Tweets from Sochi

[Torch]

Now granted, this was from the New York Post website, so take them with a grain of salt. But the general sentiment seems to be these Olympic Games are a clusterfuck in the making.

Sochi hotel conditions not exactly five star

It’s like they’re back in the U.S.S.R. — athletes and fans staying in Sochi for the Winter Olympics say hotels are so shabby and bare-bones, they could pass for shanties from the Stalin era.

Hotel sinks spit toxic yellow water, toilets barely flush and half-built hotel lobbies have lured mangy packs of stray dogs, say visitors frustrated by cold and cramped conditions.           
 
“My hotel has no water. If restored, the front desk says, “do not use on your face because it contains something very dangerous,” tweeted visitor Stacy St. Clair, along with a photo of the eerie glowing liquid.

“Went to buy water … got accosted by 3-legged dog,” another visitor griped.

Three out of nine hotels in Sochi’s “mountain complex,” where many media members are staying , are only partly built — some dirty with shoddy electricity and no heat, the sports blog Deadspin.com reports.

Players on Canada’s hockey team were even forced to sleep, shoulder to shoulder, on hotel beds so narrow they could pass for a prison inmate’s.

Vladimir Putin spent seven years and $51 billion to prepare for the world renowned winter games — but many of the hotels were scrambling to get their acts together just three days before the games begin, visitors said.

In some cases, tired construction workers were spotted sleeping on-site at half-built hotels — and even the plumbing wasn’t up to par, visitors griped.

“Please do not flush toilet paper… Put it in the bin provided,” bathroom signs proclaim.

Guests, including reporters covering the games, took to Twitter to gripe about third-world accommodations.

[Callie Del Noire]

Sounds like the Russians will be taking it on the chin.

I wonder how many oligarchs skimmed the building profits?

[Shjade]

"half-built hotel lobbies have lured mangy packs of stray dogs"

...wow.

[consortium11]

Just to pick up on one point:

“Please do not flush toilet paper… Put it in the bin provided,” bathroom signs proclaim.

This isn't entirely unusual; off the top of my head parts of Greece (Corfu for example) tend to have similar issues.

Not to say that the entire thing isn't a shambles...

[Neysha]

I wonder if they could flush toilets in an Athens hotel around the summer of 2004 or so.

[Neysha]

It does seem rather awful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/01/27/sochi-blog-johnnie-balfour-olympics_n_4674580.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/04/journalists-at-sochi-are-live-tweeting-their-hilarious-and-gross-hotel-experiences/

[Oniya]

It's not that you can't flush the toilets - it's that the sewer/septic system isn't built to handle the paper.  (Or the TP isn't the type to break down as quickly as even the industrial-grade stuff in school bathrooms here.)  It's like you can't flush wet-wipes or paper towels in the States without risking a clog.

That said, the running water and the sleeping accommodations should have been up to some degree of 'taken care of', considering that the Sochi Olympics have been in the works for how many years now? That's one of the reasons that the locations are picked so far in advance, isn't it?  To give the hosting country time to get the infrastructure ready to handle all the visiting athletes, dignitaries, and media.

[kylie]

       Yeah, much of the world doesn't put toilet paper down the toilet pipes actually.  There are some funny assumptions going around, when "Third World conditions" seem to cover very many places apart from the US.  (And I'm not sure about Canada, hee.)

        I'm thinking environmental and building (both plumbing and more extra comforts to aesthetic) standards are also something more specific to the US.  Granted I have generally been either a student or a budget traveler.  But my general understanding is that many parts of the world put the emphasis on keeping people somewhat "neat," and buildings merely (more or less) functional background. 

        Even among "mid-range" hotels, it's somewhat common to have buildings with a fancier "face" and less in the way of what Americans consider normal infrastructure:  The lobby is nicer and maybe you get some nicer looking old furniture in the room (in more expensive places)...  If you're lucky, they have soft bedding and some serious pillows.  Yet things like truly hot, power showers are more of a luxury.  By now I'm more surprised if you get a great shower, and I don't mind as much if the bed is old, small or lumpy.  (In some countries, often eating meat is a luxury for half the population, sooo yeah you get a short bed big deal...)

