Good Fantasy Species?

[Xenphir]

Just wanted to start a little chat on what everyone, Fantasy lovers mostly, thinks are good species for fantasy?

I'd have to say Elven types are pretty good. But that might just be my personal preference  ::)

[Vekseid]

What are you defining as good? As in good additions to a story, or good as a collective?

[RedPhoenix]

What are you defining as good? As in good additions to a story, or good as a collective?

Wondering the same thing myself.

Will say though the one species I tend to like in every setting is goblins. Dunno why I just think they're cute and hilarious and would like to have a bunch of them to do my bidding.   ^-^

[Xenphir]

Either :o If you have a reason why that's a good thing to mention too ^^ But generally what I mean is, a good species is one that, You could play in a lot of settings, has many variations of the species (leaving open for the writer to decide upon what weaknesses they want, not what someone else has wrote about before.) Etc.

[Galanthor]

I like original Species that don't occure in every franchise...
But i'd say Fae are pretty versatible and not too run in the mill

[Shjade]

I'm partial to regular ol' humans who are immortal (due to curse, magic, whatever). Interesting having someone who fits into "normal" society but has completely different values from it.

[Florence]

Dwarves

Sorry, but dwarves are just the best. Its pretty much that simple. You can all have your opinions, but you're wrong... unless your opinion is also 'dwarves are awesome'.

We'll set aside the fact that they're powerful warriors of great strength, skilled miners and peerless craftsmen. We'll even ignore the fact that they brew the best ale and can easily drink any other race under the table with little effort. We'll ignore their great mountain fortresses and impenetrable walls. Dwarves are more awesome than any other race for one simple reason.

Beards

[Galanthor]

Dwarves

Sorry, but dwarves are just the best. Its pretty much that simple. You can all have your opinions, but you're wrong... unless your opinion is also 'dwarves are awesome'.

We'll set aside the fact that they're powerful warriors of great strength, skilled miners and peerless craftsmen. We'll even ignore the fact that they brew the best ale and can easily drink any other race under the table with little effort. We'll ignore their great mountain fortresses and impenetrable walls. Dwarves are more awesome than any other race for one simple reason.

Beards

You are quite offensive.

Also...meh...the most famous dwarven fightmaneuver is throwing them, i made a little poem for you:

Elves send arrowstorms, Humans ride them down
And the little dwarves are getting thrown.

[Oniya]

Dwarves

Sorry, but dwarves are just the best. Its pretty much that simple. You can all have your opinions, but you're wrong... unless your opinion is also 'dwarves are awesome'.

We'll set aside the fact that they're powerful warriors of great strength, skilled miners and peerless craftsmen. We'll even ignore the fact that they brew the best ale and can easily drink any other race under the table with little effort. We'll ignore their great mountain fortresses and impenetrable walls. Dwarves are more awesome than any other race for one simple reason.

Beards

Mr. Oniya had a dwarven cleric in a game once.  He was a follower of Buudizer, and instead of 'Create Holy Water', he had 'Create Beer'.

[Avis habilis]

All did tremble at the sound of his battle cry, "Whazzuuuuuuuuuuuuup!"

[Florence]

To a dwarf, beer IS holy water! :U

... mixed with some holy hops, some holy barley, some holy yeast... and some holy spices and flavorings if you wanna be festive.

[Xenphir]

I prefer the elegant and beautiful creatures to things like dwarves. Such as Elves (As stated in my original post) Vampires (Though not sparkly, but I also don't like the Dracula garlic-less ones either.) Humanoid demons, dark angels/angels, things like that. ^^

Though I find Dwarves to be good for group rp's because its always nice to have one around. As long as they are the funny ones and not the rude stuck up ones.

[RedPhoenix]

Oh I like dwarves. I just don't want to play as one. Also dwarves beat up goblins and are therefore bullies!!!

[Galanthor]

don't even Goblins beat Goblins up?

[RedPhoenix]

Adorably!!!

