thanks!

[Ixy]

oh, for pete's sake.

[Tagan]

Somebody give Ixy some xp for putting up with us!

[TheGlyphstone]

Wait, can I get a free feat for sticking to my gunslaser beams and not switching all my feat slots to Skill Focus (Profession: Chef) and Skill Focus (Craft: Delicious Cake)? Min/maxing Profession and Craft can make you some excellent money without any risk at all. ;D

[Tagan]

Heh!  I like it!  We'll be adventuring bakers!  Strawberry Shortcake and friends!

[Katina Tarask]

*Takes Craft Construct in order to assemble the vicious bread pudding golem.*

[TheGlyphstone]

*Builds a Calzone Golem to destroy the Bread Pudding Golem*