         Even some US cities are not really that great for tap water...   But you have to watch that a little more in oil towns around Asia, I'm finding.

[Neysha]

I demand more outrage from you people.

How are the athletes supposed to have an Olympic level orgy like in Vancouver without first class accommodations as are typically provided.

[Kythia]

Eh, I find that sub par accommodation really adds to the ambience of an orgy.  It's all very well licking some stranger in a penthouse suite but you never feely really degraded unless you're on a cheap stained mattress with damp on the walls.

Or at least that's what I read somewhere.

[Shjade]

Undrinkable glowing water might be a step too far toward that authentic grunge feel though, Kythia. ;p

[Driskoll]

After reading this thread I stumbled upon a news story that kind of relates. It really has more to do with the corruption surrounding Sochi than the shabby hotels, but I thought some here may find it interesting. I apologize in advance if it's too off topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_MBOeqSYVk

[kylie]

Undrinkable glowing water might be a step too far toward that authentic grunge feel though, Kythia. ;p

       Glowing?  Or perhaps I should ask what goggles you're wearing to view the glow...  I know a fine, otherwise very fashionable little city where on some scattered days after pipe work, the bathroom sink "spurts" back on in little blasts.  And what comes out for the first few minutes is quite seriously as much oil as water.  I mean splashes of black and bubbly, viscous ooze.  If it's glowing, I can't make it out with the naked eye.  Not beyond some reflection off the inky bubbles on my sink, anyway. 

        And then?  We clean it up for a few minutes.  Many now have separate pipes for kitchen versus bathroom.  A good few people whose building layouts were amenable, had half their pipes redone at considerable expense to route in water from a safer source.  Some use the pricey Western hotel gym showers instead...  But mostly, life goes on.  Though I doubt many people would think about drinking from those taps, unless that's their particular fetish.   :P

[Oniya]

“My hotel has no water. If restored, the front desk says, “do not use on your face because it contains something very dangerous,” tweeted visitor Stacy St. Clair, along with a photo of the eerie glowing liquid.

Apparently, nothing more sophisticated than an ordinary camera lens.

The ability to drink from the bathroom tap may be one thing, but I kind of expect to be able to wash my face in the bathroom.  It's difficult to wash one's hair while keeping one's face completely dry as well.

[Callie Del Noire]

Yeah but given the fact that Putin pretty much has bought and paid for his position, short of a massive architectural disaster (like that skill jump sliding down the hill in mid completion) I don't see anything coming of it in Russia.

Of course the NEXT time they try to do an Olympics...I'm sure the comitte will be reminded ENDLESSLY about it.

[Zakharra]

Yeah but given the fact that Putin pretty much has bought and paid for his position, short of a massive architectural disaster (like that skill jump sliding down the hill in mid completion) I don't see anything coming of it in Russia.

Of course the NEXT time they try to do an Olympics...I'm sure the comitte will be reminded ENDLESSLY about it.

I just had a mental image of how the history will be written that the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 will be remembered (in the official history books in Russia) as one of the best since the Soviet days;

Journalist: "Well, the games are over and thank God it's over! The accommodations were bad and the infrastructure in bad shape. Aside from the athletic events, I'll say this has been one of the worst Oylim-" the journalist is interrupted by a group of tall broad men in sunglasses and wearing winter greatcoats.

Goon 1: "You giving report on Olympics, yes? It was good. One of the best on record. So says Russian government."

Journalist: "Uum.. no. it was pretty bad in a lot of areas. I felt like I was living in a gulag."

Goon 1: "No. You are mistaken. This was one of the best Olympics ever."

Journalist: "No. It wasn't.." His voice trails off as several men move to stand very close behind him.

Goon 1: "It was one of best on record, yes?"

Journalist: "Aaaahh." Shifts nervously. "No. It wa-" Two large hands settle on his shoulders and two objects poke him in the back, pistol barrels.

