What's in the News? 2.0

Started by Tolvo, January 16, 2019, 05:34:38 AM

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Skynet

Quote from: IrishWolf on January 21, 2019, 02:29:56 PM
I agree, doing the tomahawk chop at a Native American, is mocking and could be racist.

However, from what I saw, it look like the students thought they were doing it with Mr. Phillips, not at him. They've just finished a sports cheer, he walks up, beating his drum and stands before them for a few seconds, as if he's joining them. What might be the first Native American themed sports thing that jumps to mind? Was it a good choice? No but it could be understandable. The students are bouncing to the beat, they sound happy, not mocking. The people filming note that Mr. Phillips has calmed them down. Not to mention, from the video, it looks like they've all stopped, when Mr. Phillips comes face to face Mr. Sandmann and the situation turns awkward.

If we're going into hypothetical motivations...

President Trump is also notable for using the Tomahawk Chop to mock Senator Warren. And if you're the type of person to wear a MAGA hat in public, high schooler or no, you'd probably be familiar with that too.

Skynet

PS Do we know the ages of the high school students in question? Although the longer video provides good context, it should probably be changed to a link to stay in line with Elliquiy's rules if any of them are under 18.

IrishWolf

Quote from: Skynet on January 21, 2019, 03:01:15 PM
If we're going into hypothetical motivations...

President Trump is also notable for using the Tomahawk Chop to mock Senator Warren. And if you're the type of person to wear a MAGA hat in public, high schooler or no, you'd probably be familiar with that too.

Is it not hypothetical to assume its a racist taunt? On the part of the students I mean. You've made a case for Trump, clearly mocking someone and sure, perhaps some of the students knew and were mocking. We wont ever know, we can't read their minds. Its just as possible that students doing sports cheers, switched to a sports cheer in theme with the drumming. It looks like to me, that the students were trying to do a cheer with Mr. Phillips, seeing as it looked like at the beginning, like he was joining their group. Others can read it differently

As to their ages, I don't know but I can't edit my post.

Sara Nilsson

Junior high school so what. 16 to 17?

Skynet

Quote from: IrishWolf on January 21, 2019, 03:14:44 PM
Is it not hypothetical to assume its a racist taunt? On the part of the students I mean. You've made a case for Trump, clearly mocking someone and sure, perhaps some of the students knew and were mocking. We wont ever know, we can't read their minds. Its just as possible that students doing sports cheers, switched to a sports cheer in theme with the drumming. It looks like to me, that the students were trying to do a cheer with Mr. Phillips, seeing as it looked like at the beginning, like he was joining their group. Others can read it differently

As to their ages, I don't know but I can't edit my post.

I meant hypothetical in the sense that you're assuming the chop was made as a good-nature show of camraderie to the drummer when it can also mean and be read as something else. The rest of your post seems to understand and agree with that, so I'm confused as to your confusion on this matter.

Judging by your Tim Pool link, I presume you agree with the ultraconservative and Trump supporting side of the story. And given that the "build the wall" chant is in dispute, it's understandable to worry about the effects of a false news story being blown out of control.

It may well be the case that the high school students didn't say "build the wall." And black anti-semites may be looking to start a fight. But that doesn't automatically mean that the MAGA fans in question have clean hands as with the sports gesture their idol used to mock Native heritage.

On one hand I feel that a lot of young people can easily get swept up in fads or go against the grain to rebel. Trump's brand of alt-righty "fuck PC culture" can be quite appealing as a stand against moral media guardians. Lord knows I did and said a lot of foolish things around that age, and if any were caught on social media I'd be quite horrified. Chances are they're feeling worried over the doxxing and other things which are unjustifiable.

But on the other hand I think that by your mid to late teens, especially in the digital age, if you're going around in public you should project good behavior. At that age I also knew better than to make race jokes in public, and to be fair Trump has said and done so many hateful things that even many teenagers are aware of what kinds of messages he's sending. The dancing along with or smiling to the beat may not necessarily mean camraderie. Many people with bigoted feelings don't mind minorities when they're entertaining them.

IrishWolf

Quote from: Skynet on January 21, 2019, 03:34:38 PM
I meant hypothetical in the sense that you're assuming the chop was made as a good-nature show of camraderie to the drummer when it can also mean and be read as something else. The rest of your post seems to understand and agree with that, so I'm confused as to your confusion on this matter.

Judging by your Tim Pool link, I presume you agree with the ultraconservative and Trump supporting side of the story. And given that the "build the wall" chant is in dispute, it's understandable to worry about the effects of a false news story being blown out of control.

