Feds vs. States on legality of marijuana

[Trieste]

On a Monday teleconference call, former Drug Enforcement Agency administrators and directors of the Office of National Drug Control Policy voiced a strong reminder to the U.S. Department of Justice that even if voters in Colorado, Oregon and Washington pass ballot measures to legalize marijuana use for adults and tax its sale, the legalization of marijuana still violates federal law and the passage of these measures could trigger a "Constitutional showdown."

Well, good.

I understand the need for federal law to preempt state law, I really do. However, that power needs to be used sparingly and only when necessary to protect the country against something that states cannot handle by themselves. Clearly the states are perfectly capable of deciding whether or not they choose to make marijuana a new source of tax revenue. I think that since each individual state must balance its budget every single year - states are not allowed to run at a deficit like the federal government can - the federal government should stay the hell out of state sources of revenue.

Seriously, if DEA enforcement activity is lowered, that lowers federal costs. While raising income for Colorado, Oregon, and Washington. I'm willing to wager that difficulties from synthetic cannabinoids will tank out in those states, also, which helps protect public health due to the fact that synthetic cannabinoids are fucking dangerous while THC is less so.

I'm not an insane states' rights kind of person, but even I see this as nothing more than Big Brother waving his dick around.  >:(

[Callie Del Noire]

What is going to be fun to see the conservatives who are 'small government' and 'states rights' push the federal case because of what you do in cases like this will stand out in the media..and it WILL haunt them when they do it.

There is no win/win for the neo-conservatives.

[Serephino]

I'm not an insane states' rights kind of person, but even I see this as nothing more than Big Brother waving his dick around.  >:(

That's pretty much what it is.  I get the federal government wanting to protect us from dangerous drugs, but, from what I've seen, marijuana really isn't that dangerous.  The only difference I can see between marijuana, and say alcohol, is that stoned people usually don't get violent.  I've been around my cousin while she was smoking some, and she was very... relaxed...  It's the stuff that's laced or synthetic that's dangerous.  Making it legal and regulating it would actually be better for the public in my opinion.   

[Callie Del Noire]

That's pretty much what it is.  I get the federal government wanting to protect us from dangerous drugs, but, from what I've seen, marijuana really isn't that dangerous.  The only difference I can see between marijuana, and say alcohol, is that stoned people usually don't get violent.  I've been around my cousin while she was smoking some, and she was very... relaxed...  It's the stuff that's laced or synthetic that's dangerous.  Making it legal and regulating it would actually be better for the public in my opinion.   

The only dangerous episode of marijuana I've seen was a friend getting some laced with PCP ..and well his brain was pretty much toast from the PCP not.. the marijuana. Ironically if it WAS regulated.. you would most likely have none of these issues popping up

[Mithlomwen]

Making it legal and regulating it would actually be better for the public in my opinion.   

Agreed.  Besides the opportunity for increased revenue for the state, legalizing it could potentially create quite a few jobs as well. 

[Callie Del Noire]

Agreed.  Besides the opportunity for increased revenue for the state, legalizing it could potentially create quite a few jobs as well.

But but.. we'd lose all those vital corporate prison jobs! You know the ones who get kickbacks to the politicians for keeping the war on drugs going strong?

[OldSchoolGamer]

I think it was Confucius who counseled rulers to not outlaw what they could not reasonably control.

Whether cannabis cures cancer or turns normal people into walkers from The Walking Dead, it's a plant.  It can be readily cultivated anywhere there's a growing season of four months or longer (i.e., most of the United States) and indoors anywhere.  No special equipment is required to process cannabis.  You just pick the buds, crush them, and roll them into a cigarette and smoke it.  That's all there is to it.  (Granted, to make high-value, commercial grows is a bit more of an undertaking, but you don't have to grow high-end weed to simply get high.)

Therefore, the war on marijuana never really made much sense.  It's pissing into the wind.  And, as others have pointed out, marijuana isn't any more dangerous than alcohol and tobacco.

[Pumpkin Seeds]

The Federal Government needs to see the writing on the wall and be more forward thinking.  Marijuana will become legal at some point in the near future.  Social stigma is drastically reduced on the drug to the point that using the substance is seen as popular and cool.  When pop icon figures publically discuss methods of smoking marijuana and even politicians make a joke of the whole situation such as Bill Clinton, then social acceptance is clearly there.  The medical community, while not in support, is not giving any ammunition to groups against the legalization of marijuana.  People every year are more in support of legalization and less in support of harsher sentencing.  So really the case is inevitable and the Federal Government needs to zip its pants up for this debate. 

While I cannot say that I am personally for the mass legalization of marijuana, I’m also not dumb enough to ignore the cues. 

[Vanity Evolved]

The reason weed isn't legalized in America is largely in part due to privatisation; look at some of the regulations put in place by the companies that run prisons. They get money from criminals, so legalising pot would lead to a -huge- hit to them, profit-wise.

[Callie Del Noire]

The reason weed isn't legalized in America is largely in part due to privatisation; look at some of the regulations put in place by the companies that run prisons. They get money from criminals, so legalising pot would lead to a -huge- hit to them, profit-wise.