Goon 1: "Repeat after me. 'The Olympics was one of the best on record.' This is the word of the Russian government. It was good. There were no problems at Sochi. Everything went fine as good caviar."

Journalist: swallowing hard, he repeats it.

Goon 1: "Good. Now repeat it again."

Journalist:  "But it's a lie! It was not one of the better ones."

Goon 1:  gestures with a finger and the two goons behind the journalist thumb back the hammers with a noticeable click. "'The Olympics was one of the best on record.' This is the word of the Russian government. It was good. There were no problems at Sochi. Everything went fine as good caviar." The man's eyes narrow slightly. "This is the truth as we say it is. Those who do not believe will be made to believe." Lifts a hard ham like fist under the reporter's nose.

Journalist: swallows hard and nods. "OK. Ok."

No offense to anyone, that's just the first thing that popped into my mind when I say Callie's post.

[Blythe]

Not being able to flush one's toilet paper down the toilet, to me, is not really a very pressing matter. There's a bin to put it in, so that's not really a problem. But being unable to use the tap water on one's face/skin? That's.....pretty rough to contemplate, particularly when the money spent to prepare Russia for the Olympics has topped $51 billion. Basic necessities like water and fully-constructed accommodations should have been a major priority.  :-\

[Mistyy]

I watched the opening ceremony and it was hands down one of the best I have ever seen.  I really loved how it began with the cyrillic alphabets and portraying the achievements of the nation. The timeline approach was really well done, even the part telling about the bolshevik revolution and the soviet union was well thought. These kind of things have always appealed to me and this one was really breathtaking. Honestly I am glad that Russia got these games, the history of the country is very interesting and gave a good base for the show.

[Iniquitous]

I'll say the opening ceremonies were nice. I'm still saying Russia effed up though since 51 billion has been spent over the past seven years and hotels were not completed, roads were either pot hole runs or muddy trenches, some hotels have no lobbies, no heat, rooms not ready, unable to use the water from the faucets, shoddy electric.

All the screw ups will be remembered and I'll bet Russia has a hell of a hard time ever getting another Olympics hosted there.

Meanwhile...this cracked me up.

[Neysha]

This cracks me up:



Well at least you can't get locked out of your bathroom.

[Nico]

This cracks me up:



Well at least you can't get locked out of your bathroom.

Wasn't this from a US athlete that got locked in the bathroom? I think I read that earlier.

[Neysha]

Wasn't this from a US athlete that got locked in the bathroom? I think I read that earlier.

A bobsledder.

Of course with bobsledders, everything is like cardboard to them. :p

[TheGlyphstone]

I was amused by this, but I guess the rest of the opening ceremony was okay?

[Iniquitous]

I was amused by this, but I guess the rest of the opening ceremony was okay?

Apparently someone fell when they came out but other than that it appeared to go off nicely. Of course the tweets over the circle not coming up with the rest has been tweeted about relentlessly with many many jokes about it being to afraid to "come out". And it was made into a tee shirt before the opening ceremonies were even done.

[JackWhite]

Lots of posts mentioned that it was the American ring that wasn't opening too.

[Oniya]

Not according to the Executive Committee (at least, not since 1951).

[JackWhite]

But before 1951 it was.

[Love And Submission]

Welcome to Russia. If you learn one thing  from  History ,  it's never come here. Seriously don't come here. Really? You don't trust me? You think it looks so cool on the TV? Go ask Napoleon or  Hitler or  Charles XII of Sweden.


I'm just saying maybe holding the Olympics in a country so...unejoyable that the Wehrmacht left wasn't the best idea the Committee could've come up with.

[kylie]

I'm just saying maybe holding the Olympics in a country so...unejoyable that the Wehrmacht left wasn't the best idea the Committee could've come up with.

       Talk about tasteless jokes.  They didn't bring winter clothes, their strategic orders kept sending them up and down the map, they massacred the Ukrainians who wanted to support them initially on the way in, and they got kicked the fuck out.  To say they simply up and "left" is beyond ridiculous.