[Galanthor]

Unfair...you keep making me awwh  :-[

[Sabby]

I love anything with human intelligence that isn't bipedal, especially if it's civilized and lives in a society build by it's own kind for it's unique body.

[Beorning]

I may be strange, but I tend to dislike fantasy species.

Okay, maybe not dislike, but... my favourite fantasy settings are those that don't have dwarves, elves and the like. I prefer the settings where humans are the most populous (or even the only one) race in the world. Like in Conan stories, or like in A Song of Ice and Fire...

That said, I used to have a soft spot for orcs. Back when I was playing MERP, I created this one character, a half-orc young woman with very traumatic past. Never got around to playing her, but she was a good creation, I think. Very mature one - one thing I don't get is the assumptions that orcs and goblins must be silly. Come on, a half-orc in the Middle Earth would be some of the most tragic characters around...

[Xenphir]

Humans are good too for many a reason. They are easy to deal with since its the species we all know the most, and simple. Though eventually they get boring, to me.

[Lancelot]

In terms of Good in the sense of morality, I do not believe you can restrict a species to this label. A demon can be morally good, often regarded as a "eudemon" as a result. Not only that, but morality is way too subjective to actually classify, since what we perceive an evildoer's "good" is most certainly not what we perceive a do-gooder's "good" is.

In terms of Good in the effectiveness degree, they're each to their own advantages and disadvantages. Elves often are held exalted (which I'm not fond off, way too overplayed) and Ogres are commonly grotesque (thank you Dragon Quest X for breaking the mold!!) If I had to say a favourite, it would simply be Dragons because they're often OP.

[Xenphir]

I think all species can be morally good too ^^

[Beorning]

Even demons? I don't think I agree. Although that kind of depends on the origin of demons in a given setting...

[Moraline]

I've always liked elves.

- They remind me of Vulcans because of the pointy ears and that is cool.
- I like the version of elf that's almost identical to humans. It makes them seem more plausible, like a simple subset of the human species.
- I also tend to like the ones that are a slightly more model like version of a human. So slim, naturally lean muscled, and youthful in appearance.

I really like all kinds of crazy Star Warsy alien races etc.. but just as a character I would most likely choose it would be elf or plain human. (I do like the Twi'leks from Star Wars too but for slightly different reasons.)

[Xenphir]

In some story I had going on, on another site, there are lots of demons and some were morally good.

[Beorning]

Hmmm. If they are morally good, then why are they demons? Demons are *evil* spirits almost by definition...

[Faolchu]

Hmmm. If they are morally good, then why are they demons? Demons are *evil* spirits almost by definition...

Not necessarily. There's several ways you can have a 'good' Demon.

1) Demons are the spirits that existed in the void before God created things. In other words, they existed before order was brought into existence. Therefore, they can bee seen as beings of chaos, with morality being separate. See the Chaosians in Roger Zelazny's Amber series for a good example of this.

2) Another theological possibility involves the view of Christianity vs. Satanism. When you boil everything down, the principle of Christianity is 'selflessness'; therefore, it's polar opposite in Satanism would be 'selfishness'. Not really good or evil, just focusing on personal pleasure and satisfaction rather than how the individual can benefit society.

Now, that's not to say that all demons in these two lights would be good, it's simply a way of showing how you could have 'good' natured demons

[RedPhoenix]

I find the idea of non-evil demons to be pretty silly myself. If they aren't evil they aren't demons and you can call them whatever.

[Moraline]

Many cultures particularly before the advent of Christianity saw the concept of demons as less a construct of evil and more one of indifference. Much like the old Greek Gods that simply saw humans as pawns. There really was very few good or evil gods. They were just gods and humans get caught up in their stories. In a way they almost all did evil things to some extent considering the callous disregard that they so often showed towards humans. Demons were more good then them.