It may well be the case that the high school students didn't say "build the wall." And black anti-semites may be looking to start a fight. But that doesn't automatically mean that the MAGA fans in question have clean hands as with the sports gesture their idol used to mock Native heritage.

On one hand I feel that a lot of young people can easily get swept up in fads or go against the grain to rebel. Trump's brand of alt-righty "fuck PC culture" can be quite appealing as a stand against moral media guardians. Lord knows I did and said a lot of foolish things around that age, and if any were caught on social media I'd be quite horrified. Chances are they're feeling worried over the doxxing and other things which are unjustifiable.

But on the other hand I think that by your mid to late teens, especially in the digital age, if you're going around in public you should project good behavior. At that age I also knew better than to make race jokes in public, and to be fair Trump has said and done so many hateful things that even many teenagers are aware of what kinds of messages he's sending. The dancing along with or smiling to the beat may not necessarily mean camraderie. Many people with bigoted feelings don't mind minorities when they're entertaining them.

I meant hypothetical in the sense of one assuming the chop was made as a mockery, when it can also be used as a sports cheer to support someone. You made a clear cut case for when it was used to mock someone. This is not a clear cut case. Arguments can be made for either direction.

I am baffled that you'd think Tim Pool is conservative or that it's ultraconservative to be concerned about a false new story, which had resulted in a kid getting death threats and the fallout he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life, as I have described in past posts. As to the "Build the wall" chant, I'd say that is disproved. I've seen videos from different angles and distances, it cannot be heard. Even CNN has published "Those chants were not audible in videos reviewed by CNN."

Skynet

Quote from: IrishWolf on January 21, 2019, 04:11:31 PM
I meant hypothetical in the sense of one assuming the chop was made as a mockery, when it can also be used as a sports cheer to support someone. You made a clear cut case for when it was used to mock someone. This is not a clear cut case. Arguments can be made for either direction.

I am baffled that you'd think Tim Pool is conservative or that it's ultraconservative to be concerned about a false new story, which had resulted in a kid getting death threats and the fallout he'll have to deal with for the rest of his life, as I have described in past posts. As to the "Build the wall" chant, I'd say that is disproved. I've seen videos from different angles and distances, it cannot be heard. Even CNN has published "Those chants were not audible in videos reviewed by CNN."

Well it ain't the political left or center who are saying that private enterprises should host Alex Jones' content, or making videos with these kinds of thumbnails, that's for sure:




Iniquitous

First - I do not agree with what the Black Hebrew Israelites were saying.  I personally find it disgusting but it is their First Amendment Right and I would not deny them that right.
Second - No.  Just NO.  Those students were not trying to "cheer with" Nathan Phillips.  That much is evident by their expressions and their actions.
Third - The mother could have just as easily watched the videos and heard the scriptures being thrown out and realized they were not Islamic.  The mother threw out that defense of her precious bigoted son because there are three types of people who are blamed for everything in the states. Blacks, Muslims, and Hispanics - she thought if she blamed his behavior on black muslims the narrative would change in favor of her son.

I understand wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt, but no.  This is a case of hateful students acting like immature toddlers that needed to be handled by adults.  The hateful rhetoric has been so prevalent since the mango mussolini took office and this is just another example of it.

Bow to the Queen; I'm the Alpha, the Omega, everything in between.


Silk

Quote from: Skynet on January 21, 2019, 04:24:38 PM
Well it ain't the political left or center who are saying that private enterprises should host Alex Jones' content, or making videos with these kinds of thumbnails, that's for sure:


Well to quote Tim pool's favorite saying (Besides oh my stars and garters) is "There is nuance here"

I don't know much about the Maga kids situation personally (Being in the UK and all), but as a rule, if there is flaws in what someone reported and shown to be false (For exmple the claim the kids approached the Native american when in actuality he approached them), then you should treat everything they say from that point on with a grain of salt and look deeper into the situation. Because they've already shown to be fallible once.

Tolvo

https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/trump-v-karnoski/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/scotus-trump-transgender-military-ban_us_5c472a91e4b027c3bbc58f50?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

Scotus ruled 5 to 4 apparently in favor of Trump for his military ban on transgender soldiers. With Trump's stolen justice seat sealing the deal. There are still appeals being made, but apparently it will go into effect due to this ruling.

https://twitter.com/chasestrangio/status/1087722995899092993

Chase Strangio, a trans man who is a part of the ACLU, has said they will be fighting this gross bigotry in court.

TheGlyphstone

Who do you appeal a SCOTUS ruling to?