       Sure they left most of Europe -- when they were forced to.  But are you really trying to say that the only good people are the ones the Nazis wanted to celebrate having most, or maybe the ones who were more complicit or less visibly opposed by and large to Nazi leadership?  Cause that's pretty much what it comes across as. 

[Love And Submission]

       Talk about tasteless jokes.  They didn't bring winter clothes, their strategic orders kept sending them up and down the map, they massacred the Ukrainians who wanted to support them initially on the way in, and they got kicked the fuck out.  To say they simply up and "left" is beyond ridiculous.

       Sure they left most of Europe -- when they were forced to.  But are you really trying to say that the only good people are the ones the Nazis wanted to celebrate having most, or maybe the ones who were more complicit or less visibly opposed by and large to Nazi leadership?  Cause that's pretty much what it comes across as.

No what I'm saying is Russia  has a terrible history . See: Their Human Rights Record , Their Gay Rights Record ,  The Katyn  Massacre ,  Bykivnia , Kurapaty , Butovo...Do you want me to keep going?

No I'm not saying the only good people are the ones the Nazis wanted to hold but I'm also not going to pretend Russia and Specifically Stalin's Russia were cool. They weren't. I don't know how to say without seeming like a douche but Russia is a bad country that's gotten better since the fall of communism but is still a bad country.

They're not  France. They're not Sweden. Both places the Winter Olympics could've been held. Instead the were held in a country that history has told us is not a nice place to visit.

[Oniya]

Minard's map might have been a good example without invoking the Wehrmacht.

[kylie]

         Yeah, the political leadership is chilly at best and ugly at worst.  But that has little direct relationship with numbers of people lost invading the place.  Yugoslavia and South Korea both have been hosts; try correlating that with effectiveness of military defense historically, and again with perceived openness and democratic measures (hint: South Korea is not exactly a democratic paradise when you look closely, even if it's nothing like the North).

          And it doesn't necessarily follow that political leadership being crude and suppressive to their own people, makes for a bad place to visit for the experience and cultural exchange.  Whether you think that helps the right people inside, is another question. 

[The Lovely Tsaritsa]

They're not  France. They're not Sweden. Both places the Winter Olympics could've been held. Instead the were held in a country that history has told us is not a nice place to visit.

How very insulting.  >:( Russia does nothing good, then?

[consortium11]

While I understand the point I think trying to compare organising a sporting/tourism event and well, warfare and invasions is always going to come across as pretty distasteful.

[TheGlyphstone]

While I understand the point I think trying to compare organising a sporting/tourism event and well, warfare and invasions is always going to come across as pretty distasteful.

Yeah, the people on the front lines in the warfare are less emotionally invested.
[/terriblejoke]

[Callie Del Noire]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26123444

Apparently the Bobsledders are having problems. Getting trapped in a bathroom, an elevator, and finding an open elevator shaft instead of an elevator. Having a bob sledder drop down a shaft could be a very very bad thing for the 'everything is okay' fable being pushed out by the Russians.

[Mistyy]

It's not really surprising that all the western media talks about are Russia's crimes but stay silent on the crimes that the British Empire has commited for example, didn't hear much about them when the olympics were in London. I remember my history books in high school that told about the Soviet Union. I think there wasn't a single positive thing said at any point, it was pure propaganda in my opinion, the whole country was painted as the manifestation of evil. I have really learned to change my ways of thinking and realized that propaganda isn't just one sided. I recently watched some of my grand father's old photos from the Soviet Union and there was this one with a lot of people on the other side of the road waving the Soviet flag and some people on the other side waving the national flag. I believe that this photo would have never made it into any western history book because it told that there were actually people that supported the Soviet Union. A lot of people in Russia think that people like Gorbachev were traitors who sold out their country. In my opinion, I am very glad that the games are in Russia.

[Iniquitous]

Uh....

You do realize that most of this thread is about how they blew 51 billion dollars over 7 years and still don't have all the hotels finished (and the ones that are finished have major issues) right?

Yes, we have issues with Russia's human rights violations but that isn't what this thread is about.  It's about how the media is telling the truth about the conditions in Sochi.