The Demons in some myths represented aspects of nature - often that meant things like illness, storms, etc... But those weren't seen as evil, they were just a part of life. A person wouldn't think the demon of the wind as "evil" because it blew his ship off course, he would accept it as something that he got caught up in. The wind is indifferent to man's presence and blows whether he is there or not. (If I'm correct, I believe the Japanese had similar beliefs with the Oni but I could be wrong. They were just the first ones to pop into my mind.)(Scratch that last part, I had the Oni wrong.)

Demons are much like our definition of Elves which is very much influenced (for many) by things like Tolkien, the original Elf legends were much different.

[Shjade]

The concept of "morally good" is sorta useless anyway, since being "morally good" just means being good according to morality, which is subject to the individual. It basically just means you're good according to the standards of your society. So yeah, I'd imagine in demon society, most demons are "morally good." At least among demons with similar values.

[Oniya]

The word 'daemon' simply meant 'spirit' in Greek.  A writer's muse was referred to as his 'daemon'.  There were agathodaimōn (αγαθοδαιμων: "noble spirit") as well as kakódaimōn (κακοδαίμων: "malevolent spirit")  It wasn't until about the second century CE that 'demon' took on the sense of an evil being.

[Xenphir]

Interesting. I see demon as dark, not evil. Devil's though I see as evil.

[Lancelot]

Again, I would like to put forward perspective as fodder to this discussion: surely a Devil's "good" is what we perceive as "evil", and therefore through this a Devil is good, by being evil?

[Xenphir]

Perhaps. Many saw Hades as evil, though he was just doing the job he was forced with, taking care of the afterlife.

[Oniya]

Again, the Greeks didn't see Hades as particularly evil.  The underworld was home to both Tartarus (where the damned were tormented) and the Elysium Fields (where the blessed were rewarded).

[Lancelot]

To be fair, the Greeks were not the only people to have a perspective opinion about Hades. Xenphir's point is very valid - take a look at Disney's depiction of Hades, for example; though with inaccuracies, each has their own opinion to something, and rightly so. There's nothing wrong with seeing Hades as evil.

[Xenphir]

I never said the greeks :o I mean because of, like lancelot said, say Disney's perspective, even kids see hades as some blue evil guy. My point was that no matter how it seems, someone that is 'evil' isn't neccesarily.

So to add another one a personal example~ In an rp I'm doing MC is being guarded and protected by a demon, but has also been kept captive in the demons home, though it is for his protection. I think the demon probably has just a darker more unusual (Nothing a human would do to protect another human) way of protecting. It isn't really evil since MC isn't in pain, and actually has 'love' for the demon, but other humans besides the one I play, like NPC's walking the streets etc would see it as evil or a crime.

[Moraline]

Interesting. I see demon as dark, not evil. Devil's though I see as evil.

(Note: Hades and the Devil are not one in the same. The Devil is a construct of several mythological figures or he is the absolute Devil (Anti-God) of christian religion, depending on your personal religious perspective.)

I think because the Devil is strictly a construct of Christianity that when referenced alongside that, "The Devil" is evil by that value systems description. Although because it's strictly a christian thing there really are no devils. Just the one Devil. So, it can't even considered a fantasy race.

If you were to recreate it as a fantasy race of "devils" then there is little reason that it couldn't be something entirely different and have completely differing values/morals. You could make them flower loving, non-violent, two foot tall creatures if you wanted to.

I feel that's the biggest flaw with this entire thread. There is no good to use race for fantasy/Sci-Fi settings of any kind. Each race is usually something you can completely rewrite and make your own. Limiting yourself when most "known" races have wide and varied mythology anyways seems kind of silly to me. Unless you really happen to like the very specific aspects of one very specific race from one very specific set of stories. Then there needs to be qualifiers to the reason for choosing any specific race.

The topic would do better as a question of what physical traits you like to see in fantasy races. IE: Pointy ears, tails, fur, fangs, scales, human sized, tiny sized, giant sized, one eye, or three eyes.  And/or whatever traits you like to see - such as mental, moral, cultural etc...