Tolvo

Uh I found this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_supreme_court

"As noted above, the U.S. Supreme Court may hear appeals from state supreme courts only if there is a question of law under the United States Constitution (which includes issues arising from federal treaties, statutes, or regulations), and those appeals are heard at the Court's sole discretion (that is, only if the Court grants a petition for writ of certiorari).

In theory, state supreme courts are bound by the precedent established by the U.S. Supreme Court as to all issues of federal law, but in practice, the Supreme Court reviews very few decisions from state courts. For example, in 2007 the Court reviewed 244 cases appealed from federal courts and only 22 from state courts. Despite the relatively small number of decisions reviewed, Professors Sara Benesh and Wendy Martinek found that state supreme courts follow precedent more closely than federal courts in the area of search and seizure and appear to follow precedent in confessions as well."

But I'm not really sure, and-

"One of the informal traditions of the American legal system, derived from the common law, is that all litigants are guaranteed at least one appeal after a final judgment on the merits. However, appeal is merely a privilege provided by statute in 47 states and in federal judicial proceedings; the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that there is no federal constitutional right to an appeal.[1]

Since a few states lack intermediate appellate courts, the state supreme court may operate under "mandatory review", in which it must hear all appeals from the trial courts. This was the case, for example, in Nevada (prior to 2014). Such judicial systems are usually very congested.[2]

Most state supreme courts have implemented "discretionary review," like their federal counterpart. Under such a system, intermediate appellate courts are entrusted with deciding the vast majority of appeals. Intermediate appellate courts generally focus on the mundane task of what appellate specialists call "error correction,"[3] which means their primary task is to decide whether the record reflects that the trial court correctly applied existing law."

There may be basically no real way to do so unless they can find it in violation of certain state constitutions. And the Supreme Court can possibly just say it doesn't care, I'm not sure on that though. I hope there's actually a check to balance this but I don't know if there is.

Regina Minx

Quote from: TheGlyphstone on January 22, 2019, 09:48:05 AM
Who do you appeal a SCOTUS ruling to?

Generally speaking, there is not. The SCOTUS is the court of final appeals. However, the ruling issued today might have been a very narrow aspect of the policy or a single question raised in a lower court case, such as whether or not the policy should be stayed pending the outcome of the litigation process.

TheGlyphstone


Tolvo

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/22/politics/scotus-transgender-ban/index.html?adkey=bn

It should be mentioned also some more information. The Supreme Court was told by Trump's government to take up the case on the transgender military ban. They refused to as of right now, but, ruled it should go into effect before lower court rulings could make a ruling. Basically, they didn't want to hear the case or let a lower court handle it, and decided to rule on it despite not actually taking it on and allow it to go through. 5 to 4. They have not stated the ban is valid and legal, just ruled that they want it to go into effect before lower courts could rule on it. To note, only the conservative justices(One which Trump installed after Republicans stole it quite literally from Obama) voted in favor of this while the liberal justices voted against it.

Skynet

Quote from: Silk on January 22, 2019, 06:48:48 AM
Well to quote Tim pool's favorite saying (Besides oh my stars and garters) is "There is nuance here"

I don't know much about the Maga kids situation personally (Being in the UK and all), but as a rule, if there is flaws in what someone reported and shown to be false (For exmple the claim the kids approached the Native american when in actuality he approached them), then you should treat everything they say from that point on with a grain of salt and look deeper into the situation. Because they've already shown to be fallible once.

I don't see how that contradicts my point about Pool not being a right-winger. I even acknowledged earlier in this thread that if IrishWolf posted Pool's video in isolation without the full footage I'd be much more skeptical of the post.

And I'm sorry but if your YouTube Channel posts garbage like that then you're not a centrist. I'd have infinitely more respect for right-wingers if they didn't pretend that their views were middle of the road.


IrishWolf

Quote from: Skynet on January 21, 2019, 04:24:38 PM
Well it ain't the political left or center who are saying that private enterprises should host Alex Jones' content, or making videos with these kinds of thumbnails, that's for sure:

Clickbaity thumbnails and not the content of those videos, make Tim Pool a right winger? Did you even watch any of his content?




In other news Twitter suspends account that helped ignite controversy over viral encounter
Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats.
The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.


It would appear that the account that was pushing the short, edited video, is a fake.

TheGlyphstone

Russia wasnt bad enough, now Brazil is getting in on the pot-stirring action?

Skynet

Quote from: IrishWolf on January 22, 2019, 04:49:16 PM
Clickbaity thumbnails and not the content of those videos, make Tim Pool a right winger? Did you even watch any of his content?