[Valthazar]

I think there wasn't a single positive thing said at any point, it was pure propaganda in my opinion, the whole country was painted as the manifestation of evil. I have really learned to change my ways of thinking and realized that propaganda isn't just one sided.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of propaganda surrounding these Olympic games, and a very political spin surrounding its presentation.  However, there is no denying that Russia has made a very weak presentation so far.  For the monetary investment that went into these games, I think we can agree that it was not efficiently used.

[TheGlyphstone]

The only 'crimes' I've seen any media reporting on is how Russia was bulldozing homes and turning families out into the streets with pittances for compensation, to make space for the Olympic structures. 90% of the coverage is just how Russia  is embarrassing itself with its under-preparedness, which it absolutely deserves.

[IStateYourName]

Agreed...I don't have anything for or against Russia, but the part of Russia involving in Sochi screwed the pooch with their widespread lack of preparedness for these Olympics. 

[ShadowFox89]

It's not really surprising that all the western media talks about are Russia's crimes but stay silent on the crimes that the British Empire has commited for example, didn't hear much about them when the olympics were in London. I remember my history books in high school that told about the Soviet Union. I think there wasn't a single positive thing said at any point, it was pure propaganda in my opinion, the whole country was painted as the manifestation of evil. I have really learned to change my ways of thinking and realized that propaganda isn't just one sided. I recently watched some of my grand father's old photos from the Soviet Union and there was this one with a lot of people on the other side of the road waving the Soviet flag and some people on the other side waving the national flag. I believe that this photo would have never made it into any western history book because it told that there were actually people that supported the Soviet Union. A lot of people in Russia think that people like Gorbachev were traitors who sold out their country. In my opinion, I am very glad that the games are in Russia.

It isn't about the evils that any country may or may not have had. It's about the country's leader touting the Olympics as the most expensive ever, but basic things like tap water in hotels being absent. Or elevators missing. Or bobsledders needing to punch themselves out of walls. Or pictures of on duty police officers of that country drinking and smoking, rather than doing their jobs.

It's about how much of a screwup this whole thing has been, and how it's been one thing after another with the Olympics. The fact that Putin has enacted laws that seem to be aimed just to anger other nations has nothing to do with it, but does add weight to the question of "what the fuck is going in?".

[Neysha]

There was coverage critical of the London Olympics.  Mostly about how inconvenienced Londoners were going to be by all of the restricted Olympic traffic and huge amounts of law enforcement and stationing SAM launchers on top of apartments. :D

Also... Russian Laundromats.



Or dirty luger feet...

[Mistyy]

Well it shouldn't really come as any kind of surprise that a lot of money has went somewhere it shouldn't but when they chose the host country they knew what they were getting into. Why I talked about the Russian history a bit is that it is where the conversation inevitably leads as the corruption is very deeply rooted in the country and isn't something that you can just fix in a few years. On the contrary I watched the Finnish evening news yesterday and some athletes(don't remember what sport) said that they had best accommodations they had ever had. But yes I never denied the problems, just trying to shed some light.

I believe that this same thing is going to happen in Rio, also a lot of thieving when people keep their phones in their back pockete etc, and this is going to come as 'surprise' again.

Anyways I don't really care for the olympics itself as most medals go the superpowers anyway because of large population, money, etc.

[Zakharra]

Well it shouldn't really come as any kind of surprise that a lot of money has went somewhere it shouldn't but when they chose the host country they knew what they were getting into. Why I talked about the Russian history a bit is that it is where the conversation inevitably leads as the corruption is very deeply rooted in the country and isn't something that you can just fix in a few years. On the contrary I watched the Finnish evening news yesterday and some athletes(don't remember what sport) said that they had best accommodations they had ever had. But yes I never denied the problems, just trying to shed some light.

I believe that this same thing is going to happen in Rio, also a lot of thieving when people keep their phones in their back pockete etc, and this is going to come as 'surprise' again.

Anyways I don't really care for the olympics itself as most medals go the superpowers anyway because of large population, money, etc.