EXACTLY.. they will lose a lot.. only when the pro-legalizing crowd moves up candidates that aren't bought.. will it be legalized

[OldSchoolGamer]

EXACTLY.. they will lose a lot.. only when the pro-legalizing crowd moves up candidates that aren't bought.. will it be legalized

Or when the friends and relatives of people locked up for possession decide to arm themselves and have a Bastille Day.  It's a dark horse now, but I think there's also growing anger, especially in the communities hard-hit by the "War on Drugs." 

[Stattick]

I really wish they'd legalize pot already. This is something that they've been trying to do for 50 years now.

[Trieste]

Or when the friends and relatives of people locked up for possession decide to arm themselves and have a Bastille Day.  It's a dark horse now, but I think there's also growing anger, especially in the communities hard-hit by the "War on Drugs."

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stay on the topic of federal and state governments. If you can't do so, please feel free to make this kind of post elsewhere. Like, maybe to a forum where people appreciate the constant doom, gloom, and conspiracy theories.

Thank you very much.

[OldSchoolGamer]

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stay on the topic of federal and state governments. If you can't do so, please feel free to make this kind of post elsewhere. Like, maybe to a forum where people appreciate the constant doom, gloom, and conspiracy theories.

Thank you very much.

Yes of course, after all we've never had a revolution or even a revolt or uprising in the United States of America.  Foolish of me to posit such an obvious impossibility.  It could never happen here.

[Trieste]

Sarcasm isn't needed. It's a simple request to keep the thread on-topic. :)

[Ironwolf85]

I'm of the impression it will devolve into a series of Blue Laws, much as you have dry counties here and there for booze

[Cecilia]

I asked a speaker from our local referendum (WA state) what happens with the federal government.  The answer was sort of sketchy and ended with some vague reference to what is happening in CA and that there will need to be a supreme court case to take it to the federal level. 

This article talks about the basic pitfalls...no one knows what is going to happen if I passes....
http://www.cannabisnews.org/wash-effort-to-legalize-pot-faces-legal-pitfalls/2011/11/20

[Callie Del Noire]

I think that it needs to be a federal mandate.. state by state won't fix the problem. It would, however, be a good way to START the instituition of a method of regulation. The tax money coming in would make tabaco look tame

[Tamhansen]

I think that it needs to be a federal mandate.. state by state won't fix the problem. It would, however, be a good way to START the instituition of a method of regulation. The tax money coming in would make tabaco look tame

having lived in the Netherlands for many years I have seen that even decriminilisation, has solved a lot of issues. The weed is of better quality and purity than anywhere, drug related disturbances were nearly nonexistent, untill the neoconservatives and reactionaries introduced the weed pass system banning foreigners from purchasing it, and the overflow onto harddrugs is negligible mostly because you don't buy your crack from the same guy you buy your dimebag from. Weed sellers here are businessmen, who stand to lose a lot if they mess up.

That's pretty much what it is.  I get the federal government wanting to protect us from dangerous drugs, but, from what I've seen, marijuana really isn't that dangerous.  The only difference I can see between marijuana, and say alcohol, is that stoned people usually don't get violent.  I've been around my cousin while she was smoking some, and she was very... relaxed...  It's the stuff that's laced or synthetic that's dangerous.  Making it legal and regulating it would actually be better for the public in my opinion.   

Actually the biggest difference between Cannabis and Alcohol or tobacco apart from the latter two being legal is the fact that weed is less harmful to both body and mind. Get your stuff pure and use in moderation and you will live a healthy productive and maybe more enjoyable life because, well Bag Of Weed - Family Guy

[Cecilia]

My guess is state regulated marijuana would also cost less than street marijuana, too.  I don't smoke it, and I likely won't even if it is legalized.  But, I know plenty of people who do, and they have to hide something that is not causing any problems in their private lives or creating any crime.  They have disposable income to buy it, and are reduced to street corner haggling for something that is less harmful than a bottle of booze.

[Tamhansen]

*giggles at the non smoker still being labeled an addict*  *points at post count title*

In all seriousness though you are right. over here an ounce sold over the counter would go at around 150 euro's or 180 dollars. I doubt streetcorners turn out quality stuff at that pirices.

[Oniya]

*giggles at the non smoker still being labeled an addict*  *points at post count title*

In all seriousness though you are right. over here an ounce sold over the counter would go at around 150 euro's or 180 dollars. I doubt streetcorners turn out quality stuff at that pirices.

For the clueless among us *raises hand*, how many 'servings per package' are in an ounce?

[Trieste]

Normal joints are about .5 to 1 gram per joint, there are a little over 28g in 1oz... so anywhere from 28 to 56...?

[Stattick]

For the clueless among us *raises hand*, how many 'servings per package' are in an ounce?

OMG a lot.

And for perspective, you have to be a serious pot head to be able to finish a joint all by yourself in one setting. A joint is something that's normally passed around and gets like six people stoned. So, take Trieste's number and multiply it times six to give you an aproximate number of times you can get stoned from an ounce... And frankly, from someone that used to smoke, I'm thinking that Trieste's numbers look low. I once bought a quarter ounce and smoked it mostly by myself. Took me forever to finish it, like months, and the pot was getting stale by the time I finally finished it off.

[Tamhansen]

Normal joints are about .5 to 1 gram per joint, there are a little over 28g in 1oz... so anywhere from 28 to 56...?

Actually for most dutch weeds I'd not recommend putting in a whole gram unless your smoking one joint in a while. There's a reason we mix it with tobacco.

But yeah on average half a gram to a joint.