[Xenphir]

(Note: Hades and the Devil are not one in the same. The Devil is a construct of several mythological figures or he is the absolute Devil (Anti-God) of christian religion, depending on your personal religious perspective.)

I think because the Devil is strictly a construct of Christianity that when referenced alongside that, "The Devil" is evil by that value systems description. Although because it's strictly a christian thing there really are no devils. Just the one Devil. So, it can't even considered a fantasy race.

If you were to recreate it as a fantasy race of "devils" then there is little reason that it couldn't be something entirely different and have completely differing values/morals. You could make them flower loving, non-violent, two foot tall creatures if you wanted to.

I feel that's the biggest flaw with this entire thread. There is no good to use race for fantasy/Sci-Fi settings of any kind. Each race is usually something you can completely rewrite and make your own. Limiting yourself when most "known" races have wide and varied mythology anyways seems kind of silly to me. Unless you really happen to like the very specific aspects of one very specific race from one very specific set of stories. Then there needs to be qualifiers to the reason for choosing any specific race.

The topic would do better as a question of what physical traits you like to see in fantasy races. IE: Pointy ears, tails, fur, fangs, scales, human sized, tiny sized, giant sized, one eye, or three eyes.  And/or whatever traits you like to see - such as mental, moral, cultural etc...

Didn't say there were the same.

Though that is true about the 'Devil' I think this debate is a good one. Hearing how people see the darker side of beings not being evil after all is nice to what I'm used to hearing on other sites. I think if we all just sat here naming off traits of fantasy races it wouldn't be as interesting :3 Though that is also open for discussion if they wish. It is not just based off whether a species or race is good or bad, I made this thread to get opinions of all features of races, not just one point of them.

So anyone could easily join in saying they prefer elves' for their wonderful pointy ears in which makes them cute. ^^

[Beorning]

Though that is true about the 'Devil' I think this debate is a good one. Hearing how people see the darker side of beings not being evil after all is nice to what I'm used to hearing on other sites.

Ha! Define "dark", though. Do you mean that in the Hades sense? He is, indeed, dark but not evil.

[Xenphir]

Ha! Define "dark", though. Do you mean that in the Hades sense? He is, indeed, dark but not evil.

That's what I mean. Dark isn't always evil. By dark I mean vampires/demons. Creatures of the shadows or death etc.

[Blythe]

Hmmmm, as for fantasy races I've always liked...I've always had a fondness for centaurs. Demons and drow are also favorites of mine.

I play a lot of D&D, and I really liked devils (baatezu) in D&D.

I've always liked dwarves, too, and I usually like them better than elves. They have tenacity, and I like that.

Oh! And nagas. I love nagas. <3

[Xenphir]

Centaurs are always forgotten by me xD Though they seem like awesome creatures to me ^^

[ofDelusions]

The word 'daemon' simply meant 'spirit' in Greek.  A writer's muse was referred to as his 'daemon'.  There were agathodaimōn (αγαθοδαιμων: "noble spirit") as well as kakódaimōn (κακοδαίμων: "malevolent spirit")  It wasn't until about the second century CE that 'demon' took on the sense of an evil being.

So you mean demons got...

8-)

..Demonised?

[RedPhoenix]

Oh! And nagas. I love nagas. <3

Yes this is true, never saw a version of nagas I didn't like for some reason or another!

Ooooh nagas and goblins working together. My minions are getting stronger. *rubs hands together and plots*

[Oniya]

So you mean demons got...

8-)

..Demonised?

*ba-dum-tish*

Also worth noting along those lines:  The word 'satan' is Hebrew for 'adversary' in the sense of 'opposing counsel'.  So you might say that Lucifer (the light-bearer) is a

( •_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■-■)

Devil's advocate.