The thing is, Russia has had seven years to get the games area and hotels and stuff ready. That it isn't is a blow against the Russians. Sure they have most of the main things working, but the little details are showing that Sochi really wasn't ready for the games. no running water, having to put used toilet paper in a basket beside the toilets, locked or missing elevators, locked doors.. With a price tag of $51 billion, things like that should be working.

You seem to think the superpower and the other First world nations do what? Buy their medals?  What does a large population have to do with the skill of the athlete?

[Kythia]

Large nations have a) more shots at the genetic lottery of producing someone who could be a skilled athlete b) a more developed infrastructure for spotting them and c)better facilities for training them.

[Callie Del Noire]

Let's put the amounts in perspective Mistyy. Sochi is the most expensive Winter Games ever. Would have been if they have come in at the 12 Billion mark that President Putin originally claimed it would. At 51 Billion, it is at LEAST as expensive as the last 10 winter games, which I find more likely than some claims that it is more than ALL the winter games combined (which would go back to 1920).

Then there is the source of these funds. A large proportion of NORMAL Olympic construction comes from private investment whereas Sochi is largely from the Russian Government. There are just too many complaints for these to be 'isolated' incidents.

As for size/wealth versus medals.  Norway beats everyone in the Winter Olympics with the Soviet Union next, despite not being in them since 1988. 
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/02/winter-olympics-medal-count-sochi-all-time-facts/

[Valerian]

You know, that's something I've wondered about before -- exactly how much of an advantage it is to an Olympic hopeful to have been born in one of the larger, more industrialized nations.  And I found this interesting chart just now: http://www.medalspercapita.com/

It lists medals per capita for each country, for all the modern Olympic games.  I'm not much good at statistics, though it seems like it's pretty easy for the results to be skewed -- that is, all it takes is one outlier from someplace like Grenada to put that country at number one for medals per capita at the London Olympics, for example -- but it's still interesting to look at.  The U.S. won 104 medals in total at the 2012 games, but that only puts them at 49th in those rankings.

[Torch]

Anyways I don't really care for the olympics itself as most medals go the superpowers anyway because of large population, money, etc.

Yes, that would certainly explain all the track and field medals won by such largely populated superpowers as Jamaica, Grenada, US Virgin Islands and Kenya.  ::)

[Valthazar]

Yes, that would certainly explain all the track and field medals won by such largely populated superpowers as Jamaica, Grenada, US Virgin Islands and Kenya.  ::)

Also ironic that a country like India only ever gets a few medals, and lucky if it manages gold at all.

[Valerian]

Jamaica is in fact at tenth place in the medals per capita for all modern Olympic games combined, while India is languishing at 139th.

Yes, I'm having way too much fun with this chart.  ::)

[consortium11]

You know, that's something I've wondered about before -- exactly how much of an advantage it is to an Olympic hopeful to have been born in one of the larger, more industrialized nations.

It's largely dependent on the sport in question.

Long distance runner? You're probably better off being born in Kenya than any of the large industrialized nations (most of whom send their best athletes in those disciplines to train in Kenya with Kenyans anyway).

Swimmer? Kenya might not exactly be the best option. Equestrian... even less likely.

To talk about a sport I actually know a fair amount about, for a prospective Olympic boxer there are a whole host of countries that would better prepare an athlete than the US, even outside of the obvious example of Cuba.

As a general rule an Olympic hopeful from a major industrialised nation is going to have better chances than one not from one; there are a wider variety of sports avaliable and greater access to funding. But depending on the sport in question you'll often find at least one (if not more) smaller, less wealthy countries that have, for lack of a better term, specialised in a given discipline and may well lead the world in it.

[Mistyy]

The thing is, Russia has had seven years to get the games area and hotels and stuff ready. That it isn't is a blow against the Russians. Sure they have most of the main things working, but the little details are showing that Sochi really wasn't ready for the games. no running water, having to put used toilet paper in a basket beside the toilets, locked or missing elevators, locked doors.. With a price tag of $51 billion, things like that should be working.