I did not know how many of his videos had minors in them so I used thumbnails rather than links. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I took time out to watch his gaming culture war video. He spoke of GamerGate as people being tired of "politics" in gaming driven by the far left. When it was in actuality a harassment campaign by Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend which was repurposed by the political right. And the point of his video is that a private company enforcing its terms of service on toxic behavior for gaming platforms people paid for. And used Pepe memes as one of his example due to its association with hate groups. 5:20 mark he denies that Pepe has been reappropriated by hate groups and that the actual amount of hatemongers is small and inconsequential.

6:30 he claims that "gamers" are the enemies of the mainstream left. Which is an interesting claim to make, as there are video and tabletop gaming enthusiasts of all political persuasions. He's pushing a false narrative that most gamers are apolitical, which isn't really true in this day and age.

7:10 points to physical sports which are male-dominated. Pulls the "why aren't we talking about X issue?" logical fallacy. Because people are talking about gender issues in mainstream sports, especially in regards to transgender people participating in mainstream sports.

8:23 talks directly about GamerGate. Forgets to talk about the 4chan chat logs and Quinn's boyfriend using it initially to use it to attack her and feminist groups in gaming.

9:25 claims that moderating chat rooms is tied into regressive authoritarianism when this is standard for most

10:15 says that PewDiePie was maligned for being called a Nazi. This video was uploaded in December 28th, 2018. This was after not one, but three fiascos:

PewDiePie using edgy shock humor to pay some people to hold up a sign saying "Kill All Jews" to see if they'd actually write anything for $5

PewDiePie calling another gamer the N word in anger

PewDiePie recommending the YouTuber E;R who puts anti-Semitic and white supremacist propaganda in his videos.

Here's E;R talking on the social media site Gab about how to ease people into The Jewish Question.

This is why people call PewDiePie a fascist, Nazi, fellow traveler, etc. He keeps making the same mistake and not learning from it. Or he doesn't care. Or he may privately agree.

Oh, and here's the description for Tim Pool's own video:

QuoteGamers Are Test Subjects In The Culture War, Speech Policing Escalates after Blizzard announced you would have to tie your gaming account to a separate platform if you wanted to chat.
This opens gamers up to the risk that if they say bad things they could have their games revoked.

Far left activist types push for ideology in gaming and esports which results in formerly apolitical people becoming active against these ideas. But why is it always gaming and where are those on the Left speaking out against this terrifying authoritarian push?

Previously we saw Overwatch league crackdown on "pepe memes" which is downright strange. It seems like the Culture war is someone personal and there are people targeting gaming culture for malicious reasons.

#Gamers
#FreeSpeech
#SocialJustice


So in conclusion, we have a man who...

Does SJWs ARE CANCER THUMBNAILS

Thinks that banninng people for hateful speech/rulebreaking is authoritarian

Omits information on GamerGate's sexist origins

Defends PewDiePie after those above stunts

Claims that most leftists hate gamers and games.

Those are textbook right-wing talking points.

QuoteIn other news Twitter suspends account that helped ignite controversy over viral encounter
Twitter suspended an account on Monday afternoon that helped spread a controversial encounter between a Native American elder and a group of high school students wearing Make America Great Again hats.
The account claimed to belong to a California schoolteacher. Its profile photo was not of a schoolteacher, but of a blogger based in Brazil, CNN Business found. Twitter suspended the account soon after CNN Business asked about it.


It would appear that the account that was pushing the short, edited video, is a fake.

I have no disagreement with you on this. The MAGA supporters were most likely not saying a racist Build the Wall chant, but did do a racist gesture directly towards a Native American. Which isn't exactly good, either.



Missy

In fairness to Felix, and I'm not a fan, he did edit the video to disinclude the aforementioned Nazi after it was brought to his attention.

The rest I know not about.

Tolvo

But Pewdiepie didn't do so when it was brought to his attention. He did it when he was caught. He referenced that the video of the Nazi he recommended that he watched was the Death Note video and the specific one, which contains Nazi messages and footage of Charlottesville of Heather Heyer's being killed and claims Heather Heyers died of a heart attack because her name was written into a Death Note and since there was no other way for her to die she died of a heart attack. And he commented on and liked the video.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/10/18134748/pewdiepie-er-pewnews-youtube-hateful-content-anti-semitic

It kind of requires believing PewDiePie keeps accidentally just repeating Nazi talking points and sharing their beliefs and promoting them while openly stating that he watched specific things containing those slogans made by explicit Nazis. People who even the slightest look would reveal they are Nazis especially when the video he watched does.

Missy

Well, like I said, I'm not fan and I don't follow him too closely, I could easily be mistaken; I only attempt to represent information accurately to the best of my understanding, which I should do.