[Blythe]

Ooooh nagas and goblins working together. My minions are getting stronger. *rubs hands together and plots*

....I really really want to see an army of goblins and nagas working to overthrow the more common fantasy races. This would be kind of badass. <3

So you mean demons got...

8-)

..Demonised?

....*gigglesnort*

[Xenphir]

Nagas are cool :O

[Sasquatch421]

I've always been partial to Dragons, Teiflings and Halflings... Oh and Kender! Tasslehoff Burrfoot always brightens up my day... The interaction between Tas and the Gold Dragon Evenstar in Dragons of the Dwarven Depths was golden! Erin Evan's Brimstone Angels books are awesome as well..

[Koyume]

Doesn't seem like anyone's said Dhampir yet, so I'll go with that. Granted, I don't know of many actual established dhampir characters that I like (one that I do like is D, from Vampire Hunter D), but the premise is cool, and has all kinds of smexy potential.

[RedPhoenix]

Some motherfuckers always tryin' to ice skate uphill.

[King Serperior]

Good fantasy species?  Well.....I really am fond of Lamia/Naga, perhaps some Centaur thrown in for good measure  ;)

[Lancelot]

Since we're on the topic of 'taurs' I would highly recommend a Minotaur. They're an embodiment of brute force.

[Oniya]

Felitaurs are kind of fun, too.  I like the idea of thinking about how a 'taur culture would differ (especially technologically) from the standard bipedal configuration.

[Xenphir]

I like all taurs so far, but the felitaur is new to me. Sounds like an amazing cat :O

[Nadir]

My favourite mythical creatures are reptile-based, mostly. Winged snakes, Quetzalcoatl, dragons, nagas... yup, they are wonderful fun ^w^

[RedPhoenix]

Cattaur talk reminds me of Wemics.



Pretty awesome.  ^-^

[Nadir]

I don't know why but that reminds me of owlbears

[Moraline]

Thundercats?

[Oniya]

Cattaur talk reminds me of Wemics.



Pretty awesome.  ^-^

I couldn't remember the D&D name, but yes.  I've also seen them with other great cats (like tigers and panthers).

[Lancelot]

I wonder how well a Canitaur would work.

[Hemingway]

Magic the Gathering has a few I like. Kor, for instance, are pretty neat. Magic also has some interesting takes on more traditional fantasy races, like the elves of Lorwyn, who have horns ( and hooves, I believe ). And humans ( and other creatures ) of a particular shard of Alara, Esper, all of whom have body parts replaced with metal. Which makes them look badass.

I'm also very much a fan of vampires. In particular World of Darkness vampires, the more traditional Dracula type, and the vampires from the MtG plane Zendikar, who have a more tribal society.

What, else, what else?

[Lancelot]

Can you mention Vampires without mentioning their counterfoil? Werewolves, or Therianthropes in general are an amazing species - or, at least form of a species.

[Xenphir]

Werewolves are an odd species to me. No idea why but I always forget about them. xD

[Oniya]

I made a race of semi-controlled therianthropes in the first (still unpublished) book I ever wrote.  I thought 'Why should wolves have all the attention?'  :D

[Jag]

My favourite mythical creatures are reptile-based, mostly. Winged snakes, Quetzalcoatl, dragons, nagas... yup, they are wonderful fun ^w^

Scales are of the good. *nods*

[Madriv]

I'm partial to satyrs/fauns. And lacking them, I'll add to the dwarf vote. FEARD THE BEARD!

;)

[Inkidu]

I like humanoid merfolk (no fish tails, but legs).

Also, winged humanoid bird people. I generally refer to them as buteos.

[Zekromnomnom]

I really like lizardfolk. I haven't actually seen them used in any fantasy stuff in a way I really liked, but I always liked the idea and I think it would be cool to see something like a D&D setting where they play a larger role. Also, frog people. Just because I think it's a neat idea. Which is weird, because in real life I hate swampy marshy places, but I think they're neat in a fantasy kind of setting.