You seem to think the superpower and the other First world nations do what? Buy their medals?  What does a large population have to do with the skill of the athlete?

Well factors like wealth of the country, population and status in the world have very much to do with which country gets the most medals. If you see this chart you will immediately notice that the top 5 countries for example are/were very wealthy and have pretty large population. Of course there are countries like Norway that do very well in winter olympics or certain sports but when you look at the big picture they don't really matter. You can also notice that now when China's position in the world is strengthened and they have acquired more wealth, their results have improved tremendously. In 2008 they even beat the USA in gold medals and in 2012 they still did very well coming second. So yes those factors affect very much.

[ShadowFox89]

 All I gotta share, is: https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/432619187614547968/photo/1

[Chris Brady]

All I gotta share, is: https://twitter.com/bruce_arthur/status/432619187614547968/photo/1

Stay classy, Russia.

[TheGlyphstone]

They have to pay off that 51 billion somehow...

[Neysha]

I love China's approach to Olympic athletics in some regards by setting up those massive farming systems to find athletes and throwing them into state financed sports academies in lieu of a more Western school extra-curricular athletics system. It's like some athletic version of Toddlers in Tiaras/Hunger Games. But I shouldn't knock it, the results kinda speak for themselves, they're going to be passing up the Americans again and again in these medal runs in the future, it's simply inevitable.

[gaggedLouise]

Two of the Pussy Riot girls were whipped and face slapped after getting knocked to the ground by Putin's cohorts (or shall we say, the special security staff). Grisly stuff. The value in political visibility from suffering such an act there and now can barely even be measured in millions of rubels.

[TaintedAndDelish]

I was hesitant about posting this until Lou mentioned it.

I'm not sure which is worse for them, being insulted by a rebellious band that will only be silenced by force, or looking like a bunch of pussies for using force against a bunch of unarmed musicians. In all fairness, I'm not sure there was a winning move for the Russian government/police here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrkM84jsx1w

[Valthazar]

I agree with the others above.  But in all fairness, illegally protesting in the US would also result in force being used, even if you are unarmed.  Seems like the authorities there really overdid it though.

[Neysha]

I agree with the others above.  But in all fairness, illegally protesting in the US would also result in force being used, even if you are unarmed.  Seems like the authorities there really overdid it though.

Those look like those Cossacks that the Russians are employing as reserve law enforcement in Moscow and in Sochi for the Winter Games. Only Cossacks have such snazzy hats and carry around horsewhips instead of batons when on patrol. So overdoing it is probably their modus operandi.

I mean... it used to be even worse....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ympPmSWYCE

[gaggedLouise]

I agree with the others above.  But in all fairness, illegally protesting in the US would also result in force being used, even if you are unarmed.  Seems like the authorities there really overdid it though.

Agree, and the cossacks did overplay their hand a bit. Plus, it takes really strong courage and resolve to put yourself in a situation where you know you might have that kind of force used against you - even if you know you want it on camera for the world to see.

Lenin, no less, once said - this was in 1905, many years before be took over power:  "Get them /the people, the opposition/ onto the street. Who has been whipped is worth twice as much as those who haven't yet been whipped", and he was thinking of military guards (or cossacks) who would actually whip crowds of unarmed demonstrators from the height of their horses, or even shoot at them, shoot to kill.

I like that quote, it has a kind of hardnosed understanding of the cost of rousing people to change about it. (Lenin was no democrat, but then there were many people in Russia back then who didn't have to be communists to feel the weight of oppression from the Tsar and *his* henchmen)

[Neysha]

It's weird, I remember reading RT articles a year ago and they stated the Cossacks wouldn't have any law enforcement or police powers.

I guess free citizens of Russia are allowed the freedom to whip whomever they want in public. Or maybe that's a special legal status given to Cossacks like Jews and Christians in some Muslim countries are exempt from various religious laws.

[Zakharra]

 Are they really cossacks? Like the raider cossacks of yore?

[gaggedLouise]

http://en.wikipedia.org/Knout

*shudders*

Actually, they don't really use those anymore...