Also, I tend to like any time someone does something to sort of flip a common fantasy trope on its head. The only example I can think of is how Eberron handles some of the common races, half-orcs and goblinoids, but still. I like seeing those kinds of things.

[Florence]

I like humanoid merfolk (no fish tails, but legs).

Also, winged humanoid bird people. I generally refer to them as buteos.

Isn't a mermaid with legs just a woman?

[Oniya]

Isn't a mermaid with legs just a woman?

...who can breathe underwater, possibly through gills.  Since this is the public side of the site, I'm going to leave the significance of not needing to use a trachea (or more precisely, not needing to open the epiglottis) to the imagination.

[Gob Bee]

Pink humanoids generally bore the crap out of me, with exception to dwarves and hobbits.

I won't get into how morals cannot be applied to a whole race (elves can never be 100% good, anything that's green can't be 100% evil no matter how hard people try to write them as such).

As for favorite races? Sentient zombies (liches), anything reptilian or amphibian, ogres, trolls, goblins, orcs, bugbears, the like. My DM knows better than to make bad guys out of any of those races, I'll just bring them to our side and/or annoy the hell out of him by calling him a speciest for a week until he gives in.

I always like bringing out my goblin librarian or half-orc shaman (whose parents are happily married, by the by, and the mother is the orc) to shush the nay-sayers.

[Inkidu]

Isn't a mermaid with legs just a woman?

They still have scales and fins and webbed feet/hands. :P

Just no giant lower-body encompassing fish tail.

[Drake Valentine]

*Takes out his list.*

Harpies
Naga
Demons
Mimics
Orcs
Minotaurs
Satrys(sp?)
Chimeras
Alraune
Goblins
Mermaids
Dark Elves/Drow (Whichever some may relate to them as, but I think they are different?)
Gargoyles
Sphinxes

Bold are personal favorites.

And other monstrous humanoids and things of that ilk.

But out of all that, I do believe I like Minotaurs the best. I mean, who doesn't like a huge brute smashing face in, wearing a loin cloth? Kind of like, medieval Hulks but less green and more hairy....

[Zekromnomnom]

Something I forgot to mention, since I've been on a huge Skyrim kick lately. I love the idea of the Falmer.

A few other more...I dunno, kind of out there concepts I like are the idea of ghouls, but not the undead kind, more like the way they were in...I think it was some Lovecraft story? Where basically they're just like deformed cannibal humans? And speaking of Lovecraft, the half human half fish people from that one story. Where the humans in this fishing village fell on hard times and they were offered prosperity and immortality if they would breed with these fish monsters that I think were servants of Dagon, but I might be mixing some things up. These just seem like good things for scarier kinds of stories.

And one more I like is the idea from Final Fantasy IX where the

Spoiler: Click to Show/Hide

Black Mages are like living dolls that are made in a factory.

Also Freya's species.

[Oniya]

Something I forgot to mention, since I've been on a huge Skyrim kick lately. I love the idea of the Falmer.

A few other more...I dunno, kind of out there concepts I like are the idea of ghouls, but not the undead kind, more like the way they were in...I think it was some Lovecraft story? Where basically they're just like deformed cannibal humans?

Pickman's Model was the story.

And speaking of Lovecraft, the half human half fish people from that one story. Where the humans in this fishing village fell on hard times and they were offered prosperity and immortality if they would breed with these fish monsters that I think were servants of Dagon, but I might be mixing some things up. These just seem like good things for scarier kinds of stories.

The village was Innsmouth, and several of his stories refer to someone having 'the Innsmouth look'.

[Zekromnomnom]

Pickman's Model was the story.

The village was Innsmouth, and several of his stories refer to someone having 'the Innsmouth look'.

Okay, thank you. I never got around to reading the first and I think I just watched a movie based on the second. But I appreciate your knowledge :)

[Oniya]

H.P. is a favorite of mine, too.  :-)

[Inkidu]

Also Freya's species.

They're humanoid rats.